2nd reworked Ostheer concept - by Wordsmith

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

One thing i cant understand;
there are so MUCH german anti air vehicles
and you guys chose for the most times one
of the untypical eastern front weapon systems...
The Kugelblitz perhaps fought at the Battle of
Berlin, a very "representing battle" for the
hole eastern front...

I cant relay understand this any longer...

[wordsmith]

there are so MUCH german anti air vehicles
and you guys chose for the most times one
of the untypical eastern front weapon systems...

I'm aware of fact that Kugelblitz was not widely used but I have my reasons why I put it into my concept:

- it is nice and advanced design and it was was used at least at end of war
- I didn't want to use already used by Wehr&PE Ostwind and Wirbelwind
- Flakpanzer38t and Moebelwagen were obsolete and doesn't fit as in my Tier3 building I wanted to include 1944-45 units
- T34 Flakvierling was used maybe even less than Kugelblitz but was my second choice, I prefer Kugel
- I didn't want to include some more Halftrack AA units, as I have already one in my concept

Maybe I'm missing something but which AA vehicles did you mean? Any tip on the mobile Flak unit?... if considered my above writen remarks.

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Well. I think tier 3 doesnt mean automaticaly "heavy late war units" So i cant see any reason why a Flakpanzer 38 t Gepard couldnt appear in a tier 3 building.

And anti air units;
well. Think there are some nice half tracks for this
job  I like half tracks 

But one point; when u had already a anti air gun at your concept why do u add a second weapon for this job?
I mean where are the reason for build this unit and not the other one and the other way around?
I think it is absolutly enough when u had one weapon for each battle mission ( anti tank, main tank, anti air, artillery, and so on^^ ).

[wordsmith]

Well. I think tier 3 doesnt mean automaticaly "heavy late war units" So i cant see any reason why a Flakpanzer 38 t Gepard couldnt appear in a tier 3 building.

well it is because I wanted to have at least some global meaning of my Tier buildings like timeline of some sort, so Tier 1 represents the first war years and last Tier3 represents the last years of war. No other reason just tried to sort the tiers logic like time went.

But one point; when u had already a anti air gun at your concept why do u add a second weapon for this job?
I mean where are the reason for build this unit and not the other one and the other way around?

Ok now I see that you didn't read my concept through because Sdkfz.251/17 "Flak38" is available only with "Emergency supply yard" building which is mutually exclusive with "Specialist training facility". This means if some player builds a second one - STF then it will be not possible to make that upgrade (just other 81mm mortar upgr). Besides Kugelblitz should be tougher and more powerfull than Sdkfz251 halftrack.

The reason for those 2 buildings is to force the player to make a strategic decision which units/game style will be needed. It is similar to US when player can build Barracks or Weapons support center, but for Ostheer there is one only rule in my concept. As all strategic decisions also this one should be with considering all risks and pros/cons of both buildings - or go just straight for Tier2.

I think having several options could be fun to play and for opponent could be also some enigma to think what could be used against him because several options would be possible and he could gain/loose advantage if choose wrong. Diversity of options could be fun to play.

[Cranialwizard]

The Best Ostheer Suggestion Seen.

Honestly, I've looked over a bunch of the others, and this one seems easy to manipulate with and test out. It also seems that they can counter the Soviets well.

I like how your EXP system is planned.

For doctrines, I really liked the April Fools joke posted on the updates 

But if the Modder's decided to pick this system and do away with their doctrine, I'd be all in on this one. It's very powerful and is a +3 for ANY army.

[wordsmith]

Thank you man! I enjoyed it. I also created a Ostheer vs Red Army chart if someone is interested:





I made it just for fun creating it, if there are some innacuracies please write me a comment and I will correct it. After all it is almost 3am and I have to get up to work in morning

[Cranialwizard]

I'm actually making my own suggestion, it's becoming very indepth and difficult, and I haven't even started the doctrines XD

But I'll pull through. There will be two diffrent infantry buildings, German for more elite and Foreign for basic starting units

[wordsmith]

Ok, as I promised to one friend I'm putting the source files for graphics here. Feel free to use it to make your own graphics. I think it could help you to present your Ostheer or Strategy&Tactics ideas. Files are in MS Powerpoint 2007 ".pptx" because it is so easy to use and using this I could export graphics as ".png" or ".jpg" images.

PS: and thanks to Venoxxis who inspired me with his graphics to do this

[Venoxxis]

I always wanted to say several times already that im pretty impressed from your work here.

These images are great man, keep up the good work with your concept.


and really no problem about the inspiration

[cephalos]

I don't know if it was mentioned, but I wonder how do you imagine playing against Indirect Approach Strategy. I mean this ability, I can't remember name, for 300 mp giving player +50 mun and fuel in one minute time should be replaced or finish on the end of tree. It's too powerful for the first minutes of game.

[wordsmith]

@Venoxxis: thanks man I'm impressed with your work too.

I don't know if it was mentioned, but I wonder how do you imagine playing against Indirect Approach Strategy. I mean this ability, I can't remember name, for 300 mp giving player +50 mun and fuel in one minute time should be replaced or finish on the end of tree. It's too powerful for the first minutes of game.

All things like costs and abilities could be tuned, it is not written in the stone but as speaking about first minutes of play you have to consider the fact that 300MP equals one unit which could be reason to loose whole game. Of course I'm considering just 1vs1 500VP automatch type games, and yes I agree that during 2vs2 or more player matches it could be OP. As I said - this could be tuned, important is the overall idea of this doctrine: manipulate resources and play economy instead of playing tactical finesse.

And small detail, ability doesn't "give" you 50 Ammo&Fuel but increases Fuel and Ammo income. Would it be ok if it increases the income f.e. +30Ammo/min. and +20Fuel/min.?

[Ghost]

one of the concepts i really enjoyed to read because it's clear and detailed and has some nice pictures not just text  good work, keep it up!

1st tank:
[...]Brit: 15+30+35+70 = 150 (Cromwell)
[...]

should be: Brit: 15+30+35+65+70 = 215 (Cromwell)
65 fuel for the armor command truck

and first wehrmacht tank would be stugIV
Wehrmacht: 35+50+35+50 = 170 (StugIV)

[wordsmith]

should be: Brit: 15+30+35+65+70 = 215 (Cromwell)
65 fuel for the armor command truck

and first wehrmacht tank would be stugIV
Wehrmacht: 35+50+35+50 = 170 (StugIV)

Thank you! Noted and corrected. Now you can see that I do not play Brit much and if yes I do not build Armor Command Truck and just stick to lower Tiers. And StugIV I guess I meant tank with turret but I put also Stug there for the comparison.

Heh regarding graphics it was fun to do it. That is why I posted those source .ppt files, so other could make something similar. It is better to read the ideas or concepts with some pics. Now I'm working on something other with nice graphics but it will be posted in off-topic kinda surprise, but will take me some time...

[Cranialwizard]

Is there another way or program I can access these with? I don't have PPT

[wordsmith]

Ok try this one, I saved it as an older version in ".ppt" format. These can be open for example with OpenOffice:

http://www.openoffice.org/

which is free to download, use "Open Office Impress" for opening Powerpoint presentations. I tried it and it works but you need this version of source files ".ppt" not from my post before, those were ".pptx".