Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => General Discussion => Topic started by: Campaigner on October 11, 2014, 04:38:00 PM
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I strongly feel that soviets are way easier to play than any other faction in the game.
I believe that the main reasons for that are twofold.
- Fewer necessary buildings
- All important infantry in the Mustering Tent (Commissar, Strelky and Guards)
You will almost always build the Mustering Tent (like US builds barracks), Armory and either the Tank Hall or Weapon Support Center so you will get Strelky which are solid, versatile units.
Ostheer has to go tier 3 or choose Elite doctrine to get a solid infantryunit.
Wehrmacht have to to tier 2 or choose Blitzkrieg doctrine to get their solid, versatile infantry.
US got it easy with their Rifles, the most versatile infantryunit in the GAME! They also get strong infantry in two out of three doctrines so they're covered.
The other two factions are not invited.
Strelky also got three possible upgrades (longrange, shortrange and AT) so they're always useful. Think Navals also were a safe choice.
So soviets with their versatility seem to always be able to answer.
Modern Combat have the same problem. US have three buildings, PLA have four (excluding HQ) so it's harder to get the correct units out with PLA since you have to spend so damn much on buildings.
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You yourself already noticed that US also get access to their main infantry unit pretty early and do not need other infantry apart from them. Versatiliby isn't always a good thing. You need to know which unit types you want to focus on, else you'll get destroyed by concentrated enemy forces.
Also, I really doubt that soviets are easier to play than any other faction in the game. Afaik USA are way more easy to pickup and play than Soviets. Because you need to plan ahead as Soviet to win. You can't just spam conscripts and tech randomly and expect to win the game single-handedly.
While as USA you can just spam riflemen, get all their upgrades and wreck the enemy. As soviet you'll need a lot more to win. Support weapons, light tanks, heavy tanks, support infantry, main infantry + all their upgrades make soviets more challenging to play. At least that's my personal opinion on this matter.
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The main reason why Soviets seem easier to play is because they have been out a lot longer than the OH has. People mostly know how to play Soviets. The players were able to see SU change over the years and adapt accordingly. Also, saying that Landsers aren't a valuable unit is a mistake from your part. They are just like rifles in role, get them to vet up, tech mp40s and you win every engagement really.
Now, I am not saying that what we have now is perfect, but we are dealing with most concerns on the forum so you are likely to see some changes about them. Keep posting your concerns and we will see what we can do with them.
Peace!
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The main reason why Soviets seem easier to play is because they have been out a lot longer than the OH has. People mostly know how to play Soviets. The players were able to see SU change over the years and adapt accordingly. Also, saying that Landsers aren't a valuable unit is a mistake from your part. They are just like rifles in role, get them to vet up, tech mp40s and you win every engagement really.
Now, I am not saying that what we have now is perfect, but we are dealing with most concerns on the forum so you are likely to see some changes about them. Keep posting your concerns and we will see what we can do with them.
Peace!
Maybe true, but soviets were changed massively in the course of the last months, and nowadays they play pretty differently from, let's say... 1.600 or 1.700. Ofc, Ostheer was changed with 2.300, tho.
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Put Expert CPU OST and SOVIETs and see who wins
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Put Expert CPU OST and SOVIETs and see who wins
But AI vs AI battles arent indicators for faction design or balance. This is more or less an AI coding problem.
So this is an useless argument.
And for Ostheer;
Sure. Ostheer has 4 tier building. But in a good and planned game u wont need all 4 of them. In most situations u will build Tier I or II and try to get Tier III. Okay. There could be situations where u need backteching but it wont happend too often i think.
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You yourself already noticed that US also get access to their main infantry unit pretty early and do not need other infantry apart from them. Versatility isn't always a good thing. You need to know which unit types you want to focus on, else you'll get destroyed by concentrated enemy forces.
They may not need other infantry but it's definitely good to have.
You mean focusing on as in getting them and getting their upgrade in the armory ? That I support but about versatility I thought about giving units new roles like grenades, AT, longrange and shortrange improved firepower. The Strelky being the strongest example I can think about with its three individual upgrades.
Also, I really doubt that soviets are easier to play than any other faction in the game. Afaik USA are way more easy to pickup and play than Soviets. Because you need to plan ahead as Soviet to win. You can't just spam conscripts and tech randomly and expect to win the game single-handedly.
Actually spamming conscripts and getting them Full Rifles seems to be a key strategy for the AI. Gives your crappy cappers good fighting power. They outrange Landsers with those....
While as USA you can just spam riflemen, get all their upgrades and wreck the enemy. As soviet you'll need a lot more to win. Support weapons, light tanks, heavy tanks, support infantry, main infantry + all their upgrades make soviets more challenging to play. At least that's my personal opinion on this matter.
OK, you should know the US rifles thing is false. Getting all those upgrades immediately gives you great power but a dedicated counter like Pumas/Armored Cars/whatever Ostheer has shuts it down HARD!
I can agree that soviets require a bit more planning than US. If they were to fight eachother we could see it clearly :D
Also, saying that Landsers aren't a valuable unit is a mistake from your part. They are just like rifles in role, get them to vet up, tech mp40s and you win every engagement really.
I was focusing on the main infantry. But do you mean that MP40 Landsers beat other early upgraded infantry ?
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Actually, Landsers scale very bad into the game even with Mp40s unless you have very good vet (vet3 to ace). That is why you have panserfusiliers later game.
Riflemen with Bars are much better as a role as main infantry as their bars are superior in every way except maybe for close range and their versatile upgrades and vet/capping power make them very powerful too while vet still being easier to obtain. You can try to charge them rifles with the mp40 landsers but the outcome wont be much different than when you have volks grenadiers with mp40s charge rifles with bars. Mp40 is only good vs conscripts since they got pretty bad dps allowing you to surivive the charge unlike other factions and their main infantry (BAR rifle, bren tommies, strelky with ppsh)
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That's why Ostheer has artillery and grenades in t1. First lower enemy health with artillery, then charge and force them out of cover with grenades. Also, snipers incase you need to fight vs. guards.
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Don't forget that they will also do quite well against unupgraded Strelky. Strelky are much more expensive than Landsers are so it's quite a nice trade imo. The pzb39 might be underperforming due to lack of range. We might also revisit the mp40. Probably not though. Darc and I think it's fine.
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Yes considering it is only 30 munitions to upgrade but the problem i see is that it is very similiar to the upgrade of Volks Mp40s. It is an upgrade early on, but a downgrade later on. In VCOH ,very rarely do you see someone upgrade volks with the MP40s simply since they scale too worse later game. Yes vs unupgraded rifles, cons and strelky (even rangers) they are good but once they get their own respected upgrades it is useless and your better off having the original rifles instead since charging wont be an option anymore
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Actually, the mp40 from Landsers are much better than Volks mp 40 (mainly due to having better modifiers while moving, and offensively oriented veterancy). Calling it a downgrade isn't really true. Against more powerful Soviet infantry they need to be supported of course. That's the combined arms concept like it is behind all axis armies. Be it Bombardiers, mgs, Kampfkommandant, Mortars or other artillery.
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I agree that the Soviets are easier to play (i mean not easier to win)
Its the same like vCoH, with the Soviets you have more Soldiers and you didnt have to watch out like the OH Player has to.
But a game like EF (and CoH) needs one "easy Faction" and one Faction which ismore difficult to play.
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The soviets are easier to play for beginners while the Ostheer may be troubling for beginners due to the variety of Teching needed to be done. Just like How USA is easier to play than the Panzer elite with its set of buildings. The ostheer player needs to decide the POOLS and their TECH CHOICE, while soviet union usually will end up with all 4 buildings put up without question in almost every game. Therefore the OST needs more planning and risk taking in order to succeed.
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The game is way more complex than just building t1,t2,t3... I just don't get how People could possibly think how soviets are easier to play than PE, USA or Ostheer... oO
Ostheer does fine by building a few Landsers/Sturmpios and mob up the map. You don't even Need to tech the pools early on, you can wait into the midgame.
Soviets require to take priorities in capping, and to decide where to utilize cover, how many conscripts you Need to secure your territory so you can engage the Ostheer without all your troops getting massacred. Also, when to tech Strelky, how many Strelky. Getting upgrades for the Units. And so on. That's way at least on par with Wehrmacht, or even a bit more complex.
If you don't know what you're doing you'll get stomped when you're playing soviets.
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If you don't know what you're doing you'll get stomped when you're playing soviets.
Same with EVERY other Faction 8)
Personally i think Soviets are a (little) bit smarter to play.
Maybe its why you have Cons (a little bit simmilar to Rifle; can throw Grenades, have AT and so on)
And i agree with 132 :
When Playing Soviets you know which Building includes what Unit (simmilar to US).
For Example the Ostheer T3 has Inf; Tanks AT and Support Weapon (HT) While the Soviets have a Tank Hall , one Infantry Tent and one support Weapon Tent (almost like US)