Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Suggestions => Topic started by: Aouch on November 14, 2009, 12:23:21 PM
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The topic says it all, it's yet another Ostheer proposal! (Hell, that's nearly a rhyme! :P)
This concept is more or less based on Lord Rommel's (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=925.0) with some changes and adds.
You can say it's a combination of the best single ideas I've seen, resulting in a Red Army/Commonwealth-Mix with German units.
The Ostheer
Concept
As already mentioned you can compare this Ostheer with the Commonwealth and Red Army. There're various reasons to do so, to mention just a few, e.g. the OH doesn't have any HMG but instead a better mortar, furthermore no global veterancy, tough infantry (without mobility-penalty!) and effective field artillery in form of the LeFH 18. It's also worth to mention their mobile field-HQ-truck.
In return, the OH can't use all of their units at the same time but rather have to concentrate on a special type (→ Unit pools).
Unit pools
Most base structures of the Ostheer can't produce units until they're "upgraded" with one unit pool. In order to do so, you've to invest resources and time in the appropiate upgrade.
There're two unit pools for each of those buildings.
The building upgrade can allways be changed (assumed you've enough resources), however only one unit pool can be used at the same time.
Veterancy
(Based on Herostrato's veterancy suggestion (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=1207.0).)
Note: Not all OH-units are able to gain veterancy!
Ostheer-Veterancy doesn't increase the HP or accuracy of the unit but rather allowing the player to choose an upgrade resulting in making the unit "stronger" but in a more special way.
Therefore, veterancy allows the player to indiviual upgrade his battle-hardened unit.
Both infantry and tanks can achieve a max of three states of veterancy. The infantry-veterancy differs from unit to unit while tanks all share the same veterancy-type:
(Tanks which can gain veterancy are: PzKpfW. III, StuG III, PzKpfW. IV, JgdPz. IV, "Panther", "Tiger", "Elefant" and "Brummbär")
- Vet I - Tank Commander (Increases sight. OH tanks don't have a turret-top-MG, except StuG III.)
- Vet II - "Use Nebelkerzen" (Foggrenades are fired upon the tank) OR "Max Speed" (Tank drives noticeable faster for a short period of time.)
- Vet III - Sideskirts ("Elefant": Hull-MG, "Tiger": "Selfrepair") OR "Stationary Firebase" (driver helps reloading the main gun, resulting in a higher RoF but the tank is immobilized)
Reward Units
The Ostheer also offers Reward Units like the vCoH-factions. They're unlocked by successfully completing the campaigns.
- LT vz 38 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_38%28t%29) - (Replaces PzKpfW. III) This czech tank was after the invasion of Czechoslovakia adopted by the German Army under the desination "PzKpfW. 38(t)" and also given to its eastern allies like Romania and Bulgaria. [300mp 45f 6p] X (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=233281)
- JgdPz. IV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdpanzer_IV) - (Replaces PzKpfW. IV) Effective tank-destroyer based on the Panzer IV and armed with the 7.5 cm PaK 39 L/48. [350mp 80f 8p] ✔ (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=232125)
- StuPz. IV "Brummbär" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brummb%C3%A4r) - (Replaces leFH 18 18/40) Armored artillery unit with short range. Capable to penetrate armour to a certain extend. [500mp 75f 10p] ✔ (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=232125)
Captured weapons - Beutewaffen
The Ostheer isn't able to use heavy weapons of the Red Army or recrew own equipment.
Maybe later in the war, when the Oberkommando has figured out how to pick them up, German soldiers will be able to use the soviet crap to defeat the communists with their own weapons. (Meaning that as long as the Developers haven't fixed the picking-up and recrewing bug for new factions, the Ostheer can't do so.)
Artillery tractor - Artillerieschlepper
Heavy cannons (FlaK C/36, PaK 40, LeFH 18) of the Ostheer can be attached to artillery tractors (RSO, SdKfz. 251). They're now being carried by the tractors and therefore quicker to move.
Once uncuppled, the guns are ready for combat.
Sectorprotection - Sektorensicherung
The Ostheer secures resources by dominance: The more soldiers are in a territory, the more resources will be produced. Of course there is a limit, due to balance-reasons.
This is mainly a tribute to the Partisans, because it was easier to sabotage the supply-lines when the Germans weren't represented in this place.
Starting unit
Since the Wehrmacht rolled up large parts of weastern USSR in the first days of war, this "Blitzkrieg"-strategy is also represented in my concept.
Therefore, the Ostheer starts with a Landserzug. This unit is powerfull (→ Vet 2 Grens!), however, this strong start is followed by a stage, where the OH is very vulnerable due to high MP and fuel costs for further units.
Units & Buildings
HQ of the Ostheer
UNITS:
- Pioneers - 4 soldiers armed with 4x Kar98k. Abilities: Plant bursting charge (needs upgrade "Expert Pioneers"), Detect mine (needs upgrade "Expert Pioneers"), Repair. [240mp 4p] ✔
Can build:
- Mainstructures (Inf Camp → Support Camp → Heavy Camp)
- Sandbags
- Barbed wire
- Czech hedgehog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_hedgehog)
- Kübelwagen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_K%C3%BCbelwagen) - Fast recon vehicle. Unarmed. [220mp 2p] ✔ (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=223969)
- Raupenschlepper Ost (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raupenschlepper,_Ost) - The RSO can carry up to 6 soldiers / 1 squad. [200mp 2p] X
- Mobile HQ - This SdKfz. 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sd.Kfz._11) carries all stuff with it, to build up a forward support base. Ability: Build up (Similiar to the British HQ-Trucks. When built up, it can reinforce soldiers and repair vehicles within a certain range around the SdKfz.) / Mobilize (Break down the forward camp. The halftrack is now movable.) [350mp 4p] ✔ (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=223969)
UPGRADES:
- Expert Pioneers - Pioneers are upgraded with Frankfurt 42 Mine Detector and also have the ability to plant charges to destroy bridges and other structures. [100m]
- Armed Reconnaisance - Kübelwagen are outfitted with a MG34 machine gun. [100m]
- Men against Tanks! - Unlocks ability "Fire Panzerfaust". [150m]
- Medic Center - The HQ and the Mobile HQ are now able to heal nearby infantry units. [200m]
Infantry Camp
UNITS:
- Landserzug - (Grenadier squad) 6 soldiers armed with 6x Kar98k. Strong and deadly standard-infantry but more expensive than WH or PE inf.
Ability: Fire Panzerfaust (needs upgrade "Men against Tanks!"). [400mp 6p] ✔
Veterancy:
- Vet I - "Throw grenade" OR "Throw Brandflasche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_cocktail)" (vs tanks, chance to destroy the engine)
- Vet II - Feldwebel (One man is replaced by a Feldwebel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feldwebel) armed with a MP40, who influences the battleperformance.)
- Vet III - MG34 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG34) OR FmW35 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flammenwerfer_35)
- Mörser-Trupp - 4 soldiers armed with 1x 12cm GrW42 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granatwerfer_42), 2x Kar98k. [375mp 4p] ✔
Veterancy:
- Vet I - "Fire smoke-grenade" OR "Fire incendiary round"
- Vet II - Recon Officer (Call in one soldier armed with Kar98k. Abilities: Camouflage, Sniper Shot)
- Vet III - "Extented range" (mortar range increased) OR MP40 (Kar98k are replaced by MPs, so the squad can defend its position)
Support Weapons Camp:
MOTOR POOL:
- SdKfz. 251 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SdKfz_251) - Troop-carrier armed with a MG42. Can transport up to 12 soldiers / 3 squads. [220mp 20f 4p] ✔
- PzKpfW. III Ausf. F (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_III) - Medium tank from the early stage of war armed with a 3.7cm KwK 36 L/46.5. Inferior to the russian T-34. [300mp 40f 6p] X (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=189.15)
GUN POOL:
- 7.5cm PaK 40 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_Pak_40) - 4 soldiers crew a PaK 40, the standard anti-tank gun used by the Wehrmacht. This cannon can destroy T34's and also penetrate most of the heavy soviet armor. (PaK 40 can't camouflage, but does higher damage than the PaK 38.)[350mp 20f 4p] X
- 2cm FlaK 38 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_cm_FlaK_30) - 4 soldiers armed with Kar98k and crew one FlaK L/65 C/38. Ability: Abprotzen (Crew directs gun into fireposition and thus is no longer able to move the gun, but its accuracy is clearly better) / Aufprotzen (Gun is now mobile). (The FlaK is able to fire during movement, but with low accuracy.) [300mp 20f 4p] X
Heavy Weapons Camp:
TANK POOL:
- PzKpfW. IV Ausf. H (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PzKpfw_IV) - Main battle-tank of the OH. Armed with the 7.5cm KwK 40 L/48. [420mp 70f 8p] ✔
- PzKpfW. V "Panther" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_V) - Propably the best medium tank of WWII! [600mp 100f 12p] ✔
ARTILLERY POOL:
- StuG III Ausf. G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StuG_III) - Most produced German "tank" of the war (→ lowpriced!). The 7.5cm StuK 40 L/48 is able to penetrate the armor of the feared soviet T-34. [350mp 50f 6p] X (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=229028)
- leFH 18 18/40 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeFH_18/40) - This 105mm howitzer is mounted on the carriage of the PaK 40. Crewed by 6 soldiers. Can only be moved by RSO and HT! Abilities: Smokegrenade (fires a salvo of smokegrenades), Direct Fire (the leFh18 fires directly on targets like a tank!). [500mp 75f 10p] X (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=233281)
Doctrins
Army Group North- Heeresgruppe Nord
Airforcemission - Luftwaffeneinsatz:
- Reconnaisance plane - A Fieseler Fi156 "Storch" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fieseler_Fi_156) flies over the selected area detecting enemy units in this territory. [1cp 50m]X
- Luftversorgung - An air supply plane Ju 52/3m (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ju52) drops two containers with ammunition, fuel and LMG34s.[2cp 200mp]
- StuKa Attack - A Ju 87 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ju87_Stuka) "Sturzkampfbomber" attack the targeted area/vehicle with a precision airstrike (one single heavy bomb). Very effective against enemy tanks and structures! [3cp 100m] X (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=232125)
Finnish Support Groups - Finnische Unterstützungskräfte
- German armament supply - Ability "Fire Panzerfaust" cost nothing for a certain amount of time. [1cp 100m]
- Finnish Jäger Troops - Call in a squad of 4 elite soldiers armed with 4x Suomi M/1931 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomi_M1931) SMGs. Ability: Fire Panzerfaust (needs upgrade "Men against Tanks!"). [3cp 400mp 4p] X
Veterancy:
- Vet I - "Throw grenade" OR "Throw Molotov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_cocktail)" (aka "Brandflasche" → AT!)
- Vet II - "Camouflage" (Similiar to the Stormtrooper's ability) OR "Sprint"
- Vet III - Lahti-Saloranta M/26 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti-Saloranta_M/26)
- Finnish tank battlegroup - Call in one BT-42 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT42) (finnish assault gun based on captured russian BT-7 tanks) and one StuG III. [3cp 800mp 16p] X
Army Group Centre - Heeresgruppe Mitte
Tank battle - Panzerschlacht:
- Focus on armoured combat! - All newly produced tanks have now already Vet I, but in exchange the "ARTILLERY POOL" and the "GUN POOL" are getting locked. [2cp]
- Panzergranate 40 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor-piercing_shot_and_shell#Armor-piercing_shot) - Adds ability to tanks: Load Panzergranate 40 - For a short period of time, the damage against tanks is increased dramaticly. ]2cp]
- Heavy tank destroyer - (Schwerer Panzerjäger) Call in a heavy tankdestroyer JgdPz. "Tiger" (P) "Elefant" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elefant). This tank is armed with teh 8.8cm StuK 43/1 L/71. Only one "Elefant" is allowed at the same time! [4cp 800mp 180f 14p] ✔ (http://www.moddb.com/mods/coheastern-front/images/elefant1#imagebox)
7th Panzer Division:
- Ghost Division - All tanks with Vet I are being camouflagged if not moving for a certain amount of time. [1cp 150m]
- Allways around! - Tanks camouflagged by the "Ghost Division"-ability (→ requires Vet I) can now also move, though not very fast, while hidden. [2cp 50m]
- PzKpfW. VI "Tiger" - Call in a heavy PzKpfW. VI "Tiger" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_VI). Only one "Tiger" is allowed at the same time! [4cp 900m 200f 14p] ✔
Army Group South- Heeresgruppe Süd
Fortress groups - Festungsverbände:
- Fortresstroups - ( Festungtruppen) All units behind green cover gain additional bonus (e.g. it's harder to suppress this unit etc.). [1cp]
- Resource-exploitation - (Rohstoffausbeutung) For a short periode of time more resources are produced. However, after the boost the resource-production is temporarily decreased. [2cp 200m]
- Entrenched positions - (Befestigte Stellungen) Pioneers are now able to build heavy defences:
- Trenches [2cp] ✔
- MG-nest (British MG-Nest with German decals) [2cp 250mp] ✔
- Anti-tank bunker (Small earth/wooden bunker with a 3.7cm PaK 36 "Heeresanklopfgerät" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3.7_cm_PaK_36).) [2cp 250mp] X (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=233281)
Eastern Satellites - Östliche Gefolgschaft:
- Knüppeldamm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corduroy_road) - All units move with maximum speed in landscape or on streets for a longer period of time. Only active in own territory! [1cp 150m]
- Croatian Volunteers - Infiltrate a squad of allied Croatian soldiers (like the FJ-infiltration). 6 soldiers armed with german and captured russian weaponry. [2cp 280mp 6p] X
- HiWis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiwi_%28volunteer%29) - The Croatian Volunteers are also excellent workers! They're now able to construct concrete emplacements and light defensives:
- Sandbags [2cp]
- Barbed wire [2cp]
- First-aid Bunker (Functions like the WH-Bunker with "Aid-Station"-upgrade. Player will receive a squad of Landsers after 6 casualties have been returned to the Bunker. Can be garrisoned.) [2cp 200mp 20f] ✔
- Ostturm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther_tank#Fortification) [2cp 350mp 20f 6p] ✔
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One problem: GERMAN Ostheer; no Toldi Tank or Chetniks.
And there are some point i dont understand.
- Why should i call in a Panzer 38 t at the Heeresgruppe Mitte? When i have enough EP to activate this unit i think that i will have already the possibility to build better tanks from the HQ of the Panzertruppen.
- Why do you change the recon tank Panzer II Ausf. L Luchs against the Panzer II Ausf. C.?
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I'll answer your questions quick:
One problem: GERMAN Ostheer; no Toldi Tank or Chetniks.
DEVs haven't really started working on the Ostheer, and some could imagine adding units from satellite states. So what's the problem? ;)
And there are some point i dont understand.
- Why should i call in a Panzer 38 t at the Heeresgruppe Mitte? When i have enough EP to activate this unit i think that i will have already the possibility to build better tanks from the HQ of the Panzertruppen.
Cause it's cheap. ;D No, I've really no idea why I've added this tank at the end of the doctrine-tree. ???
- Why do you change the recon tank Panzer II Ausf. L Luchs against the Panzer II Ausf. C.?
Marder II (SdKfz. 131, that with the PaK40, not the captured russian one) is based on the PzKpfW. C. Additionally, in one thread, I think it was BurroDiablo mentioned some good points why having the C-variant instead of the L-"Luchs".
Oh, and thx very much for your concept I copied! :)
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@Aouch:
why you use MY model? i never say: do what you like with this screen!
..so put them out, immeditaly! SDKFZ 11
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The majority of the models aren't even ours. We're quite capable of making our own, and I personally would feel much better if the work was our own.
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@MrScruff: Done, removed the links. Sorry. :-[
@BurroDiablo: I know that most of them aren't yours. I just added those links to give a reference how they could look like.
It's your mod and I'm just a little moron.
I've posted that concept to give you some ideas though I think you can do an Ostheer concept without the help of the community.
Sorry again for all the trouble I've caused. :-\
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Don't cry now... :P
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! Now this comes as a shock, I really thought most of
the models were yours to start with. Sigh.
Hmm, any chance to change the ISU152 from a JPanther
to an AP/AE slow StuH from hell? :) (More of an AVRE,
actually. Slow reload means it shouldn't it off accidentally)
(with a longer range) :D
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@ Loupblanc: What do you want with a ISU152?
If you haven't noticed yet, this thread is about the Ostheer.
So please stop talking about your freaking ISU.
I think your way of turning every thread into a discussion about the ISU 152 really annoys everybody.
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I agree, we have an ISU-152, go there and discuss it. We are here to discus Ostheer Proposal #02854.
Btw, thanks for the Yugoslav mention ;D
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Eh... Yugoslav mention. Well, I re-read it carefully, and
like it, mostly. How can I say no to anything that offers
finnish, etc, reward units? :) Grin. Solves problem artfully,
very nice! / But there's a little ouch :)
# Chetniks - Infiltrate a squad of allied Yoguslav partisans. (Chetniks - 4 partisans armed with german and captured russian weaponry. Lowpriced unit. Abilities: Camouflage (can't move while hiden!), Booby trap.) X
... Those guys fought AGAINST the germans. Not for.
They were enemies of the Partisans, although they also
found with them at times. Yugoslavia was a 4-5 way
civil war! Crotians helped the germans aplenty.
Chetniks were the royalists. Tito's (do this, do that)
troops were the partisans. Brits supported the Chetniks
at first, but they were afraid of doing something which
would entice german reprisals. Tito... well, he was
something allright. But making
... The Chetnik movement or the Chetniks (Serbian: Četnici, Cyrillic script: Четници) were a Serbian nationalist and royalist paramilitary organization operating in the Balkans before and during World Wars. They are mostly known for their participation in World War II, known officially as the Yugoslav Army in the Fatherland (Jugoslovenska vojska u otadžbini, Југословенска војска у отаџбини; JVUO, ЈВУО). In 1941, Yugoslavia was defeated by Germany and occupied by the Axis powers from 1941 to 1945. While initially formed as a resistance movement, they collaborated with the Axis occupation to an ever-increasing degree, eventually functioning by the end of the war as an Axis-supported militia.
Okay, I give up, I surrender... :)
Well, most of the COH stuff is circa 1943-1944+ anyhow.
It just breaks my heart to see them turned to Axis-
supported militia. I recall Italians were in on this as well,
wanting to use Chetniks as cannon fodder, and ready to
move in to disarm and finish off the chetniks as soon as
the fighting was over.
Yugoslavia was not a pretty place during WW2.
Post Merge: November 15, 2009, 11:57:02 PM
! Hey, look what I found! :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chetnik_center_Ontario.JPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chetnik_center_Ontario.JPG)
Methinks I'll be going there sometimes soon to take pics! ;)
Post Merge: November 16, 2009, 12:00:15 AM
The mission of our units is:
1. The struggle for the freedom of all of our people under the scepter of His Majesty, the King Peter II;
2. The creation of Greater Yugoslavia, and within it Greater Serbia, ethnically clean within the borders of Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Srem, Banat, and Bačka;
3. The struggle for the incorporation into our social structure of those non-liberated Slovenian territories under Italy and Germany (Trieste, Gorizia, Istria, and Carinthia), as well as Bulgaria and northern Albania with Shkodra;
4. The cleansing of all national minorities and anti-state elements from state territory;
5. The creation of direct common borders between Serbia and Montenegro, as well as Serbia and Slovenia by cleansing the Bosniak population from Sandžak, and the Bosniak and Croat populations from Bosnia and Herzegovina;
6. The punishment of all Croats and Bosniaks who have mercilessly destroyed our people in these tragic days;
7. The settlement of the areas cleansed of national minorities and anti-state elements by Serbs and Montenegrins (to be considered are poor, nationally patriotic, and honest families).
There may be no collaboration with the communists [Partisans], as they are fighting against the Dynasty and in favor of socialist revolution. Albanians, Bosniaks, and Ustaše [Croats] are to be treated in accordance with their merit for the horrendous crimes against our population, i.e. they are to be turned over to the People's Court. The Croats living on the territory under Italian occupation [Dalmatians] are to be treated based on their disposition at the given moment.
... A lot of references to ethnic cleansing here.
I... er... mm...
Meh?
It all depends on the date, I guess.
Chetniks changed sides more often than a wind
rose (thing on farm roof showing direction of wind).
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In late 2004, the National Assembly of Serbia passed a new law that equalized the rights of the former Chetnik members with those of the former Partisans, including the right to war pensions. Rights were granted on the basis that both were anti-fascist movements that fought occupiers, and this formulation has entered the law. The vote was 176 for, 24 against and 4 abstained. The Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS) of Slobodan Milošević was the one voting against the decision.
;) See! See! Both anti-fascist movements! ;)
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That post is waaaaay to long
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That post is waaaaay to long
All in favor of this say I "I,I,I............................I"
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"I,I,I............................I" !
Could've been replaced by various digestive sounds and
growling, hissing and spitting, but I felt the other approach
was more instructive. Kept adding to it as I went on
researching/reading on the topic. Sorry. I'm passionnate :D
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@ Loupblanc: You're right! However, I've just named them "Chetniks" because I've no clue who else they could be.
Any suggestions?
Oh, and please don't argue about as minor aspects of the concept as names. :)
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Well, if you're into yougoslavs, you have choice
between :
- Partisans : Communists. PURE anti-German.
- Chetniks : Royalists. Strong Slovakian racial purists.
Against germans, against communists, pro german...
Depends on the time of the day. Goal is anti german,
but anti communist won over time.
- Croatians : No idea, but they were strictly pro german.
Or pro murdering the rest of yugoslavs, so...
And, yes, I'm only talking about Yugoslavia, here :)
Hungarians and Rumanians had their own standing army :)
If you're thinking of it being pro-german, I doubt you'd
want to use Partisans :) As for Chetniks, depends on the
year. But since COH is 1943+ just about, it works fine.
Up to you :)
- As for Lord Rommel'ss assertion that OstHeer is pure
german, if he had his way, there would be 9,000 factions
all pure blooded germans ;)
3 German factions already. And Eastern front FOR ONCE
had allies. More countries participated than italy, germany
and Japan, for $##$!(#$. Finnish deserve their time in
the spotlight, as well as the other participants. Go check
wiki eastern front. Wow!
Got plenty of Axis posters to that effect, as well :)
So, by all means. YES! The primary equipment furnisher
was german. And german equipments is necessary. I
think the best is a German-Primary faction with other
country doctrine-based reinforcements and a
South/Center/North structure. Thoughts?
That way north can have finnish, etc
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Actually vCoH is 44-45, but EF is from 41-45, if not even earlier. ;)
As for the Chetniks: I'll let them in as Chetniks, as long as someone has a better suggestion. (Yes, this is a request! :D)
However, I don't like the idea of having foreign units in every doctrin.
Sure, the Germans had allies in the east, but they weren't really that important.
Also, I think my proposal has too much infantry units in it, adding even more would be senseless. Reskinned "Landsers"? Foreign inf units have to be special in order to make any sence at all, but special means most of the time special forces and for god's sake: Ostheer shouldn't have any commando/ranger/airborne/knights-cross. Their "special" unit are the Panzergrens.
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: Yea vCOH is 44-45
: EF ... 43-45 I'd say. Xcept for the KV2 (39/40)
(Make 'em once only can't be replaced, at least)
(Or replace with SU122, hehe)(Same function, not rare)
: Putting Chetniks in german army is about as logical as
putting american Priests in British army, wait! Er... Lol!
Xcept for 1 thing. They hates communists more than
Germans, if that was possible. So on the basis that
Partisans are in Soviet army (and there to stay?)
They are an excellent choice :)
: Too much infantry. Hmm, well, it's got merit of no new
models (although Finnish DID have some amusing tanks,
please add that in) :) And, as I explained in another post
about KV2/SU122, T34/KV1, T60/T70, 105mm Howi/Calli
Same function, different flavor?
: I don't see a problem with foreign units with EVERY
doctrine. Although you could make a pure aryan unit
for center, perhaps? :)
40% or so of manpower on Eastern Front Axis-wise was
non-german. So it stands to logic. Of course, they didn't
stick around when things started going too badly for
germans :p
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I think his goal is to...................make his posts so god damm long that it will make us fear him cause honestly dude you can put just "water mellon water mellon..........." all you want in the middle cause like only 3 people would notice ;D
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Hey,I can make 'em short too :)
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Hey,I can make 'em short too :)
go ahead and try for a weak I DARE YOU.
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Week
Sorry, I'm a grammar Wehr sometimes :P
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Same. I was looking at that 'weak' all evening long.
Just staring at it, and unable to reply... because... I was
at a crossroads in life :p
To cross it or not to cross it, pondered the duck...
That is the question. How week :)
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NEW CONCEPT (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?action=post;msg=13341;topic=1218.15;)
OLD CONCEPT:
Techtree: (http://reg.imageshack.us/img/iss3.png) (http://img525.imageshack.us/i/efohproposal2.tif/)
Doctrins: (http://reg.imageshack.us/img/iss3.png) (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/efohtechtree.tif/)
Not used units: (Propably for campaign-use)
- Mörser-Trupp - 4 soldiers armed with 1x 8cm GrW34 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_cm_Granatwerfer_34), 2x Kar98k. [375mp 4p] ✔
Veterancy:
- Vet 1 - "Build sandbag-position"
- Vet 2 - 2x MP40
- Vet 3 - "Fire smoke-grenade" OR "Fire incendiary round"
- 3.7cm PaK 36 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pak36) - 4 soldiers crew this light AT-gun named "Heeresanklopfgerät", due to its inability to penetrate thick armor. [275mp 4p] X (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=233281)
Veterancy:
- Vet 1 - "Focused firing" (breakes the tread to immobilize enemy vehicle)
- Vet 2 - 2x MP40
- Vet 3 - "Camouflage" OR "Load Stielgranate 41"
- SdKfz. 251 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SdKfz_251) - Troop-carrier armed with a MG34. Can transport 12 soldiers / 3 squads. [220mp 20f 4p] ✔
- SdKfz. 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sd.Kfz._11) - Halftrack used as troop-transporter, artillery tractor and also as chassis for the SdKfz. 251. Can carry 12 soldiers / 3 squads [200mp 2p] X
- Raupenschlepper Ost (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raupenschlepper,_Ost) - The RSO functions as a forward camp (→ mobile HQ). Ability: "Build up" (Similiar to British HQ-Trucks. When built up, RSO can reinforce soldiers and repair vehicles within a certain range around the SdKfz.) / "Mobilize" (Break down the forward camp. RSO is now movable.) [350mp 20f 4p] X
- Mobile HQ - This SdKfz. 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sd.Kfz._11) carries all stuff with it, to build up a forward support base. Ability: Build up (Similiar to the British HQ-Trucks. When built up, it can reinforce soldiers and repair vehicles within a certain range around the SdKfz.) / Mobilize (Break down the forward camp. The halftrack is now movable.) ✔ (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=223969)
- Kübelwagen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_K%C3%BCbelwagen) - Fast recon vehicle. Unarmed. [220mp 2p] ✔ (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=223969)
- Gebirgsjäger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebirgsj%C3%A4ger#Gebirgsj.C3.A4ger_in_World_War_II) - 4 elite soldiers armed with 4x Kar98k. Can later get either AT (2x PzB39) or AI (→ sniper) capabilities. Ability: "Use binocular". [400mp 4p] X
Veterancy:
- Vet 1 - "Throw grenade" OR "Fire Panzerfaust"
- Vet 2 - Feldwebel
- Vet 3 - 2x PzB39 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pzb_39) OR Zf. Kar98k (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kar98k#Accessories)
- MG-Trupp - 4 soldiers armed with 3x Kar98k, 1x HMG34. ✔
- Heavy Panzergrenadiere - 4 elite soldiers armed with 2x G43, 2x StG.44. Ability: Plant Hafthohlladung (needs upgrade "Men against Tanks!"). ✔
Veterancy:
- Vet I - Panzerschreck
- Vet II - "Grenadeshower" OR "Engineattack" (the engine of the attacked tank is destroyed with Panzerschreck)
- Vet III - "Sprint" OR "Heroic Charge" ("Heldenmut"; temporarily unsuppressable)
- PzKpfW. II Ausf. C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_II) - Light tank armed with a 2cm KwK 30 L/55 and a MG. X
- PzKpfW. III Ausf. J (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_III) - Improved Version of the PzKpfW. III. Comes with better armour and the 5cm KwK 38 L/42 X (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=189.15)
- SdKfz. 124 "Wespe" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wespe) - This self-propelled artillery unit has a 10.5 cm leFH 18M L/28 attached on PzKpfW. II. X
- PzKpfW. 38(t) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_38%28t%29) - (Replaces PzKpfW. III Ausf. E) This czech tank was after the invasion of Czechoslovakia adopted by the Wehrmacht and also given to its eastern allies like Romania and Bulgaria. [300mp 45f 6p] X (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=233281)
- JgdPz. 38(t) "Marder III" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marder_III#Marder_III.2C_Sd.Kfz._139) - (Replaces "Marder II") Effective tank-destroyer based on the Pz 38(t) and armed with a captured russian 7.62 cm PaK 36(r). [400mp 40f 8p] ✔ (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=1586.0)
- PzKpfW. VI "Tiger" - (Replaces "Elefant") Call in a heavy "Tiger"-tank. [800mp 180f 12p] ✔
- StuPz. IV "Brummbär" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brummb%C3%A4r) - (Replaces leFH 18 18/40) Armored artillery unit with short range. Capable to penetrate armour to a certain extend. [500mp 75f 10p] ✔ (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=232125)
- PzKpfW. IV Ausf. E (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_IV#Ausf._A_to_Ausf._F) - Main battle-tank of the OH. Armed with the short 7.5cm KwK 37 L/24 and therefore not really effective against heavy soviet armor. [400mp 80f 8p] ✔
OLD CONCEPT:
Techtree: (http://reg.imageshack.us/img/iss3.png) (http://img525.imageshack.us/i/efohproposal2.tif/)
Doctrins: (http://reg.imageshack.us/img/iss3.png) (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/efohtechtree.tif/)[/list][/list]
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Vet : Tanks : I like a lot!
Although I'd like V1/3 to have options?
Should have lots of options :)
Mechanics are already there, from PE vet system :)
Reward Units : Pz4Brummbar vs Wespe erm... depends.
As long as Wespe is the natural one. Brummbar is an oddball :)
Reminds me of another tank, though. Hmm. Brummbar should
be munition cost to fire (like the AVRE) it's a big puppy mortar.
Pz3 and Pz2... weak for 1943-1945 no?
Those are perfect for T26/1940 T34's but not T34/85,
SU85, IS2... Awesome for a campaign or a Barbarossa mod,
but? Thoughts?
I love the work you've put into this, though :)
I really really love the nod given to the other nationals :)
- Storch/Stuka rocks. Very good.
I THINK I've seen a Me109 denies planes to enemy thing?
I don't like that one. Too situational, no?
Potentially OP vs USA-Paratroopers/British as well.
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* Added a Vet 3 upgrade.
Vet 1 for tanks? Actually, every vet unit has one vet-state, where you can't chose. Puts some flavour in the "chose one out of two"-system. ;)
Mechanics are already there, from PE vet system :)
??? What?
For "Brummbär"/"Wespe": Mhhh, you've a point here...
PzKpfW. II/III are in for early tank support. In the late game, especially against soviet's heavy tanks, they'll be kinda useless.
However, due to the unit-pools, you can of course play a T2off/T3def-tactic which can be still effective against Brits/US because it mainly focuses on fast tank support (Pz II/III) with nice supporting-units (Marder for AT and "arty-wasp")
No ME109 in there. :D
Maybe you've meant the SdKfz. 7/1 with the quad-AA-gun. (Here I'm a bit unsure. Maybe replace it with an 88?)
However, I still need one unit each for T3neutral and "Finnish Support Groups"-doc.
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- Yea but tank vet 2 has no choice is what I meant :)
- PE Mechanics. I meant the vet system, you can choose
offensive or defensive vet upgrades. So the coding is already
there :) (Or something to work from, anyhow).
- Wespe is a weaker Priest (more fragile, same gun, no MG)
And Brummbar is a more powerful/slower reloading StuH42/105
(Although they're both on the Pz4 frame) I don't mind that
they have different functions. After all, the Pz4IF/Hotchkiss
PE swap is exactly that, isn't it? Same for Wehr Stug/Marder
2 matchup :) What strenghts/weaknesses do you propose
to make it work out? (Note that hotchkiss is fragile, where
the Pz4IF is resiliant).
Pz2/3 : Prove to me that there were still Pz2/3 running
around on battlefield then :) Puma has pretty much replaced
the role, no? I know Pz2/3 were on easterfront, but not
in 1943/1944-5. Were they?
'Arty-Wasp' eh? ;) Lol. 'Wespe' is fine ;)
ME109 air interdiction is.... meh. Don't want that :)
SDK7/1 with quad 20AA. Meh, it's a HT with 4x 20mm.
PE has Pz4 TANK with 4x20mm. No, no. I meant ME109
plane thing. If there was such a thing as air interdiction,
the allies would have it first :D
Sure, I don't mind a mobile 88 that needs to lock up
before firing. Easy to do, even. Lockup mechanics are
in-game (PE) just make unit unable to fire until then.
On a HT bed would be good. Just make it more vulnerable
in return (there HAS to be a price) :) Like... HT vulnerable
:)
Finnish Support Groups : Well, you said something about
BT-Short arty (StuH42/105 on BT frame) I love that one.
Finnish also had a StuG wannabe, and a Pz4 wannabe.
Use those. Especially the Pz4 wannabe. Tauren? Forgot
the name.
Doing some research... look what I found!!!! :D
WW2 "Tali-Ihantala 1944" Jatkosota" Combat Scenes - Eastern Front War Movie- Finland vs Soviet Union (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDX7IHP925U#noexternalembed-normal)
Cmon, admit you hate me now ;) *Grin!*
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- Of course tank vet 2 "has" a choice. ???
- @ PE Mechanics: Oh, that you've meant. I thought at PE repair pioneers, who don't exist... ;)
- "Wespe" is actually on the Pz 2 chasis. If you had read my proposal, you would know.
I don't mind that
they have different functions. After all, the Pz4IF/Hotchkiss
PE swap is exactly that, isn't it? Same for Wehr Stug/Marder
That's exactly how I wanted it to be. :) [/li]
[li]Pz 2/3: Puma is already part of WH, so we need something new. Also, the Pz 2 is the base for "Wespe" and "Marder" -> less work for the modeler. Same for Pz 3/StuG 3.
KV-2 was also more or less outphased in 1944. And do you really believe, the Panzerlehrdivision (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerlehrdivision) rolled with H39s against Shermans and Churchills? ;D
Last but not least, the Pz 2 is a nice recon-vehicle with decent AI/"anti-light-vehicles"-capabilities, whereas the Pz 3 can be a real pain in the *** for the allies, if it comes to early and tear their ALVs to shreds. :D[/li]
[li]88: Added it in.[/li]
[li]StuG-wannabe: Actually, the Finns used German StuG IIIs with finnish painting and emblems. Thus IT IS a StuG. ;)[/li]
[li]@ the movie: I saw StuG IIIs, a lot of captured T-34/76 and one looked like a KV-1.
The only "real" (though even those weren't) finnish tanks in WW2 were 18 BT-42 (-> russian BT-7s) and 6 L-62 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftv%C3%A4rnskanonvagn_L-62_Anti_II) (-> swedish/hungarian)[/li]
[/list]
Oh, concept updated (though not the topic-post, I'm still not sure).
-
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:World_War_II_Finnish_tanks (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:World_War_II_Finnish_tanks)
Nice ressource :) Still didn't find it. Tank called something
like a Taran, or Tauren. Grrrrr
- I meant Tank Vet1 has no choice, sorry :)
- Sorry about 'Mechanics' :) Hate misunderstandings ;)
- Er, you insult me. Lol. Of course I know Wespe is a Pz2
Oh, ok, I see what you mean. From a modeler's point of
view. As well, it would be fine for 'campaign' work :)
- KV2 was more than outdated. T35 even worse :)
- Why, yes, I'd roll a renaud hotchkiss against Church
and Sherm's any day of the week! - Not. Lol.
Local defense, perhaps. Not Panzer Lehr :p
- True :) (on Pz3)(Same as Pz2 above on campaign)
- StuG4 in-game right now :) Hehe, I know, I know.
- !! I thought the different paint and symbols made it
into a different tank-class! :) Meh, no, no, I meant
another tank altogether. Tauren? Taren? Grr. But, yea
in 1943-1944, StuG was their most numerous tank,
and it also helps the modders. So I'm fine with it.
Besides, skinners love to torture tank's appearances ;)
- The BT-42 was a decidedly finnish design. Soviets
used heavier tanks to mount big guns.
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Mhhh, I've updated my suggestion.
Got rid of Pz II and all vehicles based on it.
Now the whole proposal looks a lot more "tidied up". Also, there aren't anymore a sh*tload of tanks and infantry, so it fits more into the CoH-universe. ;D
For example there're only 6 standart-tanks, however, alltogether there're 12 different tanks, 4 heavy guns, 4 light vehicles and 7 inf-units.
10 of them is already in CoH or needs only some minor changes while 4 are nearly finished by someone out of the EF-Team and 5 are released or planed by non-EF-modders. :)
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I like the Pz2, myself. Make it a reward unit, or something.
But in 1943-1945 NO WAY is the little bugger 'standard' yknow?
But... I'd say that about the KV-2 also... ;)
(Should be replaced by SU122 and put into Reward Units) :)
Advantages of your latest post is, can be done faster :)
... But will it still have sufficient 'flavor' to be a new faction?
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The problem with Pz 2 is that I couldn't find a way to represent it via reward-system. (If you've a suggestion, plz post it!)
I first thought about adding the Pz 3 to tank-HQ and put the Pz 2 instead in T2OFF, but then I realized that it's needed there to give the Ostheer an early advantage over all the other factions.
Now, this leads to your warrantable objection, if this Ostheer-proposal is unique enough, to justify having it alongside with the old Axis-factions.
I think, yes, it is. It offers endless possible strats how to play it (which can be a real pain for balance-tester, though :D ).
For example, you want to focus on tank-combat. -> Go for T1 and instant T2OFF without spending time and resources at teching unit pools in T1! You can now crush the enemy with Pz 3s, while he in most cases he hasn't even a Stuart or T70. If you choose AGC-Doctrin, you've also access to the KwK 39 L/60 and kill the enemy light tanks even easier. Sounds like a lot fun, doesn't it? ;D
But you've a problem: What to do against Shermans or T34s? Because of the unit-pools, you can't just easily built a PaK...
So what to do? Go back to T1 and tech "Men against Tanks" or build the tank-HQ for Pz 4?
You see, the Ostheer offers a great amount of tactics how the annihilate the enemy, but you've always remember their main disadvantage (which is on the other hand why they've such great strats): The unit-pools!
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I like it a lot!
- What do you mean can't find a way to represent it via
Rewards-system? / I'm a fan of tactics, flavor and variety.
But not OP ;) 'early advantage over other factions' ? It'd kill
USA no?
-
What I meant with Reward-system: Which unit should be Pz2 replace? Pz3? No, read my previous post for further explanation. :)
It'd kill USA no?
Exactly. Death to the USA!
...
::)
Erm, actually you've a point here. It WILL kill USA.
However, putting it in tanks-HQ as a neutral unit as replacement for the Pz4 just wouldn't be right.
But this is nothing which can't be solved, for example via costs for building the Support-HQ and teching the offensive-unit-pool.
The main idea here is, that T1 (inf-HQ) will come at the same time as playing as WH. But T2 (support) of the Ostheer will come when WH-player normally has already T3.
WH's T4 is the same as tank- or arty-HQ of OH.
Therefore the OH-player has to chose to either have tanks or rely on artillery and StuGs. (It should be nearly impossible to have both at nearly the same time!) :)
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It's a timing issue. Darn thing being play balance.
We'll really know once we begin the beta, but early
tanks would really hurt USA.
As for Reward Units... Ah, I don't know. I'm always for
Reward Units, eh, as it's nice for campaigns, etc. As what
should it replace, the Pz2 ? Well, Puma of course ;) This
sort of thing happens when there are 3x German factions,
wouldn't you say? :)
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Yep. It's really only a matter of the right timing. But having T2Off (-> Pz3) at the time, when US has T3 seems OK to me. :)
So they can counter them with their 57mm. Of course, their pesky M8 won't have a change against the Pz3, but that was my intention.
Same for Red Army: The Pz3 will crush their T70 and T90, but won't stand a change vs. T34 and also have a hard time struggling with tank-hunter-squads and ZiS-2.
As what should it replace, the Pz2 ? Well, Puma of course ;)
Now I get what you meant! Adding reward-units to the vCoH-factions could be really fun. :D
However, the Pz2 wouldn't fit into OH. That's what I meant. ;D
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- Hmmm, but it's a game-breaker :p USA - Early advantage.
Germans having better early/middle advantage than USA =
autowin ;p
And 57 mm aren'T hard to run circles around :)
Especially a unit with a turret!!!!
- Well reward unit for OE. Since no modif of vanilla factions
Right? :)
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- Hmmm, but it's a jawbreaker :p USA - Early advantage.
Germans having better early/middle advantage than USA =
autowin ;p
And 57 mm aren't hard to run circles around :)
Especially a unit with a turret!!!!
- Well reward unit for OE. Since no modif of vanilla factions
Right? :)
I think its the other way around Germany does best at the end of the match while America does somewhat better in the begening and mid
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Yea but his ostheer has huge early/early-middle advantage ;)
And Soviets being even slower than Wehr in early game...
It's an uber auto win :)
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Yea but his ostheer has huge early/early-middle advantage ;)
And Soviets being even slower than Wehr in early game...
It's an uber auto win :)
NO one here has played the Ostheer "they don't have anything for it well maybe one or two tanks" so no one knows what the Ostheer is
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OstHeer is 'I press a button' right at the start and
600 JagTigers rush in and crush the enemy right at the
beginning :D
I think a lot of people would want to play that :)
... As long as they play Germans.
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To make things clear:
Pz3 is T2Off.
T2 of the OH is the equivalent to T3 of US. Remember you've to pay for the offensive-unit-pool, too.
Furthermore, if you tech T2Off, you will not have PaKs or decent AI (-> FlaK)! ;)
So, of course, the Pz3 should be able to crush the M8 or other light tanks, because the OH don't have another option, except p'fausts and molotovs, to destroy the enemy light/mid tanks of the enemy.
If you go T2Def instead, the OH don't have any vehicle at all except the support-truck, which only gives support and the RSO, which is an unarmed transporter, however, you'll have nice defensive AT and AI-capabilities. ;D
Therefore, I don't think the OH (why the heck you call it OE, that doesn't make any sence at all :D ) is OP.
The US-player just can't simply use massive inf-blobs, he has to use real tactis to mess with the OH.
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Oh, hey, if there are severe costs to doing something,
that makes it a little better. See, ever pro has to be offset
by cons. Yummy pro, severe cons :)
I basically like your proposal. Just that any pure pro
unit will automatically get a nay from me, see? (It's a chess
game!).
- I call it OE like I call WE and PE... ;)
OH is Oh Henry candy bar for me ;)
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Most units of my proposal are "pro"-units.
If you look at them at the first time: PaK40 > PaK 38
Landser > Grenadier
Pz3 > Puma
Pz4 H > Pz 4 G
etc.
But the point is, they only seem to be like uber-units.
Panzers for example have decreased LOS, so you have to first get vet I (pzcmd), which can only be done via fighting and killing, side-schurzen are also vet, mg-upgrade for inf is vet etc etc.
So when playing vs the OH, you don't have to be afraid of suddenly being confronted with vet3 inf and vet 2 tanks. ;D
And of course, there're the unit-pools...
OE does makes sence in the line of OE and PE.
However, only PE (= Panzerelite) exists. The other should be OH (= Ostheer) and WH (= Wehrmacht Heer). :P
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Doesn't that encourage spamming, though?
Like 20x Pz4/37AAFLakpanzers?
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Personally I would prefer the Pak 43 but then again that thing would be a real thorn in your side to move around the battlefield unless you have trucks.
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It's not like spamming. It's called a Panzerkampfverband. (http://freesmileys.smiliesuche.de/panzer/panzer-smilies-0006.gif)
;D
I think, the vet-system will decrease spamming instead of couraging it. Due to the vet-system, units can only have important upgrades if they survive and win a lot of fights, so the OH-player will more likely concentrate on single tanks and pay all his attention and micro to those important units instead of trying to crush the enemy by pure mass, because Vet 0-units performs pretty poor.
However, I've changed the Pz3 J to a Pz3 with 3.7cm KwK 36.
I know only a small amount of them were actually in service, but now the Pz3 will be more like between a puma and hotchkiss/stuart/T-70.
Seems fair to me.
(Doctrin-Upgrade is now the 7.5cm "Stummel"-cannon for increased AI-capabilities.)
@Panzerjager, there's already the allmighty FlaK "88". And I think it's possible, with a lot of work, of course, to add artillery tractors, this is why they're also in my proposal. :)
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LOL! I love that Panzer smilies icon! LOL WTF? Where did
you get that thing? :)
Well, the best way to know, is to playtest it, alas ;)
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LOL! I love that Panzer smilies icon! LOL WTF? Where did
you get that thing? :)
Google. ;D
However, back on topic:
Is it just me, or is there actually too much inf in my concept?
I'm thinking about removing the MG-Trupp (inf-bunkers in Army Group South) and sniper (since soviet inf will most likely come in large numbers, he would be quite useless)...
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Yes there is too much inf in your concept, then again you might want to ask someone else since I love my panzers :P.
Also yea I must agree The Pak 43 is a bit superflous when there is the Flak 36 because it is the same caliber and it can shoot planes.
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Aw but... the sniper wars on the east front... ;)
It's nice to masturbate on the concepts, but when the
devs are not even working on Ostheer...
I know how you feel, though. I got my own pet ideas I
very much would like to see in the end resulting factions,
but, alas, I'm not the one making said factions, they are.
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This is the reason why the Pak 43 would need a truck to tow
(http://www.oldhickory30th.com/Arno%20Lasoe%20German%2088%202.jpg)(http://www.germansoldiers.com/Bilder2/Normandie/pak43.jpg)
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Slight historical inaccuracy.
The Chetniks never fought against the Russians. In fact, most of them did not even fight for Germany. Chetniks were the Serbian king's army and remained loyal to the kingdom and fought against the Yugoslav partisans only because the Yugo partisans were communists and they feared the fall of their kingdom. Most of the Chetniks fought against the Germans anyway. Saying that the osteer should call in Chetnik partisans against the Russians is like saying that the Wehrmacht could call in French partisans.
In the stead of the Chetniks however, you could put Croatians for they did participate in the war on the eastern front on the side of the Axis.
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I see why you want the Chetniks... A way to counter the Soviet partisans, yes? But it just doesn't make sense - at all. They hated the Germans and fought against them (although the helped them in a couple of anti-communist operations - the Yugo part of WW2 is a frikkin' mess). Is it even necessary for the Ostheer to have a partisan-style unit just to balance them to the Soviets?
Croats would make more sense, as some have already mentioned. Alot of them participated in the war against the Soviet army - some even fought at Stalingrad. I'm not sure about how you could make them unique, though.
Btw, to everyone pointing out how this is the "GERMAN Ostheer" and how the Axis allies aren't worth mentioning; non-german units would add alot of colour and flavour to this faction. And we already have two "pure" German factions... Besides, it's not like some Finnish elite soldiers or one or two non-German tanks would steal the whole show, the majority of units will still be Germans.
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I just named them "Chetniks" cause that was the first thing I found after a very short wiki/google.
They aren't in my concept to counter the soviet partisans, but rather to have a very cheap call-in unit to stop the red tide (conscripts etc.) with their lifes. So they won't survive long time, they're more like a quick response or counter attack unit till the backbone of the Ostheer inf, the Landsers arrive. :-X
That being said, you can call them whatever you want. For instance, I'll name them "Croatian Volunteers", OK? :)
To further explain the three doctrins:
Army Group North is based on the combined warfare with strong infantry. To counter enemy armour, there's the 3-f's (Faust-for-free) and StuKa. If you're short on tanks, call in the armoured support group.
Army Group Centre is of course based on massive tank-action. Three armoured call-ins from Tiger to Elefant garantue the effectniss of your armoured attack!
Army Group South promises superb defensive capabilities to fortify your positions. However, if the enemy breaks through, you can hold back their inf with cheap and fast-to-deploy Croatian Volunteers.
EDIT: I've updated my concept, so please take a short look at it.
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I've said same thing against chetniks ;)
Croatian volunteers is just about perfect, actually :)
- I want finns! for army north!
- As for Centre Group, well, it's it a bit tank heavy?
It's got heavier tanks than Wehr-Blitz for ccsakes ;)
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Thanks! I also think Croats are the right thing here.
* Finns actually are already part of Army Group North. ???
* AGC is THE tank-doctrin of the Ostheer. However, if you choose that doc, you really have to rely on armour, cause there aren't any inf-specific upgrades or bonus in it.
Blitz is more about, ehm, Blitzkrieg? AGC about heavy tank-combat (think of Kursk etc.)
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Yea, that's fine. As all factions should be, really.
If you choose something, well, use it, because if you're
wehr defensive, you won't get any tiger or pershing ;)
or Callioppe ;)
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If you choose something, well, use it
Exactly.
I've updated the proposal n° 02854 yet another time, so please take a look at it.
Each "Camp" and unit-pool now has 3 units, therefore it won't get too much but still allows an wide variety of possible tactics.
Army Group Centre is now forced to rely on tanks, because the two defensive pools are locked.
I think now my concept is completed, representating the counter-part of the Red Army and at the same time being balanced to the old factions. :)
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Oh, hey, I like it lots :)
Especially, yes, lol. Your uses of self-penalties/limitations
on own troops (like british initial slow troops, etc). THAT gives flavor and, yea, can be used to 'buy' yummy
abilities. (We're talking balance here). Too many people
just start with : 'Here's my OP dream team proposal :
First Axis start with 40 Tigers...' ;)
Your proposal has improved a lot since beginning :)
Looks like it'd be fun to play!
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Hey there! ;)
I've improved and updated the concept once again, now it also features the costs (have to balance-tested!)
Tell me if you like it or how to make it even better. :)
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I liked a lot your proposal, the only thing doesnt convice me is having the Elephant and the Tiger in the same Army Group
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I liked a lot your proposal, the only thing doesnt convice me is having the Elephant and the Tiger in the same Army Group
I think that's the only REAL way how to put them in. ;D
Remember, the doctrin is focused on heavy tank combat, the first unlock on left side additionally prevents the player to build any Paks or even artillery.
So I would say it's fairly balanced, seeing how two IS-2 can ripp a King-Tiger and the soviets may have also the ISU-152 in the backhand, the Red Army should have no problems with winning against this special doctrin.
US-player can blobb the Ostheer into hell, remember: No HMG and no arty!
Brit may have a few issues, however, it's nothing a few Fireflies can't solve. ;)
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mmm...Ok I see your point. But I having a constant supply of Elephants and Tigers doenst convice me. How about making the Elephant a "only one per battle" call in and give it some nice stats like a Jagdpanther with some special ability or with those veterancy abilities of yours.
Something like:
Vet I The Elephant is now equipped with a Commander Cupola providing better sight
Vet II The Elephant is now equipped with a ball-mounted MG 34
Vet III The Elephant can now use armor piercing shells, break treads or some cool skill... ;)
There is no problems with the Tiger being a regular call in, but two heavy tanks seems a bit too much to me.
Just my thoughts...