Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => General Discussion => Topic started by: ford_prefect on December 08, 2009, 06:59:03 AM

Title: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: ford_prefect on December 08, 2009, 06:59:03 AM
I was debating with my friend (AxisRock) about small tanks and I said that a Hotchkiss or two would be able to take on a Russian T70 (in the game) without any upgrades.
So my question is who would win? This must have happened atleast once or twice durring the beta if so and who won and do you have a video of it? And if not can you guys test it out?
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Loupblanc on December 08, 2009, 07:19:14 AM

 Well, there is one slight problem. Completely different Tiers ;)
 The Hotchkiss can obtain vet and a gun upgrade. The T70
 can't. Vet, missiles, enhanced gun :)

 For the T70's side, you don't need to pay an expensive
 tank hall upgrade before you can even start to build it in
 the first place :)

 So T70 comes waaay earlier.
 
 Ok. But for a face to face fight? Vanilla (default) for
 Hotchkiss and (obviously default) for T70, then, yea,
 I think it'd be pretty even...

 But once Hotchkiss were completely upgraded... ;)
 (vet3 + gun + missiles...)(I don't think they should
 get both upgrades. It should be one OR the other) Meh.

 Then T70 would get seriously raped ;)

Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: ford_prefect on December 08, 2009, 07:23:03 AM
OK sense the t70 comes first lets say the Hotchkiss didn't have enough time to upgrade and for some deranged reason the German General said "lets send this piece of shit up!" And it comes in contact with a T70 what will happen?

Post Merge: December 08, 2009, 07:24:27 AM
I'm sorry It's just I am fond of smaller tanks :) some think its creapy but I just think they look nice and they complment infantry rather well (the hotchkiss is the ONLY reason I got TOV well maybe that kangroo had somthing to do with it aswell)
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Loupblanc on December 08, 2009, 07:42:40 AM
 You should play Combat Mission : Berlin to Barbarossa with me ;) There's a very nice mission with pz38(t)+2x Stu3B vs
BT7's and a call-in T34/76. At night. In a snowstorm :D

 ----
 As for H35/H39 vs T70...
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchkiss_H35 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchkiss_H35)
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-70 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-70)
 
H35 129km/28kph, 7.1Horsepower/ton, 37mm gun.
Armor : 40mm/34mm. Crew : 2. Built: 1200.
T70 350km/45kph, 15Horsepower/ton, 45mm gun.
Armor : 10mm (rear) to 60mm (front/turret). Crew : 2. B8226.
 
 The faster one will decide terrain/angle. I'd say T70 would
 win. Of course. A man with a wooden spoon could win in
 a duel with a man with an M60, but... ;)

 It's fairly close, though. It boils down to whoever gets
 a lucky penetrating shot first. With vet and the gun upgrade
 H39, though, odds don't look good for T70, but it could
 still win.

 It'd be a matter of skill.



 The commander manned a standard APX-R turret, armoured with 40 mm cast steel and armed with the short 37 mm SA 18 gun, which had a maximum armour penetration of only 23 mm.
There was a hatch in the back of the turret. The commander could sit on it for better observation, but this made him very vulnerable and slow to reach the gun. The alternative was to fight buttoned-up, using the hatchless cupola. The Cavalry liked neither this arrangement nor the weak gun. The latter problem was lessened somewhat by boring out the fire chamber so that special rounds with a larger charge could be used. This increased muzzle velocity to about 600 m/s and maximum penetration to about 30 mm. Only a small part of the tanks with the Cavalry alone were thus changed however, because it strongly increased barrel wear. In the Spring of 1940 the original diascopes of the Chrétien type were gradually replaced with episcopes, offering more protection.
 
 Commander was the one looking around, LOADING the gun,
 aiming the gun, firing the gun... Crew of 2 is a bitch :)
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: ford_prefect on December 08, 2009, 07:46:11 AM
yeah well just watch the first 12 seconds of this and you will get my point http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38dzJY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38dzJY)

"no one expects the spanish inquisition!"
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Loupblanc on December 08, 2009, 07:47:26 AM

 The URL contained a malformed video ID.
 Either give me better link or tell me what to look out for?
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: ford_prefect on December 08, 2009, 07:50:54 AM

 The URL contained a malformed video ID.
 Either give me better link or tell me what to look out for?

Monty Python - Spanish Inquisition Torture Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38dzJYkY#normal)
"no body expects the spanish inquistion!" I'm saying that it could happen
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Loupblanc on December 08, 2009, 08:13:31 AM

 Er, now I'm really confused ;)
 What does spanish inquisition have to do with this whole
 topic? ;)
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: luz777 on December 08, 2009, 12:38:14 PM
Yeah Im kinda lost with that one.

Still, this forum could do with more Monty Python...
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Loupblanc on December 08, 2009, 12:42:38 PM

 I like Monty Python a lot :)
 Hey, Luz, go check up my suggestion thread! :D
 On T34 call-ins :)
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Voop_Bakon on December 08, 2009, 07:14:12 PM
Loup, people will read your thread, you dont need to advertise  ;)

Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Loupblanc on December 08, 2009, 08:49:23 PM

 I wrote it a week ago and not a single person had commented
 despite 57 reads or so :p
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: BurroDiablo on December 08, 2009, 09:00:19 PM
Quote
pz38(t)

I remember seeing those in some Vid a while back, they sent tonnes of them to the Eastern Front. They built the Marder III on the same chassis... It would make some nice Ostheer light tank material, certainly better than the Panzer II ;)
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: luz777 on December 08, 2009, 10:38:21 PM
Indeed it would.

It was pretty good for an early war tank, would be nice to see the Ostheer using them in the light tank role :)

Cheers
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: ford_prefect on December 09, 2009, 12:16:49 AM
Yeah Im kinda lost with that one.

Still, this forum could do with more Monty Python...
Ok it means like Loup said "it probably won't happen" well on Monty they said "no body expects the Spanish inquistion!" See what I mean?
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Loupblanc on December 09, 2009, 03:37:56 AM

 Burrito :
  - Pz38(t) : Yea, that's got my vote ;) Although it was
 obsolete by 1942... mmm... but it'd be nice yea :)
 - Marder3 is built on Pz38(t) frame? Dude, you don't know
 what you are talking about!! Actually, the
 
 Marder III
The Marder III is the name for a series of World War II German tank destroyer s built on the chassis of the Panzer 38(t). German word " ...
10 KB (1,530 words) - 21:17, 4 December 2009
 
 ... Dum de dum de daaa...

 - Luz777 : Yea, it's got my vote :)
 Pz2 can be a reward unit :D

 - Ford Prefect : Oooh so that's the link, allright.
 I get it now :) No comments :)
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: BurroDiablo on December 09, 2009, 05:00:19 AM
Quote
- Marder3 is built on Pz38(t) frame? Dude, you don't know
 what you are talking about!! Actually, the
 
 Marder III
The Marder III is the name for a series of World War II German tank destroyer s built on the chassis of the Panzer 38(t). German word " ...

lolwut? I'm not sure if what you're saying is satire or what, but its making no sense...

From Achtung Panzer -

Quote
The Marder III was produced in two variants - Ausf H and Ausf M. They were based on the Panzerkampfwagen 38(t) Ausf H and Ausf M light tank chassis, respectively.

...

Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: ford_prefect on December 09, 2009, 05:21:17 AM
WHAT...................THE................HELL COME ON GUYS! Ahhhhhhh you say I go off topic a lot (which I do sometimes but the latest time I deleated my comments that were off topic) CAN I JUST GET AN ANSWER BURRO BEFORE THE THREAD IS COMPLETLY RECKED?
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Loupblanc on December 09, 2009, 06:21:15 AM

 - HolyBurrito : I thought the Marder3 couldn't possibly be
built off the Pz38(t), then looked it up (to plaster you with
irrefutable proof and... ... well, dumdedudaaa... ;) (Runs to
hide under bed)
 
 - If someone wants to play a BT7/T34/76(1940 turret)
 vs Pz38(t) + 2x Stu3B in Combat Mission : Berlin to Barbarossa
 with troops, in a snowstorm at night... ;) I'm all for it! :D
 
 - As for Ford_Prefect : I answered your question! :D
 I gave you awesome, best reply already! :D

 : It's wrecked, not Recked, and I don't even speak the
 language ! :D
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: ford_prefect on December 09, 2009, 07:45:02 AM

 - HolyBurrito : I thought the Marder3 couldn't possibly be
built off the Pz38(t), then looked it up (to plaster you with
irrefutable proof and... ... well, dumdedudaaa... ;) (Runs to
hide under bed)
 
 - If someone wants to play a BT7/T34/76(1940 turret)
 vs Pz38(t) + 2x Stu3B in Combat Mission : Berlin to Barbarossa
 with troops, in a snowstorm at night... ;) I'm all for it! :D
 
 - As for Ford_Prefect : I answered your question! :D
 I gave you awesome, best reply already! :D

 : It's wrecked, not Recked, and I don't even speak the
 language ! :D
yeah thats how pissed you got me I'm not even checking spell check any more
also to tell you the trouth I well don't care about what you THINK about it because you don't have the mod I am kind of pissed that burro decided to go on and on about what ever the hell you guys are talking about without even posting ONE LITTLE POST ABOUT THE SUBJECT AT HAND.
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: luz777 on December 09, 2009, 12:49:19 PM
Ford I think you should get some insence sticks and have a good old calm down.

Also get some punctuation.  :P
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: BurroDiablo on December 09, 2009, 04:52:26 PM
Ford, whining about it isn't going to make matters any better... so shut up.

What you requested required some testing, so I went PE and got myself a bunch of Hotchkisses. Now, this isn't exactly what you asked for, but it puts the Hotchkiss in some perspective... for a shit French light tank, it packs quite a punch... these 3 made quick work of T-34's and even managed to take down an IS-2 -

3 Hotchkiss vs IS 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woIed66mA6E#normal)

The IS-2 in the Vid is at about 80% health and only 2 of the Hotchkisses have the long barrel upgrade.

It makes a difference from the Soviets pwning eh, when an IS-2 can be humilated like that ;)
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Loupblanc on December 09, 2009, 06:16:50 PM

 Ford_Prefect : To tell you the trout? What? You talk to
 fish now? :p Man, don't play with your food. That's just wrong.
 
 - I don't need a spell checker ;)
 
 Luz777 : I think he needs to get laid, actually :D

 MostHolyBurro : Ooooh, man, we love you :)
 But, actually, the question was 1 Hotchkiss vs 1x T70
 ... But I suppose this answers it...

 Poor IS2... I thought it was supposed to be all-powerful
 and invulnerable and could kill a KingTiger in a single blow!
 That *IS* a 122mm... ;)
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: BurroDiablo on December 09, 2009, 06:41:55 PM
This was with AI, for some reason it prefers to build T-90's as opposed to T-70's. Gah, wish we could get the T-60 in instead of that god awful T-90.
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Loupblanc on December 09, 2009, 06:57:45 PM

 Well the T90 is a pre-upgrade Puma thingie... so, perhaps?
 Ahh, evil AI :) Get that super coder guy to fix it! Lol.

 T60 would replace T70 not T90 ;) Different hull.
 And get ZSU37 instead of T90 :) (I know, animating the
 crew is the issue, sigh). Slap a tarp over them ;) (as per
 T90)
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Voop_Bakon on December 09, 2009, 07:36:18 PM
Ford, whining about it isn't going to make matters any better... so shut up.

What you requested required some testing, so I went PE and got myself a bunch of Hotchkisses. Now, this isn't exactly what you asked for, but it puts the Hotchkiss in some perspective... for a shit French light tank, it packs quite a punch... these 3 made quick work of T-34's and even managed to take down an IS-2 -

*snip*video*snip*

The IS-2 in the Vid is at about 80% health and only 2 of the Hotchkisses have the long barrel upgrade.

It makes a difference from the Soviets pwning eh, when an IS-2 can be humilated like that ;)

The reason the IS-2 died was because he didnt hold still lol. He showed his rear armor and decreased his accuracy by moving around a lot. Still, that does show the IS-2 is the super tank it seems
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Loupblanc on December 09, 2009, 07:43:33 PM

 Big long slow turret gun. Moving about and losing accuracy
 showing his butt to those hotchkisses...
 If it'd been a player, would have gone differently

 But yea, it can be killed :D
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: BurroDiablo on December 09, 2009, 08:43:08 PM
The majority of the frontal shots penetrate however, so indeed, this is not the super OP Panther pwnerer that the majority seem to think.
If I was to put 3 T-70's up against a Panther, I can guarentee the Panther would survive with very little damage.
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Voop_Bakon on December 09, 2009, 08:49:35 PM
Hmm lets see here. IS-2 can best a panther 1v1 according to the guide. So IS-2 > Panther.  3x Hotchkiss > IS-2 and according to burro 3x t-70 < Panther. So that means IS-2 > 3x t-70 and therefore 3x Hotchkiss > 3x t-70. Divide by 3 and you get Hotchkiss > t-70. There ford_perfect, I figured it out for you.  ;D
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Loupblanc on December 09, 2009, 09:01:40 PM

 I'm confused now :)
 Hmm... ...

 So who would win in a 3x hotchkiss vs 1x Panther fight?
 I vote to remove the OP Panther from the game, then ! :D

 Frontal shots penetrate? WTF :)
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Voop_Bakon on December 10, 2009, 12:01:30 AM
Why would a hotchkiss ever fight a panther (in-game)? Hmm, I did not know frontal shots penetrated with the hotchkiss, maybe the little bastard is worth having
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: ford_prefect on December 10, 2009, 12:35:41 AM
Why would a hotchkiss ever fight a panther (in-game)? Hmm, I did not know frontal shots penetrated with the hotchkiss, maybe the little bastard is worth having
yes I like the little thing any way thanks burro that some what puts it in order. If that was a hard pc I'm shocked well I think that if 3hotchkiss's (or however you say it ;D can take on a beast tank like that then I think that one can take on a t-70

Post Merge: December 10, 2009, 12:53:21 AM
Ford, whining about it isn't going to make matters any better... so shut up.

What you requested required some testing, so I went PE and got myself a bunch of Hotchkisses. Now, this isn't exactly what you asked for, but it puts the Hotchkiss in some perspective... for a shit French light tank, it packs quite a punch... these 3 made quick work of T-34's and even managed to take down an IS-2 -

3 Hotchkiss vs IS 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woIed66mA6E#normal)

The IS-2 in the Vid is at about 80% health and only 2 of the Hotchkisses have the long barrel upgrade.

It makes a difference from the Soviets pwning eh, when an IS-2 can be humilated like that ;)
looking at that says that you guys have the mod working
Title: Re: Hotchkiss tank V. T70
Post by: Loupblanc on December 10, 2009, 08:07:56 AM

 I was joking, lol.
 Yea, they'Re worth having! :D They're 6 pop, Stuart-level ;)
 Weak armor, so, hopefully, they have SOMETHING to be
 worth having, yes? :)