Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Suggestions => Topic started by: Venoxxis on January 04, 2010, 04:38:21 PM
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Hello together,
also being interested on a great, individual third German faction, i thought about possible Ostheer doctrines. Writing another whole Ostheer concept wouldnt make sense anymore.
Thats why i just thought about doctrines - doctrins to inspirate later Ostheer concepts. Today i got just one doctrine ready, because its pretty much work, but i will update my first post and give you 2 more doctrine suggestions later on.
Doctrines:
1st Schutzstaffel - Abteilung Ost
The first doctrine of the Ostheer, is focused on elite units. Using the powerfull SchutzStafffel elite units, he has some of the most powerfull soldiers ingame.
(http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6699/ssost.png)
Left site:
Oil production (2)
For 70 ammo, you will get for
2 minutes 25% more oil!
Panzerjäger Nashorn (2)
From now on you got the ability
to build heavy tankhunters
"Nashorn" in your tank Factory.
They are equipted with the
fearsome Flak 88.
Black Tiger Ace (5)
This tiger almost never misses his target
and is harder to knock than usual tiger tanks.
Also you have the ability to shoot for
50 ammo for a short period of time the
fearsome "Panzergrante 40". This beast will
knock even the thickest soviet steel monster.
Also, the Tiger Ace can select between a high explosive shell,
against infantry, and armor piercing shells against tanks.
You can call in only one Tiger Ace per game.
Costs: 1000 manpower.
What would be the ostheer without a tiger? :P
Right site:
Schutzstaffel-elite Soldiers (3)
4 Well armed SS-Soldiers will be
send to the battlefield from outside
of the map. Costs: 400 manpower.
Schutzstaffel Veterans (2)
All new SS call-in units are now
vetarens.
That makes them:
- harder to kill
- can be equipped with mp 44s. (costs: 70 ammo.)
- can knock tanks with "haftbomben" (costs: 60ammo.)
- cloaked if they dont move
Panzerschreck (1)
SS- troops can now be equipped
with Panzerschrecks for 50 ammo.
2nd Ingenieure der Ostfront
(Ingineers of the eastern front)
The 2nd doctrine of the Ostheer uses the well educated german ingineers to show its superiority.
With this engineers your regular pioneers are abeled to build defensive structures of even the heaviest kind.
Again, i've got a new image for you:
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3850/dipling.png)
Left Side:
Ingineer Superiority (2)
All buldings which are build under the
observation of the German Dipl. Ing., (look at the right side)
will get several improvements.
-> thicker armor
-> if the buildings got weapons inside,
they will get a better range.
-> faster construction
Better Observation Posts (2)
From now on your OP's
will give doubled amount
of the normal resources.
Grille Artillerieschlag (3)
Call a heavy artillerie strike from outside of the map.
costs: 150 ammo.
Right Side:
German Diplom Ingineer (1)
Call in a well educated German Dipl. Ing..
This officer-like unit is bad armed, but it gives
you serveral new options, just like a british commander
gives your units leadership. Being close to your
pioneer squads, these will get new building options.
costs: 200 manpower.
poineers will be abled to contruct:
-> sandbags
-> heavy roadblocks
-> Bunker with a MG-42, which can relocate.
-> trenches
-> mines
-> a medic stadion (medics who carry hurt soldiers to the
station to set up a new squad.)
Pantherturm (2)
Pioneers with a Dipl. Ing. in their area
are now abled to build a powerfull pantherturm.
Mortal Bunker (3)
A Dipl. Ing. gives your Pioneers the ability to build
a very well armored mortal bunker. Only one bunker
can be build at the same time.
Surrounded units can be restocked.
Also it can be used as a retreating point.
The bunker is well armed as well with its heavy mortal
at the top and an MG-42 in the tower. snipers cant kill these
units.
The bunker can hold 15 man or 4 units.
-> it can be upgraded with a "heal-upgrade"
which heals the surrounded units.
see ya soon,
regards - Venoxxis.
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EPIC!!!! I LIKE THIS!!!!
Although my vision of an SS doctrine is something a little more "Sturm and Fear" thing this is awesome.
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Thanks, but still, if somebody has any critics
on balancing issues or something like that, just call them out :P
if u got better suggestions, i will change my concepts ;)
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I like your thinking though do believe they could use a little tweaking
The 25% fuel bonus is way too low, and if it only works on one sector your likely to get as little as 6-8 fuel points at a cost of 50 munitions. Would be best to either triple the fuel from one point or make it 25-50% of ALL fuel points. Even though it is only a transfer of equivalent munitions to fuel, and is really not that much of a bonus/reward to the Ostheer player when compared to all the first few Allied abilities.
I like the concept of a Tiger Ace, but the cost is way too high, I 'd be much better off building two panthers, and the whole point of these CP points are to reward the player. This however seems more like just an alternative unit. If it can only be called in once, how about reducing the price to 700-1000 manpower, if not then lets reward the player by letting it be recalled if destroyed
As for the elite troops, it sounds just like the blitz doctrine stormtroopers for a higher cost but without the cloak ability or Knights cross without the automatic Mp44 upgrade. So perhaps these ones could have something slightly different (especially for their higher cost), like being able to throw a munition free greanade once every minute, or being able to upgrade to a flamethrower, (making them good urban fighters etc)
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For only 4 posts, rummy seems to know what hes talking about.
He pretty much nailed the problems with your idea on the head. Not saying this is the case, but to me it feels like you didn't much thought or do the math to see how your idea would fit in game. Your going in the right direction, just try and flush out and think through your ideas more.
Keep the ideas coming
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Thank you very much guys, really helpfully.
we can create this way really awesome doctrines :D
I did chance the oil thing, you are totally right about that.
The tiger ace should stay pretty expensive, but i lowered his
costs to 1000. also i added a new ability, to make this tiger really a kick-ass.
The 1000 man power should be ok i guess, because other elite units which are just for one time call-in able cost 500, but you resource income will be halfed for 5min as well!
Thank you for the ss-elite unit tipps as well.
if you still got some suggestions, call them out :)
regards,
Venoxxis
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Lil detail... should NEVER have more than 1 88mm unit per
doctrine... Nashorns AND Tiger ace in same doctrine?? NO$#(*
way :)
... Think about it for a second.
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i did think about that ;)
The nashorn is more compareable to a geschützwagen
than to a tiger or a king tiger tank.
they had almost the same armour piercing abilities, and both were really very bad armored. so guess it should be okay.
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As a rull of tumbs you will always want to have something in the doctrine that costs munition. You do have Oil protection and some unit upgrades and abilities, but noting that realy suck munition. I am not sure if this is a problem, but it is different than most other classic doctrines.
I would consider to make Schutzstaffel Veterans and Panzerschreck one ability and than make another one called fast production which cost some munition but finished all the unit you where about to build or mabey gave all your soliers in a sector some of their HP back over time, for two minutes. Any ability that would make sure that you never sit with munition you can used.
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- Call it Oil PRODUCTION not oil PROTECTION, no?
- Yea Nashorn is a type of Marder3 (75mm), or Geshutzwagen
(75mm) but... same armor piercing abilities?? Nash is 88mm
long barrel ...
it's like saying 88 flak is same as USA Sherman short barrel
75mm... no way :)
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did you know that the panther's 75mm gun had better armor piercing abilities than the tiger I's 88?
bigger isnt always better :p
also, the nashorn didnt get the powerfull gun of the king tiger, the 88 KwK L/71. actually, the nashorn did use one of the earliest versions of the pak 43 (flak88). this tank was using pak 43/1.
enough of that now, still thank you for you critics and tipps. :) i changed the production thing 8)
About the ammo suck ability.. well, i guess its a good one to see a doctrine which isnt compareable in that way with classic doc's.
This doc will be sucked out of money when giving his powerfull units thier special weapons, maybe its just another way of ammo sucking ;)
Regards
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Cool ideas. ;)
the one with the ingineer rocks hell! 8)
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Yea I knew about the Panther's 75mm having better
penetration capabilities than the Tiger's 88mm :)
Surprising,though :)
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alright loup ;)
but take a look at the first post,
what do you think about the 2nd doc.
really would like to hear your feedback :)
or look here:
2nd Ingenieure der Ostfront
(Ingineers of the eastern front)
The 2nd doctrine of the Ostheer uses the well educated german ingineers to show its superiority.
With this engineers your regular pioneers are abeled to build defensive structures of even the heaviest kind.
Again, i've got a new image for you:
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3850/dipling.png)
Left Side:
Ingineer Superiority (2)
All buldings which are build under the
observation of the German Dipl. Ing., (look at the right side)
will get several improvements.
-> thicker armor
-> if the buildings got weapons inside,
they will get a better range.
-> faster construction
Better Observation Posts (2)
From now on your OP's
will give doubled amount
of the normal resources.
Grille Artillerieschlag (3)
Call a heavy artillerie strike from outside of the map.
costs: 150 ammo.
Right Side:
German Diplom Ingineer (1)
Call in a well educated German Dipl. Ing..
This officer-like unit is bad armed, but it gives
you serveral new options, just like a british commander
gives your units leadership. Being close to your
pioneer squads, these will get new building options.
costs: 200 manpower.
poineers will be abled to contruct:
-> sandbags
-> heavy roadblocks
-> Bunker with a MG-42, which can relocate.
-> trenches
-> heavy roadblocks
-> mines
-> a medic stadion (medics who carry hurt soldiers to the
station to set up a new squad.)
Pantherturm (2)
Pioneers with a Dipl. Ing. in their area
are now abled to build a powerfull pantherturm.
Mortal Bunker (3)
A Dipl. Ing. gives your Pioneers the ability to build
a very well armored mortal bunker. Only one bunker
can be build at the same time.
Surrounded units can be restocked.
Also it can be used as a retreating point.
The bunker is well armed as well with its heavy mortal
at the top and an MG-42 in the tower. snipers cant kill these
units.
The bunker can hold 15 man or 4 units.
-> it can be upgraded with a "heal-upgrade"
which heals the surrounded units.
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I don't like your second doctrie as much. It is to defensive and encourage defensive play.
Mabey if you mixed it up a little, so it was not all about building stuff, but had a single call in unit and an ability that gave somekind of passive bonus. I really like your Mortal bunker, the captains ability to give a second retreat point is not used enough and it is nice to see it used in another army.
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there is ALWAYS a defencive doctorine @ the german side so to me the second 1 just looks fine (btw nice that u though about something else then that 88 again)
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that defensive doctrine is awesome. indeed, it inspired me to update my Ostheer concept.
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Posted by: rummy
Insert Quote
I like your thinking though do believe they could use a little tweaking
The 25% fuel bonus is way too low, and if it only works on one sector your likely to get as little as 6-8 fuel points at a cost of 50 munitions. Would be best to either triple the fuel from one point or make it 25-50% of ALL fuel points. Even though it is only a transfer of equivalent munitions to fuel, and is really not that much of a bonus/reward to the Ostheer player when compared to all the first few Allied abilities.
I like the concept of a Tiger Ace, but the cost is way too high, I 'd be much better off building two panthers, and the whole point of these CP points are to reward the player. This however seems more like just an alternative unit. If it can only be called in once, how about reducing the price to 700-1000 manpower, if not then lets reward the player by letting it be recalled if destroyed
As for the elite troops, it sounds just like the blitz doctrine stormtroopers for a higher cost but without the cloak ability or Knights cross without the automatic Mp44 upgrade. So perhaps these ones could have something slightly different (especially for their higher cost), like being able to throw a munition free greanade once every minute, or being able to upgrade to a flamethrower, (making them good urban fighters etc)
absolutly my oppinion. when i read thruogh the 1st doctrine i asked myself why i should play ostheer with this doctrine, while the wehr gives me mostly the same but cheaper and better
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oK as for the defensive doc..
it seems very simular to the british.
as the panthertrum just like an 17 punder, Mg bunker is just another MG bunker.. my problem is, how would it stand up against in terms of on map artierly.
would it actually have stukas? or.. is it possible to have HUmel or something.
like the russians right now can simply Pund off all axist emplacement and move in, with out actually have to face the bunkers. will there be an on map artierly. like the russians for defensive doc.
no Matter how much an motar bunker is.. it will never beat an 25 punder, or Russian onmap artierly.
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I think the defensive doctrine tree is excellent.
I mean , the 88 is great when playing wehr but the crew can be eaily killed by using any kind of arty so it has a weakness.
The mortar bunker idea is epic.
Im not so sure about the ss tre, it seems too good.
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Thank you for all you replays and critics.
@bout the critics to the first doc, i updated that already.
all critics of the 2nd doc are summed up in this post.
oK as for the defensive doc..
it seems very simular to the british.
as the panthertrum just like an 17 punder, Mg bunker is just another MG bunker.. my problem is, how would it stand up against in terms of on map artierly.
would it actually have stukas? or.. is it possible to have HUmel or something.
like the russians right now can simply Pund off all axist emplacement and move in, with out actually have to face the bunkers. will there be an on map artierly. like the russians for defensive doc.
no Matter how much an motar bunker is.. it will never beat an 25 punder, or Russian onmap artierly.
The problem is, that completely new structures arent possible in COH. (this is what i know).
1) the OH diffensive. doc needs something against tanks,
another 88 would be boring as others already mentioned.
2) another 17 pounder would be a pak 40/43/44 based on
the 17 pounder model. this way its just a other anti
tank structure, which is actually needed to face tank
attacks.
The heavy beton bunkers should get good dif. against attillery - and you still got you att. strike!
The mortar bunker has got other abilities, it isnt just another
25 pounder or something like that. its a medic station, a
huge fotress and a strategic point to sum up your troops.
so there is no reason why it should be compared with a 25 pounder or something like that!
Regards,
Venoxxis
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well.. basically all 3 allied army has on map artierly.
iam just saying we need an on map artierly pieces.. not only just an 150 munition off map. unless you can also build nerbs and stukas.. the bunkers will die in a matter of time, and there isnt a way to hit back. 150 means arty will drop but they can move away , on map a rtlerily means you can wait for reloading time and pound again, liek the russians have,
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Thanks for your reply.
You are right about that, but in general these vehicles should
come from the usal ostheer units.
Currently im thinking about creating one when i got all my
conclaves done.
Also you havent seen the 3rd doc. yet. This guy will
have the ability to blow every soviet bunker with the heaviest
of the german artt. :p
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dont be discouraged , the defensive doctrine is excellent. all the mortar bunker needs is a high hp mabye 2/3 of a hq hp.