Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Balance Discussion => Topic started by: KlausTrofoby on January 22, 2010, 10:20:25 AM
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Hi,
the most OP unit in the game, beside the mortar is the ISU-152. I tried a duel with a vet3 tiger on the open field and he absolutely blew the shit out of the tiger without having a scratch.... 6 vet3 stormtroopers with dual shrek couldnt make it either, not even close to it. I'm surprised that this issue hasn't been discussed yet, or I am blind ... :p
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i didn't try well tanks ;)
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Well, the ISU-152 is supposed to hunt 'animals" like tiger/panther etc.
And also Tiger 1 is a old and obsolete design compared to ISU-152.
Probably what we can do is make ISU-152 much harder to get.
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still, the difference shouldn't be that big, at least the tiger should make some more dmg, since the ISU-152 is based on the hull of the IS-2, which front armor was barely thicker than the Tigers.
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indeed the isu is way too strong.
it can kill a PANTHER with 2-3 shots.
what the hell?
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indeed the isu is way too strong.
it can kill a PANTHER with 2-3 shots.
what the hell?
That was VERY often when Panther crashed into pieces after only one hit from "Beast killer" :) Seriously.
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This shit needs a huge nerf if its going to be only 100 manpower more than a Tiger and can be called in multiple times. In theory this thing almost costs almost the same as a Tiger but is 3x its potential vs tanks and 1x its potential vs infantry. This and the IS-2 can take PAK shots up the ass without much of a scratch at all. When I play with the IS-2 I dont even bother to turn my IS-2 around...I know I can kill the PAK crew well before it can even take out 1/6 of my health.
The KT costs 1000 manpower but takes at least 4 shots to kill a Sherman. This thing also costs 1000 but takes 2 to kill a Panzer4. KT is also 1 time call in...
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It can easily be circle strafed by a panther and of course it is going to beat a tiger it costs more and takes longer to get also if you ever played Men of War you would know how go the ISU is.
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It can easily be circle strafed by a panther and of course it is going to beat a tiger it costs more and takes longer to get also if you ever played Men of War you would know how go the ISU is.
I'm not sure how you're getting that it takes longer to get since by my arithmetic it comes out at 8cp while the tiger is 9...
Also, the problem isn't that it beats the Tiger; the problem is that it WTFRAPES the tiger and even the panther while costing insignificantly more and actually coming out sooner. 100 req will come in sooner than a 9th cp by late game. Yes, the ISU 152 was a beast in RL and should be one here, but it's completely out of scale with everything else. The King Tiger had the best anti-tank gun in the war and it takes 4 shots to kill a sherman here. For this thing to be twice as good as a KT (2 shots vs 4) at AT, roughly on par with the Tiger I at AI, have some fearsome armor to back it up, come at 8 cps, AND recallable makes it feel pretty rigged IMO unless the equally stupid Gwagen can do something about it (didn't waste my cash on ToV so I can't test that one).
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Yes. Look at the King Tiger. If we wanted realism, it should be able to blast shermans out with 1 or 2 hits......
But no, we'd still need balance, for afterall this is multiplayer.
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the 88 of a king tiger (superheavytank) should be able to one shot two shermans standing behind each other. Realism isn't the way CoH is made. the isu 152 is to strong OR far to cheap OR a bit of both AND should never be available more then once.
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well,IMO, just nerf its firepower,but incrase its reload time a little bit,
the speed of this beast should be incrased, and make him only can be call in
one in a game!
PS:why can't its main gun move left or right....either do other self-propelled weapons
Post Merge: January 23, 2010, 02:56:46 AM
well,IMO, just nerf its firepower,but incrase its reload time a little bit,
the speed of this beast should be incrased, and make him only can be call in
once in a game!
PS:why can't its main gun move left or right....either do other self-propelled weapons
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One-time expensive super unit like the KT? 3 is too many. Also, unsupported 1 or even two tanks can circle strafe it.
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It takes longr because the Germans are almost always at a tactical victory and gain CP's much faster than the Russians who often over run a position and the Germans retreat so they do not kill very much,
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the ISU152 should be like any other supertank in the game...500mp, 1time only call in. DONE.
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Why in hell would you try an engage a tank with a 152 mm barrel front on, flank it from behind win
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still, the difference shouldn't be that big, at least the tiger should make some more dmg, since the ISU-152 is based on the hull of the IS-2, which front armor was barely thicker than the Tigers.
Actually the IS-1 is what you are thinking of the IS-2 had the same armor thickness of the Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger Ausf. B. This being said the armor is fine as is because otherwise it would have to be a specialty call on ;)
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still, the difference shouldn't be that big, at least the tiger should make some more dmg, since the ISU-152 is based on the hull of the IS-2, which front armor was barely thicker than the Tigers.
Actually the IS-1 is what you are thinking of the IS-2 had the same armor thickness of the Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger Ausf. B. This being said the armor is fine as is because otherwise it would have to be a specialty call on ;)
What the hell are you talking man? Not true. The KT still goes on its own.
Actually, you can compare the IS-2 really more with a Tiger.
And its true that the IS-2 had thicker armour and a better styling.
But you cant say that bigger is better actually.
The armour of the tiger was really high quality, because high expensive molybdenum alloys were used and these were stepped and welded.
Anyways, this game is not about realism, its about balanced gameplay, so just think about what would be right and take some historical facts inside, the mixture will make it than.
2 the topic:
This ISU is really a huge monster with a awesome model. You should just need 5 points (to make it more compareable to KT and JagdP.) to call it than for 500 just for once/game.
The shot should be weakened as well, but just a bit, 'cause of its really bad firerate.
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I'm not sure but I've seen double isu on the field so it looks like you can call in two (I'm not sure as I haven't played as soviets much but can't beat them as any axis combo well expect the players who try to figure out what's what) I've did some testings though lol I've build 4 panthers and bring the normal tiger in (all vet3) the other guy bring two is2 and one isu I think that with the 5 to 3 advantage I should be able to take them out at least (even in just frontal confrontation) but... after couple of shots it turns out that the panthers gonna disapear soon so I start to circle strafe that shit (imagine panther is sherman and the isu is kt) when he saw that he dig in with his is2 (yeah they can dig in) I've turn the blitzkrieg on so imagine how many allies armour can 4 panthers/tiger took out with blitzkrieg activated. I won the engagement finally after couple of minutes of tanks shooting while soviets just digin and shoot and panthers are running around to try to delay the next shoot (yeah he change targets when the circling panthers geting near the other that just stay and shoot) Imagine that the soviets get 2xisu and 3xis2... there is nothing on the wehr side that can beat this (it's just theory as such situations won't happend in real games but still).
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And also Tiger 1 is a old and obsolete design compared to ISU-152.
blablabla these kinda stupid comments make me want to punch a baby in the face -.-
EVEN IF the Tiger's vetical armor was already outdated at that time, but we are speaking about the 88mm kwk against soviet armor, and this gun was still one of the most powerful anti tank guns of this time! the 88mm could deal with any enemy tank on the battlefield in WW2: THERE WERE NO ENEMY TANKS ON THE BATTLEFIELD WHICH COULD NOT BE PENETRATED BY THE 88mm GUN! And the IS-2 was not invincible to the 88mm as well!
Well, the ISU-152 is supposed to hunt 'animals" like tiger/panther etc.
BS where did you get this from, The ISU-152 was designed and used as a damn artillery piece and not a tank destroyer. It was only nicknamed tiger hunter by some crews who LUCKILY killed a tiger with a lucky shot when the Tiger were hit on the roof causing penetration by the heavy 152mm shell. but every other artillery gun could do the same impact to Tigers and panthers. they ahd only 10mm armor on the roof, every artillery shell could penetrate it, the ISU-152 was nothing special.
I'm pretty sure there were also some Tigers killed by the M7 priest US. artillery, did they call it a tiger hunter? NO. because it is needless.
this only proves how propagandistic the Soviets were.
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ISU is designed to kill panthers and tigers, so why to counter it with them?
Please don't make it once in the lifetime unit, rather reduce its hitpoints, armor or/and rotation speed.
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The armour of the tiger was really high quality, because high expensive molybdenum alloys were used and these were stepped and welded.
Things were directly opposite - in autumn 1943 Germans lost Earst Ukraina with its molibdene, and after that german designers HAD to increase thickness of panzer to keep it capable. In late Tigers and Panthers, as Jagdpanthers and Jagdtigers - armour had a really crappy quality.
What was a result?
Germans had a USELESS, BLIND and ALWAYS-SOMETHING-BREAKING 70 tonn!!! monster Kingtiger :)
BTW: ISU-152 was WIDELY used as a heavy tankhunter, and Tiger I ahd no chance to survive under direct fire of ISU-152: 48,9 armour-piercing shell usually cut-off a turret of ANY german tank, crash a FRONT armour.
But usually "heavy-tank killer" is in stream of hunting for digged/hidden german tanks and other armored AT guns.
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Guyssss where the F*CK do you get this shit from???
I'm getting SICK of this BS it seems the internet gets flooded by this propaganda crap!
According to all known official sources, the ISU-152 was just a damned self-propelled gun as many others in WW2, which maybe killed some Tigers with a happy lucky shoot. but it was NOT a counter to the Tiger, nor Panther or any other german tank!
the T34/85 and IS-2s were the ONLY deisgned vehicles to counter the Tigers and Panthers direct. that's it!
and the ISU152 was not the only artillery gun which killed a few tigers by a lucky shoot, everey artillery piece could do this. but it happened rarely. more tigers were killed by T34/85s or SU85s than by artilleries fact!
Germans had a USELESS, BLIND and ALWAYS-SOMETHING-BREAKING 70 tonn!!! monster Kingtiger :)
LOL the King Tiger had the best optics, periscopes and sights for a heavy tank during WW2! ONLY on the cupola it had 7 periscopes for a 360° view so the tank commander could watch the battleield from the inside where it was safe. Most Russian tanks didn't even have a cupola with periscopes on the turret at this time HAHA!
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:)You are funny guy :)
Dont hear from You about molibdene and exellent larte german armour :)
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Great job there guys!
But Soviet is OP, it should be fixed. Maybe at least their tansk, are to strong for such little price. And IS-2 should maybe be special like tiger/pershing? way to powerfull for panther, and panther is to expensive to die vs is-2 like that.
Every thing else is great job!
Will there be in near future Japan,Italy(LOL) romenia, ukraina, bulgaria or even NDH on side of germans? That would be nice! Just thought! :)
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:)You are funny guy :)
Dont hear from You about molibdene and exellent larte german armour :)
please speak english i don't undertsand your weird language...
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isu 152 is a self-propelled gun , it is useless to destroy tanks. the best tank destroyer of russia is SU 100. 152 mm can bigger than 100 mm but it is much slower velocity and cant penetrate tiger or panther's armor. but with great explosion 152 mm ammo can damage the tanks turret or confused the crews in tanks.
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...because high expensive molybdenum alloys were used
You didnt answer - how did they "used" molibdenum, if Germany had no molibdenum deposits in 1944-45? :) Germany lost Donbass, and lost most part of its molibdene.
From the beginning of 1944, germans had to disign 50-70tonn monsters with 150-200mm thick armour because of its very bad quality. "Late german" 200mm armor was weaker than 120-140 armour of latest Allyed tanks had.
Do You ever read Allied and Soviet test reports about "high" quality of Konig Tiger armor?
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Actually the IS-1 is what you are thinking of the IS-2 had the same armor thickness of the Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger Ausf. B. This being said the armor is fine as is because otherwise it would have to be a specialty call on ;)
What the..? Where did you get this ridiculous BS from? The IS-2 had 120mm maximum armor frontal at 30-60° sloped!
While the Tiger II B had 180mm frontal! A HUGE difference of 60mm thickness!
In the picture below you can see an original construction plan of the IS-2m tank, the latest upgraded version in 1945!
Anything else you want to know?...
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fuck the tanks you're not going to survive that long against good soviet, the early game need the attention 1st as it's now your first fighting unit (whatever will it be) +2pios against 7 of them who are capable of fighting and well will take your pios in no time. So the first 2 minutes looks like you trying to capture some sectors near your base luckily you suppress and kill couple of them but he loose less for building another units than you're going to spend on reinforce your own troops...