Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Strategy and Tactics => Topic started by: luz777 on January 23, 2010, 01:04:12 AM
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At the moment PE seem like the side that has most trouble dealing with the Red Army, so post up your strategies to help out other members of the Kampfgruppe who are having trouble :)
My very basic advice is, MP44's and Marder III's are your best friends, Panther Battlegroup is also a lifesaver and if used right can help swing the game in your favour.
Anyone else?
Cheers
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The best strategy for PE right now is to exit the game and reroll as Wehr. Seriously though, in a 1v1 game, the odds are stacked super heavy against PE. Probably the best bet is to go Luft and throw down a Wirbelwind as soon as you can, but that takes 4 CP's so it's not really ideal, but at least you'd have the flak turret to tide you over until then. Depending on the size of the map, a very early halftrack rush into the Red base might work, that way you can stop the terror of the PTRDs/Snipers before they become unbeatable. Things not to do are scout car/armor car spam, as they will almost certainly be blobbed or anti-tank owned. The standard PE blob will also get Rick roll'd by snipers so that isn't an option either.
Overall, the only way I see PE winning right now is if there is a significant gap in skill between the players, in favor of Axis.
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Aye, that was the idea of the thread. Just to scrape together any amount of knowledge that might help out.
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flak cannons
flak cannons
and flak cannons
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die to mortars way to easily.
i see no way to win with pe in a 1v1 vs a guy who has a at least tiny bit of micro
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I have the best experiences made with the G43. Then the Russians fall like a fly.
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G43s, MP44s, Schrecks, and support in the form of Marders and halftracks (reinforcement AND suppression).
Not much else to say, really.
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I don't know about 1v1, but in 2v2 PE kicks ass if you are playing with wher. (Even though I have only played skrimish so far ::)).
Choose luftwaffe or tank destroyer. Luftwaffe because soviet has the only units in the entire game that actually gets pwned hard by luftwaffe infantry (:o). And the flak cannon can destroy mostly ANY of the soviet tanks. (marders help too) wirbelwind cannons are also good, but the wirbelwind tank gets destroyed pretty quickly if the soviets got tanks or AT.
Tank destroyer because of the jagdpanther, it kills any IS-2 or SU-tanks, but keep it covered with some repair-men. And the duble-shreck is overkill against soviet tanks. put two upgunned tank-buster squads together, and they destroy a t34 in their first shot. also teller mines are quite effective.
also remember to get shrecks as quickly ass possible, since soviet tanks come quickly. and when you play against a soviet blob, your units levels like hell, and pesky conscripts can't harm elite-troops 8). And always remember that a mortar halftrack can fire-bomb a blob into oblivion.
and when I have played, I have always got pushed back to my base, but manged to counterattack and win.
AND WATCH OUT FOR IL-2s!!!
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I have to agree with the Marder tactic, but that becomes useless once they spam IS-2s and T34s with lots of unupgraded conscripts supporting them.
I don't upgrade my conscripts so i can make full use of the population for tanks.
Mortar halftracks are really useful. I wouldn't rely on the motorcycle tactic though, because i saw 5 (unupgraded)conscript squads take down 3 motorcycles by rushing them.
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1on1 pe just can't win,no way...
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and when I have played, I have always got pushed back to my base, but manged to counterattack and win.
AND WATCH OUT FOR IL-2s!!!
Same here. It seems you just can´t win against infantry spam without MP44s, so you will be pushed back until you get those.
Also, Marder spam does work. They are cheap enough that you can get as many as possible, and lock them down to receive T-34 attacks. If you have a cloaked Ketten forward, you give them extra range.
I strongly recommend, though, that you place one Marder in a flanking position so it will get side-shots at the T-34s if they try to flank the one you place in the center of your main line of defense.
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Haven't played 1v1 with PE yet, but 2v2 combined with wehr they got some invaluable units. However all of this assumes you got a wher player baking you up with HMGs. Also the map I play mostly is kursk.
So this is what I usually do:
1: Go luftwaffe:
If you're playing with high resources, the luftwaffe infantry will help balancing the numbers out a little bit.
The kettengrad cloak to scout for marders and mortar halftrack.
The wirbelwind provides a good alternative to the P4, which makes it possible to get marders and anti-infantry before they get their T34.
2: get a mortar halftrack. It does wonders against the masses of conscripts and engies that form early game, especially when they bunch up in trenches like the ones on kursk. It will also take care of anti-tanks and mortars, which is especially effective against the soviets because they can't recrew them.
3: After the MHT, go straight for schreks or marders. Marders are really effective for once. Since you can pinpoint the T34 through the fog of war it makes them easy to ambush using the marders full range (preferably with cloaked kettens spotting for them)
If all goes well and you don't loose your vehicles you should have you panthers on the field before they got their IS-2. If you still have your marder the IS-2 will have no chance against the panthers with it supporting them.
edit*
all these things do not take into account soviet players that exploit the balance issues :P Then you seem to be fucked no matter what.
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Ok, i just tried a 2v2 as PE (wehr team-mate) vs. a Soviet + US team. We DOMINATED them.
PE is probably the BEST faction to use against Soviets, as their infantry just MAULS them horribly. Literally, i just left a single G43 squad behind green cover, and killed about a dozen conscripts before loosing a single man.
Luft is definately the way to go, as everything about it is EPIC vs. Soviets. The Flak 36 just destroys early game soviet inf. and the 88 is just an area-of-denial system against soviet tanks. That thing just EATS T-34 tanks. (Ok, i left a ketten spotting for it.
As for ISU-152s, OK, they are harder to kill, and may be a bit OP. I mean, come on, they survive direct V1s (5% bug i think). Anyway, to kill them, use the henschle run. THe ISU-152 is to slow to get out of the area, so you can literally kill one for about 200 muni. In this game, they had TWO ISU-152 tanks on the field at once (i thought it was hard capped at 1), and I literally got them both down to 5% health in a single strafing run. My team-mate then called in a firestorm, and killed them both (well, the last henchle shot tied the firestorm on the 2nd ISU).
By far, soviet tanks are NOT OP vs. PE. Finally, PE is actually a VERY good faction to play :P
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Finally, PE is actually a VERY good faction to play :P
I NO, RITE?
After playing the OMG mod for ages, I could not go back to vCoH because the tech race murdered me. Now, I can play PE and have micro count as much as tech when playing against the Sovs!
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what do u do if they just spam enginers? and go straight for tanks?
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what do u do if they just spam enginers? and go straight for tanks?
That's the million dollar question Fallen and regrettably you can do nothing. Wehr has a fighting chance against the Ingenery flame spam, but PE will always get obliterated by it if the Sov player knows what they are doing. The strats posted here are all pretty good though, mostly. Except for the people saying that PE is excellent against Sov, because 1v1 it's not. If it is supported by Wehr, than they can bring some useful things to the table, but they can do nothing on their own.
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what do u do if they just spam enginers? and go straight for tanks?
Die. Until a patch.
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Duh PE Tank Destroyer of course. :P
IT"S THE SOVIETS!!! just get those Tank busters in teams of 2 and hiding behind buildings and not in them. T-34's mow down buildings as well.
Arm all squads with schrecks.
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until now i only had a lil chance to stand against them with tankbuster doctrine (early game) and scorched earth (late game) in combination with a good WM-player.
But 1vs1 y're down and out before you get somewhere in a doctrine tree: 2 sqds with doubble PS are ok vs T34; 2 sqds with single PS: forget it. The T34 blows half of yr sqd away with 1 shot, 2 PS aren't enough to get it down.
Before you have marders (watch the fuel need to built 1) they capped 75% of the map and there goes yr fuel....
No serious: PE vs Soviet is a slaugtherhouse-game for PE
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G43 Squads RAPE Soviet earlygame Infantry. Just get like 3 g43 squads and vet them with offensive vet - it's like 1 shot 1 kill :)
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until now i only had a lil chance to stand against them with tankbuster doctrine (early game) and scorched earth (late game) in combination with a good WM-player.
But 1vs1 y're down and out before you get somewhere in a doctrine tree: 2 sqds with doubble PS are ok vs T34; 2 sqds with single PS: forget it. The T34 blows half of yr sqd away with 1 shot, 2 PS aren't enough to get it down.
Before you have marders (watch the fuel need to built 1) they capped 75% of the map and there goes yr fuel....
No serious: PE vs Soviet is a slaugtherhouse-game for PE
TB seems to work on some maps. Ok try this.
PE>LUFTWAFFE DOC>2 LUFT TEAMs> Capture CP's that snake line to Fuel CPS> build VFlak to guard those Fuel CPS > Keep luft teams close to VFLak (incase they get artied early on)> Adjust the rest to taste
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cover vs cover PE infantry rapes conscripts. Much more than if both were on an open field.
I had 2 luftwaffe squads fending off 3 or 4 conscript squads in the trenches of kursk. Only one of mine died and he has to pull back after almost all his conscripts were dead.
The only problem is that damn command squad. Not only can he charge and call in free arty strikes, but he can one-shot Pgrens and luftwaffe in green cover while he himself stands in the open O_o
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the problem isn't the conscripts but the command sqd with their arty: they wait till the arty is ready, come closer and even before you can hit them from behind yr cover, they throw u some arty in yr neck
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If you are playing PE, the last thing you should have is immobile units. You don´t use HMGs or mortars, so none of your units should be caught in an artillery barrage.
The worst thing arty-wise I have faced as PE is heavy mortars which, if they get the drop on you, can obliterate whole squads in one shot. That one shot can kill you completely if it hits the bullseye.
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Just as a theory, but if you are picking the PE, go for the scorched earth doctrine. Make your way to the hummel and grab the super tank barrier (it will only be able to be destroyed with explosives). Pick a narrow path, lay down the tank barrier, and have your hummels in range soo that any russain units that are going down the path will get obliterated. Now for the tanks (fear the Is-2 and the IS-152) the Russians have I figure using the At halftrack or upgrade the Panzer greandier with the Panzershreck. Its an idea. Haven't tested it yet.
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G43 Squads RAPE Soviet earlygame Infantry. Just get like 3 g43 squads and vet them with offensive vet - it's like 1 shot 1 kill :)
yeah I noticed that when playing my friend on a THREE FREAKIN hour battle
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Rush an assortment of panzer grenadiers equipped with a variety of weapons and all upgrades.
G43s for long/medium range
StG44 for close range
Shreck for AT
Just watch out for Katyushas, Snipers, and Morats
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I got done playing as the PE against the Soviet Union on the map Lyon (it was an AI, not a computer) I went for the ammo, building Panzer-grenadiers and capturing points as fast as i could.I picked tank destoyer and went quickly to get Hetzers on the field. after a few skirmishes with level two Russian units and a command group, i got control over three of the major bridges. i upgraded a couple of my Panzer grenadier with the Panzershreck and G-43s. I sent two units of Grenadiers on the right most bridge, and capture their ammo site. With a Hetzer, I destroyed most of their buildings. i sent a second in to help destroy the Hq, but then the Ai spammed on the Ingerys. they sent Conscripts into my land using the open bridge. i manage to get 4Cp by the two hetzers just mowing down the Ingergy to get the Jagdpanther. I left the game because i was just tired, so the best advice is to prevent the Russians getting to you, and then send a team of armored units to harass their HQ.
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against ISU-152 or IS-2 you only need one ATHT and one Marder...
tread-breaker -> ISU-152 get a Marder behind it and kill it without any problems
tread-breaker -> IS-2 and shoot it with a Marder (Marders have a higher range than IS-2s)
and against inf use off vet G43.... 5 squads with 4 man and some upgrades will slay the soviets down
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Frustrating against the soviets with PE. I had played two matches with my friend and this was the results:
1. I went to straight to MP44-s, I pushed back his commie ass back, until the AA tanks rolled out, and killed most of my men, dominated the map. In this point you haven't really much anti tank units, that really effective to the most tanks. Frankly, the AA tank destroyes the AT Halftrack, and laughing as it's do.
2. Went to Halftracks. There was a large infantry blob, and lost of the HTs. A P4 comed Handy, but that time, my opponent got T34/84's and I got a headache.
So, I think its a bit unbalanced for PE, I'll wait for the next patch, and play as Wehrmacht.
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Frustrating against the soviets with PE. I had played two matches with my friend and this was the results:
1. I went to straight to MP44-s, I pushed back his commie ass back, until the AA tanks rolled out, and killed most of my men, dominated the map. In this point you haven't really much anti tank units, that really effective to the most tanks. Frankly, the AA tank destroyes the AT Halftrack, and laughing as it's do.
2. Went to Halftracks. There was a large infantry blob, and lost of the HTs. A P4 comed Handy, but that time, my opponent got T34/84's and I got a headache.
So, I think its a bit unbalanced for PE, I'll wait for the next patch, and play as Wehrmacht.
Did you get a mortar halftrack? In my experience that is the single best unit against the soviets early game (with Pgren support of course) and usually it will rack up 30-40 kills. Helps keep the soviet low on manpower, slowing their teching down and that should give you time to get a marder or schreks.
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Aye on the mortar halftrack idea. As a Soviet player I've had headaches with my Conscripts being decimated by those things; Tank Hunters can threaten them but the PE can counter them with Panzergrenadiers.
With the Soviets lacking the ability to rush T2 and swarm tank hunters (and without the broken Ingy rush), the PE stands a decent chance now. Major Soviet headaches include:
* aforementioned MHTs. Incendiary shells = Soviet blob death.
* Pgrens in cover with upgraded weapons - Conscripts die to MP44s very, very fast
* Marders. Oh God, Marders. About the only thing Sovs can do is to push fast with Tank Hunters, but properly supported Marders can survive long enough.
And there's the OpFor's perspective. Who says the Sovs are OP?
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Just use a panzer 4 Infantry support tank, that thing mangles all soviet infantry
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I prefer 2v2 so this may not work with 1v1. So far the best start i have found is 3 units upgraded to g43. Get the extra squad member early asap. This deals with most enemies, and if u can slow the command squad, it falls easily, which can really help since the soviet player cant call the arty with their command squad. This will usually get 3/4 command points for later. I never chose my command branch untill i see the enemy strategy.
Depending on my opponents strategy after this, i have found 2 main counters.
1) They go for mortars. I usually go for luftwafte then get the wirblewind to rush the mortars. Insta Screw (sometimes works with ac but not advised)
2) They try to pump out t34. I go for the hetzers which can really hurt t34 if u hold one back a bit to prevent flanking.
And since Sandyceasar asked ^^, i think with the most recent patch, soviets have become much less broken.
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Thanks guys, now I survived longer. ;)
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Quick question: how would you take the enemy base, while he has lots of AT guns with dual flame elite pios??? Whithot Artillery of course. That was in the endgame in our last match. think about: egi cost: 150MP+50 muni for fireworks, and AT gun is 300 vs (if you want some good offense) 1000 MP for two Panther and some Assault grens (360MP) or normal grens (255mp) + 75 muni for MP44-s. Its just Fakin'n impposible beat the red guys. It was with the luftwaffe doctrine.
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Build an 88 and use them to snipe the AT guns from beyond their range :p
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I did it, and the response was a mass pio attack :'( I miss the artillery from PE so good faction, but less arty support.It was a VERY long game and the end i was a bit tierd of seeing that massive pio attack. I made my dream faction check out my Ostheer suggestions. :D
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G43 infantry >>>> Russian inf... combine with 2 IHTs 1 MTH and a few MP44 squads and that pio rush is by by
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LENINGRAD TACTIC vs AI
If the russians bum rush the center island and you just can't breech their defences, use mortar halftracks. I used them to deadly effect, pounding the island with mortars and incendiaries. I use munitions halftracks with my mortar halftracks to keep the bombard options open whenever i need them.
Later, I got 2 HUMMEL SPAs. I put them on lockdown on the edge of my base and their range covered the entire map.
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_kxgiltGq1X1qzfrsgo1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0RYTHV9YYQ4W5Q3HQMG2&Expires=1265607900&Signature=NbgQIXU9cY2HRrzK9%2FzAMdEI4AQ%3D)
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That's just ridiculous...
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I think mortars are the best way to deal with soviet blobs in general.
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Russians seem to to quite well for close range (More chance of critical hits), so use G43s and Vet them only offensively, and use MP44s and vet them defensivly, go TD, get some Hetzers (If nessecary) and definitly get some Marders, but what ever you do DONT BLOB!!!! You never will need more than 4 squads (3 G43s and 1 STG44)
Use Armored Cars for Support and keep it BEHIND your infantry, and keep a HT safely behind your main force, P4s arent too good against Russians (Because the squads are too large), so you might be safer for using a Hotchkiss (Get nebels).
Get Panthers ASAP, the T34s are fast and will destroy your Marders and Hetzers. Use your Panthers wisely by having a Marder behind them, and lock it down. 2 Panthers and 1 Marder can defeat an IS2, 2 T34s, and an Upgunned T34, thats ALOT of Fuel and MP on thier side, and you may loose A panther and Marder, ALWAYS defensively Vet your Panthers, and Offensively Vet your Marder.
Ive never made a Mortar HT against Russians, they tend to get too close to your troops and they spread out too wide when they "Get on line" Scout Cars however are a critical if they use Snipers (Obviously). PE is a GREAT faction, you just need to know how to use em.
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Exactly as some of boys wrote before me, go for:
- 4xPG, 1-2xG43
- t2 IHT+MHT, later schrecks for Panthers
- t3 MP44, Marder, maybe AC (only kite and prevent recap)
- t4 PzIV or quick for 2x Panthers
MP44 rape all infantry, especially conscipts and inzenery. Group zeal is must if you see he's spamming infantry. Flame nades are good too, since russians can't retreat. If he goes for more armors, make schrecks and fast Panthers.
Keep your units together. Deny fuel as much as possible to stall his teching to fast T34s while as PE you will need this fuel a lot.
As doctrine I'm Scorched earth player which is good too again because of Hummel and Booby trap points (as said russians can't run quickly from traps). But also Tank hunters (Hetzer) or Luftwaffe (Wirbelwind) could work too depending on what you feel the opponent will play if Infantry or Armors.
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i was playing the PE on the map Lyon(1v1) against an easy soviet. here is what i did.
first, get tree Panzer grenadiers (P-G) to the bridges and upgrade them with either G-43 or Mp-44s. construct the Logistic building with a 4th P-G and get the vampire Halftrack. use the Kettengrad to capture the far fuel points. Deploy Goliath bombs on the two destructible bridges and blow them up.
Next, Get all the buildings built and upgrade your P-G squads to have 4 men, group zeal, etc. Choose the Luftwaffe tatic and get the ground troops to build defenses on the center bridge and on the far position. Deploy Fallshcmirjager behind the enemy lines by putting them in a building. Captrue as many resource position as you can safely and upgrade them with FG-42s.
Get the Panther tank upgrade and gather all your forces and rush their base. The enemy won't draw their forces back to they base (cause they are an easy army) so they can't build that many units to retailte your attack. Destroy the bunkers, barracks, tank hall, support, the armory and their Hq and it is game over.
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to do that, no need for PE ! defend one easy point is ... easy againt one easy IA ! then to complete your scheme put a tower near the bridge until detruction (vampire and 2 goliaths stays expensive ... a massive assault by the west bridge can do a passage for major PG assault ...
i call that training, maybe expert ia could be fun
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This Build Order might work:
4x Panzer Grenadier squads (Give all of them G43s)
Tier I
Scout Car(for the Ingenery and Conscripts, use to lock down fuel sectors)
Increase Squad Size
Tier II
Mortar Halftrack
Panzerschreck Upgrade
2 Tank Busters
Tier III
Group Zeal
Marder III Upgrade
Assault Grenadier Squad
Tier IV
PS Upgrade
Then activate panther battle group in headquarters
Call in 2 Panthers
This strategy is probably effective. This strategy does rely on having the high fuel points and getting the highest or higher fuel income possible than the Red Army. This is so that the Red Army is forced to be more careful on what they use their fuel on. Have higher fuel income, and use the Kettenkrad to harass their fuel supplies. This strategy and build order is best for Luftwaffe Tactics. For the IS 2 and ISU 152s, use the At Halftrack's ability that can immobilize tanks then the Henschel. For IS 2, you can use the At halftrack's ability, then use Tank Busters and Panthers.
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Regarding Marder IIIs: they're great, and absolutely vital for taking out Russian armor. But, never leave them unsupported!
As a Soviet player, I've been up against sniping Marders, often with an IHT or a panzergrenadier unit to provide anti-inf. Since they can out-snipe any armor units and since the Tank Hunters don't do so well once they're machine-gunned/suppressed, the solution is Red Banner Strelky rushing.
Two Red Banner infantry squads with the PPSh and using the Sprint to close the distance can steamroll over a single Assault Grenadier squad as if it weren't even there and can kill a halftrack in record time. Even worse, massed PPSh fire can actually penetrate the Marder's rear armor. With two squads, it's actually pretty easy to micro the inf. Even if one RBS squad dies or is forced to run away, it's a bad trade for the PE player because the Marder is much more valuable. So, always back up your Marder with lots of anti-infantry units, or you will lose it to regular Soviet infantry!
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anything anti inf is good versus Russians. I use Flack 88's, or AA guns, or the Whirblewhind. The Panzer IV on lockdown is good too.
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Here I tried to make a graphics PE vs Soviet tech guide. Enjoy!
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Excellent Wordsmith! ;D
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Excellent Wordsmith! ;D
Heh thanx :) I'm still working on Wehr vs Soviet tech graph and it is harder than I expected becuase if I want to test something in play noone will connect and I'm then forced to play PC skirmish which is useless for this... seems like everybody rather plays skirmishes than 1vs1 matches. I don't understand why not use smurf profile and it should be no problem for them and Soviet rank status is not recorded anyway.
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One of the problems with a Wehr tree like that is that there are SO MANY OPTIONS. It's not even FUNNY.
For nearly EVERY aspect, theres nearly 2 or more units for the purpose.
Arty
Mortar
Stuka
Nebelweffer
(Any doctrinal)
That's just a rough example of the diversity.
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Yes Wehr seems more complicated but after some thought and some plays there are certain rules which Wehr follows battling Soviet:
- MGs or Bikes, Volks
- later chooses T2 Pak38 if you see Soviet is getting too much fuel -> fast Tank Hall (+veterancy on inf or AT gun)
- or chooses T3 fast Puma if you see he made Support barracks and fuel is somewhat even (no veterancy, pull fuel to Pumas, Stugs)
- doctrines -> Defend if plays vet3 Grens, bunkers, 88mm
-> Blitz if plays T2, StuH42 later Tiger
-> Terror if plays T3, Pumas raid base + Firestorm, Later V1 or KingTiger
Hardest for Wehr seems to deal with fast T34 and/or with Infantry blobs unsuppresable when with Commander - and that is what I try to figure, because vs good players it's quite hard to counter those.
But this is not PE, should be different topic.
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Using tactics correctly, you can prevent that.
1 to 3 MGs behind a barrier of Mines, then Tank Traps, then Sandbags, easily suppresses the enemy, pins them. If they rush with the commander, they encounter the mines, plus they can't pass the sandbags anyway. So 85% of the time they'll be mowed down.
To help, I normally make what I call my Super Mortar. Generally, I have Pioneers build a half circle with a small entrance to protect from incoming gun fire. I then place minimum of 3 mortars, max of 5 in that location. Works quite well against infantry as the shells, if ordered to all barrage, they go in different directions. It cuts the enemies' escape off.
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mines aren't that helpfull. I would much rather save my munitions for off-map artillery, or other upgrades.
a combination of obstacles, mg's and mortars is the simplest way to combat infantry.