Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Suggestions => Ostheer Suggestions => Topic started by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 23, 2010, 05:54:47 PM

Title: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 23, 2010, 05:54:47 PM
Hi guys!
Today i present you my reworked Ostheer-concept. Most things are similar with the old concepts but i put in some new ideas! Hf with it!

+++ German Ostheer +++ Last conceptupdate: 01. Feb. 2010 +++

First of all:
NO JAGDTIGER and NO STURMTIGER.
Why? Thats really simple: Both units never fight against red army at eastern front. Sturmtiger fought against the polish rebels at Warsaw and so NOT at the eastern front
and Jagdtiger fought PERHAPS!!! ( 1 or 2 Tanks ) at Wien during the last 3 or 4 days of world war 2 in Europa; not very much for a faction who should represent the hole eastern front! So; No Jagdtiger, no Sturmtiger at this concept!

Headquarter
The HQ ist the mainbuilding. Here you can research technologies like:
- SdKfz. 9 Startunit
- First-Aid-Center ( HQ is able to heal units near the hq. ).

2nd HQ
Ostheer infantry is able to build up secondary HQs ( like the old Wehrmacht and US Army ) at neutral building. Here they can recrut all units form the "Infantriegefechtsstand".

The new way to build up this nation:
You research the SdKfz. 9 at the HQ. Now you can call in a SdKfz. 9.
This SdKfz. had the ability to build up in three different "Gefechtsstände" ( the productionbuildings ). The build up cost a number of resources.

– SdKfz. 9 
Build up to: Infanteriegefechtsstand, Panzergrenadiergefechtsstand, Panzergefechtsstand.



The Ostheer use a special new way to build their units. The Ostheer is able to switch its unit-pool between different battle-situations.
That means: each building had three unit-pools. One neutral unit-pool ( can be used all the time! ) and two special pools ( different form building to building! ).
After building the structure the player can recruit the neutral units. When he wants to build the specialunits, he had to research the upgrade, which needs time and resources! BUT when the battle-situation changes and the player needs the other specialunits he can get back to the building and research the other pool by an upgrade. But this will coast some researchtime and resources!
The special is that he can change the building upgrade all the time for any battlesituation.


What is special with this Ostheer?
Each unit had his own abilities which allows them
to do special operations. So just a good skilled
gamer will be able to use all this possibilities with
its full potential. 


INFANTERIEGEFECHTSSTAND/ Infantry command post:
Neutral Units:
- Landserzug
( 6 soldiers with 6xKar98 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karabiner_98k) )
The G43: replace 3x Kar98 with with 3x G43.
Handgranate: throw a granate.
Schützengraben: build a trench.
Sandbags: build sandbags.
Feldwebel: Landserzug get one more soldier, a feldwebel, with a Stg. 44 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stg_44), who influence the battleperformence of the squad.

Pool: Infanteriekampf - Infantrybattle ( Research Building-Upgrade )
- MG 42 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_42) Team

- Scharfschütze
( 1 Soldiers with StG 44 scoped - Rang lower then other snipers, but fire faster then other snipers! )
Binoculars: better view range.
Camouflage: Camouflage the sniper.

Pool: Schwere Waffen - heavy weapon ( Research Building-Upgrade )
- 7,5cm Infantriegeschütz 18 (http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Bilder/Infanteriegeschutze/lIG18-1.jpg)
( 5 Soldiers with 5x Luger Pistole 08 )
Indirect fire: Fires like a mortar with explosive-grenades.
Direct fire: Fires like an antitank gun with normal grenades - this grenades can damage light vehicles.

- Panzervernichtungstrupp
( 4 Soldiers with 2x Panzerschreck and 2x Luger Pistole 08 )
Reloadfocus: Tankdestroyerteam reload faster for a short period of time.
Schützengraben: build a trench.
Sandbags: build sandbags.


PANZERGRENADIERGEFECHTSSTAND/ Panzergrenadier command post:
Neutral Units:
- SdKfz. 231 Recontank
Speed!: For a short period of time SdKfz. 231 move faster.

- Panzergrenadiere
( 4 soldiers with 4xMP40 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_40) )
Extended magazines: Can fire more rounds before reloading.
Grenadeshower: Throw a lot of grenades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stielhandgranate)
Schützengraben: build a trench.

Pool: Unterstützungskampf - Supportweaponsbattle ( Research Building-Upgrade )
- Sturmpioneers
( 4 Soldiers with 2x Flamethrower, 2x MP40 )
Sprengpanzer Goliath: Build a small Goliath tank.
Run!: Sprint for a short period of time.
Mines: They can auto detect mines.
Schützengraben: build a trench.
Barbed wire: build barbed wire.
Sandbags: build sandbags.
Tank barriers: build czech hedgdogs.

- SdKfz. 251
First aid packets: heal nearby infantry
Reinforce: Infantry can reinforce nearby the SdKfz. 251.

Info: Can transport 10 Soldiers ( max. 2 squads ).


Pool: Abwehrkampf - Defensive battle ( Research Building-Upgrade )
- PAK 40 7,5cm
( 5 Soldiers with 5x Luger Pistole 08 )
Camouflage: Camouflage the antitank gun.

- 2cm Flak 38 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_cm_FlaK_30)
( 5 Soldiers with 5x Luger Pistole 08 )
„Abprotzen“: Crew directs gun into fireposition and is so no more able to move the gun but its accuracy is clear better!
„Aufprotzen": Gun is now mobile.

Info: The Flak is able to fire during movement but so it is hard to hit something.


Technology at the Panzergrenadieregefechtsstand:
- StuKa zu Fuß - SdKfz. 251 can be upgraded to "StuKa zu Fuß".
Batterie! Fire!: Fire a salve of 32cm Grenades.
- Flametank - SdKfz. 251 can be upgraded to
SdKfz. 251/16 "Flammenpanzerwagen".
Burn!: For a short period of time the Flammenpanzer had a higher weapon range.


PANZERGEFECHTSSTAND/ Panzer command post:
Neutral Units:
- Panzer III Ausf. J L/42
Panzergranate 40: Fire a Panzergrenade 40 which makes more damage then the normal tankgrenades.
Side armor: Upgrade Panzer III Ausf. J with Panzerschürzen.
7,5cm L/24 KwK: Upgrade Panzer III with 7,5cm KwK - better against "soft targets".

- Bergepanther (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergepanther)
German armor: Overrepair tanks.

 
Pool: Panzerkampf - Panzerbattle ( Research Building-Upgrade )
- Panther Ausf. A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther_tank)
Panzergranate 40/42: Fire a Panzergrenade 40/42 which makes more damage then the normal tankgrenades.

- Marder II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marder_II)
The Tracks!: Marder II destroyed the tracks of enemy tanks.


Pool: Infanterieabwehrkampf - Infantrybattle ( Research Building-Upgrade )
- StuG III Ausf. G
Side armor: Upgrade StuG with Panzerschürzen.

- Sturmpanzer Brummbär
Observer: Upgrade Brummbär with an Scherenfernrohr (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scherenfernrohr) for higher view range.
Side armor: Upgrade Brummbär with Panzerschürzen.



DOCTRINS




Heeresunterstützungsverbände ( Army support troops )

Luftwaffeneinsatz ( Airforcemission ):

- 7. Flieger-Division
Call in a squad Fallschirmjäger.
( 4 soldiers with 2x FG42, 2x G43 )
Geballte Ladung: throw a satchel charge.
Sprint!: Sprint for a short period of time. Can't be pinned down.
Fanaticism!: Higher weapon damage when a squad member is killed by the enemy!

- Luftversorgung ( Airsupport )
He 111 Air supply plain flies fuel, munition and weapons into the battlearea.

- StuKa Einsatz ( StuKa Attack )
For a short peroid of time Ju 87 StuKas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ju_87) fly over the battlefield and attack every enemy spotted.

schwere Heeres-Panzerbateilung ( heavy tankgroup ):

- prioritized Support
For a short period of time Ostheer produce more resources.

- prioritized weapons
For a short period of time Ostheer produce units faster.

- sHeeresPzAbtl 503 "Feldherrnhalle"
Call in a heavy Tiger II henschel-turret.
FEAR!: Enemy infantry run away!
TERROR!: For a short period of time Tiger II makes more weapon damage.

Info: You can call it again after destruction!

Heereseliteverbände ( Army's elite troops)

Heereselitedivision ( Army's elite division ):

- Grenadiere "Großdeutschland"
Call in a squad of Grenadiere "Großdeutschland".
( 4 Soldiers with 3x StG44, 1x LMG42 )
Grenedesshower: throw a lot of grenades.
Firegrenadesshower: throw a lot of firegrenades.
Long Range Combat: Switch StG44 on long range modus for better long range battle performance ( 1 bullet fire mode ).
Short Range Combat: Switch StG44 on short range modus for better short range battle performance ( continuous fire mode ).

- Panzerartillerie "Großdeutschland"
Call in a PzSfl. II "Wespe".
Smokegrenades: Fire smokegrenades. When such a grenade hit an enemy tank this tank is "blind" ( viewrange near to 0 ).

- Division "Großdeutschland"
This will replace the Panther with the Tiger I spätes Baulos of the heavy Kompanie of the Panzergrenadierdivision "Großdeutschland".

Info: You can just have 2 Tiger I at the battlefield at the same time.
Info: Tiger I nearly so strong like JS II ( same level! ).

sHeeresJgPzAbtl ( heavy tank hunter group ):

- Panzervernichtungsschlacht
Every infantry unit can use the Panzerfaust.

- Motorisierung! ( motorized! )
The 7,5cm PAK and the 2cm Flak 38 get mobile.
Replace 7,5cm PAK 40 with Panzerjäger 7,5cm Pak 40 Raupenschlepper Ost.
Replace 2cm Flak 38 with SdKfz. 7/2 ( 3,7cm Flak 37 ).

- sHeeresPzJgAbtl 654
Call in a Jagdpanzer Ferdiandt (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdpanzer_Ferdinand).
The Elefant: Upgrade Ferdinand with a frontal-MG 34.
FEAR!: Enemy infantry run away!
TERROR!: For a short period of time Elefant makes more weapon damage.

Info: You can just call ONE Ferdinand per game!


Festungsverbände ( Fortress troops )

Abwehrschlacht ( Defending battle ):

- Festungsbau
Sturm Pioneers are able to build heavy defense like MG-Nest, Anti-Tank-Bunker, Anti-Air-Bunker,  and minefields.

It is a bunker with an anti-air-gun ( 2cm Flak 38, 2cm Quadgun or 3,7cm Flak 18 ) on it. One side it can fight against fighters and on the other side it will protect infantry against airstrikes.
A small bunker with a 37mm Pak 36 Heeresanklopfgerät (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3.7_cm_Pak_36). The reason: By Hitler all weapons for fortification with a caliber over 5cm should transport to western front in 1944.
-> Bunkers can be garrison by Infantry ( e.g. MG 42 Team ).

- Festungskampf ( Fortification battle )
Second HQs can still produce units when they get cut of by supply.

- 10.5cm leFh 18/40 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10.5_cm_leFH_18/40)
Call in a leFh 18.
Smokegranates: Fire a salve of smokegranate. If such a grante hits a tank, the tank is blind for a period of time!
Direct Fire!: With this ability the leFh 18 can fire directly on targets like an anti-tank gun. So it is extremly effectiv against any unit! )


Kampfgruppenverband ( Battlegroup combat ):

- Stadtkampf ( Towncombat )
Infantry get combat bonus ( better range, more damage ) when they fight form cover or out of buildings.

- Durchbruch! ( Breakthrough! )
For a short period of time tanks cant get critical hits and infantry cant pinned down. Tanks and infantry move faster!

- Der Gigant! ( the Giant! )
Call in a ME 323 glider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_323) ( a little bit bigger then Hamilcar so that Giant can land ;) ) which transports 2 squads of Stoßtruppen and a Marder II.
The Stoßtruppen: Giant can produce a squad of Stoßtruppen.
The Marder: Giant can produce a Marder II.

- Stoßtruppen
( 4 Soldiers with 4x StG44 )
Camouflage: Unit is invisiblefor the enemy.
Magnetmine: Unit can use a magnetic mine against armored enemies.


captured weapons
Beutwaffen:
The Ostheer isnt able to use heavy weapons of the red army because german steel is better then this red stuff!

Sectorprotection
Sektorensicherung:
The Ostheer secured resources by their dominance. That means: More soldiers in a territory will prodruce more resources, but their must be a limit, because of the balance!

Veterancy:
Veterancy will be gained by productiontime. A units which is build up for a longer time had more time to get training with their weaponsystem. So units with long production times had a high veterancy.
You can decide at your HQ ( 4 buttons ):

Horrido!
A Concept by Lord Rommel
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 23, 2010, 06:31:58 PM
I like it some really good and even better new ideas.Is the giant something like the British Hamilcar ? And what is 1. the supporter tank and what the allrounder tank ?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 23, 2010, 06:37:56 PM
I add a link for the ME 323.

And what do u mean with support tank and allrounder?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 23, 2010, 06:50:27 PM
a tank to kill infantry and support your infantry and one tank to do a little of everything .
The giant does the same like the Hamilcar or not ?With the same animation ?
I like your ideas about Veterancy and sektorensicherung.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 23, 2010, 06:58:01 PM
Panzer III can deal with enemy infantry and Panther, too.
So Panzer III should be a kind of multirole medium tank, Panther a heavy tank which survives a number of anti tank weapons hits, Marder II is a tank destroyer which is easy to destroy for infantry, StuG III is a tank destroyer too but can defend itself better against infantry with its 2x MG34 and the Brummbär is an real infantrykiller.

So u could get the combination of:
Panzer III - Panther - Marder II
or
Panzer III - StuG III - Brummbär.

So both unit pools had a special focus.
1. combination -> effective against armor.
2. combination -> effective against infantry and fortifications.

If the enemy had a lot of tanks, you will chose unitpool 1 - the Panzerbattle-pool.
If the enemy had a lot of infantry, you will chose unitpool 2 - the Infantrybattle-pool.

About the ME 323: This glider land on the field and after it it opens it gates and the units will leave the ME 323 giant ( like the british hamilcar ).
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 23, 2010, 07:05:41 PM
That sounds great.
Whats about a mobile pak? I think at a nashorn/hornisse.
Have you something to transport infantery ?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 23, 2010, 07:16:22 PM
I think Pak 7,5cm and Marder II are enough anti tank power ;) And if u need more, chose the Heereseliteverbände ( Army's elite troops ) and u can call in the might Elefant tank hunter.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 23, 2010, 07:24:11 PM
I miss some halftracks in your concept.There are just tanks and almost no vehicle.
Somethink to transport infantry, with special abilities.
The sektorensicherung is a good idea maybe it can be make so that some units produce more resources then others .In this case the maultier would be a good option.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 23, 2010, 07:30:09 PM
SdKfz. 9 and  Sdkfz. 251 are halftracks.
I think to include other halftracks does not make sense because why do u need e.g. a Opel Maultier halftrack? No combatvehicle, just "support" and so on.

When i include a Opel Maultier for getting more resources than my sectorprotection-idea is senseless because than the Opel Blitz would nearly work like PE's SdKfz. 221!

But i think in my concept you need to build the Sdkfz. 251 because it is a important supportweapon for your infantry.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 23, 2010, 07:32:24 PM
The original sdkfz 251 could transport 10 men , what about yours ?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 23, 2010, 07:32:46 PM
Dont know. 10 soldiers xD

SdKfz. 251 should be able to transport infantry but i thought that was clear ^^
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 23, 2010, 07:39:09 PM
Have you got a scout an conqueror unit ?
A tank(panzer 2) for this would be something new , but it could be too mighty.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 23, 2010, 07:51:14 PM
 :)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 23, 2010, 07:56:34 PM
sorry it is my English , but even Google does not know recon. It is quite a lot for a unit (supporter,transporter,scout)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 23, 2010, 07:58:43 PM
Ah. Okay. Sry. Didnt know this. thought most CoH-gamers know "recon" from reconnaissance and that is the military word for scouting ;) But i'm surprised that google.com doesnt know the word RECON xDDD

So i had a scouting tank -> SdKfz. 231
and a trooptransporter -> SdKfz. 251  ;D
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: BATTERIES on January 23, 2010, 09:10:52 PM
It s actaully the best thread ive seen so far ;)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 24, 2010, 10:16:57 AM
I agree.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Venoxxis on January 24, 2010, 04:53:29 PM
Totally amazing Lord Rommel.
To build buildings with a SdKfz. was just what i was thinking about in the concept i wanted to write for my doc's. But you were faster :p - there is no reason why i should create another ostheer concept atm, because you got really on the whole great ideas. And whats also important, you got a great knowlegde over the 2nd ww.

Good work!

Only thing i gotta criticize is that there is no real artillery doctrine yet, i think as the first german faction that the Ostheer DO need something like that. 
I mean a Wespe is cool one and also historical correct, for being often used for example. But playing with it in other mods for example is kinda boring, maybe because of its marder like look. Also, it would just be another 105mm artillary. The Ostheer had greater stuff than that and stuff like this should be used.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 24, 2010, 05:00:14 PM
Sure; it is "just" the Wespe. I though about weapons like the sFh 18 or bigger but i decide me against this "heavy" weapon because this weapons had to be in a emplacement and i'm an enemy of this emplacements because i will move my weapons when russian arty make "rabbatz" at my frontlines ^^

But i will think about replace the LeFh 18/40 with a sFh 18 emplacement or something like that.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Aouch on January 24, 2010, 06:24:51 PM
Nice concept and much better than your first one.

Just two little thoughts:
Pzgrens are better called Sturmtruppen or Stoßtruppen, MP40 + trenches are usually part of an assault unit who "work" without tanks. I think it fits better than "Panzergrenadiere".
Second, why has the Ferdinand/Elefant the "Fear"-ability? The first versions didn't even have a MG to defend itself vs infantry attacks. Ruskies could easily run towards it and plant their charges.
I think the Königstiger is a much more dreadful tank than the Elefant, seeing it from the outlook of an infantry man.
 
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 24, 2010, 07:19:23 PM
About the Panzergrenadiers:
Last moths i read a book about the Panzergrenadierdivision "Großdeutschland" and the author ( a soldier of the PzGrenDiv. GD ) use often a very distinctive sentence: ,,Wer gräbt, hat mehr vom Leben!" - ,,Who dig, will live much longer!" and so i think it is quiet good when all german soldiers can dig in because russian artillery wont separate between normal Landsern, Panzergrenadiers or Stoßtruppen ;)

About the Ferdinand:
The Fear-factor is not conditioned by an MG or not. It is the tank! Imagine; you are siting in a trench, artillery around you and then an "earthquake", the noise of screaming steel and see from the level of the ground this hugh, thick, 65t heavy Ferdinand-Monster! I would be afraid and try to run away :-X MG or Not!

And at the moment i'm not sure if i'll put in the Ferdinand ( so without MG ) or the Elefant ( with MG ). Both were used at the eastern front and some Elefant make the way till germany 1945 ( think last Elefant were destroyed near Brandenburg ).

;)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: cephalos on January 25, 2010, 11:06:16 AM
As far I remember Elefants took part only in battle of Kursk. Then they were sent to Italy.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 25, 2010, 12:02:59 PM
No. Thats wrong ;)
Ferdinand were used at the 653. and 654. schwere Heeres-Panzerjägerabteilung. After the battle of Kusrk ( first combat ) both Abteilungen were send back to germany where Ferdinand get his front-MG ( and a number of other modifications ) and the new name ELFEFANT. After this the 653. sHeeresPzJgAbtl. was send at Italy. 654. rested at the eastern front and fight e.g. during the battle of Nikopol ( under the command of Heeresgruppe Süd ).
A few Elefants managed the way back to germany and fight from February 1945 till the end under the command of Heeresgruppe Weichsel or better under command of Heeres-Panzerjäger-Kompanie 614.
Two Elefants fight during the battle of Berlin at the ruins of the Reichshauptstadt.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: machz on January 25, 2010, 07:42:30 PM
Quote from: Lord Rommel on January 23, 2010, 07:58:43 PM
Ah. Okay. Sry. Didnt know this. thought most CoH-gamers know "recon" from reconnaissance and that is the military word for scouting ;) But i'm surprised that google.com doesnt know the word RECON xDDD

So i had a scouting tank -> SdKfz. 231
and a trooptransporter -> SdKfz. 251  ;D

i like the teching system and the veterancy system as well very well done thats a very creative way to go with a faction that could work

question about the teching? so what your saying is you can only choose 1 pool at a time for your units right? that means if you no longer need infantry and fortifications support because he is spamming armor, do you have to tech again for battle tanks? and then if it changes again, tech back to the other pool?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 25, 2010, 09:51:19 PM
YES  ;D

The idea is that the pool should influence your battle style and the enemy's battle style.

At the moment i decided that u have to pay resources when u want to change the pool because when u dont have to pay anything then the pool idea is senseless.
So either u pay resources like manpower, fuel or/and munition or research time.

Without costs or payment the pools are senseless ^^
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: imamortician on January 25, 2010, 10:04:36 PM
nice thread guys. your forgeting a few units that the germans made a lot of use on the east.

The elefant for instance did not fight for very long on the eastern front as it was so heavy with most of them being sent to Italy. The Nashorn would be a much more suitable choice for a german ostheer. It has armour similar to the marder III tank hunter but is equiped with the same 88 from the JagdPanther.

Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 25, 2010, 10:16:35 PM
Oo I'm confused!?
I told a few numbers of post before that Elefant fight most time from 1943 till the end at the eastern front.
sHeeresPzJgAbtl. 654. was all the time at the eastern front ( okay; after Kursk they send wave of wave of the Elefants at germany to modified them but the wave was send when the last wave was back at the front ) and fight all the time with Elefants ( okay. They hadnt often the normal strength of 45 Elefants but they HAD Elefants ) and bacause of this and because of the symbolic value i'm FOR the Elefant.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: imamortician on January 25, 2010, 10:22:47 PM
ah thats a common misconception. They did fight there but they mostly faught against the western allies. I could understand a call in, in the same way the tiger II/ jagdpanther is. its just as a mobile tank hunter the Nashorn was far more common on the Eastern Front.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 25, 2010, 10:35:08 PM
No!?
A number around 40 Elefants fight against the western allies and a number around 40 fight against the russians.
Both Units which were equipped with Elefants were
build up by the SAME Kriegsstärkenachweis ( KStN - Unit-organisation-plan )...so the argument: Elefant fight more against western allies is WRONG ;)

Belief me xD All this stuff ( army and military history ) is my hobby xDD
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Aouch on January 26, 2010, 12:17:11 AM
I'm also for adding the Elefant.
Just like Lord Rommel mentioned, it's a unit with symbolic value.

You can't put every unit/vehicle which fought at the Eastern Front into the Eastern Front mod.
In my opinion, it's exactly the same as for foreign units: Nazi Germany had a lot of allies with them, but you can't put every freaking fucked up country in there. Remember the guy constantly crying for those Spanish who really doesn't differ from "normal" German Grenadiers.  ::)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: imamortician on January 26, 2010, 12:38:24 AM
didn't mean to be obnoxious. the elefant definately has a historical and asthetical value that would simbolise a german army. Was just thinking out load so to speak.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 26, 2010, 03:07:31 PM
I think a nashorn would be more sensefull , because it was more effective then the elefant , maybe you could use it as a distance pak , but on the other side a elefant would be more spectacular.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 26, 2010, 07:36:07 PM
The sHeeresPzJgAbtl. 653 destroyed nearly 1000 tanks and a unknown number of anti-tank guns during their eastern front deployment  ;) This are all numbers and numbers xD

In my opinion the symbolic value is much stronger because when u work with "popular literature" and other "light military journals" ( i hope u understand xD ) u will most found something about the Ferdinand at the eastern front then about Nashorn.

Perhaps later one someone will finde a place for the Nashorn in a concept xD
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 27, 2010, 09:44:42 PM
I must say i agree with you and your opion that the Ostheer should not have a Sturm or Jagttiger , because that very might , but not usefull ,cumbersome unit. and they simply did not fight at the Ostfront.

Ps:but they where commanded by the OKH.So when the Ostheer is the OKH it would make sense , but nevertheless i think they are not good for the gameplay. (I played them in other mods)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 27, 2010, 10:54:23 PM
What did OKH oO
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: imamortician on January 27, 2010, 11:31:40 PM
the okh was the german high command.

i think a stug III should def be included in the ostheer though as it was the most common german afv of the war. would be good as an early-mid game piece of medium armour. 
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: spyther on January 28, 2010, 06:09:17 AM
Lord Rommel, I noticed you are reusing several unit types like Panzer Grenadier units and Fallschirmjager units.  I think this is a cool idea, and I like how you're bringing in elite infantry units, such as Grossdeutschland (Ever read "The Forgotten Soldier?  Great book about that division.) , but rather than seeing another Sniper for this army, perhaps you could instead use Gebirgsjager infantry for this role?

Please see my post here for my ideas: http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2401.0 (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2401.0)

Thanks!
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 28, 2010, 02:36:16 PM
OKH = Oberkommando Heer was the eastern front command , because the OKH commanded only the troops on the main front.(Wien and Warsaw are at these front too.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberkommando_des_Heeres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberkommando_des_Heeres)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberkommando_des_Heeres (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberkommando_des_Heeres)
If you take the OKH as a separate Military organization ( as a "Oberkommando") the organization bigger than a "Heeresgruppe",which you could do in this special case , you could justify the use of the twice tigers.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 28, 2010, 02:45:48 PM
I know very good the german army organisation ;)
( I worked a lot of years with all this stuff xD
so u need not to inform me about "my" army ;) )
But i dont understand what do u want to signal me with the OKH in combination with Elefant, Jagdtiger and Sturmtiger oO

All this three tanks were never under OKH command. They were organized in Abteilungen or Kompanien ( here just the Sturmtiger with the 2 Sturmmörser-Kompanien ) and this formations fight under control of a division, army corps, army or Heeresgruppe...so i cant find the link between OKH and this heavy units Oo


@spyther:
My problem is that my sniper should do the work of a sniper. When i call this unit Gebirgsjäger then it could confuse other gamers because under the topic of the Gebirgsjäger most will understand infantryunits which were trained for mountaincombat and not for snipering or other
operations ;) So i think i will name this unit Scharfschütze.


@imamortician:
I had included the StuG III but in my concept it should not be a weak unit, it should be a strong tankdestroyer unit or better an effectiv tankdestroyer unit.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Xantor on January 28, 2010, 04:02:43 PM
The best concept of Ostheer that i had seen in this forum! Good job:)

I really like Your ideas, like Stug III or Panzer III, but I think that instead of Marder II there should be a Marder III from PE- it's slightly more better than Marder II and can be good counter against IS-2. I'm worried about The better version of King Tiger- with better turret it will be able to take out Is- 2 with 3-4 shots- and when you use TERROR! ability number of shots required to destroy IS-2 will be only 2-3!

Also, You should think about fighting against "old" factions- The Brits wouldn't be able to stop Elefant or KT with Brens, due to their FEAR! ability.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 28, 2010, 06:27:52 PM
I do not understand, is it not so that the OKH kommanded the Army groups(Heeresgruppen) ?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 28, 2010, 06:52:41 PM
Quote from: Rokossovski on January 27, 2010, 09:44:42 PM
[...]

Ps:but they where commanded by the OKH.So when the Ostheer is the OKH it would make sense , but nevertheless i think they are not good for the gameplay. (I played them in other mods)

I dont know what u mean with this part  ::)

And with german army structure:
division -> army coprs -> army -> Heeresgruppe -> OKH -> OKW.
And from 1944 OKW take less control about eastern front so that this theater were "mostly" controlled by OKH ( under Generaloberst Heinz Guderian ).
Edit: That was the "ideal case" but Hitler interrupt this commandsystem so often that at the end neither OKW nor OKH could give orders absolutely.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 28, 2010, 08:41:45 PM
First i saw the OKH as a Command unit over the Armygroup and so i thought that the Ostheer is these Army group the OKH.the Sturmtiger was in Warsaw and the troups were commanded by the OKH/Ostheer "Unit".
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 28, 2010, 10:16:59 PM
Ah okay. Hm. I think this much too abstract. OKH was a strategic unit which command the hole theater.

For me it is important that all my weapons were used
against the red army  ;)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 29, 2010, 12:03:54 PM
One question to your sniper is he able to become invisible ?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 31, 2010, 12:51:50 AM
So. Thx Rokossovski.
Have change/add this and 1, 2 other things  ;)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 31, 2010, 04:37:14 PM
Quote from: Savatiy on January 31, 2010, 04:04:16 PM
Enough will be blue grenadiers.

Has read that ask, laughed. Too much! Enough easy technics which was at fascist Italy.

Sry. But i dont understand this post oO
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on January 31, 2010, 05:47:17 PM
In witch way will Fallschirmjäger be called in ? infiltrate buildings or will they "fall from heaven" ?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 31, 2010, 06:06:26 PM
No airdrop because their was no "hugh" airbornlanding at the eastern front. The 7. Flieger-Division was used like an Infantry-Division, but the Fallschirmjäger showed better battleperformence then normal Infantry.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Bauer on January 31, 2010, 07:34:31 PM
Quote from: Savatiy on January 31, 2010, 04:04:16 PM
Enough will be blue grenadiers.

Has read that ask, laughed. Too much! Enough easy technics which was at fascist Italy.

Go play your EF wersion 1.00

Romely your ostherr is great. KT or Elefant when i lost it i can call new?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 31, 2010, 08:14:31 PM
Stronger or weaker is a thing of balancing :-*
But you can see this on "paper"; u had to proof
it ingame  ::)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Nubrannosaurus on January 31, 2010, 09:08:57 PM
I like your concepts for the most part, Rommel, but your doctrines are pretty lackluster.  I like critiquing and designing doctrines the most when it comes to faction brainstorming, so I'll focus my review on how well you designed your doctrines.  I'll go through all of them critiquing the aspects of an idea concerning it's usefulness and uniqueness. 

Heeresunterstützungsverbände ( Army support troops )
7. Flieger-Division: It works, although they are already part of the PE.  It's hard to design new units when there are so little to choose from.  "Fanaticism!" is the same thing as Zeal for the Terror doctrine.  "Sprint" is very similar to Fire-up, but again, not much you can do as a creator when you need an ability to deter suppression.  That being said, is it really necessary for this unit to have an ability to be immune to pinning?

Luftversorgung ( Airsupport ): Pretty boring as it's the exact same ability as "Supply Drop" that the American Airborne Company Commander receives.  This should be changed to something more unique.

- StuKa Einsatz ( StuKa Attack ): Not a bad idea, but this could use some more explanation.  Is it like the Henschel PanzerKnacker Support ability, where multiple planes fly in a targeted area and attack all units in the reticle?  Or do the Stukas attack units all over the map?  If it's the latter, I dislike this ability because there are no abilities in the game where you click a single button and every enemy unit is attacked -- there's always the skill of aiming and running the course of luck.

- prioritized Support: Is there a drawback?  Is it all resources?  It's kinda boring but it works.

- prioritized weapons: It works, but again this is pretty boring.

- sHeeresPzAbtl 503 "Feldherrnhalle": I like Tigers and I like the "Fear" and "Terror" abilities for this unit. 

Overall Thoughts On Heeresunterstützungsverbände ( Army support troops )
Some of the ideas you presented are decent and some are good, but a couple of them are lacking uniqueness or usefulness.  The three abilities I dislike are Luftversorgung, prioritized support, and prioritized weapons.  I dislike Luftversorgung because it's the same thing as "Supply Drop."  If you want an ability that gives supplies, try and develop a more unique way of doing this.

Prioritized Support and Prioritized Weapons are both useful abilities, but they are just so boring for gameplay.  Yes, we can see why they would be good, but they aren't very exciting.  In execution, they are both similar to Resource Blitz for the Blitzkrieg doctrine for Wehrmacht; not only is Resource Blitz an underused ability, but how would players feel if they had two abilities like that for the Blitzkrieg doctrine?  I feel your Luftversorgung doctrine could either replace Prioritized Support or Prioritized Weapons or both.


Heereseliteverbände ( Army's elite troops)


- „Horrido, Hurra!“: Same thing as Red Tide.  Should be replaced for the sake of variety and uniqueness.

- Grenadiere "Großdeutschland": I like the theme and abilities, but I'm noticing you're taking preexisting doctrine-specific abilities and placing them on your call-in units (such as Grenade Shower, which is the Assault Grenadier ability for Blitzkrieg doctrine and your above Fanaticism! for the Flieger-Division).  I kinda like it because it's a unique twist of using preexisting abilities since it's only using them for your elite call-in units.


- Panzerartillerie "Großdeutschland":  Good and I like it.

- Panzervernichtungsschlacht: It's good and a nice way of making your faction represent training that excels in combating enemy armor.  Nice flavor, uniqueness, and usefulness.

- Minenschlacht! ( Minebattle! ):  Not quite sure how I feel about this.  It's okay to use some preexisting abilities, but it seems like you're pushing it now.  This is the same ability as Teller Mines for the Tank Destroyer Tactics for PE, but also with the addition of the anti-infantry mines.  It just seems overkill.  UNLESS, are anti-infantry mines just the regular mines that engineers and pioneers can place?  Or are they something different and more powerful against infantry?  If they're regular mines, then this ability is okay, except for it's the same thing as the doctrine-specific Teller Mine ability.

- sHeeresPzJgAbtl 654: I like it.  Elefant is awesome.

Overall Thoughts for Heereseliteverbände ( Army's elite troops)
I like the doctrine for the most part, it’s not perfect, but some abilities need to be reaplced.  “Horrido, Hurra!” should be replaced, and the “Mine Battle” is a bit redundant.  As you may have noticed, I like ideas that are mechanically different and unique.  When Relic created the PE and British, they did quite a good job at avoiding the use of preexisting ideas.  That’s why I think the Ostheer should do the same thing.

Festungsverbände ( Fortress troops )

- Festungsbau: Cool, I like it.  Hopefully the faction dynamic, the way the faction is played in battle (British are defensive, PE are offensive, etc), isn’t upset by this increase in defense.  Other than that, it’s good.

- Festungskampf ( Fortification battle ): I like this ability a lot.  Thematically cool and mechanically useful and unique.

- 10.5cm leFh 18/40: Good.  Who doesn’t like 105 artillery?

- Stadtkampf ( Towncombat ): I like it, I had an idea almost exactly like this.  Useful and unqiue.

- Durchbruch! ( Breakthrough! ):  Not bad, it’s a lot like “Blitzkrieg Assault!” for the Wehrmacht except a little different.  Now quite sure why your defensive-related faction should receive this type of offensive ability.

- Der Gigant! ( the Giant! ): Eh, least liked ability in this doctrine.  Again, why would a doctrine based on defense receive this type of offensive ability?  It seems out of place.

Overall Thoughts On Festungsverbände ( Fortress troops )
This doctrine has some cool abilities, but there seems to be a conflict of defense and offense.  This is a mostly defense-related doctrine, so I’m not sure why this doctrine should receive offensive-related abilities like Der Gigant! And Breakthrough!  It’s as if giving “Blitzkrieg Assault!” for the Defensive Doctrine for the Wehrmacht. 


So, those are my thoughts for all 3 of your doctrines.  I hope you don’t take it personally as I’m providing a genuine critique and I only want the Ostheer to be the best they can be.  Viel Glück mein deutscher Freund!


 
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 31, 2010, 10:34:54 PM
Thanks for this analyses.

About the Heeresunterstützungsverbände:
Its a mix of Luftwaffen-Ideas and Tank-ambush.
My problem was that airforce is relay problematic
in coh. Either you call in all the attacking runs or
you call a airattack which dominate a hole sector.
Dont know which new ways could be used for the
airforce and so i picked up some old ideas and tried
to give them a new sense ;) So other problem was
the Tank-side; in fact King Tiger is a monster on
battlefield so i had to find ideas which could support
this tank side and dont make it much stronger ;)

I think about all this doctrines but at the moment
i cant finde better ideas ^^

About the Heereseliteverbände:
Horrido Hurra was an old idea from me ;)
That was not my first concept and so i picked
this old idea and put it in here. That red army use
such an idea too is a problem but i had found
an idea to replace or change the "horrdio hurra"
ability.

About the mines: that should be a combination of
normal mines and special mines. It should destroy
infantry AND tanks ;)

About the Festungsverbände:
The idea of "offensive" units and gameplay was
born out of the fact that the Wehrmacht tried often
to break open pockets or surrounded fortresses and
so here you could use it in a offensive way ;)

But thanks a lot for your comments.
I will rework the doctrines but at the moment
i'm searching for ideas  ;)


 
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Strategos101 on January 31, 2010, 11:33:37 PM
Hi
Just read through the Ostheer suggestion and i think it is great.
Just one suggestion perhaps Tiger I's... I think the Eastern Front without Tigers is unimaginable  :) They played a huge part in the Wehrmachts plans, and were very effective (if you disregard all the mechanical failures etc.) in German strategy and of course when they arrived they caused a lot of fear in the Red Army and were present throughout the war in the East (more or less) and played an active role in the majority of conflicts, i.e Kursk then the splinter action at Prokhorovka, at Leningrad etc. Obviously you can easily ignore this but this is just what i think ^^
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on January 31, 2010, 11:45:13 PM
Yes. Tiger I is important but how to implement?
To build? Call in unit?

My problem is when u make Tiger I to built then Tiger I of the old Wehrmachtdoctrins is quiet suspect. When Tiger I is a call in unit it will be like the old Wehrmacht.
So; were can i find the agreement between this?

Perhaps link Tiger I as unit to build when u chose the Heeresunterstützungsverbände or replace King Tiger with Tiger I??? I dont know :-\
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Strategos101 on February 01, 2010, 11:27:15 AM
Yeah true that poses a problem, but i would say perhaps replace the King Tiger with the Tiger I as Tiger I's played a larger role, you could maybe make it like the Tiger Ace like they used to have but one that could be given veterancy to try improve it's abilities in comparison to the Tiger II, and this as a call in unit, just make the price 1000mp?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on February 01, 2010, 11:35:03 AM
Sry. I will not think about price and costs of my abilities ;) Thats one of those balancing things which had to be tested in a alpha version of such a concept ;)

Info: I had made two significant changes at the doctrin of the Heereseliteverbände ( Army's elite troops).
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Venoxxis on February 01, 2010, 01:31:18 PM
Nice idea rommel!  :o
kinda like it!

The Ostheer without a Tiger is just not imageable. But it should be limited to 2 at the same time. because its still a tiger, and no other german faction can built tigers.. thats the only problem  :-\ would make the Ostheer the most powerfull faction about tanks - by far if it doesnt get fixxed.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Rokossovski on February 03, 2010, 11:02:03 PM
why are there not late ausf. like Panzer III with 7,5-cm-KwK L/24?
or why a panther ausf. A ? why not a G or F ausf. ?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Bauer on February 03, 2010, 11:16:31 PM
Tigers may have to be manufactured in standard and panthers can be called. That would be new.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on February 04, 2010, 12:12:10 AM
Quote from: Rokossovski on February 03, 2010, 11:02:03 PM
why are there not late ausf. like Panzer III with 7,5-cm-KwK L/24?
or why a panther ausf. A ? why not a G or F ausf. ?

My concept:
- Panzer III Ausf. J L/42
Panzergranate 40: Fire a Panzergrenade 40 which makes more damage then the normal tankgrenades.
Side armor: Upgrade Panzer III Ausf. J with Panzerschürzen.
7,5cm L/24 KwK: Upgrade Panzer III with 7,5cm KwK - better against "soft targets".
-> Panzer III with 7,5cm KwK is part of my concept ;)

@Bauer:
In my eyes Tiger is stronger than Panther ( think about the legend of the Tiger! ) and so i think Tiger should be the "special" unit ;)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Bauer on February 04, 2010, 09:13:33 AM
But panther have better gun to destroying tanks. WH have ostwin+PZIV+Panther, ostherr can have Wiblewind+PZIII+Tiger

And give ostherr some normal artylery (no stukas, neberwerfer or hotkis) some hovitzer!
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Aouch on February 04, 2010, 09:07:37 PM
I don't think Tiger I should be buildable. That would take away from the Blitz-Doc of WH.
Also, why not leave the Tiger completly out of the Ostheer?
If you want to have a Tiger, play WH. It's the same as for the Bergetiger: If you want it, play PE.

In my opinion, the OH should be something new. Not just a collection of some old "must-have"-units and some new "look-at-this-super-bad-tank"-units.
There have to be a nice concept, Rommel did it really nice.

But if stretched to its max, how about leaving every "old" vehicle/tank models out of the OH? (Except one or two, at least either Panther or Tiger should be in.)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: hgghg4 on February 04, 2010, 09:17:41 PM
Why take it out of the Ostheer? Tigers where an integral part of the German's Tank battalions on the eastern front...just trying to see your reasoning other then "It takes away from Blitzkrieg"
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Aouch on February 04, 2010, 09:29:14 PM
Yeah, I know Tigers were part of the Ostfront. But then again, you can also play as WH vs USSR. Or WH/OH vs USSR/USSR.

And I think it could be fun playing such an Ostheer without Tiger or even Pz IV. (Look at my concept, hinthint  ;))
There's still the Elefant. And for gods sake either have Tiger or Panther, but not both of them.

However, I agree with you that Ostheer should have some decent artillery, not self-probelled like PE or Nebel like WH but instead a good old hovi. LeFH18 (18/40?) would be perfect, and I think it's already part of Rommel's concept, isn't it?

Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: hgghg4 on February 04, 2010, 09:37:20 PM
The leHF18 is part of mine as a mobile howie I only have the Tiger as a Doctrine specific unit,  but you found some flaws with my Idea which I had no idea where there... like 8 man squads that only appear as 5 man and 4 man squads :p Though I did take your suggestion for an Ammo Muncher for AGN into consideration but you'll have to go look at the updated version on page 2 to get it... this is his thread :p though I have to say I enjoy some of his concepts ;D
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on February 04, 2010, 09:55:44 PM
The problem of such a Ostheer concept is that the Ostheer represent the hole eastern front and for the hole eastern front there are some symbole which should be inclouded.
I tried do do this with my concept  ;)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: hgghg4 on February 04, 2010, 09:59:56 PM
maybe we should combine our ideas O_o
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Venoxxis on February 04, 2010, 11:39:25 PM
Quote from: hgghg4 on February 04, 2010, 09:59:56 PM
maybe we should combine our ideas O_o
right. And include the tiger in a well thought way :)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Bauer on February 05, 2010, 12:31:19 AM
And I think it could be fun playing such an Ostheer without Tiger or even Pz IV. (Look at my concept, hinthint  ;))
This should be fun for russians players  :'(
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: guynumber7 on February 05, 2010, 04:10:02 AM
Two ideas:

Panzer II Ausf L "Luchs"
Light scouting tank built at Panzergrenadier Command post. Would be fairly expensive (thinking maybe 45 fuel)

It would be a pretty fast tank, like one of the fastest tanks in the game. It would be armed with a better version of the Wehr Sdfkz 234's 20mm gun, which would be more effective aganist vehicles. (it could also have coax MG)It would have okay armor, maybe slightly worse then Stuart level, but it would have good skirmishing abilities. I cant really think of any upgrades, except maybe a flamm upgrade or longer barreled gun.

37mm Pak 35/36
Cheap at gun buildable at Panzergren command post. It would be wheeled around very quickly, deploy very quickly and fire at a very rapid rate. However, it obviously would have average penetration and damage, and would need rear and side hits to be effective aganist more then armored cars and light tanks.

Ability: Pzgr 43 Hollow Charge rocket


you remember in band of brothers when they fired those shaped charged out of the front barrel of the pak 35/36, like a panzerfaust?

well after the panzer command base if built, this ability becomes aviable for 50 munis. It would basically be a slow aiming (have to put it ont he front barrel)single rocket shot fired out of the gun that would do MASSIVE damage to enemy tanks, however, at aneven shorter range then the standard gun.

also, maybe for an early doctrinal call in, Panzer 1. A fast tankw ith paper thin armor that cant eeen protect it from grenades, the PZ1 features 2 bunker equivilent MG42's, with all the supression that would apply from that.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Aouch on February 05, 2010, 10:00:11 AM
Quote from: hgghg4 on February 04, 2010, 09:59:56 PM
maybe we should combine our ideas O_o
Maybe we really should do so...
Mine for example was once based upon Lord Rommel's. Unit-Pools are still there, I'm also fine with the "British" way of HQ-trucks.
However, I disagree with some of his Doctrins and veterancy-suggestion. Also I have a whole different theory of units that should be used and how the Ostheer should be in general.

I'll PM you to avoy spamming Rommel's Concept.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: hgghg4 on February 05, 2010, 04:38:48 PM
how bout we bring Lord Rommel into this as well???
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: GamblerSK on February 05, 2010, 04:51:05 PM
i hawe an idea to make an thread which will be called like  Ostheer finalizing concept we all will be writing ideas and the most popular will go to first post as an edit and what we get at the end is a whole concept made by most people,because what we now have are concepts of one person and ideas of many people so we must get them all to gather,what do you think?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: F22Raptor on February 05, 2010, 06:05:19 PM
i thing that is it that reworked version is VERY GOOD:)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Pauly3 on February 05, 2010, 09:20:52 PM
a well thought concept indeed, but were is the amazing Knüppeldamm ability gone???
i liked this idea a lot (full speed in own territory)
would be historical and useful for defense as well as offense (faster to the front) so plese bring it back, maybe inted of a more "boring" ability like the airdrop of fuel :)
 
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: guynumber7 on February 05, 2010, 10:28:20 PM
I also think the 2.8 cm Spzb squeeze bore at gun could be included somehow. It would be like a heavy anti tank rifle that has to deploy, but would be great aganist light vehicles and tanks.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Ilrich on February 16, 2010, 04:00:17 PM
Lord Rommel, it's a really good work! It would be very nice, if we will have this Ostheer in game. My vote is for your doctrine. My congratiulations, Kamerad!  ;)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: South3rs on February 18, 2010, 10:02:11 AM
Great ideas, I think parts of yours work really well, but obvisouly some parts of others are better, i think yours should get mixed into the final piece though. For example your vetrancy system, thats a good idea.

Also many of your unit ideas are great, but i have seen just a good ideas elsewhere aswell.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on February 18, 2010, 01:13:43 PM
Well; what for ideas u dont like/ u think arent good?
I already said that i think that my doctrins arent so good but the "body" is extreme good and "balanced" but that is just my opinion ;)
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: morti271 on March 01, 2010, 11:21:29 PM
Very nice concept  ;)
But I think the doctrines, as already mentioned, are a bit "über"  ;D
For example that there will be more than one Tiger II per game or the infantry with its 3xStg. and the 42er.
With the Jagdtiger you are right, even if I would really like to shoot some sovjet tanks with its 128mm gun.

PS: "Panzergrenadiergefechtsstand" certainly was the "Unwort des Jahres" 1944  :o
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: irik on March 20, 2010, 04:18:29 PM
I like this concept. My prediction is that the Ostheer will be this. Lord Rommel, your ostheer concept is great. I am for Tiger being in Ostheer, not against it. I hope Mr. Scruff's Jagdtiger will not be deleted or destroyed.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: TheReaper on March 20, 2010, 09:04:10 PM
Good concept, but what about the recruing? I think the most popular doctrine will be the Heereseliteverbände doctrine, so you won't loose any equipment during the motorization... 2 Tigers on the field... My dreams would come true  ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Killar on March 20, 2010, 10:42:12 PM
Quote from: Lord Rommel on January 23, 2010, 05:54:47 PM
Info: Tiger I nearly so strong like JS II ( same level! ).

Does it mean the Tiger I in your concept will be differ from the Wehr Tiger?

Would be strange if you play as ostheer and your teamate as wehr has a stronger Tiger than you!  :P

Better the same tank but will cost fuel or other ressources....
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on March 21, 2010, 01:31:37 PM
Well. My wish is that there will be more then ONE Tiger at the same time on the battlefield. I mean Tiger-groups fought all the time in a closed group. A single Tiger is so
"stupid" because he couldnt use all the typical german
tank-tactics AND just one tank is nearly helpless on the battlefield.
So out of the historical view i want more Tigers on the battlefield ( e.g. two ^^ ) and when that mean that one Tiger had to be weaker in comparison with Wehrmacht "Ace-Tiger" so then it had to be. But when two Tigers are a little bit stronger ( Tiger-group ^^ ) then the single Wehrmacht Tiger then i had a cool new Tiger-battlegroup.

About recrewing; That is not possible by game mechanic and so Ostheer wont be able to recrew anything.

But thanks for all the feedback.
I'm happy that so much of you like my "Ostheer" ;D
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: TheReaper on March 21, 2010, 10:58:14 PM
It's be an off-topic, and you can delete this later, but why won't we do a petition, for Relic, to help you guys solving the recruing system? I'm sure, there is much better, to try it, than wait what's heapaning. I'm sure, there is a critical mass, when the company agrre to it. Lets write down, that every person, who sign the petiton won't buy any relic game in the future. Maybe they will afraid a bit, and do some tech support for you. The company leaders care about the profit and I'm sure they will consider this. It's time to we fans do something for you guys, I'm sure there be 300-400 people (or more) who sing it. What you guys think?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Killar on March 22, 2010, 12:25:22 AM
Quote from: Lord Rommel on March 21, 2010, 01:31:37 PM
Well. My wish is that there will be more then ONE Tiger at the same time on the battlefield. I mean Tiger-groups fought all the time in a closed group. A single Tiger is so
"stupid" because he couldnt use all the typical german
tank-tactics AND just one tank is nearly helpless on the battlefield.
So out of the historical view i want more Tigers on the battlefield ( e.g. two ^^ ) and when that mean that one Tiger had to be weaker in comparison with Wehrmacht "Ace-Tiger" so then it had to be. But when two Tigers are a little bit stronger ( Tiger-group ^^ ) then the single Wehrmacht Tiger then i had a cool new Tiger-battlegroup.

You don´t need to make the tiger weaker, cause it will replace the panther. As i understand you have than only 2 tigers and the Ferdinand.
So 3 heavy tanks max on the battlefield for your doctrine.

With Wehr Biltz doctrine for example you can build a tiger AND you have no unit limit for the panther.
tiger has pop 14 and panther pop 12.
you could have a big battlegroup of 1 tiger and 4or5 panthers at the same time for blitz doc.

Your Doc has only 3 heavy tanks, so it wouldn´t be good to make the ost tigers weaker.
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G. on March 22, 2010, 12:29:09 AM
@TheReaper: The team is still in contact with RELIC ( u can this for example with the interview ;) ) and so we had to wait.
At the moment the recrewing is a problem and so at the moment i had "implement" this situation at the concept.

And with the Tiger-Limit; well. At the end such a point would be a problem for balancing and at the moment my concept is just one of a high number here at the forum ^^
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Griptonix on October 22, 2010, 05:51:06 PM
Not sure how updated this posting by Herr Rommel is, but is this a good idea of how our boys in gray will look?
Title: Re: 2nd reworked Ostheer by Lord Rommel
Post by: Blackbishop on October 23, 2010, 06:26:15 AM
Whoops! This thread was buried a long ago... I'll lock this... If LordRommel wants he can unlock it ;).

@Griptonix
You should sent him a pm instead :-\.