Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Suggestions => Topic started by: redguardsoldier on February 09, 2010, 11:22:20 AM
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I don't know if our lovely developers have any ideas for EF campaign yet. So I have some ideas for the coming campaign and I hope you also like them.
The original campaign in CoH seem to not very epic, except some very first missions. I like to just command my troops through the war. Start with a HQ, building army, capturing points and then destroying enemies seem boring. Why don't we make a campaign that similar to the World in Conflict: Soviet Assault's one? No more base building, just come essential buildings for reinforcement, medical assistant and maybe repair station, some places where your troops can fall back and prepare for coming assaults. Units will be call in off-map and some special units will come from ambient building.
The main character in game should be in a middle rank, so that he is only responsible for just a small area of a big map. Allied computer controlled units, which are scripted well, will fight aside player's troops. Objectives can vary from capturing points, holding area, protecting VIP, rescuing endangered comrades... On some missions, player can act as artillery spotters, partisan leaders (officers who are sent behind enemy line to command local partisan), and some moments player's units will be put under computer's control when he is taking command of a downed comrade's units. Computer controlled units from both sides are also come from off-map and scripted to present only in adequate numbers, but with infinite reservation. The campaign will not be very difficult because your allied units will help you a lot but the battles will be very epic.
And I also suggest a view from both fronts. As the campaign begin with a hopeless defense of a Wehrmacht officer in Berlin. Seeing your comrades died in Soviet hand one by one (the last pockets of resistance in Berlin are clear one by one) and finally, your last moments come on, heavily injured, you lying unconscious on the ground, remembering your first steps on Soviet soil. And there's also a Soviet Officer, who struggle to lead his troops survived from the very first moments of the war. Soviet mission can be holding off the overwhelming German so your comrades can retreat, breaking through German encirclement to avoid certain termination... And at the end of the campaign is the last moments of the Soviet assault on Berlin.
I know that making a campaign like that requires heavy scripting but I will definitely more exciting than being a lonely commander.
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Nice idea m8,hope their can set it up for all players.
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The Berlin campaign should be the last, as it is the last major battle of The European theatre.
Instead of holding your ground, In the middle of the battle, your commanding officer (liuetenant or captain maybe) decides that this war is over and leads his men out of Berlin to try and surrender to the Western allies. In the escape of Berlin, You will have to avoid both Germans and Russians because german deserters in the battle of berlin were killed.
Then you will have to make your way to the Allied lines avoiding Russian patrols.
Also, a battle of prohkorovka mission will be nice, where you command a Tiger Ace and help your allied tanks fight the endless stream of russian tanks.
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I mean 2 Berlin missions, the one that start the campaign in German view, maybe holding hopelessly or escaping (I like your idea, but as a Wehrmacht lover (pure Wehrmacht, no Nazi), I'm not very happy with it). The one that finish the campaign is on Soviet view, as you trying to take full control of Berlin. So, the campaign started in Berlin, flashback to the start of the war, and then finish in Berlin. It will really impress player.
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coool idea. Yes lets use allied units more, like how about your a battalion sized unit, controlling a company, and the other companys are always around you, helping. I think there can be maybe like one base for your whole batalion, but watevas easiest. Also if you need some voice work done, record it yourselfs and use some voice editing tools, u will be supprised at how good it sounds, well sometimes :p at least its cheap,. just dont make it without any talking, that would be crap i played mods of campaigns in other games, and sometimes they even have amazing cinematics but never that gooda speech, usually just subtitles, Dull :p
im thinking a big map, 4 vs 4, osteer and wermach maybe pe too have like 2 big base areas, heavy defended on there side, then big fields in mid, with ruined city at one edge. maybe a small river too :p Huge tank battles already going on with your allies throughout, trying to hold them back. And you have to lead a company to flank, choose the side or mid, wateva, but u have to destroy the 2 big Hq's like big buildings :p or officers or both. and maybe all your reinforcements instead of come from base, come from train :p (ok maybe to hard to make) at least have like a huge defenceive russian wall of commisars manning outposts, mgs and at guns, like so russians dont mass retreat :P
Campaigns are brilliant :D
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This sounds like the men of war campgain where a russian officer is swept up in the early part of ww2 by the german onslaught and has like all his men killed except they find a kV1 and rape everyone. He gets captured by germans, you help him escape, then he is put in a penal batallion. he then finds some valuable intel and joins SMERSH. He then joins special forces and causes havoc behind german lines, progressing throughout the war and slowly ranking up, up to a Major i think by the end.
However, i agree with you on many parts. Origional COH campgain was dull and i hated building up USA bases. Opposing Fronts campagins were much better done and even ToV's were fun, if short.
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Since I just play game for fun, I found that all CoH campaigns are a little too heavy for me (except Tiger Ace and Causeway). It would be more fun that the campaign is easy but impressive since focusing only in battles (you only take a small part in a large scale battles) is eye candy.
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I would also think about Missions with verry few units because WW2 wasnt always a large slaughter ground. Sometimes there were also battles of small squads thet were on patrol and got suprised by the Enemy. So that in those Campaigns u have to watch over every men, avoiding losses. It would be battle more focused on strategy and not like who has more and powerfull units.
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Personally I would love to see an Epic Campaign, honestly the only one that was worth anything was the Normandy Campaign and maybe the British one, but other then that, I really didn't get immersed in it so I hope that they make an epic campaign not something like Causeway or Tiger Ace
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You like the americian one?
i think it was way to repetitive and having to build up a base every damn game got really annoying.
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But the battles where nice :D
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No base building please, put us right into combat like World in Conflict. I finished WiC campaign with no hiccup but I always want to play it again. Just make objectives a little variety and make living character (your higher ranks officers, your staffs officers and some who has the same rank as you).
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I love the original campaign and find the ToV campaign pretty boring except Tiger Ace...
Maybe it just me...
Well, how about if there are 2 different campaign involved so people can just play campaign type they want (1 vCoH type campaign and 1 ToV type campaign)...
Or make it like CoD (In 1 mission you build base and attack, in next mission you play as a squad storming enemy base; 2 perspective and it will make the war more epic - at least that what I think)...
How about that ;D?
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Campaign should be structured similar to the Coh OF campaign and be based on what actually happened.
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I once had to make a 10 page summary of the battle at stalinrad. I have gained enough knowledge, that, including the operations before Stalinrad (Like operation barbarossa), there's plenty of material to atleast make a few missions for a russian campain.
My idea is like: It starts with something like a small skirmish, standing for the operation barbarossa. Second mission could be the first battle at Charkov, third one the second battle at charkov, and lastly a battle at Stalingrad. Other ideas for campain missions would be something with Kertsj or multiple battles in Stalinrad. Maybe add even some of the generals as elite officer units?
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I think it would be better to have a more focused perspective and rely on an already written historical piece, than try to piece something together at random.
I would recommend using Antony Beevor´s "Stalingrad" for the Russian campaign, and his "Berlin" for the Germans. Stalingrad can start with the assault on the Volga by Rodimstev´s 13th Guards (the first Russian mission in Call of Duty, basically, with lots of conscript units sailing across the Volga on boats), and work up to the end of the battle with the destruction of the VI Army in the Uranus Operation. You can use the three current Soviet doctrines in the different stages of the battle.
As for Berlin, it can start with the German defeat at Seelow, then follow up with the desperate fighting in and around Berlin, and then follow the German Corps that stayed behind to protect civilians against the Red Army up until they surrendered to the Allies.
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Will it have characters like in the relic campaigns? Cutscenes?
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I think it would be better to have a more focused perspective and rely on an already written historical piece, than try to piece something together at random.
I would recommend using Antony Beevor´s "Stalingrad" for the Russian campaign, and his "Berlin" for the Germans. Stalingrad can start with the assault on the Volga by Rodimstev´s 13th Guards (the first Russian mission in Call of Duty, basically, with lots of conscript units sailing across the Volga on boats), and work up to the end of the battle with the destruction of the VI Army in the Uranus Operation. You can use the three current Soviet doctrines in the different stages of the battle.
As for Berlin, it can start with the German defeat at Seelow, then follow up with the desperate fighting in and around Berlin, and then follow the German Corps that stayed behind to protect civilians against the Red Army up until they surrendered to the Allies.
Gets close to what I suggested, but I like this more. Though the last mission for the axis that you suggested, do you simply want to do a timed battle against the commies until americans arrive, and then give up?
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...do you simply want to do a timed battle against the commies until americans arrive, and then give up?
Doesn't sound fun at all. :(
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Saavedra has got it down, although i'd start make a campaign side for each factions.
For instance;
Germans mission for Stalingrad, initial invasion, then after Operation Little Saturn, demoralized, cold, starving but not yet beaten. Around 5 missions.
Russians at Stalingrad, as Saavedra suggests throw in the resistance to Operation Winter Storm is a must. 5-7 missions.
Berlin and Kursk should also be include in campaign packs, with missions on both sides.
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I would have it so the player has to protect certain road junctions through which trucks full of civilians are passing. The trucks come in from the sides of the map, heading south. The Russians come in from the north.
As time goes by, Russian attacks are harder to resist, and you will eventually lose junctions. The goal would be to have a set number of civilian vehicles evacuate through your lines. The more junctions you hold, the more civilian vehicles spawn and the faster the evacuation proceeds.
Holding on to all junctions would be possible and make the evacuation proceed faster, but it would strain your resources and you might find yourself surprised by sudden, overwhelming attacks, losing more ground (and maybe even junctions) than if you chose to abandon one or two of them in favour of having a stronger defense in all the others.
If you manage to save the minimum number of requested vehicles, you get a good end. If you don´t, you get a bad end.
I more or less have ideas for how I would structure the campaigns, but without access to Antony Beevor´s books where I am living right now, I can´t explore all the possibilities.
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Antony Beevor´s books
*shudder*
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Antony Beevor´s books
*shudder*
Problem, communist?
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Antony Beevor´s books
*shudder*
Problem, communist?
Sounds like bad memories and a few sleepless nights. Not our problem, comrade.
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@ Saavedra, good idea.
I also like the concept of a scorched earth mission. You play as German mechanized battalion and you are tasked with;
Primary:
1. Hold Russian forces at the centre median while the rest of the Divison falls back safety to reestablished lines. Est. 45mins.
2. Destroy a bridge and the railway on the map.
Secondary:
1. Lay at least 100 mines and booby trap 12 buildings(must be completed before the blowing up of bridges on the Russians side.
2. Inflict 650 casualties.
3. Loose less than 250 casualties.
Bonus:
1. Lead armoured column throuugh Russians lines and destroy their ammo and fuel caches.
2. Save a platoon of grenadiers who are surrounded in the city core.
3. Destory all 3 bridges.
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Woah, hey, start with deciding the overarching plot of the campaign, THEN the missions.
For example, if I had my hand in making the plot, I would have the Russian one be about a Red Army officer (you) having just been through Stalin´s purge, and barely judged innocent. You start commanding Rodimstev´s reinforcements in the passing of the Volga, with a Commissar at your back.
Right from the start, it is obvious the main character and the Commissar hate each other´s guts.
Follow with an assault on the Mamaev Kurgan (the cemetery on a hill from which one could watch the whole of Stalingrad) and maybe a special mission to direct a covert attack on the German headquarters. A secondary objective in one of the missions dealing with Stalingrad would be helping a certain dude defending a certain house...
All of this under the watchful gaze of the Commissar.
Then, you are reassigned, as an experienced officer, to one of the units leading the assault on the German Sixth Army outside Stalingrad. You go on from attacking the ring, to penetrating the Kessel and destroying the last airfield resupplying the Germans, and finally, taking Von Paulus´ command bunker.
At some point in the game, you are given the choice of killing the Commissar, or not. You get two opportunities: when he is trapped and he orders you to rescue him in a state of panic, or when you are leading the covert operation and you can target him with the Sniper Ace.
If you do it, at the end of the game, you receive a visit from the NKVD asking questions.
BAD END
If you play smart and keep him alive, he becomes a "friend" of yours, and helps you take some more steps up the Soviet Army´s command ladder thanks to his political influence.
GOOD END (you might feel like a douchebag, though)
The German campaign starts on Seelow Heights, and there are three characters involved. A German Wehrmacht officer, a Waffen SS officer, and a specially sent representative of the SS (think the equivalent of a Soviet Commissar, and yes, these guys existed though I don´t know their names). The main character is the Wehrmacht officer, and he meets the others after the defeat at Seelow Heights, when you are commanded to defend one of the "fortress cities". Anyone with a brain, however, figures out it cannot be defended, and even the SS Commissar figures that out with some persuasion.
This is when the great escape begins. You lead desperate defenses against the odds and watch German soldiers give their lives to protect the civilians or run away as cowards.
At one point, you are given a choice. Resist to the death to give time for the civilians to escape, or run away. The Waffen SS officer decides to resist with his troops, and the SS Commissar also orders him to do it (but runs away at the last moment anyway).
If you, the Wehr officer, decide to run, you go on to the next missions but lose all Waffen SS support since the Waffen SS officer is angry at you because of the losses suffered by the SS. You gain some last-ditch troops drawn from forced conscription, but they are no veterans. On the other hand, if you decide to stay, you are rescued at the last moment by the Ninth Corps (or was it Army? ). You keep your Waffen SS support and gain a few more regular units.
Gaining or losing units would mean gaining or losing access to doctrines in the last missions.
After this choice, you go on to fight in Berlin, and then form the rear of the refugee columns fleeing to the Allies. You fight in city ruins, forests in fire, and river crossings, always hounded by the Red Army.
In the final mission, you have to fight to give time to the last civilians to escape. You get two objectives:
1- Protect the road junctions until X number of civilian vehicles has escaped.
2- Keep the Wehrmacht officer alive.
If either of these objectives is not met, your character dies, and few civilians manage to get through.
The Secondary objectives are:
1- Keep the Waffen SS officer alive (he could be riding a Tiger or a Panther)
2- Something something something
If you keep the Waffen SS officer alive at the end, the cinematic shows him dressed in normal Wehrmacht uniform shaking hands with the Wehr officer before disappearing among a crowd of surrendering soldiers. The Wehr officer is taken in to talk to some nobody called Patton.
Years later, the SS Commissar that ran away is shown in civilian clothes, in a bar. A gloved hand rests on his shoulder and when he turns to look, it´s the Waffen SS officer with a sharkish grin.
Later, in a dark alleyway, a single shot sounds, and a man with the distinct silhouette of the Waffen SS officer walks away calmly. The game ends.
GOOD END (if you like douchebags being heavily implied to be dead by the hands of another douchebag)
If you don´t save the Waffen SS officer, the scene is the same for the Wehr officer. He is taken to talk to some high-ranking Allied general.
Years later, the Wehr officer is approached in the same bar as the other cinematic by the same SS Commissar. He heavily implies that he has started a new organization of questionable integrity that supposedly needs him for morale purposes and to attract new recruits. He leaves a card behind with a symbol all too familiar to the Wehr officer, and says to call him if you are interested.
The scene ends with the main character asking for a strong drink as he looks in disgust at the card... and then, either picks it up, or tears it apart (depending on whether you chose to run away in the first missions leaving the Waffen SS officer to defend the city by himself, or if you chose to resist together with him at the end).
QUESTIONABLE/ BAD END
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That is one hell of a post. Although i'm not sure this campaign will even have characters liek in the relic ones. But if it will have a plot, i'd like to see seperate mission and characters that rarely, if ever, interact(kind of like how the American Able(infantry) and Fox(airborne) companies mission ran parallel).
I'd like to see a Russian Guards officer as one character. This man has had his whole life torn apart by the Germans, his wife and daughter perished in Leningrad and he was fueled with revenge. He is not only interested in beating the Germans to ther own country, but crushing them into dust.
Then there is the Armoured officer. He is a simple man from the country, parents were farmers and all he thinks about are women, vodka and tank battles.
The Artillery Officer is more tame, he was a university student-made officer and maintains order in his regiment. Young and naive, but tactically brilliant.
For the Germans there would an honorable officer from the Totenkopf, appalled by the tarnish reputation of the 3.SS, he is determined to fight long and hard for both his country and his Division's honor. The last mission in the 3.SS can called "Meine Ehre heißt Treue", or "My Honor is called Loyalty", the divison's motto, it can be set in Hungary, giving to the mood of the desparate bitter fighting that took place there.
There is the Special Tank Battalion officer, who is a veteran of the war and nothing phases him now. He just wants to hold the savages back, thinking that for every day he holds the Russians back, is another day his little boy is alive.
The final officer is a young infantry officer, just barely 22, he is not a nazi by any stretch and only wants to go home and ensure the safty of his sickly mother and young wife. Young, but not stupid, he is willing to fight to the bitter end if he has to.
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first off i dont think the EF team can do professional CGI cutscenes.
second of all i dont even though if missions with multiple outcomes is possible in CoH.
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The EF team can make cutscenes. There's a tool for it.
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The problem with your ideas Saavedra is that they have a massive political slant. Company of Heroes is a politically neutral game. Having your ideas implemented would change what Company Heroes is all about.
For example, your idea of having the player hold back the Soviets while the civilians evacuate doesn't feel like Company of Heroes. It feels like Goebbels' Company of Heroes. Not only is your scenario historically inaccurate but it presents to the player the fact that towards the end of the war the Nazi regime distributed propaganda that depicted the Red Army as savages and animals. While it is true that such propaganda was distributed widely in an effort to push the civilian population into a last stand to help Hitler - is this Nazi propaganda necessarily a good thing for a politically neutral game? I don't think so.
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second of all i dont even though if missions with multiple outcomes is possible in CoH.
Thing is, there are no multiple outcomes. Whatever decisions you take, you will play the same missions, but with modifications that should be doable (locking out doctrine choices was done in the original game, locking out scripts like the Commissar asking for help in the second mission if you killed him in the first should also be doable, that kind of thing).
The problem with your ideas Saavedra is that they have a massive political slant.
I call bullshit on this. Both campaigns show both sides as the scumbags they were, and stripping World War 2 of the politics involved just serves to turn it into a frivolous cowboys and indians show.
I just happen to put choices on the hands of the players, and give them endings appropriate to their choices that are more realistic than "America saves the day!" or "Russians save the day!" or "There are no Nazis in 40s Germany!"
As for accusing these ideas of historical inaccuracy, I call DOUBLE-BULLSHIT on it. Antony Beevor is a reputed historian who covered both sides of the war through extensive research thanks to interviews with witnesses and archive searches. I trust that guy more than I am ever going to trust someone posting in a videogames forum on the Internet with Soviet-themed avatars and signatures.
Also, one more thing to clarify:
The Red Army WAS a bunch of savages and animals. The list of atrocities they committed as they rampaged through Prussia and Germany boggles the mind. They were hardly better than the Nazis, exceptions had in mind or not.
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Relax both of you before you both get banned. I understand where you are coming from Saaverdra, but thebomb is right. Having that in the campaign would be something that the EF team wouldn't want to do if they plan on marketing this to Relic. Even though we know that both the Russians (who felt they where in the right to do what they did because of the actions taken by the SS) and the SS did massive atrocities along with some Wehrmacht (not as many as they where everyday soldiers who wanted to keep their honor) the world today is to 'soft' in that nature and doesn't want to hear about how there where concentration camps and mass wholesale slaughter of civilians. That is today's world and unfortunately we have to abide by those 'moral' rules. I do like your idea though, it was well thought out and rather interesting and I would love to see it implemented BUT like I said the world is to 'soft' and ignorant to understand what happened back then.
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I call bullshit on this. Both campaigns show both sides as the scumbags they were...
We must have played different games then.
I just happen to put choices on the hands of the players, and give them endings appropriate to their choices that are more realistic than "America saves the day!" or "Russians save the day!" or "There are no Nazis in 40s Germany!"
Company of Heroes was never about realism. This is pretty obvious with the superhero Knight's Cross soldiers and the Soviet soldiers without weapons - it's all done in the interests of having a fun game at the expense of realism.
I would argue that "X faction saves the day!" is exactly what CoH is about. Throughout the German and American campaigns you feel like you are leading a badass group of soldiers that have this "Hollywood" feel to them. I just don't think the game would be any fun if your pseudo-historical/politically slanted campaigns were put in - that's all I'm saying.
As for accusing these ideas of historical inaccuracy, I call DOUBLE-BULLSHIT on it. Antony Beevor is a reputed historian who covered both sides of the war through extensive research thanks to interviews with witnesses and archive searches. I trust that guy more than I am ever going to trust someone posting in a videogames forum on the Internet with Soviet-themed avatars and signatures.
I don't recall mentioning Antony Beevor anywhere in my post...I have in fact read two of his books, one on Stalingrad the other on Berlin, and nowhere in those two does Beevor portray the Germans as helpless victims at the mercy of the "Asiatic Horde". I couldn't find sources for some of his figures but that's largely irrelevant unless one was trying to force a conclusion that the Red Army was a bunch of animals and savages which incidentally you have done. Bravo.
Also, one more thing to clarify:
The Red Army WAS a bunch of savages and animals. The list of atrocities they committed as they rampaged through Prussia and Germany boggles the mind. They were hardly better than the Nazis, exceptions had in mind or not.
That's quite the generalization you're making there. I'm not going to argue with you since we clearly have fundamental differences regarding the perception of the Red Army. In any event, arguing whether your missions were historically inaccurate wasn't the main point of my original post. I simply thought your ideas didn't fit with the general feel and mood of the game (as I've outline above).
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I call bullshit on this. Both campaigns show both sides as the scumbags they were...
We must have played different games then.
I did not mean videogame campaigns.
I just don't think the game would be any fun if your pseudo-historical/politically slanted campaigns were put in - that's all I'm saying.
I don´t understand. Where is the political slant?
I couldn't find sources for some of his figures but that's largely irrelevant unless one was trying to force a conclusion that the Red Army was a bunch of animals and savages which incidentally you have done. Bravo.
Well, they WERE. It is a generalization, of course not everybody in the Red Army was happy with raping, mutilating, burning, murdering and all the other things the Red Army did as it advanced into Germany. But if I can´t call out the Red Army´s clear inhumanity because only 40% or 30% or whatever high percentage of it was composed of people with medieval mindsets given submachineguns and free reign over the German population, then why should anyone be able to say that the Nazis were bad? Should we repeal all the sentences handed out at the Nuremberg trials because hey, maybe the guys in command were not so bad, and we can´t read minds so we should let them go?
Sure, if on a personal level you prefer to judge people by their own acts, I don´t see a problem with that. But the Red Army´s behaviour as a whole in Germany was just as barbaric, if not worse, as the German Army´s in the Soviet Union.
I wonder if there is already a German "Come and See". It would be hilarious to see the shitstorm that would arise.
That's quite the generalization you're making there. I'm not going to argue with you since we clearly have fundamental differences regarding the perception of the Red Army. In any event, arguing whether your missions were historically inaccurate wasn't the main point of my original post. I simply thought your ideas didn't fit with the general feel and mood of the game (as I've outline above).
But you did say that my ideas were historically inaccurate. It is right there in your post. That´s why I bothered writing about that. If you had not written that, I would not have replied, would I?
As for the feel and mood of the game, that´s funny, vCoH is far more politically slanted than my ideas. The Americans are suffering saints, the British are pip-pip cheerio laddies, and the Germans are either silent monsters of destruction (the Tiger commander from the American campaign) or the poor but stiff defenders of a doomed regime under the command of indifferent assholes (PE campaign). The most balanced portrayal seems to be in the British campaign, mostly because they don´t bother giving the Germans any character at all.
It is all a bunch of stereotypes. I don´t see why my ideas are worse than those when, at the very worst, they are on an equal level.
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You both raise good points, however, this is getting horribly off-topic.
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Saavedra, what I'm getting at is that you're trying to insert a message into your missions (regardless of its historical accuracy, let's not debate that right now) into a game that is free of such messages. Your "help the German civilians escape from the evil Red Army" is a perfect example. Does vCoH have missions where the Germans are trying to evacuate Dresden from relentless American firebombing of civilians? No. Does vCoH have missions where we see German soldiers committing war crimes? No. That's not what this game is about.
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Guys Chill out and knock it off. This has gone way to far off topic. If you want to discuss this topic take it to the Historical Part of the forums.
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Saavedra, what I'm getting at is that you're trying to insert a message into your missions (regardless of its historical accuracy, let's not debate that right now) into a game that is free of such messages. Your "help the German civilians escape from the evil Red Army" is a perfect example. Does vCoH have missions where the Germans are trying to evacuate Dresden from relentless American firebombing of civilians? No. Does vCoH have missions where we see German soldiers committing war crimes? No. That's not what this game is about.
What is your point? You are talking about vCoH, this is EF mod. It uses the CoH engine and game mechanics, graphics, etc. There is no partnership with Relic and their campaign-design team.
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Saavedra, what I'm getting at is that you're trying to insert a message into your missions (regardless of its historical accuracy, let's not debate that right now) into a game that is free of such messages. Your "help the German civilians escape from the evil Red Army" is a perfect example. Does vCoH have missions where the Germans are trying to evacuate Dresden from relentless American firebombing of civilians? No. Does vCoH have missions where we see German soldiers committing war crimes? No. That's not what this game is about.
What is your point? You are talking about vCoH, this is EF mod. It uses the CoH engine and game mechanics, graphics, etc. There is no partnership with Relic and their campaign-design team.
The modders have on multiple occasions stated that they would like to retain the feel of vCoH and make it as authentic to the original game as possible - as if it were an expansion made by Relic. Having that in mind I would imagine whatever campaign missions were put into the mod, they would have the same politically neutral feel of vCoH's missions. That's my point.
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I would have it so the player has to protect certain road junctions through which trucks full of civilians are passing. The trucks come in from the sides of the map, heading south. The Russians come in from the north.
As time goes by, Russian attacks are harder to resist, and you will eventually lose junctions. The goal would be to have a set number of civilian vehicles evacuate through your lines. The more junctions you hold, the more civilian vehicles spawn and the faster the evacuation proceeds.
Holding on to all junctions would be possible and make the evacuation proceed faster, but it would strain your resources and you might find yourself surprised by sudden, overwhelming attacks, losing more ground (and maybe even junctions) than if you chose to abandon one or two of them in favour of having a stronger defense in all the others.
If you manage to save the minimum number of requested vehicles, you get a good end. If you don´t, you get a bad end.
I more or less have ideas for how I would structure the campaigns, but without access to Antony Beevor´s books where I am living right now, I can´t explore all the possibilities.
I like the idea... except for the whole "protecting civilians" part. Yeah, it would be more historically accurate but not very CoH-like. Instead of civilians, make them wounded soldiers and damaged vehicles retreating like the last ToV Trun mission.
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This got boring in the middle of page two lol
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Okay,these civilians are escaping,but where?I thought Berlin was surrounded.
I have got my own and inspired suggestion about Red Army campaign,but I have to go now :P Later...
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Berlin was indeed surrounded, but some breakout attempts succeeded before the last days. Civilians also escaped from other cities. Their destination was Allied-occupied territory.
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Personally campaign-wise I'd like to see something containing both vCoH base building type missions and a few more small scale ToV type ones aswell. Might aswell have the best of both worlds.
Also include both early war and late war scenarios, possibly through "flashback" sequences if going the whole-hog with story and characters etc.
I made a more detailed outline of this idea in an old post somewhere, but its late and I cant be bothered to dig it out.
The flashback missions would be black and white though...snazzy :P
As far as the whole content debate/argument going on here, whilst it would add an "interesting" slant to a campaign, its not really in fitting with CoH.
If people want real politics and history they should get it from books and documentaries, not computer games where the main point is to kill as many little pixel men as you can.
The jarring reality of war and "OMG!!1 Did you see how many tommies my V1 just pwned1!" dont really fit together too well, in my mind atleast :)
Cheers
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Coh dosent give up realism for fun, it turns realism INTO fun.
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When I talk, the No one respones to a topic anymore. Lol. :(
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Hmm, what about a basic 'Tutorial' Mission for the Soviet's based in the Invasion of Poland? I've always wanted to see that in any MOD.
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you guys raised some pretty good suggestions...all we need to do now is integrate the missions themselves with unit tutorials, like in vCOH. ;) here's my idea as an example:
for the Ostheer:
<Intro of events from Operation Barbarossa up to Siege of Leningrad>
Mission 1: Strangling Lenin (Siege of Leningrad)
Goal: Leichte Feldhaubitze Artillery tutorial - Master the use of precision artillery strikes, fire-support and counter-battery fire.
Main Objectives:
- capture all 4 strategic points.
- destroy 5 tank factories.
- destroy the main food depot.
- eliminate 8 artillery emplacements.
- eliminate all 4 large static emplacements.
Secondary Objectives:
- defend artillery from aerial attacks. (Luftwaffe Anti-Aircraft Badge)
- defend forward observation post from partisan attacks. (Close Combat Badge)
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Personally campaign-wise I'd like to see something containing both vCoH base building type missions and a few more small scale ToV type ones aswell. Might aswell have the best of both worlds.
this is somewhat what I was thinking of, I would love to see Ostheer/Soviet campaigns that are as long as the Opposing Fronts ones and have "the best of both worlds", but in the fun perspective I would really love to see a Prequel to the Tiger-Ace TOV campaign, in other words, the chance of controlling Hauptmann Voss' Tigergruppe on the Eastern Front, in a way of capturing the idea of how they really became one of the best tank crews on the Eastern Front.
Btw Werwolf, I like the idea of that Ostheer mission in Leningrad :)
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I would really love to see a Prequel to the Tiger-Ace TOV campaign, in other words, the chance of controlling Hauptmann Voss' Tigergruppe on the Eastern Front, in a way of capturing the idea of how they really became one of the best tank crews on the Eastern Front.
Thought I might add that Hauptmann Voss from Tiger ace is the Commander in OMG Campaign. Also the gunner (I think, Sch something is his name) is in the Normandy Campaign (He's the guy that kills the Captain, later being killed in Autry).
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I agree , it shouldnt all be base building , but if there is an eastern fronts campaign , IT NEEDS BASE BUILDING MISSIONS. if it has none then it will end up more like dawn of war 2 which is terrible.
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Dawn of War 2 *Sigh*
Wish it was like Dawn of War the 1st series ( Including soulstorm)
But the campaigns for both army best place 1 or 2 main heroes what do you think?
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Certainly, little that means my opinion, but I will say. Let us do without a transatlantic delirium. you will not be able to contain all of this war in one company. I suggest to divide it into a few parts and produce in turn.
1 Blickrig- summer company of 1941, sudden assault on the USSR. Chaos, disorder, surroundings of soviet troops, first fight with T-34, defensive of Smolensk, battle for Moscow.
2 Stalingrad- defensive on approaches, barrage detachments NKVD (but shooting were rare, almost always soldiers were returned back, often treated shots in air), fights for every meter of earth, heroic defensive of Stalingrad, surroundings and elimination 6 armies of German.
3 Kursk battle- defensive of 3 lines of strengthening (it is possible to create even missions on creation of strengthening and mining), counterblows of soviet tank corps, breach of the last border of defensive (Prokhorovka) the German troops of SS, largest tank battle under Prokhorovkoy, surroundings of the German tank divisions of SS, battle for Kharkov.
4 Forcing of Dnepr- battle for Ukraine, liberation of Kiev and other cities.
5 Operation of Bagration- the brilliant planned operation of giving orders to the USSR and Stalin in strict secrecy. Liberation of Byelorussia one quick as lightning blow.
6 Germany, Poland and Berlin- liberation of Poland, battles in Germanium, assault of Zelovskikh of heights, battle for Berlin.
Can I help, missions are created in the editor of maps?
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Mates, I don't get it... So when is EF placed in time? In years 1941-1945, or just 1944? In vCoH it's easy to guess, but in EF?
I think that making "1941-45" campaign is not so good as it seems. Leningrad, Stalingrad, Kursk, Berlin... You want all of them in one campaign. Just look at vCoH campaigns - US and Brits campaign is not "whole war campaign". Soviet campaign should focus on one, maybe two big battles - let's say Stalingrad and Kursk, or last 12 months of war - operation Bagration and straight through the Poland to Berlin.
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You misunderstood me. I said that it would be better to split the company into several smaller ones. Company about 1941, the company has about Stalingrad, Kursk, about the company and so on.
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-Bout Enemy at the Gates---> In the trash
Modified
Sincerly
Apologies for not making further research
Sorry for the trouble
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This is nonsense, and not a movie. Units of the NKVD had already existed. Rifles were many. And most importantly, the Soviet troops fought a defensive war, but not offensive. The Soviet soldiers in Stalingrad, no rifles, they were given automatic "PPSH" and flamethrowers for urban fighting. The fighting there were in each house.The Germans fought for one house, more than Poland, but for one street more than the whole of France. The one who smarter and smarter. Very important was the unarmed combat, our soldiers used a sharp spade. The Germans did not like the melee, and all the forces wanted to avoid. In Stalingrad, several Soviet divisions kept the whole German army.
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ENEMA AT THE DOOR: an Foreigner Will Not Notice, a Russian Will Not Forgive (http://www.battlefield.ru/en/hall-of-shame/206-enemy-at-the-gates.html)
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.. I see. Looks like another 1 in a trash bin
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I propose to use the beautiful moments and ideas from the Soviet and Russian films.
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I propose to use the Russian documentaries. UeArtemis, you watched the series "Great War"?
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I'm curious why nearly every thread in the last time quickly turns into an "Enemy at the Gates"-hate-thread.
I think it's OK to tell the DEVs once, that the way soviet soldiers are depicted is EFmod are an "insult" to some russian people.
But then the DEVs explained more than once that EFmod wants to keep the "spirit of vCoH", meaning that not everything has to be completly realistic and that they choose entertainment over historical accuracy.
In the end, I just couldn't resist to comment the article:
The way the author starts, looks like he thinks that Saving Private Ryan is realistic in some way, which is just plain bullshit.
Then he goes on to rant about uniforms, ranks and names and seems to completly forget that this movie is for the avarage western viewer, who has no clue about such things and propably gets confused if they were too realistic or even worse: He won't find the movie cool. After all it's still a commercial project, not a historical documentary.
He justify his rant against the NKVD "blocking detachment" with "In Rome, they did it do!", which is just no argument. Or should we forget about the KZs because of soviet Gulags?
May it be my little knowledge of the English language, but he never said that NKVD "blocking detachments" didn't existed and it seems that the author realist that such things actually happened and he therefore couldn't say "bloody lie".
I also find it funny when he believed that every russian inhabitant was a "good communist" and never cared for their own life but all for Mother Russia's wealth. (I refer to the lines about "Sasha's mother".)
...
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Full delirium, brain washing in the west is in full swing. The Soviet people fought to a man against his will. And what was he to do? None of the people of the world could not endure that made our nation. 27 million dead, and of these only 8 million were killed at the front. 19-20 million civilians were killed by the Nazis. Old men, women and children, this horror was not in the history of mankind. What are we supposed to do but fight? Our country has constantly been in ruins, half of the world has come to our land with arms in their hands. If necessary, we will defend segdnya whine country from you, or Chinese. Your statements about the fun and laughter are an insult to our people and our victory. Do not you have won this war, we stopped the German army, to us, no one could beat her.
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Totally off topic,
But the most devastating losses from the Allies in WW2 were suffered by Greece, that's if you take in mind the percentages of total population/losses.
:(
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I propose to use the Russian documentaries. UeArtemis, you watched the series "Great War"?
No, I don't. But I like the "Hot Snow".
Did Relic see Soviet films? :) Commandos on the River
Commandos on the River (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d48R3XHdavw&feature=related#lq-lq2-hq)
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The crossing of the Dnieper from the "Liberation"? One of the bloodiest battles of the war, I would have devoted to this battle, and each such separate company.
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I'm sorry if I insulted you and Russia, InkvizitoR_51rus. I never had the intention to do so. I also never wanted to deny that Russia and all other Nazi-occupied countries suffered a lot under Hitler and his followers. :(
I also think that soviet Russia was the main factor to final end the Third Reich.
However, I can't understand why some Russians today still believe every Russian in that time, 70 years ago, "fought for their land" and never spent a single thought on his own life and wealth. This would of course also mean, that maybe there were Russians who worked together with the Axis, because of their own life, were forced to do so or they simply didn't agree with Stalin and his policy...
BTW: Even if Relic watched Soviet films, it wouldn't matter. Relic didn't created the Red Army, nore the Eastern Front in CoH. A brilliant mod team did and still do that. :)
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I mean, the other Russian mentality. We used to work and serve for their country, and not for themselves. Perhaps it is negative by our side. When the Soviet Union collapsed, Russia and other countries have begun to chaos.
Now the country's corruption, the government does not care about us, army and navy collapse. All sold, pensions and wages are low. This is what happens to us if we have democracy in the country, in Russia simply can not be democracy. Better to let a leader with brains than a herd of dumb asses, officials, stealing our money. The largest and resource-rich country, and live in poverty.
That is why democracy we do not like. Most importantly, our dignity, to rise in one breath, fight together against the invaders, which is why no one could have won.
Returning to the subject company. For the majority of Russian, this war is sacred, and many pity that the developers let the mass of our guys on the machine guns. What prevents them from doing our group and the company is realistic? The balance will suffer?
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Not so bad it was. In my native Ukraine was relatively good after the collapse of the Soviet Union, unlike in other countries, where were civil wars, rebellions. Only in the 21 century the Orange Revolution came and then troubles began. But this is offtopic.
Yes, it is really the sacred war for most of ex-Soviet people. Usually in the CIS people for whom this war is "alien", have an ideology what is close to Nazism. (Ultranationalism, not confuse with nationalism and patriotism)
In the east people wait to see how developers will make this heroic, sacred atmosphere.
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Yushchenko is nice you have in Ukraine annealed. We all fear was in 1990-2003. My father, Russian army officer, lived in a remote garrison in the north. Penny was paid $ 150 a month salary of a Russian officer rank of Captain. Money for food was not, eating a potato.
Okay, let's not about sad. I have engaged a company has good experience from other games. And with what it do? Map editor?
Ющенко конечно хорошо у вас на Украине отжигал. У нас вообще ужас был в 1990-2003 годах. Мой отец- офицер российской армии, жили в дальнем гарнизоне на севере. Платили копейки- 150$ в месяц зарплата российского офицера звания Капитан. Интересно сколько зарабатывают офицеры США. Денег на еду не было, ели одну картошку.
Ладно, не будем о грустном. Я бы занялся компанией, опыт благо есть из других игр. А с помощью чего её делать? Редактора карт?
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There is a built-in map editor and manuals in English, which can be found on the official Relic forums.
P.S. Ah, I remember, I ate cod liver in 1992 :) every day :)
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Jesus, people, stop being so butthurt. Eastern Front is not a simulator, and Enemy at the Gates was not a documentary. Stop being all indignant and all "THIS IS AN INSULT TO MOTHER RUSSIA!"
According to the media, WWII American soldiers were all uneducated peasants led by blood-thirsty officers, the French were cowardly cheese-eating surrendering monkeys (or blood-thirsty cheese-eating psychopaths when they are the Resistance), the British were tea-sipping douchebags, the Canadians... were not even there, and the Japs and the Germans... the less we talk about them, the better.
But we take it all in good stride because... this is a video-game. Not a text book in our schools.
Explain why the devs of Eastern Front, a mod made for fun with no economic support behind, based on Company of Heroes, an unrealistic, fast-paced RTS with base building and "GERMAN STEEL!"-screaming Nagtsis, should bend backwards to your wishes and make a realistic representation of what you think Russia was like back then.
Which was probably not any close to what you think anyway.
If you want something different from what the mod offers, here is an idea: LEARN TO CODE, AND MAKE YOUR OWN MOD.
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back about campaign, and super-heroism ?
why not altern one sov mission and one germ mission ?
the campaign i ever saw is not history but starcraft1 by the way, where unit are gradually deployed, army suffer while working their aim, against time and casualties, on goood maps
and doctrines are here to choose the style
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OFF-TOPIC
The Mod in itself follows the guidelines of what Company of Heroes is all about. I have no complaints except that nobody online is ever playing it.
ON-TOPIC
My idea:
RED ARMY FACTION : LEVEL I
I. Back, Back, Back
I. Operation Barbarossa is in full effect. Comrade Stalin was caught napping and now the Soviets are paying for it. Soviet infantry on occupied Poland are being slaughtered left right by the Luftwaffe and the incoming Panzer Groups. The mission here is two-fold. Survive, and, as ordered by your superiors, ensure as many of your brethren survive as possible.
Objectives
1. Maintain the Front as long as possible while other units retreat. (4 minutes)
2. Hold back the Wehrmacht from taking the road as long as possible.
3. Retreat back to the junction and hold it as long as possible.
Secondary Objectives
1. Protect Comrade Kuzichinko's damaged T-34 until its repaired.
And that will be kind of the " How the Soviet's play " level.
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Jesus, people, stop being so butthurt. Eastern Front is not a simulator, and Enemy at the Gates was not a documentary. Stop being all indignant and all "THIS IS AN INSULT TO MOTHER RUSSIA!"
According to the media, WWII American soldiers were all uneducated peasants led by blood-thirsty officers, the French were cowardly cheese-eating surrendering monkeys (or blood-thirsty cheese-eating psychopaths when they are the Resistance), the British were tea-sipping douchebags, the Canadians... were not even there, and the Japs and the Germans... the less we talk about them, the better.
But we take it all in good stride because... this is a video-game. Not a text book in our schools.
Explain why the devs of Eastern Front, a mod made for fun with no economic support behind, based on Company of Heroes, an unrealistic, fast-paced RTS with base building and "GERMAN STEEL!"-screaming Nagtsis, should bend backwards to your wishes and make a realistic representation of what you think Russia was like back then.
Which was probably not any close to what you think anyway.
If you want something different from what the mod offers, here is an idea: LEARN TO CODE, AND MAKE YOUR OWN MOD.
They arent "all indignant", they are just noticing some fact.
I'm French and I never hear media saying "WWII American soldiers were all uneducated peasants led by blood-thirsty officers, the French were cowardly cheese-eating surrendering monkeys (or blood-thirsty cheese-eating psychopaths when they are the Resistance), the British were tea-sipping douchebags, the Canadians... were not even there". Its only "joke" prejudice about these soldier.
Of course in France we have our prejudice about "La France Résistante", "la pause thé des Anglais" and others... But in fact we know that without the help of Commonwealth, USA and Resistance, France would be a sad part of Germany. We know precisely how the war was in the West, and I think that other allied nation know this too. But we dont know so much about the fight in the East. I remember that a History teacher tell me in my highschool that the soviet DID fight in Stalingrad with 1 rifle for 2 men (!!!!) , according to recent work of western historian (just like Beevor), and that "red army was a bunch of uneducated communist savage" (almost the same sentence as you Saavedra, funny ist'n it?). I was certain he was about to glorify Werhmacht...
I understand that EF is a (well-made) mod made without economic support behind, and dev want people to play it with fun. But it would be interesting if we can have a more "realistic" campaign, without western prejudice about USSR and Red Army. I know these from plenty of other game about this, and for me its going to be boring :( There are some good idea here about both german and soviet side, I hope dev will pick up these for the campaign :D
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The devs will probaby make it more focused of entertainment value rather than historical accuracy. If it was based solely on history CoH would be a heck of a lot less fun than it is. Point being war isnt all that its cracked up to be. So sit back and trust the devs to make a good compromise. Its nothing to get worked up about.
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I dont know if s1 posted something similar in here, i didnt want to read through all of the pages ;)
But how about a Campaign based on the Film Duell-Enemy at the Gates.
Your Mission is to Kill the German Sharpshooter. You will only have 1 Unit, your Sniper Ace (Wassili Saizew) and have to eliminate serveral Targets, Officers, MG-Crews, Mortars... Well then you meet your Oponent (Scharfschütze König), and of course you have to eliminate him. Now so that it gets challenging König could get the health of a Captain from OF, he wouldnt be 1 shot dead like that. But you will have to watch for enemy soldiers witch could spot you, so you will have to move. Then wait until enemy sniper moves a tiny bit so you spot him (could be done by leaving camo for 1 or 2 sec). You have to fire out of cover otherwise you get uncapped (idk if possible).
Well only a rogh concept of a Campaign but maybe usable.
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I think a campaign covering the key points in the German invasion of Russia would be suited.
Choosing where to start and finish it will be difficult, but i do know that Berlin, Stalingrad and Kursk should be covered.
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IMO< the major battles i'd like to see would be...
1941: Minsk
1942: Moscow, Leningrad, Stalingrad early
1943: Stalingrad, Kursk
1944: Steamroll through Poland, Siege on Budapest,
1945: Seelow Hieghts, Berlin.
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I think that the best idea would be to wait until Ostheer comes out. Then think about campaign like that: Ostheer campaign 1941-1943 ( to Kursk battle) and then Soviet one 1943-1945.
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I got some ideas:
Level 1: your command squad and a couple of conscript squads are in trenches when they hear the germans have invaded the SU, now you have to fight off some german attacks.
After a few minutes the german tanks come and you will be forced to retreat to a defensive line further to east. some ZIS-2s will be waiting there and together with some cpu allies you can hold the line. If the major dies the mission will have failed.
After fighting off the attacks a german plane will come and wounds the major/commisar, then the mission ends.
Level 2: After waking up the major finds himself in a hospital in moscow, just when the battle for the city is beginning.
ignoring all advice he and a few upgraded conscript squads will get to the front line and assist the other forces defending moscow. just as the germans have a breakthrough some t-34s will arrive and the cpu ally will force the gemans to retreat.
unless before that time the lines of the players side has collapsed than the mission has failed.
Level 3:
After his heroic defense of moscow the major has been promoted and controlles the whole south-west front.
In october 1942 the germans launch an attack on stalingrad.
meanwhile the t-34 production has increased greatly, so the cpu and the player will have a few t-34s at the beginning of the game.
for the most part you will have conscripts but now you will also have strelky.
the first defensive line is just outside the city and is offmap.
the second line of defense will be manned by the cpu.
the third line of defense is for the player.
not having enough troops to fully garrison the line the player will have to make a choise:
spread the force over the whole line.
or defend a part of the line.
After the second line collapses the third line will be everything that stands in the way of the germans advance in the south. If the germans break through the third line and reach the volga, before operation uranus, the encirclement of the 6th army, is launched, you will be defeated.
Level 4:
After they're painfull defeat in stalingrad the germans launch operation citadel, te last desperate attempt to defeat the soviets. this time the germans wil have panthers and tigers,
but, again, the t-34 production has increased an you will have a lot of t-34s. this time you will not have conscripts but only strelky and guards. you will have to defend the area untill the german are out of reserves, you will get 1 t-34 every 5 minutes as reinforcements. if all of your troops will be destroyed or if you lose too much ground the mission will have failed.
the last german attack wave will be some panthers and a tiger. if you beat off that wave, the germans are forced to retreat to the west.
Level 5:
The Crimean offensive:
Following their defeats at stalingrad and kursk, the germans have been driven back to the west.
And now the Crimean penninsular is cut-off from the rest of army-group south, and the 17th army is trapped.
the last defendible piece of land is the area arround Sevastopol, but the germans are dug-in in defensive lines and aren't going to give up without a fight.
its the players task to break all german resistence on the penninsular, you have to break trough the final line off defense.
if broken the germans are forced to evacuate. if the stavka thinks you have taken too much time to do so the mission has failed.
Level 6:
After the allmost entire annhialation of army group center, it's the players task to force a critical breaktrough against a collapsed front, therefore you must reach the Oder river, but the germans have blown-up all but one bridges.
You must secure this bridge and defend it against the last desparate counter-attack, with allmost all the german panzer-reserves. if you can hold this brigde the germans can only retreat and berlin will be a bit closer.
Level 7:
After their retreat throuh poland the germans are determined to make a last stand just outside of berlin. this time they will be on the defense. seelow is the last line of defense, if you can break this line the way to berlin will be open. you start with strelky, guards, t-34s and t-34-85s.
you must break the seelow line. if all german resistence is crushed you win, if you loose al your tanks you will be defeated.
Level 8:
After the fall of the seelow line the germans are fleeing to the west, the only way to stop them is the encirclement of berlin. you and your allies must break all resistence and join the other russian forces coming from the other side.
Level 9:
Berlin, april 1945.
You must destroy all 88s near the brandenburger tor and the reichstag, but first you have to clean the surrounding streets of germans, mostly volksgrenadiers. after this the way to the reichtag is open and you will be victorious but the germans have a nasty supprise for you: 3 88s on the square in front of the reichstag. you mst destroy them before the time is up, or all your tanks are destroyed, after the destruction of the 88s you must get a squad of infantry into the reichstag. then the germans are defeated and you will become a hero of the soviet union.
Maybe its not 100% historical correct but this is my idea of the soviet campaign.
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I got some ideas:
Level 1: your command squad and a couple of conscript squads are in trenches when they hear the germans have invaded the SU, now you have to fight off some german attacks.
After a few minutes the german tanks come and you will be forced to retreat to a defensive line further to east. some ZIS-2s will be waiting there and together with some cpu allies you can hold the line. If the major dies the mission will have failed.
After fighting off the attacks a german plane will come and wounds the major/commisar, then the mission ends.
Level 2: After waking up the major finds himself in a hospital in moscow, just when the battle for the city is beginning.
ignoring all advice he and a few upgraded conscript squads will get to the front line and assist the other forces defending moscow. just as the germans have a breakthrough some t-34s will arrive and the cpu ally will force the gemans to retreat.
unless before that time the lines of the players side has collapsed than the mission has failed.
Level 3:
After his heroic defense of moscow the major has been promoted and controlles the whole south-west front.
In october 1942 the germans launch an attack on stalingrad.
meanwhile the t-34 production has increased greatly, so the cpu and the player will have a few t-34s at the beginning of the game.
for the most part you will have conscripts but now you will also have strelky.
the first defensive line is just outside the city and is offmap.
the second line of defense will be manned by the cpu.
the third line of defense is for the player.
not having enough troops to fully garrison the line the player will have to make a choise:
spread the force over the whole line.
or defend a part of the line.
After the second line collapses the third line will be everything that stands in the way of the germans advance in the south. If the germans break through the third line and reach the volga, before operation uranus, the encirclement of the 6th army, is launched, you will be defeated.
Level 4:
After they're painfull defeat in stalingrad the germans launch operation citadel, te last desperate attempt to defeat the soviets. this time the germans wil have panthers and tigers,
but, again, the t-34 production has increased an you will have a lot of t-34s. this time you will not have conscripts but only strelky and guards. you will have to defend the area untill the german are out of reserves, you will get 1 t-34 every 5 minutes as reinforcements. if all of your troops will be destroyed or if you lose too much ground the mission will have failed.
the last german attack wave will be some panthers and a tiger. if you beat off that wave, the germans are forced to retreat to the west.
Level 5:
After their retreat throuh poland the germans are determined to make a last stand just outside of berlin. this time they will be on the defense. seelow is the last line of defense, if you can break this line the way to berlin will be open. you start with strelky, guards, t-34s and t-34-85s.
you must break the seelow line. if all german resistence is crushed you win, if you loose al your tanks you will be defeated.
Level 6:
After the fall of the seelow line the germans are fleeing to the west, the only way to stop them is the encirclement of berlin. you and your allies must break all resistence and join the other russian forces coming from the other side.
Level 7:
Berlin, april 1945.
You must destroy all 88s near the brandenburger tor and the reichstag, but first you have to clean the surrounding streets of germans, mostly volksgrenadiers. after this the way to the reichtag is open and you will be victorious but the germans have a nasty supprise for you: 3 88s on the square in front of the reichstag. you mst destroy them before the time is up, or all your tanks are destroyed, after the destruction of the 88s you must get a squad of infantry into the reichstag. then the germans are defeated and you will become a hero of the soviet union.
+1 Very good suggestion, Kamerad. Btw, welcome to EF forum! ;)
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Level 3
Lol thats a big promation.
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Indeed it is, mayby its too big.
How about commander of the Stalingrad front?
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i hope that this will get into campaign
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Dukla_Pass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Dukla_Pass)
it was bloody battle, many Slovak partisans fight there...
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Theres a big gap between Stalingrad and Seelow line, mabey 2 more missions?