Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Suggestions => Ostheer Suggestions => Topic started by: Venoxxis on February 11, 2010, 02:54:51 AM
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[size=8]The Ostheer[/size]
One Hell Of A Concept
by Venoxxis
(1) General thoughts
Hello there,
first of all i gotta say that i want the Ostheer to be unique. I want it to go on its very own. Thats the most important of all. The Ostheer has to be something else than the other german faction not just a mixture. I read a lot of great concepts already, but finally i made the decision to write one on my own.
I did my best to create a unique and also clear concept.
First of all, i will try to answer some upcoming questions
1. Will the Ostheer use commando trucks, like brits do as well?!
In gerneral, no they wont. The first reason is, that the brits gotta stay unique, thats very important. On the other hand, that idea doenst fit in the "german style".
But well, the guys who love trucks will have fun with the Artillary Ware Doctrine which can call in a truck to support his art units! more .. later on!
2. How does the Ostheer build up their base than?!
The Ostheer uses the Sd.Kfz 9 to build up heavy structures and light ones with every kind of infantery.
3. Okk .. alright man, but hey! how the heck do they receive veterancy?
I thought very long about that. There were a lot of good suggestions about that. To make them get new abilities and more power via several veterancy levels for example. I love that idea, but i think that its too much work to do for every unit than, and it would be another vet-sys with 3 levels.
So i came up to the idea, for the reason of simplicity and coolness, that the ostheer recieves only one veterancy level.
In general, call it "ACE-level". It is reached ~ when PE guys reach Vet lvl2. Becoming a ace, the units reveice armour-, attack bonus (a lil less than vet3 of the wehr) and one special thing as well.
Infantry for example, receives a Feldwebel for their squard to give them several bonuses'.
Paks or Inf. support units gain a armour piercing shot, which they can use for no ammo over a short period of time.
Tanks like the Tiger I for example can now switch between HE and AP shells.
4. But can they pick up weapons?
No, because it isnt possible for the reasons of coding problems.
5. Can they upgrade neutral buildings to something!?
Yes, they can upgrade it to a foreign infantry HQ. This way you can call partisans from the front right to the front!
6. Just one very last question than! how do these guys secure sectors?
When you got a sector, you can upgrade it when your infantry is close to it to get more profit!
(2) Buildings, Units and Upgrades
The Ostheer techs up with an tech-up upgrade IN a specific building. These upgrades are pritty expensive but will be completed very fast, so think about which upgrade you choose! This gives your Sd.Kfz 9 the ability to build the next building.
Teching starts IN the Infantry Kommando Ost, before that you can build without teching (look at the arrows, its easy to understand).
For example if you got the Infantry Kommando Ost you can tech up for the Panzer Warefare Commando OR the Infantry Support commando.
This is mostly the part of a concept, where clarity is gone far away, thats why i got that lil graphic of their techtree for you. Just always follow the arrows if you wanna know what building you need to get the next one with the techupgrade. Note: You dont need the Panzer Warefare Commando & the Infantry Support commando to techup to the Hall of GermanSteel.
(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8696/ostheertechtreeteching.png)
Lets get started, with the
HQ - Headquarters of the Ostheer
The heard of the Ostheer. Here they call their first units to take over the first sectors. Also this is the only building, which can call in Sd.Kfz 9's to build up your main structures.
Buildable Units:
- Landserzug
5 men squard. equipped with the K98.
they can build uplight defensive structures, like sandbags. Also, they can
throw granades for some ammo.
-> later on you can upgrade them with
- one Panzerschreck (if you got the Panzer Warfare Commando)
- with mp40's (if you got the Infantry Support Commando)
-Sd.Kfz 9.
The vehicle to build up your buildings with. for the reason of
balance, it doesnt have any weapons. when produced it
rolles in from outside of the map!
Abilities/upgrades:
- 200mm of pure steel
gives you the ability to call in a Jagdpanzer "Ferdinant"
from outside of the map.
Requiers: All buldings, and the tank support upgrade "Ostketten".
highly expensive beast!
Just one at the same time, slighty more powerfull than a
Tiger, and better armour!
right after calling in the first Sd.Kfz 9, you can build the
German Engineer Hall
Here the german engineers and their mechanics can repair your tanks and vehicles.
Also, you can develop basic upgrades for the Ostheer here:
Abilities/upgrades:
- Einstoßflammenwerfer 46
From now on, your Landerzug can use "Einstoßflammenwerfer"
to burn down enemy infantry.
Its a cheap upgrade, and is the new way to counter enemy granades!
- field repair
with this upgrade, your assault team (buildable in
the attack support HQ) can repair tanks!
- Take the red tanks! - Beutepanzer.
this upgrade gives you the ability to salvage enemy tanks!
But it takes very long, because we dont know anything about these soviet tanks..
Ostheer T-34 go go!
Also, the assault team can salvage our own tanks now.
-> very expensive upgrade, but sometimes its surely usefull.
- Ostketten
Gives your tanks new, better curb chains to handle
the mud and snow of the russian outlands!
-> faster on mud/snow!
-> the chains dont brake anymore!
- Feldlazarett (field hospital)
Your medic team can build up Feldlazaretts right at the front,
to restock your units!
with the first Sd.Kfz, you can build up also the
Infantry Kommando - OST
Here we got our basic infantry units. And its the root of the Techtree.
Buildable units:
- Kübelwagen
The Ostheers new support unit has got a MG 34 to support
your infantry and flank the one of your enemy.
MrScruff had a model just like this once, but for some reason i dont want to display it here.
- MG 34
heavy, tripod MG. lower firerate than the MG42, but also less
expensive!
- the lelG (leichtes infrantrie geschütz)
The most flexible unit for sure, its 75mm canon can be used as a mortal
AND as a early game PAK as well!
Its 4 men crew just got 4 K98, so be sure to support it very well!
Thanks to Lord Rommel for this mindblowing idea!
- Spion (spy of the eastern front)
The Ostheers new answer to a one man show, they dont need another sniper,
they got a spy which is useable in many ways.
-> place booby traps
-> got demoliton charges
-> can camouflage, walks a bit slower than, but not as slow as the snipers do.
-> binoculars
-> can build up camouflaged monitoring points.
Upgrades/tech-up pool:
here you decide which upgrade you wanna use, to get in the next tech level. You can choose both, but both are expensive, so take a good choise for the first one.
- Panzer Warfare Techup
----> makes the Panzer Warfare Kommando buildable! (Sd.Kfz 9)
- Infantry Support Techup
----> makes the Infantry Support Kommando buildable!
After developing the Panzer Warfare techup in the Infantry Kommando, your Sd.Kfz can build the
Panzer Warfare Kommando
Basicly, this Kommando is a support building for your upcoming tanks, and a defensive building against enemy tanks.
Buildable units:
- Assault team
Basic 3-man anti tank unit. They are equipped with 1 powerfull Panzerschreck
and 2 G43. These guys are pritty hard to kill, even if they
are just 3 men.
-> can be upgraded with the ability to throw "Hohlladungen"
- Panzer II (Luchs)
Anti inf. tank, bad armour but doing great damage to enemy infantry!
- Sdkfz 251/22 - 7.5 cm PaK40
This is the primary anti tank weapon of the ostheer,
you can compare it to a "geschützwagen". the massive pak40
mounted on a halftrack!
-> can camouflage.
-> slower than usual halftracks for the reason of balance.
Upgrades/tech-up pool:
- Hall of GermanSteel techup
----> makes the Hall of GermanSteel buildable!
After developing the Infantry Support techup in the Infantry Kommando, your Sd.Kfz can build the
Infantry Support Kommando
With this building, you got the ability to build anti infrantry units
and infantry support units.
Buildable units:
- Warden of the Reich
Powerfull infantry unit with a 4-men squard.
They got 4 Mp40 already, to knock even the best russian infantry.
-> 2 man of them can be upgraded with the light mg 34
-> they can throw granade bundles for ammo!
- medication team/"first care" - team
A 3-men squard with 2 K98, the 3rd guy provids first care for your troops.
But you need to settle it down first, to heal nearby troops!
look out for these guys, they are usefull but easy to kill!
but remember, they can only heal!
restocking works without a "feldlazarett" (look at the upgrades)
only nearly the HQ!
- Sd.Kfz 10 - troop carrier
With this halftrack-like vehicle you can transport your infantry very fast right to the front.
Also, it can heal nearby units if you got a medic team inside! But just heal, not restock them! dont forget about that!
Upgrades/tech-up pool
- Hall of GermanSteel techup
----> makes the Hall of GermanSteel buildable!
After teching up in the Infantry Support Kommando or the Panzer Warfare Kommando, your Sd.Kfz can finally build the
Hall of GermanSteel
This is the building which usually ends up a battle.
Because nothing can withstand German Steel.
Buildable units:
which units are buildable for you here,
depends on your further decision of
which techup building you used.
If you got both buildings, than every unit + one extra unit is available for you.
The neutral unit:
One unit is available for both buildings, the universal tank of the Ostheer, the
- Panzer III (i wont name any "Ausführungen" because the orignial game also didnt do that)
The cheap Panzer III rolls out of the Hall of GermanSteel
with the universal 50mm short barrelled canon. But to give
this tank its multi-tasking ability you can upgrade it with
several things:
-> the universal "Seitenschürzen" upgrade
-> the upgrade to a short barred 75mm canon,
which shoots HE shells!
This upgrade is fine for a tank based gamer,
coming out of the Panzer Warfare Kommando and gets
killed by enemy infantry.
-> the upgrade to a longbarreled 50mm canon, which
shoots AP shells!
this upgrade is perfect for a infantry based gamer,
coming out of the Infantry support Kommando, which
needs anti-tank support now.
I think with this concept we can get the most usefull Panzer III - just as usefull as it should be :) !
The Panzer Warfare unit:
This unit is buildable, when you come from the
Panzer Warfare Kommando right into the Hall of GermanSteel.
- The Marder II
Pure Anti tank weapon. The Marder II is just slighty worse
than its big brother the Marder III. Just like the Marder III,
you gotta settle down first! russain t-34 are no
match for this tank, if well sopported.
The Infantry Support unit:
Coming from the Infantry Support Kommando right into
the Hall of German Steel, you can build the
- Brummbär
This is one hell of a anti infantry weapon. But also light
vehicles get smashed away by the 150mm canon. its slighty worse
armoured than the russain KV-2, and can withstand also
some anti tank fire.
The lategame Unit:
If you wanna build this unit, you need both buildings - the
Panzer Warfare Kommando & the Infantry Support Kommando.
Surely you need one building where the Hall of GermanSteel techup is developed already.
- Panzer V - Panther
The main battle tank of the germans in later war years.
Its trusty, its powerfull, its germansteel!
Note: If you choose the Steamroller Doctrine The
Tiger I will become buildable as well.
- Tiger I
One hell of a legendary Tank. There was no other Tank which
brought so much fear into the heards of its enemys. This tank can
dominate the battlefield and is deadly against inf. and tanks
with its powerfull 8.8 as well.
-> if you got a tiger ace (via veterancy), you will get a skinchange to the
fearsome Black Skin known from the campaign.
-> Only 2 tigers at the same time on the battlefield are allowed.
(3) Doctrines
My ideas, where everything did start from. I didnt want to have any boring doctrines,
so i created cool guys, to rule the battlefield in a very unique way.
Lord Rommel was the one who said once that the Dotrines are the head of a faction, just the head.
Well, yea Rommel was right, so i wrote a whole concept now :)
There is no any ability which i just took from a existing faction. Also i totally reworked
my existing Docs. Its just new, look!
(http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/7752/newsteanrollerdoctrine.png)Steamroller Doctrine
This doctrine simply smashes his enemies away. He is using
the heaviest german armour and the heat of flames in every
variety to strike fear into the hearts of his enemies. And at least, simply to roll over these.
(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/1082/steamrollerdoc.png)
left side:
Oil production
For 70 ammo, you will get for
2 minutes 25% more oil!
Panzerjäger Jagdpanzer IV
A powerfull Jagdpanzer IV can
now be called on the battlefield,
very well armed, and great armour.
Tigerphobia
Tiger tanks can now be
produced in your tank hall. They
will replace the Panther! a max. of 2
vehicles can be build at the same time.
right side:
Totenkopf-Kampfgruppe (3 men)
Call in soldiers with no any fear.
They got StG44 right at start,
-> they can strike fear into the heards of their enemies,
so you can suppress one enemy squard.
-> for ammo, you can shoot the futuristic Panzerfast 100!
Flamethrower for the Reich
Totenkopfgruppe can be equipped with Flamethrowers now,
also you can upgrade the Panzer III now to a Flamethrower tank!
Feuersturm (Firestorm)
upon the targeted area, JU-87 can unleash
a firestorm now.
(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/3996/newstrongholddoctrinedo.png) Stronghold Doctrine
This doctrine is specializied in defensive war. He can set
up the heaviest emplacements with his German Engineers.
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/518/ostwalldoc.png)
left side:
Engineer Superiority
Upgrades in the german eng. hall are less
expensive now, and the machnics do fast repairs now.
Better Observation Posts
From now on your OP's
will give doubled amount
of the normal resources.
Grille Artillerieschlag
Call a heavy artillerie strike from
outside of the map.
Right Side:
German Diplom Ingineur
Call in a well educated German Dipl. Ing.
This officer-like unit is bad armed, but it gives
you serveral new options, just like a british commander
gives your units leadership. He can climb in the Sd.Kfz 9's,
to gives you new building options.
These Sd.Kfz will now be albed to build:
-> heavy roadblocks
-> Bunkers
-> a medic stadion (medics who carry hurt soldiers to the
station to set up a new squad.)
Pantherturm (Panthertower)
Sd.Kfz 9 with a Dipl. Ing. inside
are now abled to build a powerfull pantherturm.
Mortal Bunker
A Dipl. Ing. gives your Sd.Kfz 9 the ability to build
a very well armored mortal bunker. Only one bunker
can be build at the same time.
Surrounded units can be restocked.
Also it can be used as a retreating point.
The bunker is well armed as well with its heavy mortal
at the top. snipers cant kill these
units.
The bunker can hold 15 man or 4 units.
-> it can be upgraded with a "heal-upgrade"
which heals the surrounded units.
(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/7966/newartillarywarfaredoct.png)Artillery Warfare Doctrine
Finally, the germas get a real artillery doctrine. I took a lot of effort into this guy,
to make it the guy it should be. This is one hell of a Doctrine!
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3278/artillarywarfaredoc2.png)
Left side:
Artillirie Support Truck
Call in a light support truck, which can
be set down at the targeted area.
In the truck you can recrute a "Artillerietruppe-Ost"
which can built light difensive structures like sand bags,
trenches or "panzersperren" to defend their art emplacements.
Also they can build smal mortal bunkers, to give you the first
artillery superiority advantage.
Available upgrades in the truck:
- light art. strike
to defend itself from enemy infantry.
- Artillery supiority
This upgrade gives art. emplacements which are build in the
area of the art. support truck more rage and more precision.
Only one truck at the same time!
15cm sFH 18.
The artillerietruppe ost can now built powerfull sFH 18 emplacements.
Father Of All Guns
Call a single shot af the "Schwere Gustav" from outside of the map.
Impact compareable to the V1 - costs are as well compareable. Big Boom!
Propaganda war!
-> you can use it again and again, but just one shot at a time calling it!
Right side:
"Präzisionsschuss" (single, very precisonal shot)
Artillery and mortal units can shoot with "Großtreibladungen" one single
very precisonal shot with massive damage and great rage. (for mortals it costs ammo).
- Roaring Brummbär
Gives the Brummbär the ability to shoot highly explosive shells for
a short period of time.
Thor Hammerschlag (only one /game)
The utimate propaganda weapon of the eastern front "Gerät 040" (60cm mortal) can now
be called on the battlefield. Units in its area cant be pinned because
of the presence of the enormous mortal. Surely the slowest unit ingame, but once it stands
well suported infront of the enemy base this mortal will shoot it down with its super
heavy granades.
This isnt just another art. unit, it has special abilities and always just shoots only
one shell, which makes it really unique. Before you can shoot, you always have to settle
down first. Than you can dicide between 2 kind of munition:
- The "Botongranate" (cement granade) -no costs.
Very powerfull against buildings, but also powerfull
against infantry and tanks if it doesnt
miss these, because its very inacurate.
- High explosive shell - costs ammo.
very expensive deathbringer for every kind of infantry in
the targeted area. It also damages
buildings and tanks. Big Boom!
(4) Reward units:
If some of you got some orignial ideas as well,
just post them. Im interested in "foreign" tanks as reward units.
- Raketen-Panzerbüchse 43 nicked "Püppchen (eng: Dolly)"
Replacing: leIG18
Unlike the leIG this weapon is just able to fight enemy tanks,
its something like a early game pak, more effective like the leIG
in tank hunting for sure. It shoots 88mm rockets (!) similar to panzerschrecks!
Its way more orignial than the pak36.
take a look at it:
(http://thumb1.visualizeus.com/thumbs/09/10/03/bazooka,p%C3%BCppchen,rocket,rocket,weapon,secret,weapon,ww,2,ww,ii,ww2,wwii-327c89b5f8f7cd86ca6bdabeab8ddfa7_m.jpg)
or here for a bigger image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Raketen-Panzerb%C3%BCchse_43_Normandy_P001135.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Raketen-Panzerb%C3%BCchse_43_Normandy_P001135.jpg)
- Panzer 35(t)
Replacing: Panzer II "Luchs"
Like the Panzer II, the czech tank is a light tank, which has less
anti Inf. power but more anti-tank power than the german tank.
In fact,You can use this one fighting early game tanks or armoured
cars with its 37mm KwK. To have some anti inf power as well,
the usefull czech tank got a MG as well.
Lets have a look at it:
(http://hosted.wargamer.com/Panzer/pz35t01.jpg)
- Sturer Emil
Replacing: Elefant (of the HQ)
This "Selbstfahrlafette" got the most powerfull anti tank gun of the whole war.
Only 2 where build, but they where the most successfull of their kind.
Long time ago, luz777 started a thread about this amazing unit,
and A LOT people liked it. I said once that it would be in my concept,
if i got one one day ;). and well, here i am.
With its modified 128mm Flak40, this tank will be the most powerfull tankhunter ingame, BUT - its armour is pretty weak. talking about armour, the Elefand is still much much better. So think about your choise.
(http://ww2armor.jexiste.fr/Files/Axis/Axis/1-Vehicles/Photos/Germany/4-TankDestroyers/SturerEmil/Photo-02.jpg)
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Special thanks goes to Lord Rommel who made me writing this somehow
and for bringing some awesome ideas in there with his
great knowlegde.
//Venoxxis
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Good work on developing a unique and usable Ostheer Venoxxis. I would play the Ostheer with this type of uniqueness. However, one thing on the Schewer Gustav. If you only get to shoot it once, while you can go grab the Terror Doctrine's V1 rocket and use it as much as you like, what incenttive will a player have to play that Doctrine for the Ostheer. I love the idea for using the Schewer Gustav, but it needs to be usable for players to want and use it.
On to other things, I like how none of the doctrines are like the other factions' doctrines. I would personally use the Stramroller Doctrine. The use of fire in war is something to enjoy using in a game. a flamethrower Panzer 3, and firebombs would make people who garrison units (conscript defense) run in fear.
Keep on the good work.
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Ferdinant is a great idea but it was to rare. It should be a doctrine call-in.
Landserzug suck.
6 men is too much for the axis.
3xK98 & 3xMP40 is not a good team. The squad wont good an any range. Thats why all infantry have rifles (+lmg) or smgs.
Spy - ;D my idea.
If an Assault team us an anti-tank unit, why does is need 2 MP44 upgrade (or even G43)?
Pak 40 (75mm) has to be an emplacement (like the 76,2mm 17lbs). Ist too heavy. 1 more man wont help. You need a horse! ;D
Warden of the Reich
Youre ifnantry was preaty good so far. Now you want to add a 4 man KCH squad with upgrades and granade bundles?
If it was a 2 man squad it would still be OP!
Sd.Kfz 10 - troop carrier
If its an ambulance then theres no room to carry troops.
A halftack that heals and reinforces units is OP. Even US, UK and Soviet buildings (stationary) cant do that.
Brummbär like the KV-2 should be a doctrine call-in.
Doctrines:
Oil production - where will all that oil come from? Romania cant produce enough allready.
Jagdpanzer IV - isnt that a stugIV with better frontal armor?
Hope it will have a Panthers gun upgrade.
Tigerphobia - i want the Tiger ace back. :(
Totenkopf-Kampfgruppe:
Another OP infantry. MP-44 were rare in WWII but most of youre infantry can have them. And whats with a 5 man squad?
Feuersturm (Firestorm) - there is a firestorm wermaht ability.
What will the JU-87 do? Drop a 1800kg bomb? Strafe with x2 3,7cm guns? Or will it just firestorm. ;D
Pantherturm - whats a Pantherturm? Is it OP?
Mortal Bunker:
Retreating and reinforce point, heavy mortat, MG, heal-upgrade...
Will it cost 1000MP/200fuel? :-\
Real artillery doctrinie?
Was the OP mortar and JU-87 "flying artillery not real enough?
...did you think about the balance even once?
Dont you know that without ballance the COH world will end?
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I wonder what the Devs think of it :D ! nice concepts btw.very unique
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Is it OP?
sorry man but i dont think you thought about much more than that.
As i can see, you didnt really read the concept so you came up to wrong "OP" conclusions. For example, show me where i said
that the medic team can recrew ppl? Nowhere! even if they are in the halftrack.
The only way to recrew out of your mainbase is to build up
a "feldlazarett" when you got the upgrade. This is much less
than OP man. just read!
"OP mortal" and Ju-87 is artillary?
hmhm .. i dont get the point here.
The mortal is just a mortal, its weak man. And its a late game unit. Its more a diffensive post than anything to attack with.
What does it has to do with artillary?
The Ju-87 does right what it says, it JUST releases a firestrom which works fine against enemy inf and buildings.
No any kind of artillary as well.
Okay enough of the negative facts of your post so far :p
You were also right about a lot of things, so thank you man.
Fixxed the infantry op problems, i agree with you.
Also i replaced the pak40, by a halftrack carring this AT
weapon ;) - it costs fuel now, but its also moveable now :)
Do you have any ideas for the spy man?
i was thinking about a sniper killer ability, but i didnt find one.
maybe you can do it ;)
Also it was a hard one for me to let the tiger ace go. :(
but man, you can get one still! with the GOing Ace veterancy system 8)
-> it will get a blackskin and a special ability, just read!
i know its a lot to read man ;) i would have done the same maybe.
thats it so far ;)
--------------------------------
Also huge thanks to the other guys replaying. maybe i wrote it a bit unconclusive, but you can shoot the schwerer gustav as often as you want. I added something to make it clearer now ;)
keep on critisizing the concept!
this way it gets better and better :D
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It looks nice, I will see which opinion will I have after reading.
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Nice concept, I really like it!
But, as usual, some things I don't like:
* Your Thor can't be part of CoH. It's even bigger than a HQ. Think of this giant thing, it would be too big for most maps and will make the game lagg. Also, the max amount of polys for a CoH-model is IIRC 6000. Almighty MrScruff once had a model for it and it was around 600.000 polys "big". ::)
* Like in most other concepts, I think there's too much inf in your concept. But as usual, it's only my opinion.
* I agree with Paciat, Landsers shouldn't have MP40 right at the beginning. Either all of them or only one man (the Zug/Gruppenführer) has one.
* No foreign call-ins? OK, not everybody wants to see them...
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Is it OP?
"OP mortal" and Ju-87 is artillary?
hmhm .. i dont get the point here.
The mortal is just a mortal, its weak man. And its a late game unit. Its more a diffensive post than anything to attack with.
What does it has to do with artillary?
The Ju-87 does right what it says, it JUST releases a firestrom which works fine against enemy inf and buildings.
No any kind of artillary as well.
Do you have any ideas for the spy man?
i was thinking about a sniper killer ability, but i didnt find one.
maybe you can do it ;)
[/i]
thats it so far ;)
Also huge thanks to the other guys replaying. maybe i wrote it a bit unconclusive, but you can shoot the schwerer gustav as often as you want. I added something to make it clearer now ;)
keep on critisizing the concept!
this way it gets better and better :D
"very well armored mortal bunker" is "weak"? Now I dont get it.
Ju-87 was called a flying artillery. But firestorm is a arti barrage (in COH). So my question is what bombs will Ju-87 drop?
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fixxed the landserzug problem.
@aouch
-> scruffy did something with this highly poly model once, as far as i know. we will see :p
We need a unique art unit. the only other thing, which would be as unique as this one is the sturmtiger, but it didnt really fight on the easternfront.
A call in wespe or grille would just be another hummel/priest.
would be cool if you could add a link to your "ostheer concepts" topic!
@ Paciat
-> Some Ju-87 will drop "Brandbomben" (firebombs) upon
the targeted area. either the BC 250 or the BC 500.
how many Ju-87 will be coming, depends on how strong they are. I mean its a balance issue, so i didnt mention any numbers.
The Bunker is weak in attacking, thats what i mean.
And you cant build it right away, you can build it just at the end of the techtree.
Without any support, paks and tanks blow this bunker away.
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It's the best concept yet.
I don't like only two things.
German Diplom Ingineur can climb in the Sd.Kfz 9's,
to gives you new building options.
-> trenches
I think that treches are unique for British. It's better to don't use trenches in Ostheer concept. In cobination with Wehr and Pe can be trenches really deadly.
Totenkopf-Kampfgruppe (5 men)
Call in soldiers with no any fear.
They got StG44 right at start,
later on you can upgrade them with 2 flamethrowers.
-> they can strike fear into the heards of their enemies,
so you can suppress one enemy squard.
-> for ammo, you can shoot the futuristic Panzerfast 100!
You can have those Supermen really fast in game. Commandos, best British infantry unit is for 3CPs, but those guys only for one CP.
Sorry for my English. My English isn't best.
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It's the best concept yet.
I don't like only two things.
German Diplom Ingineur can climb in the Sd.Kfz 9's,
to gives you new building options.
-> trenches
I think that treches are unique for British. It's better to don't use trenches in Ostheer concept. In cobination with Wehr and Pe can be trenches really deadly.
Totenkopf-Kampfgruppe (5 men)
Call in soldiers with no any fear.
They got StG44 right at start,
later on you can upgrade them with 2 flamethrowers.
-> they can strike fear into the heards of their enemies,
so you can suppress one enemy squard.
-> for ammo, you can shoot the futuristic Panzerfast 100!
You can have those Supermen really fast in game. Commandos, best British infantry unit is for 3CPs, but those guys only for one CP.
Sorry for my English. My English isn't best.
Thank you!
Ohh well, ur right about these trenches, i will delete them.
The "Totenkopf-Kampfgruppe" was thought to be callable
with 4 commando points. I just dont got the right image yet :)
I will upgrade it soon!
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some of the doctrine ideas look OP (oil production should be 3cp...) and the german dipl. Ing thing maybe encourages turtling way too much, i mean a bunker whose crew cant be killed by snipers, which has a mortar and an MG 42??? compine this with two pantherturrets and you have an unbeatable defense strongpoint. Also the Name "Hall of German Steel is ridiciolous. Germans back in those times didnt call their tanks "german Steel" they called it the "Panzerwaffe" or "panzerverbände". just because the STUG IV drivers keep shouting it doesnt mean the germans really did it. But enough of the patronizing criticism, overall i like your concept, especially the ACE-bonus veterancy
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Hm. I think this concept had some problematic points.
I just want to show by one example;
Your artillery doctrine:
You have the Brummbär, the sFh 18, the railwaygun Dora and the Thor Mortar... 4 Abilities with artillery; 4 times different units for the same action; battle over distance!
So tell me why i should call in Brummbär when sFh 18 can kill infantry by an greater distance? Why should i call in a Thor-Gerät when Brummbär is more mobile and sFh 18 more save ( fire from behinde the frontline! ). I cant see the sense behind this ???
And this problem u can find at some more points at the concept - different infantry units with the same function, Beutewaffen and german weapons, three ways of first-aid and so one! Dont think to big; think prapractically!
I think this is a nice concept but a concept which some critical points!
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well, the brummbär isnt a call in.
Its just a kind of update for it.
The sFH. is a long distance, art weapon.
the bummbär is a breaktrough weapon.
please explain the inf. problems :p
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I think this is the best, most worked-out and creative Ostheer suggestion that I've read so far. Nice job on the images.
;D
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- Scouts of the Easternfront 4-men.
Basic start inf. - very fast running and very fast capping.
But these guys are bad fighters and should be replaced by a
Landserzug (Thanks to Rommel for this awsome idea) as
fast as possible!
They are using the trusty K98.
- Landserzug
5 men squard. equipped with the K98.
hey can build uplight defensive structures, like sandbags. Also, they can
throw granades for some ammo.
- Spion (spy of the eastern front)
The Ostheers new answer to a one man show, they dont need another sniper,
they got a spy which is useable in many ways.
-> he can sabotage sector points very quikly with bombs
-> can camouflage, walks a bit slower than, but not as slow as the snipers do.
-> got mines.
-> can build up camouflaged monitoring points.
-> got the ability to throw anti building granades! -
mg-nests are no match than, you just gotta get behind it!
- Assault team
Basic 3-man anti tank unit. They are equipped with 1 powerfull Panzerschreck
and 2 G43. These guys are pritty hard to kill, even if they
are just 3 men.
-> can be upgraded with the ability to throw "Hohlladungen"
-> can be upgraded with 2 StG. 44, to get some anti inf. power.
- Warden of the Reich
Powerfull infantry unit with a 4-men squard.
They got 4 Mp40 already, to knock even the best russian infantry.
-> 2 man of them can be upgraded with the light mg 34
-> to get even more anti infantry power, you can add one flamethrower via upgrading.
-> to get light anti tank support, they can shoot a Pranzerfaust - but that costs ammo.
-> they can throw granade bundles for ammo!
- medication team/"first care" - team
A 3-men squard with 2 K98, the 3rd guy provids first care for your troops.
But you need to settle it down first, to heal nearby troops!
look out for these guys, they are usefull but easy to kill!
but remember, they can only heal!
restocking works without a "feldlazarett" (look at the upgrades)
only nearly the HQ!
Totenkopf-Kampfgruppe (5 men)
Call in soldiers with no any fear.
They got StG44 right at start,
later on you can upgrade them with 2 flamethrowers.
-> they can strike fear into the heards of their enemies,
so you can suppress one enemy squard.
-> for ammo, you can shoot the futuristic Panzerfast 100!
German Diplom Ingineur
Call in a well educated German Dipl. Ing.
This officer-like unit is bad armed, but it gives
you serveral new options, just like a british commander
gives your units leadership. He can climb in the Sd.Kfz 9's,
to gives you new building options.
Thats all your infantry; well?
So. My question or thoughts:
First u have the scouts. You wirte that they are just good for capping; nothing more...so why should i build them? Just because of capping? I think when i spend resources in training of an armed troop i dont want just such a unit for capping ( Kar98 just for the optic?? ). I will hold my resources and start with the Landsern because they can fight, cap and build basic fieldelements...so no need for "armed" cappers. That could also be done by a light vehicle!
The Landserzug is quiet okay because a Kar98 troop for long range combat.
the spy; dont love this unit because it is a freaky op unit. As soviet or allied i would get crazy when just one guy do the work of a lot of guys. He plants bombs, camouflages himself, builds a "camouflaged observerbuiling" ,plants mines against vehicles and get a special anit-building grenades...so in a short sentence: He can everything u want! Winning the game just by right using ONE unit...i dont like this ( also from historical view ;) ).
The assault team; here i dont realy sure what u want with this unit. Is this the main-antitank-infantry or just an other "stormtroop" with G43/StG 44. The Panzerschreck is pure cosmetics to justify this squad.
The Warden of the Reich; the next "allrounder-squad"!
They can slaughter infantry with MG 34 ( weapons like the WE Panzergrenadiere; or ;) ), they can fight down tanks with Panzerfaust and as special benefit when all this is not strong enough they can throw a "grenade bale" ( Geballte Ladung (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geballte_Ladung) ) which is effectiv against...well...against what? The historical "grenade bale" was used against fortifications and vehicles...and they were very effective.
The medication team/"first care" - team;
Why should i build armed medics when your HQ can heal nearby infantry AND/OR your SdKfz. 10 ( why the SdKfz. 10 oO - it wasnt a combat halftrack; its main-function was the troop support and gun-movment ), so i cant see a reason to build this unit ( just the Feldlazarett - a 4th way to heal infantry!? 4 ways for ONE faction.... )
The Totenkopf-Kampfgruppe. First...u mean the division Totenkopf or the "Einsatzgruppen of the SS-Totenkopf-units"? Both are completely different...
So. Their mission is to slaughter down enemies infantry...well...i think there was a troop with the same mission at your concept; perhaps the Warden of the Reich?
So MG34 can suppress and your Totenkopf-squad can suppress. Why should i call this unit when Warden of the Reich do the same job and had anti-tank abilities?
Hope u see why i have problems with your infantry.
I cant find specialized infantry or better "implacable"
infantry.
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AN idea:
I posted this in another thread but no one gave me any opinions on it.
Panzer II Ausf L "Luchs"
Light scouting tank built at panzerwarfare commando Would be fairly expensive (thinking maybe 45 fuel)
It would be a pretty fast tank, like one of the fastest tanks in the game. It would be armed with a better version of the Wehr Sdfkz 234's 20mm gun, which would be more effective aganist vehicles. (it could also have coax MG)It would have okay armor, maybe slightly worse then Stuart level, but it would have good skirmishing abilities. I cant really think of any upgrades, except maybe a flamm upgrade or longer barreled gun
other then that though i love the concept. I think the Elefant, however, should have so thick frontal armor that almost no cannons can kill it frontally i.e. only fireflies and is2 and su100 and heavy calibre guns can kill it frontally. if flanked, however, any gun could easily penetrate it. It would have HUGE front armor but eh side armor. and its gun would suck aganist infantry but be een better then a vet3 panthers gun vs tanks. Would have no MG at first and might breakdown, but once upgraedfrom fernaindand to Elefant it would break down less and have MG. (maybe 75 munis)
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the tanks are kinda weak, i mean, you start out with the Panzer III, Marder II, and then after some upgrades skip right to the heavy tanks. and if you have the tiger thing, you would end up supporting a heavy tank with what is essentially a light tank. The Panzer IV was a critical part of the Ostheer, and cutting it out is just ludicrous. you would do better to put the PKW III in with the Panzer Warfare building as an early light tank to counter the t70, rather than waiting to build a light tank in a late-game building. I dont know if i like the idea of replacing the Panthers with Tigers, granted the tigers are near-undefeatable in the right hands, but replacing my only (so far) heavy tank option with a slow, expensive unit of which i may only have 2, i dont like the odds of that, regardless of how powerfull they may be. of course, adding a medium tank like the PKW IV would even that out considerably, but still, it sounds like late game my tactics would have to slow down to allow for heavy Tigers.
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Thank you for all your replays Guys.
This will make my concept a lot better now. especially thanks to lord rommel.
Just enjoyed my holidays the last weeks, but now i gave my
concept another shot!
@ spartasman
another Panzer IV is not needed for the germans.
For the reason of originality. The Jagdpanzer IV is surely enough. Also, why do you tank about weak tanks?
If you mention the Tiger later on i mean.
-> the panzer III is pritty much the same as the Panzer IV, so that "guy" is Okay :)
@ Guynumber7
Thanks for the great idea.
Totally forgot about that Luchs.
Added :)
Thanks!
@ Lord Rommel,
Yea, I kinda see my infantry problems. For the reason
of playing to much PE i came up to these StG upgrades x)
I Fixxed a lot here, for example deleting those scouts and putting the Landerserzug into the HQ. Therefore a Kübelwagen was added into the infantry commando.
Also i made every inf. unit more "specific". No allrounders any more. Great Thanks to Lord Rommel.
The Spy is my only problem now.. I really need some creative suggestions here.. o.ô
Ready to get some critism :D
Venoxxis!
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Another problem with your concept may be the construction animations for the mortar bunker and pantherturm. These can be easily substituted with simpler things such as the Elephant or an ability to construct heavy defences such as AT emplacement (Pak40) or AA emplacements.
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Other mods have mortar bunker and panterturn.Animation already exist.
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right, these already exist and look very well :)
But thanks for thinking about that ;)
Also i think these structures bring a lot of originality in the game, its not just another 88 oder 17pdr!
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Omg man if they included the Karl it would be EPIC and the greatest thing ever, blowing the crap out of people with 600mm shells from a huge fortress is just epic win.
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Omg man if they included the Karl it would be EPIC and the greatest thing ever, blowing the crap out of people with 600mm shells from a huge fortress is just epic win.
yea your kinda right.
This is a epic looking vehicle which would bring a lot of feeling into the ostheer with its "propagada-war-gun".
Just take a look at this:
Men of War - Karl Thor (Mörser Karl Gerät 040), 600mm self-propelled siege howitzer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvV-mAxWptQ#normal)
something similiar like this would be really epic.
Its orignial, not for its sheer size. its original for being a "singulary-shooter" and a propaganda weapon of the eastern front.
Propaganda weapons bring the greatest feeling in a game like this.
Just take a look at the Tiger, the katyusha or the IS-2.
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I think the Karl Gerät is NO OPTION for CoH.
You have to consider that such a weapon is extreme
slow in movement and had an long "cooldown ( reload ).
It would be an easy target for enemy players:
after the first shoot the enemy would concentrate all his artillery weapons against this opject or he would try to start a breakthrough with some tanks. In both situations the Karl Gerät is absolute helpless because he can drive away. Until he would start to escape artillery or tanks would have destroyed such a weapon and then everyone would cry because of such an expensive, senseless weapon ;)
When u want to think about artillery or u want to implement heavy artillery weapons u wont need such a weapon like the Karl Gerät or the 80cm railway gun "Dora".
There are enough other weapons like 21cm or 24cm howitzers and mortars ;) They would be strong enough for CoH.
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you are totally right about what you said.
But im sure, there is a way to make it usefull and even more orignial,
just thinking about cloak abilities. Surely than, balance is another question, but everything is possible.
Also, this unit should surely be provided very well.
another thing:
I've got a question to the team,
is it possible to salvage enemy tanks?
This would bring a lot of origniality in the ostheer.
thinking about salvaged tanks with german skins o_ô
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I disagree.
1 - any artillery need protection and is vulnerable if is attacked by tanks or other artillery
2 - if this piece will have big health will make them hard to kill
3 - if this monster howitzer will not reveal his position in fog of war when shoot, will be almost impossible to be guessed his position
4 - this special howitzer have advantage of mobility(is low BUT can move);after shooting will move in other location until the gun is loaded and will shoot from there,and will repeat the operation
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Well...
your points are nearly right but we talk about the Karl Gerät ;) Its was a hugh, sensible artillery gun which need a lot of work and preparation to make his job.
CoH is a game, okay, but not a absolutely scifi game ;)
A gun like Karl would be found easy because maps had not so much positions and space for placing this gun.
Other point is when a gun like the Karl Gerät get too much health point this weapon will destroy any game balance.
Other problem of the Karl Gerät is that you can just use this weapon in a static game situation. When your frontline is in movement or isnt strong enough to stop any attack in front of your line the Karl Gerät will get hugh troubles and like i already had said when u lost this gun because of an enemies breakthrough u would cry ;)
When u need an artillery i think you will find nice pieces under the other german guns ;) Panzerartillerie auf Selbstfahrlafette ( Panzerartillery on self propelled guns ) like Hummel or howitzers with calibers like 21cm or 24cm like the 21-cm Mörser 18 would do the same job for a better price, better game balance or better mobility.
And my last point against the Karl Gerät:
The symbolic value. The Karl Gerät was a weapon of the eastern front but not for the hole! When u will ask a person who is interested in the 2ww about the Karl Gerät he will tell u that he know this weapon from the siege of Sewastapol...a famous battle but just one of thousand of battles of the eastern front ( and the siege of Sewastopol was one of the "ww1" battles ;) ).
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Probably, both of you are right in some ways.
Its a question of the point of view.
Also, i didnt want a big art. unit, i wanted a orgnial one.
Seeing this unit rolling over the battlefield would be for a lot of us just epic.
And yes, also for me that counts. This vehicle is just impressive, and with some great ideas surely a well including is possible.
Howitzer with big calibers are just other howitzers, but this vehicle, is really something else.
I need to say it again, its not about the caliber. its about the originality of this vehicle.
Every balance issues are fixable, the EF team showed that already..
But still no news about salvageable enemy tanks?
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in all honesty if we put the Seige howi in then people are gonna cry because you put that behemoth in but not the Maus, Ratte or Landkruzer, please don't I finally got through their thick heads that we ain't using them
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have a cry everyone. This is a fun and balanced game. you are not gonna see any of these 'super (stupid) weapons' such as railway guns, super heavy tanks or other ridiculous weapons like sound cannons or allied doomwheels. Weapons like these don't work. They did not work in the 'reel werld' it was conclusively proven and they would not work in this game. Ridiculous weapons wouldn't work and they would break the balance of the game. Even King Tigers which I really like only barely work in this game and you will not see anything bigger than this. what you should be commenting about are cool units that you want to see in the ostheer like stukas, ME262's, panzerwerfers or more tiger tanks. These weapons did work and can work in this game and are probably way cooler than any super weapon people keep cringing about. I'd personally like to see anyone who goes on about these stupid weapons to get a warning from the moderators, its over okay I'd like to see this retarded 'discussion' ended its pathetic. You ain't gonna see this crap in the game so wake up and get in line with reality.
Rant mode off.
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Brilliant, simply, BRILLIANT
Post Merge: March 10, 2010, 08:40:23 PM
However though, Germans didnt have officers like the Russian Commisar, the Germans relied more upon Sergeants, so instead of an Officer per each "Ace" squad it should be a sergeant.....just saying...
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the spy; dont love this unit because it is a freaky op unit. As soviet or allied i would get crazy when just one guy do the work of a lot of guys. He plants bombs, camouflages himself, builds a "camouflaged observerbuiling" ,plants mines against vehicles and get a special anit-building grenades...so in a short sentence: He can everything u want! Winning the game just by right using ONE unit...i dont like this ( also from historical view ;) ).
I started the spy topic so ill try to defend it.
Lord Rommel said: "He can everything u want!"
Sure, youre the Developer. But I never saw a spy carrying mines against vehicles and get a special anit-building grenades at the same time.:D Not even James Bond.
I wouldnt add a counter sniper ability as well.
The main problem with a spy is that he cannot fight. He cant call in arti, throw sticky bombs, use smoke and snipe! like sniper ace can. Also his HP is only 66% of a regular sniper.
As a doctrinal call-in he will be more expensive than 340MP (regural sniper).
PE has a non doctrinal vampire halftrack that produces goliats, divers supply, spots infantry on a minimap and nobody uses it.
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The Brummbar should be a call in unit and why is there no Stug III ???
Also i agree that having the ME 262's, Maus, Ratte and Monster just doesnt work they either werent used in large enough numbers, never used in battle or in the case of the Ratte and Monster never even left the design stage
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Thank you for your replays guys. Really helpfully. I will try to answer the questions
The Brummbar should be a call in unit and why is there no Stug III ???
The Brummbär brings a lot of originality to the Ostheer, thats the first reason.
You are probably thinking that a mass inf. killer shouldnt be buildable, but what about the US' croc than?
So a expensive brummbär is OK, this way it wouldnt be spamable neither.
Thinking about masses of these blowing away your buildings? think about brits cheap AVRE. just took three of them and drive in your enemys base with some ammo. 1 minute left and he is gone.
This way, i mean thinking about balance this tank is a good one.
The Stug III is simply to similiar to the Stug IV of the wehr.
These tanks are often prodoced, but they dont fit in CoH thinking about gameplay.
Historical they were usefull, but ingame you can defeat only early game tanks with it.
there is no usefull spot in the Ostheer to get it in.
But if you got a usefull spot for the ME just tell it me ;)
the spy; dont love this unit because it is a freaky op unit. As soviet or allied i would get crazy when just one guy do the work of a lot of guys. He plants bombs, camouflages himself, builds a "camouflaged observerbuiling" ,plants mines against vehicles and get a special anit-building grenades...so in a short sentence: He can everything u want! Winning the game just by right using ONE unit...i dont like this ( also from historical view ;) ).
I started the spy topic so ill try to defend it.
So wherefore should the spy than be usefull Paciat?
taking out his fighting abilities would make him kinda impotent.
Give me ya ideas and i will include them if they fit well ;)
Brilliant, simply, BRILLIANT
Post Merge: March 10, 2010, 08:40:23 PM
However though, Germans didnt have officers like the Russian Commisar, the Germans relied more upon Sergeants, so instead of an Officer per each "Ace" squad it should be a sergeant.....just saying...
First of all, thank you.
But i agree with you, speaking english the Sergeant should be the better use. but maybe we should ask Lord Rommel to be sure what fits best ;)
hopefully he will see that.
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So wherefore should the spy than be usefull Paciat?
taking out his fighting abilities would make him kinda impotent.
Give me ya ideas and i will include them if they fit well ;)
Booby traps, binoculars, camo and demolitions charges. If he grabs a shreck from the battlefield he can be dangerous but when called in he only has a luger (something like a captain in enemy territory).
Maybe he could also construct something like Radio Triangulation Detectors.
In other words a spy will spy.
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[...]
Brilliant, simply, BRILLIANT
Post Merge: March 10, 2010, 08:40:23 PM
However though, Germans didnt have officers like the Russian Commisar, the Germans relied more upon Sergeants, so instead of an Officer per each "Ace" squad it should be a sergeant.....just saying...
First of all, thank you.
But i agree with you, speaking english the Sergeant should be the better use. but maybe we should ask Lord Rommel to be sure what fits best ;)
hopefully he will see that.
Well, the commissar was a political officer. The Wehrmacht defend itself till the end against including such an officer at the Wehrmacht because one of the main ideas of the Wehrmacht was political neutrality and so such an officer hadnt fit in the Wehrmacht.
But what for a function u want to attach to an officer?
The Wehrmacht had the best sub officer corps ( Unteroffizierskorps ) of all armys. So when u search officers then i would search at this ranks ( Feldwebel, Leutnant, Hauptmann and so on ).
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@ Paciat;
Im ok with that "passiv" kind of spy u are suggesting, i will include the spy just like that.
It was ur idea.
@ LordRommel;
I was searching for a table of the wehrmacht, which showed wo controlled who and who was on top and so on.. but i didnt find it this time. I think it was somewhere at the us wiki.
But i think the Feldwebel fits pretty good in that role with his rank, doesnt he?
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Well. The Feldwebel commanded a "Zug" so a group of around 10-20 soldiers. In special situations company commanders ordered Feldwebeln to make counterattacks or recon missions and so on.
So the rank was relay flexible and german army had a high number of such sub officers.
The Feldwebel or other sub officers are the key for the german combat effective.
Good sub officers - good battle performance ( when u need a small equation ) ;)
Here is a small table for u: CLICK! (http://zeit1.uibk.ac.at/quellen/Dienstgrade.html)
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Now, since aot of this page has been about what should be included and what shouldn't, i will say this; even though seeing a Karl-Gerat would be awesome, it be be decimated after one shot. So, instead of that, how about this gun?
It is called the 15cm sFH 18, it was used by the Germans. While not as good as the Soviet 122mm A-19 guns (range 20km as oppose to 7 km), it had a bigger shell. So it could be built by the Pioneers of the Ostheer and then be moved by half track quickly so to avoid counter battery fire, or by foot for the instance you don't have a half-track.
Post Merge: March 11, 2010, 07:16:58 PM
ok, i am a dumbass. i forgot to re-look on your original concept Venoxxis so i put in a unit that was already in there. i deserve to fell like a dumbass.
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It is called the 15cm sFH 18, it was used by the Germans. While not as good as the Soviet 122mm A-19 guns (range 20km as oppose to 7 km), it had a bigger shell. So it could be built by the Pioneers of the Ostheer and then be moved by half track quickly so to avoid counter battery fire, or by foot for the instance you don't have a half-track.
Those guns were too big to move "quickly so to avoid counter battery fire". It probably took an hour set up this gun. If you want a mobile gun like a nebelwerfer than how about 7,5cm leIG18. It would be great in killing russian snipers and mortar teams. Accurate, low damage but short cooldown as well.
(http://www.1939.pl/uzbrojenie/niemieckie/artyleria/a_75mm_leIG18/a_75mm_03.jpg)
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The Brummbar should be a call in unit and why is there no Stug III ???
Also i agree that having the ME 262's, Maus, Ratte and Monster just doesnt work they either werent used in large enough numbers, never used in battle or in the case of the Ratte and Monster never even left the design stage
I disagree on Me262's. they were extremely effective and used in large(ish) numbers for German standards that late in the war although not enough to change the war.
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@Lord Rommel;
Thanks this is what i expected :)
Feldwebel added.
@Panzer4live;
The Karlgerät is surely the most extraordinary vehicle of my concept. some hate it, some love it. Just like the ISU maybe.
But something has be a bit crazy in the Ostheer last but not least, if you got me right.
The sFH 18 is included already right :)
also, it would be movearound able, it would be a firebase.
The Artillary Warefare Doctrine is focused on right that warefare with his art. truck. -> having a forward base with firebases to get solid art support.
@Paciat;
the leIG18 is in already as well :)
@Versed;
What do you disagree to?
the Me being used in the mod?
or that it was a fairly seldom used plane?
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no I really want ME262's in the mod, I am disagreeing and pointing out the poor points of raider217's statement on Me262's.
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[...]
Brilliant, simply, BRILLIANT
Post Merge: March 10, 2010, 08:40:23 PM
However though, Germans didnt have officers like the Russian Commisar, the Germans relied more upon Sergeants, so instead of an Officer per each "Ace" squad it should be a sergeant.....just saying...
First of all, thank you.
But i agree with you, speaking english the Sergeant should be the better use. but maybe we should ask Lord Rommel to be sure what fits best ;)
hopefully he will see that.
Well, the commissar was a political officer. The Wehrmacht defend itself till the end against including such an officer at the Wehrmacht because one of the main ideas of the Wehrmacht was political neutrality and so such an officer hadnt fit in the Wehrmacht.
But what for a function u want to attach to an officer?
The Wehrmacht had the best sub officer corps ( Unteroffizierskorps ) of all armys. So when u search officers then i would search at this ranks ( Feldwebel, Leutnant, Hauptmann and so on ).
I know that, but having officers leading JUST a fire team of 3-5 is silly, they lead squads (2 fire teams) or platoons (4 squads)(depending on the time of the war), so thats why I am trying to explain that having officers placed in single squads sounds kinda off. They had sergeants up to the rank of Hauptfeldwebel commanding fire teams of soldiers on the field. Im just saying, just dont make it officers, more like Seasoned Sergeants......
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Probably Elite, your right about what you are saying.
But having another single commander to give some sort of leadership to your troops is also kinda off as well. Thinking about copy past ideas of the british kind i mean.
The idea was to get something new, a new man in a squad
is a orignal one. Also i think that its from the historical view quite ok. Just as Rommel explained, they were leading a pretty smal squad. And now we shouldnt think about comparing real "Zugs" with the ones ingame, this would just be redicilous.
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Well, there can be:
A) One soldier in the squad changes his skin once....
B) Another soldier is added to the squad once.....
it reaches vet 3. It should be a helmeted soldier, with a different skin than the other guys in his fire team, then just simply call him a "Seasoned Sergeant", so that way you can have several "Seasoned Sergeants" on the field at once.
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Its time for another concept update:
first of all, i will add a new upgrade, getable in the "German Engineer Hall". The idea was brought by guynumber7. So the cedits go to his mindblowing idea.
New upgrade:
- Einstoßflammenwerfer 46
From now on, your Landerzug can use "Einstoßflammenwerfer"
to burn down enemy infantry.
Its a cheap upgrade, and is the new way to counter enemy granades!
Other Changes:
Tiger I Panzers of the "Steamroller Doctrine" wont replace the Panther anymore, since only 2 of them are buildable.
Also for the reason of having a cheaper anti tank weapon (Panther) and for the reason of having huge tank battles. these wont happen very often, but if you need a lot heavy tanks now, the Tiger wont kill this tactic any more. Remember i mean, there is soviet armour now on the allied side not only sherman crap.
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But the greatest update is about reward units today,
everyone of us wants some for the soviets and the Ostheer as well,
so lets have some!
(4) Reward units:
If some of you got some orignial ideas as well,
just post them. Im interested in "foreign" tanks as reward units.
- Raketen-Panzerbüchse 43 nicked "Püppchen (eng: Dolly)"
Replacing: leIG18
Unlike the leIG this weapon is just able to fight enemy tanks,
its something like a early game pak, more effective like the leIG
in tank hunting for sure. It shoots 88mm rockets (!) similar to panzerschrecks!
Its way more orignial than the pak36.
take a look at it:
(http://thumb1.visualizeus.com/thumbs/09/10/03/bazooka,p%C3%BCppchen,rocket,rocket,weapon,secret,weapon,ww,2,ww,ii,ww2,wwii-327c89b5f8f7cd86ca6bdabeab8ddfa7_m.jpg)
or here for a bigger image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Raketen-Panzerb%C3%BCchse_43_Normandy_P001135.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Raketen-Panzerb%C3%BCchse_43_Normandy_P001135.jpg)
- Panzer 35(t)
Replacing: Panzer II "Luchs"
Like the Panzer II, the czech tank is a light tank, which has less
anti Inf. power but more anti-tank power than the german tank.
In fact,You can use this one fighting early game tanks or armoured
cars with its 37mm KwK. To have some anti inf power as well,
the usefull czech tank got a MG as well.
Lets have a look at it:
(http://hosted.wargamer.com/Panzer/pz35t01.jpg)
- Sturer Emil
Replacing: Elefant (of the HQ)
This "Selbstfahrlafette" got the most powerfull anti tank gun of the whole war.
Only 2 where build, but they where the most successfull of their kind.
Long time ago, luz777 started a thread about this amazing unit,
and A LOT people liked it. I said once that it would be in my concept,
if i got one one day ;). and well, here i am.
With its modified 128mm Flak40, this tank will be the most powerfull tankhunter ingame, BUT - its armour is pretty weak. talking about armour, the Elefand is still much much better. So think about your choise.
(http://ww2armor.jexiste.fr/Files/Axis/Axis/1-Vehicles/Photos/Germany/4-TankDestroyers/SturerEmil/Photo-02.jpg)
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Pz 38 would be better. Chassis from Pz38 it's done in CoH(marder 3,hetzer ;)).
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so the Eintoss will be useable after a global upgrade for some fuel, and then individually used for ammo?
hmm, okay well i still think if the Pak 36 was in, it could have a Stielgranaten 41 abilty, for 40 ammo it shoots a very short range AT rocket that causes massive damage to enemy tanks, but requires the next tier building.
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I was also thinking about the Panzer 38(t), but
i didnt find a suitable spot for it. Because it would be too
weak to replace the panzer III, and too strong to replace the
Panzer II "Luchs". And there is no spot between these 2 tanks.
In general, the pz 38(t) is too strong for a early game tank
and to weak for a tank out of the heavy tank hall.
The only choise would be a doctrinal pz 38 (t) which would be
ready at the right time, but well, paks would hunt it down.
therefore, there is no usefull spot.
Right, the Einstoßflammenwerfer (means something like one time useable flamethrower)
will be avialable after an inexpensive upgrade.
Its pretty much compareable to PE's flame granade. Remember,
its cheap and also fast to get, since the "German Eng. Hall"
is cheap as well.
would love to add some more reward units, maybe 2 more would be great. so feel free to post your ideas ;)
Regards
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I've got another update for you, this time about the "propaganda" pictures of the doctrines ;)
take a look at the new ones facing the Soviet Docs ;)
To have some fun with, lets have a picture battle between the most similiar doctrines of both sides!
Soviets VS. Ostheer
Doctrine Showdown
We will start with the Propaganda doctrine and the Stronghold doctrine:
(http://www.easternfront.org/guide_images/tset_html_m5a90c453.png) VS. (http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/3996/newstrongholddoctrinedo.png)
Propaganda Stronghold
From the defensive doctrines, lets change to the heavy weapons, and urban warfare boys..
(http://www.easternfront.org/guide_images/tset_html_m37e57d1b.png) VS. (http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/7966/newartillarywarfaredoct.png)
Urban Combat Artillery Warfare
Last but not least, the battle of tanks, one hell of steel, this is what the "Easternfront needs more than everything else:
(http://www.easternfront.org/guide_images/tset_html_7df2cd2e.png) VS. (http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/7752/newsteanrollerdoctrine.png)
Breakthrough Steamroller
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nice Venoxxis... ;)
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Artillery warfare :D :o
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Thank you guys i really enjoyed making them :D
it was big fun ;)
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artillery doctine for an axis force doesn't seem right to me. The allies aways had more artillery than axis.
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yup agreed, I also find the Arty Doc a bit lame
mortar pits and counter arty and the crazy and sucky(!) karl.
Sounds like a Doc which is only used on Scheldt and Leningrad...
I use the Brit Arty Doc even in 1 vs 1s to have officer arty and mortar range. It works quite good
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Aw... man...
You really make me jealous cause I am yet able to do that :'(
I wish I can make such thing soon...
Thanks for inspiration and...
GOOD JOB! ;D :o
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the doctrine fight lineup would be awesome to see in a video. I personally would think that that the Ostheer wins in the tank fight, loses in the artillery fight, and wins in the defense battle. But the soviets can mass over 100 NKVD conscripts on certain maps (like Lyon 1V1). Has anyone seen what that is like, and if you have a photo, take a pic so everyone can see the true horror of NKVD conscripts. But what could be used to kill all of them?
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the doctrine fight lineup would be awesome to see in a video. I personally would think that that the Ostheer wins in the tank fight, loses in the artillery fight, and wins in the defense battle.
Really that would be a nice idea ;) doing a clip like that is a nice idea for the final docs of the EF-team.
But atm i would create another doctrine instead of the artillary warfare badboy, it would be some sort of a mobile warfare doctrine.
maybe the image is cool, but the abilities are really extreme so i would totally overwork them.