Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Other discussions (Read-Only) => Eastern Front => Topic started by: vengefulnoob on September 07, 2008, 11:32:41 PM

Title: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: vengefulnoob on September 07, 2008, 11:32:41 PM
IMO, noone won: each country lost so much of its resources and manpower that it took years to build up again: Even America was not ready for another major conflict until 1950, and though there was an economic boom during the war, after the war the economic advantage gained by having a mass of cheaper labour was lost as the soldiers came home to replace those jobs. The soviet union didnt win either: 90% of all russian men born form 1921 to 23 were killed and the major grain supply of ukraine had been plundered by the germans, leaving the country in famine; nor did the UK: it lost its major asset- the empire fell under nationaist movements in india etc. I wont even bother with the axis countries...

what do you think? did anyone win world war 2?
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Dominic 'Dragon' Cassidy on September 07, 2008, 11:52:38 PM
You already answered the question yourself.
Key word in the title "World War", no one ever "wins" a world war.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: vengefulnoob on September 08, 2008, 01:04:25 AM
nvm
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: William on September 08, 2008, 03:09:01 AM
well if you think about it, we defeated Hitler's forces, there was a winner and a loser. Same with the Japanese, it just came at an extremely great cost.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: TheAllMihtyOne on September 08, 2008, 02:57:37 PM
well you can see it different ways i'd say the allies won and the axis lost or only that the axis lost if we dont want a winner. but if we se it like tasks: the germans faild their task to rule the world and kill all jews and the allais sucsesed in their task to stop hitler from doing his task. but as said no country won but there will allways be loosers
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: BurroDiablo on September 19, 2008, 11:11:29 AM
The Allies definitely won, but because there was no defined Country1 Vs Country2 conflict, no one country could be named the sole victor of the War... same applied to World War 1 too. To have a sole victor of a World War would mean all other combatants we're mercilessly crushed by a superior force... which could have happened in WW2 if the Ruskies decided that Berlin wasn't good enough for them (if it wasn't for the advent of Nuclear Weapons).
Its kinda like football; no sole person wins a game, the Team does... but the best player usually gets Man of the Match... Man of the Match for WW2 was definitely Russia. :P
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: matrin on October 24, 2008, 12:26:09 AM
switzerland won world war 2 with all the nazi gold it got
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Lone Commissar on November 11, 2008, 08:31:52 AM
Well, the world power balance changed, the empries of Britian and France played second fiddle to the USA and USSR. So you could say they won in that respect. The US also went on to profit from the debt that Britian and other Allies accumulated. I would say that for the US and USSR the Second World War was a victory, even if it was a slightly phyricc one.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: suederat on December 10, 2008, 03:27:37 AM
The Russians bled for the victory and nearly lost in the process, circa 20 million dead is unimaginable as a number of casualties, now consider it was the level that 'one' country suffered. It is mind boggling that it was the approximate death toll on the Russian population. The British and French lost more military in ww1 than in ww2. The Americans were the real winners, because they bankrolled the rest of the winners who are still paying it off. The British and Russians may not have survived without this form of support, so I am certain it was incredibly welcome and a prayer answered. So, the Russians fa

Consider this, the marshall plan was great in concept, I heard it said that USA bank-rolled the French to almost the same amount the French spent on losing the war in indo-china - convenient eh! Of course, this was a great lesson to the Americans, right? wrong!
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Halftrack on December 15, 2008, 11:18:41 AM
There are definetively some winners in World War II..

The USA and the Soviet Union both "won" something, they expanded their territory and influence
and became Superpowers. Looking at the price they had to pay, the US with some 600.000 casualties
and the Soviets with 20 Millions dead and their homeland tortured. So the USA is our clear winner.

Next to the "loosers" like Germany,Japan, Hungary and Italia there were
two others, who thought who won it: Great Britain and France. Both lost much of their influence,
a few years later they lost their oversea colonies, and they shrunk from global player to "some
european country"
 
Looking at the question who lost the war, you should say Germany and japan. But did they ?
10 years later both ( at least western germany ) were becoming important economies.

The real loosers of the war were the eastern european countries... first overrun or opressed
by germany, then annexed or made puppets of the Soviet union. They were occuoied for about 40 years
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Brewsky on February 02, 2009, 03:18:45 PM
Losing life period is not victory... It is sad that anybody had to die over a war that should of never happened... It just is more showing of the fact that humans are animals.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: TheAllMihtyOne on February 02, 2009, 04:46:37 PM
esactly how do you mean? i'm pretty good at history and i'm very sure that there have been no animal wars, the ellefants didnt start killing all girrafs and then came the ferrets trying to take whole central europe. the only war act u can blame in animals was when the rats spread the plauge.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Brewsky on February 02, 2009, 07:08:02 PM
Ugh. You know what I mean. What I'm trying to get at is that we shouldn't HAVE to settle differences by killing each other.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: TheAllMihtyOne on February 02, 2009, 08:15:26 PM
well if there never was a ww2 then non of the awsome computer games would have existed!
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Brewsky on February 02, 2009, 09:09:55 PM
Yeah... I guess you do have a point... Everything does happen for one reason or another :/
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: vengefulnoob on February 03, 2009, 12:16:26 AM
Like world war 2 in the red alert series?

Damn that's a good plotline....
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Brewsky on February 03, 2009, 12:34:43 AM
Red Alert had WWII in it? Never knew that...
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: vengefulnoob on February 03, 2009, 12:49:03 AM
Since it's world war 3 but ww2 never happenned in that universe, it's ww2
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Brewsky on February 03, 2009, 12:49:46 AM
Would Red Alert be a good game to look in to?
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: vengefulnoob on February 03, 2009, 12:57:35 AM
Ra3 is awsum

Buy it buy it buy it buy it buy it

Coop multiplayer rts......
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Brewsky on February 03, 2009, 12:59:25 AM
I'll just get it off of Torrentz :P It's free and all.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: WartyX on February 19, 2009, 12:48:38 AM
The Allies won the war. We achieved our war objectives (removing the threat of Nazi Germany). I could talk consequences all day and probably even find a reason to why Germany won the war if I wanted to, but the facts are plain and simple.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Lukin on May 25, 2009, 01:11:48 PM
USSR and Germany are both lost! Of course we finished our way in berlin, but we planned since 1924 to capture a whole World! Hitler just scared about it and strikes in 1941....... We were prepared to advance at the Europe and nobody knows that Hitler was so stupid to strike by his unnumbered forces! But he did.... He lost war at 1941, as we do! WW2 is a Stalins project, to capture a whole Europe! At his design the WW3 must be started to Capture USA and rest of free world.That's why i think that USSR lost WW2.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Zerstörer on May 25, 2009, 07:28:38 PM
There were only two 'true winners' in WW2 and that was the US...(and the chineese). They managed to surpass(in most ways) and grab hold of Europe without having suffered any domestic disasters(no bombings on infa structure). Weapons trade boomed  to unimaginable levels boasting the economy to unbelievable levels. They 'got' most of the world's leading scientiststo work for them. World wide influence with the most powerful nations at the time grew to an unbelievable level.

USSR was always trailing behind overstretching...allying with what can be considered the weakest of WW2 survivors technologically and financially.A loosing race...

Middle east became the next battlefield which clearly showed that US backed up 'states' would always win...

Chineese on the other hand have only ever increased their power since WW2 and being more 'adaptable' than the USSR have mostly replaced them as a counter balance to the US

To be fair if Hitler wasn't(thank fook) stupid enough to finish the war in Africa before assaulting the USSR...we'd have all been speaking german now
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: luz777 on May 25, 2009, 07:32:04 PM
I suppose "winning" is a bit of a vague term.
In military terms the allies won, as they defeated the German Army and captured or killed most of the leaders of the Nazi regime.
The cost of winning is something different though, and in that case the USSR was the one who really "lost".
24 million people really is a mind boggling number of casualties  :(
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: WartyX on May 25, 2009, 07:42:38 PM
Aye, thats like half the United Kingdom perishing over 5 years.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: UeArtemis on May 25, 2009, 08:09:43 PM
The USSR didn't lose. This war was hardening of steel. Before the Second World War, the Soviet Union lost wars, for example, against Poland, even the Winter War wasn't a full victory. After the Second World the USSR was respected. What does not kill us, makes us stronger.
Stalin never wanted to rule the world. He got a large country with big and numerous internal problems. Only Lenin believed in the World Revolution. The Stalin's thesis was: you can build communism in one country.
And the USSR was smaller than Russian Empire. So all Soviet expansions can be seen as an restoration of territory.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: WartyX on May 25, 2009, 09:02:09 PM
Quote
This war was hardening of steel. Before the Second World War, the Soviet Union lost wars, for example, against Poland, even the Winter War wasn't a full victory. After the Second World the USSR was respected. What does not kill us, makes us stronger.

The only real damage caused by the Soviets since WW2 was the way they ripped apart Afghanistan, before spitting it back out and retreating. Repecussions are still felt not only by the Allied soldiers currently stationed there, but the innocent children who become maimed while playing football because they trod on a mine.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: UeArtemis on May 25, 2009, 09:12:30 PM
If the enemy put the mines - is war lost? Or are you pacifist?
Mines was used by all.
Afghanistan... USA has such war too... Vietnam. And so? Several decades after the war - it is long time. After Khrushchev the USSR isn't so might (I think so). I love times of Khrushchev and Stalin. It is interesting time in history.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: WartyX on May 25, 2009, 09:21:30 PM
I am not a pacifist. The USSR-Afghan war was lost for other reasons. My point is, if WW2 was a 'hardening of steel' and before then, 'the Soviet Union lost wars', you are implying that the USSR had become some amazing battle machine which won war after war after war. Please enlighten me of any major conflict the Soviets actually won following the Second World War.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: UeArtemis on May 25, 2009, 09:35:51 PM
Oh, do you really think that the "war machine" can work forever? WW2 was time of reborn of the Red/Soviet Army. The war itself configure this machine of war. Practice is the best way to become better. In this war there was no chance to surrender without a capitulation. Everything was at stake. But time changes everything, destroys everything. Destruction of Soviet power was slowly.
Reasons of losing in Afghanistan and Vietnam are same. Wars were against guerrillas, not regular armies, on foreign territories, not supported by own people, enemies were receiving help from powerful allies, etc.

The Soviet army is not an American imperialistic army :) the USSR was a peaceful country before Afghanistan and didn't wage wars :) But the Caribbean Crisis was won by the USSR (   
Missiles in Turkey disappeared ;) ), Russian aircraft with Russian pilots fought against Americans in the skies of many wars, for example, in Korea.

My point of view: the USSR didn't lose the war, but the United States received the greatest benefit from this war.
Do you ask who win? the USA.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Zerstörer on May 26, 2009, 10:37:16 PM
'The Soviet army is not an American imperialistic army :) the USSR was a peaceful country before Afghanistan and didn't wage wars :)'

Cough cough!!!
Remind me again who invaded Finland pre WW2 and won just about enough ground to bury their dead?
Remind me again the Russian-Japanese conflict before and after WW2?
The Crimean war?
No...there is no such thing as 'peaceful country'. War is the continuation of state policy..by other means. It was just that by the end of WW2 soviet unit had created a military might it didn't have before and hence had the ability to increase it's influence via military might...same as the US. US were just clever enough to pose as the 'defenders of the 'free' world' while the soviets claimed to be the protectors of the 'weak'

As for Afganistan...the US/British trained them...financed them and used them to damage the Soviet union. It was in a big mess before the soviets invaded.
US/Britain are now paying the price for arrogantly thinking they could succeed where the soviets failed.The role/life of the Mujahedeen never changed...only their opponents nationality changed.

Back to the original question, it's all about gain vs cost to see who won...
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: UeArtemis on May 26, 2009, 10:49:25 PM
the USSR was a peaceful country before Afghanistan, but after the WW2. I think it is clear from context.
And Finland WAS a part of Russian Empire.
Quote
So all Soviet expansions can be seen as an restoration of territory.
the Russian-Japanese conflicts was a part of the WW2. And Japan was an aggressor, as you remember.
The Crimean war was on teritory of Russian Empire but we fought against Brits... so who is an aggressor here? And it wasn't the USSR.
and etc.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: HostileAmerican on May 27, 2009, 03:10:40 PM
ok im not sure how to get you all to understand this question but in 007 golden eye i remember James Bonds partner (from the beginning) saying something about how England betrayed (or something) others during the U.K vs Russia thing,

Now i know this was a movie and one that i don't have or else i would bee looking it up my self but can anyone fill me in to what they where talking about and weather it was true.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: WelshManDan on May 27, 2009, 04:20:07 PM
1 word, youtube
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: siegfried on June 29, 2009, 02:00:05 AM
of course the allies won. its all about completing your mission. Japan surrendered so of course they lost

and hitler killed himself because defeat was imminent.


doesn't matter what happened after the was over, allies won.

vengeful,what you say in your first post is like two teams at a football match, someone won, but when the winning team got back to their district they found their money had all been spent on buying more equipment for the team. doesn't mean they lost. they won.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: kitekatus on August 20, 2009, 12:08:48 PM
the USSR was a peaceful country before Afghanistan, but after the WW2. I think it is clear from context.
And Finland WAS a part of Russian Empire.
Quote
So all Soviet expansions can be seen as an restoration of territory.
the Russian-Japanese conflicts was a part of the WW2. And Japan was an aggressor, as you remember.
The Crimean war was on teritory of Russian Empire but we fought against Brits... so who is an aggressor here? And it wasn't the USSR.
and etc.
well i think when large nations are fighting each other both of them are agressors, aggressors against their own people no matter they are USSR,germany,brits or americans.talking about WW2 no doubt the allies won ,but they especialy USSR payed ultimate price for it- more than 20 milions dead ,advanced western part of USSR destroyed....and bout finns and other small nations who are bordering them.i cant understand what do russians need from them, and long time before the russian empire, there was living finnish tribes and thats why i think russians or other large nations have no rights to finnish, baltic and other small nation lands.what i want to say is that every nation should live where they are living for thousands of years free and independent. ;)
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: vengefulnoob on August 21, 2009, 08:36:28 PM
Now here's a question: why did tge Germans invade Norway? It had little in the way of resources and had a small population spread out over a huge area, thus easily allowing resistance and infiltration. Where is the motive?
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: luz777 on August 22, 2009, 01:18:12 AM
Im no expert but I'd imagine a main reason would be the coastline and naval bases. Used to launch u-boats into the north atlantic and whatnot.

Anyone else?

Cheers
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: NuclearTerrorist on August 30, 2009, 09:31:30 AM
The real winners were all the countries that did not fight in world war two because they didn't lose any lives, or temporarily wreck their economy. If you look at it from that point of course.

In my opinion the country that made the allies win was My Motherland The CCCP (AKA USSR).

Think about it.

You are in an automatch 2v2. and have an ally named USA playing as the USA. The mod already came out, and you are the Soviets. USA kinda fought the enemy "Japan". but was afk for half the time. You on the other hand kept battling the level 20 (Germany) and kept losing ground lots, of manpower, and lives. Your ally who's airbourne by the way drops in some paratroopers to help you, and sends a sherman or two. After many, many battles you manage to raise the satchel charge (the flag) over the enemy HQ. Your ally finally wakes up and uses his 500 accumulated ammo to bombing run "Japan's" HQ after which action "Japan" Drops.

So there you go. that's from CoH's perspective.

-Nuke 8)
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Cartoon Boy on February 03, 2010, 12:42:45 PM
Now here's a question: why did tge Germans invade Norway? It had little in the way of resources and had a small population spread out over a huge area, thus easily allowing resistance and infiltration. Where is the motive?

Germans invaded normay because they had airbases and naval bases that could be used againest Britain. Norway was the Northern half of a Giant pincer movement. The drive through France have him the southern half. Once both had fallen, the RAF would be destroyed and Mainland UK would be cut off from vital conveys from all across the world by Submarines.

On who won world war 2? Hmmmm lets see here, Germany didn't won because they lost. USSR didn't win because they're Communists. Japan didn't win they got a nuke dropped on them. China didn't win they had a civil war. US didn't win they got Nixon and Bob Dylan. UK didn't win they came a close second. The French didn't win... well that one is pretty . Finland didn't win. Italy and Romania changed sides so they got a half a point. So who is left? Australia that's who! We won the war damnit.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: gustavowizard on February 09, 2010, 02:17:28 PM
Of the Major Powers that fought only USA and RUSSIA got off better than on begin; after the WW2 they emerged as the 2 World Dominant Super Powers, then started the Cold War and Nuclear Run...

PS - That is a cold analisis, YES i do care the people that died, but humans born again quicklly, to rebuild a hole country infrastructure; England, France, Japan and Germany was tottally devasteded, all major cities destroyed; that didnt happened to US and not with all Russia.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Paciat on February 09, 2010, 02:56:37 PM
USA won.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: gustavowizard on February 09, 2010, 05:54:47 PM
USA won.

yeah lol correct, and after what i said USA won, and without shoot 1 bullet :), but make no mistake, the Opus Dei also helped to bring down the Soviet Union  :o (Paranoic face)
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: thebomb on February 09, 2010, 05:57:31 PM
Yeah the USA came out on top at the end of WWII. With its major imperialist competitor, Great Britain, lying in ruins and largely in debt they were free to do whatever they wanted for the next 50 years.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: spanishfly on February 10, 2010, 12:23:35 AM
Quote
The Soviet army is not an American imperialistic army :) the USSR was a peaceful country before Afghanistan and didn't wage wars

Czechoslovakia 1967 ;)
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: thebomb on February 10, 2010, 01:56:53 AM
The Soviet army is not an American imperialistic army :) the USSR was a peaceful country before Afghanistan and didn't wage wars

Czechoslovakia 1967 ;)

Uh, I assume you're responding to my post? I don't understand what you're getting at.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: GamblerSK on February 10, 2010, 02:45:13 AM
He means this... ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia)


and here are fotos and original radio communication when they attack from 3:23 you can hear gun shots and around 4:00 to
Occupation of Czechoslovakia 1968 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUaMkQAYQNw#normal)
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: thebomb on February 10, 2010, 02:50:23 AM
He means this... ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czechoslovakia)

Yeah.. I know what happened in '67..I just don't see how it is relevant to what I posted.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: spanishfly on February 10, 2010, 09:43:57 AM
It was to UeArthemis ;p
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: UeArtemis on February 10, 2010, 12:58:16 PM
What?
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Ost_Front_Soldat on March 12, 2010, 11:46:10 AM
Well it ended the whole era of "world powers" which were similiarly capable nations or empires that could, by virtue of alliances, keep each other in check, and brought in the superpower era. The Americans longed seeked something that would boom their economy, and it did, so much so that we see it een today. Looking at Japan and Germany today, its hard to tell they had lost the most crushing defeats in human history, only 65 years ago.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Shadowmetroid on March 12, 2010, 06:39:10 PM
The "winners" are those who lost the least. Russia lost the most, but history views them among the victors.

In war, there is no victor.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Oberst Faust on March 14, 2010, 11:56:57 PM
No body really won, but some came out on top of others, truly in War, there really is no victors, as Shadow said.

The United States, France, Britain and the rest of the "allied" countries kinda lost in my eyes because they created another war right after wards. (Cold War)
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Shadowmetroid on March 15, 2010, 06:08:00 AM
War is a never ending cycle of loses.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Akalonor on May 21, 2010, 07:59:48 AM
Yet all we can do is stand by and let the nature of the world run its course, The world is always fighting...your lungs fight for air, a wolf fights for survival, even the very essence of nature fights against time.....all we can do is accept the fact that fighting is natural.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Sovereign on May 24, 2010, 07:47:53 AM
War is a never ending cycle of loses.
Wrong in all wars fought, all of them have come to an end in one form or another.
The "winners" are those who lost the least. Russia lost the most, but history views them among the victors.

In war, there is no victor.
Yet another fallacy of yours,

In the words of Clausewitz ""War is not merely a political act, but also a political instrument, a continuation of political relations, a carrying out of the same by other means," He sees war as a social act and as an extension of policy.

If what you say were in fact true then do you really think that the process would continue? When you actually go down the line and study all aspects of all past conflicts you can clearly see that in each and every one there is in fact a beneficiary every single time. Doesn't matter if its just one group or more.

Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: vietlord on June 27, 2010, 11:07:00 PM
UK lost it's main influence and france too ... they lost their colonial power so nearly after
US and russia had the power (the suez affair prooved it) but the burdain of being number one, including worldwide military control, exausted them (poisonned apple)
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Akalonor on June 28, 2010, 02:39:05 AM
The Losers :
Germany
Russia
UK
France
The Winers:
Italy (they got independence and a government)
USA (they got loads of $$ and became a Superpower )
those were the main ones atleast
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Tico_1990 on June 28, 2010, 02:09:43 PM
The Losers :
Germany
Russia
UK
France
The Winers:
Italy (they got independence and a government)
USA (they got loads of $$ and became a Superpower )
those were the main ones atleast

Italy had a government and was independent before WW2 (since 18something if memory serves me right).
I'd say that WW2 itself did not have any winners. The rebuilding efforts afterwards is what somehow created winners though and even then, both sides lost to some extend.

Cheers
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Walentin 'Walki' L. on June 28, 2010, 04:11:29 PM
The winners:
-Germany
-Russia

both countries lost their dictators and are now democratically.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Tico_1990 on June 28, 2010, 07:29:20 PM
Walki, Russia didn't become democratic at the end of WW2 but rather at the end of the Cold War, so your conclusion isn't completely valid I think.

Cheers
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: TacticalNuke on June 28, 2010, 07:50:42 PM
I'm under the belief, that in a way, everybody won. Hopefully the world now realizes that human technology has become too destructive to risk another free-for-all. Losing entire generations of our people is now the least of our worries. Just food for thought...
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Akalonor on June 28, 2010, 09:54:43 PM
you now.... reading TN 's post reminded me of his avatar .....and world affairs......and everyones Nuclear warhead storage......and how N.K. is getting pushed by the US ........ now I remember that WWI was only 20 years before WWII..... hmmm did we learn anything??
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Seeme on June 29, 2010, 02:03:17 AM
I predict that ww3 will be in 2030 or 40
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Akalonor on June 29, 2010, 03:35:51 AM
And I predict we all die from Nukes , than the world turns into the Fallout games .
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: TacticalNuke on June 29, 2010, 04:01:10 AM
Nukes? nah. By then we will have come up with an even more creative and powerful weapon to kill ourselves with. And so goes the arms race.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Seeme on June 29, 2010, 04:41:49 AM
Russia gunna do some stuiped and blow of its nukes, or some other terrorist country. I cant see america doing it.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: TacticalNuke on June 29, 2010, 04:24:57 PM
Then you're terrible misinformed. Guess who came up with the M.A.D. policy? Lol
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Paciat on June 29, 2010, 05:13:51 PM
Russia gunna do some stuiped and blow of its nukes, or some other terrorist country. I cant see america doing it.
Any country that has people smart enough to build a nuke is smart enough to not use it.
...
Conventional death to all religious fanatics.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Seeme on June 29, 2010, 05:34:16 PM
I didnt tyry to offend anyone.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Paciat on June 29, 2010, 05:57:53 PM
I didnt tyry to offend anyone.
Didnt think that you tried.
But I understand youre thinking.

Russian army training is much more brutal than in any western country.
Spetsnaz dosnt care about civilians as much as lets say UKs SAS.
Russian cheap AK-47 isnt build to be accurate at long distances like M-16 or FN FAL is but its more realieble instead.
Russian tanks are quite cheap and most unconfortable of them all.

Russians seem to be the barbarian hordes of 21st century. 21st century becouse theyre high tech. "Terrorist countries" are 19th century barbarian hordes.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Akalonor on June 29, 2010, 06:00:43 PM
I don't see Russia going on any raids though , so they are the berserkers of the 21st century not the barbarians .
I wonder what the MWD is going to be in 2040 , maybe a superlaser .....
imagine what the rifles will be , the US and other countries (I think Germany is one) are working on a 20mm rifle nowadays ,so that sets a high bar.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Red_Stinger on June 29, 2010, 10:56:49 PM
I hope Russia will now focus on more constructive work now, and will develop good relationship with others slavic people (polish and ukrainians), since the cold war is end.It would be normal. But some countrys/people still think that cold war isnt finished yet !  ::)
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: TacticalNuke on June 30, 2010, 12:24:10 AM
Now thats the truth
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Akalonor on June 30, 2010, 05:20:30 PM
I hope that the people here in the US will suck it up and stop whining about everything President Obama does.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: UeArtemis on June 30, 2010, 08:15:52 PM
AK-47
Russians use AK-74 ;) It isn't Africa. ;D
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Seeme on June 30, 2010, 11:07:18 PM
I hope that the people here in the US will suck it up and stop whining about everything President Obama does.

Dont know what that had to do with anything, but I agree.

I voted for him ;D
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: TacticalNuke on July 01, 2010, 12:10:51 AM
You? Vote? Now theres a scary thought...  :o
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: GodlikeDennis on July 01, 2010, 05:58:59 PM
Russia gunna do some stuiped and blow of its nukes, or some other terrorist country. I cant see america doing it.
Any country that has people smart enough to build a nuke is smart enough to not use it.
...
Conventional death to all religious fanatics.

This is so terribly wrong. Countries build nukes as a deterrent to other countries with nukes because they WILL use them if they are attacked first. All it takes is one nuclear detonation anywhere within a country with nukes and warheads start flying all over the world. Scary to think about it. Other countries, such as North Korea, feel like it demonstrates the power of the nation to build and use a nuke. If the potential gains for the war are greater than the international backlash then they'll probably use it.

On a hypothetical note, if war were to break out between the US and Russia for example, I don't think nukes will be used immediately but as the situation grows more desperate on one side they may use a tactical weapon as a last resort and open the floodgates for strategic weapon use.

Hopefully war between developed countries is a thing of the past. Countries are less nationalistic than they were in other times and wars are not socially acceptable. The advanced media these days lets us see the reality of war which never occurred before. The world is controlled by corporations and businesses now, rather than dictators, and war is bad for the global economy.

PS. The first part of my post was responding to paciat but I just reread Seeme's post and it is so unbelievably stereotypical of an American. Russia is implied as being a "terrorist country" and he says America would never use a nuke. Because the only country to ever use a nuke in warfare wasn't the US... ::)
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: UeArtemis on July 01, 2010, 06:16:17 PM
As far as I know, the USSR always prepared to counter-attack, but the U.S. was preparing for a preventive attack. Decide who is more aggressive, who wanted a nuclear war.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Red_Stinger on July 01, 2010, 07:38:03 PM
GodlikeDennis is right, war is bad for economy. Then, capitalism is good for our life!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Tico_1990 on July 02, 2010, 01:52:06 AM
Actually, war isn't always bad for the economy, it depends on where the war is fought, and your position (aggressor, defender, or neutral).
Cheer
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Seeme on July 02, 2010, 03:23:31 AM
Russia gunna do some stuiped and blow of its nukes, or some other terrorist country. I cant see america doing it.
Any country that has people smart enough to build a nuke is smart enough to not use it.
...
Conventional death to all religious fanatics.

This is so terribly wrong. Countries build nukes as a deterrent to other countries with nukes because they WILL use them if they are attacked first. All it takes is one nuclear detonation anywhere within a country with nukes and warheads start flying all over the world. Scary to think about it. Other countries, such as North Korea, feel like it demonstrates the power of the nation to build and use a nuke. If the potential gains for the war are greater than the international backlash then they'll probably use it.

On a hypothetical note, if war were to break out between the US and Russia for example, I don't think nukes will be used immediately but as the situation grows more desperate on one side they may use a tactical weapon as a last resort and open the floodgates for strategic weapon use.

Hopefully war between developed countries is a thing of the past. Countries are less nationalistic than they were in other times and wars are not socially acceptable. The advanced media these days lets us see the reality of war which never occurred before. The world is controlled by corporations and businesses now, rather than dictators, and war is bad for the global economy.

PS. The first part of my post was responding to paciat but I just reread Seeme's post and it is so unbelievably stereotypical of an American. Russia is implied as being a "terrorist country" and he says America would never use a nuke. Because the only country to ever use a nuke in warfare wasn't the US... ::)


Aghhhh

The USSR is the one who started the cold war, by not moveing out of the places it took during ww2.
But America I guess over reacted, but still.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: GodlikeDennis on July 02, 2010, 07:10:43 AM
Actually, war isn't always bad for the economy, it depends on where the war is fought, and your position (aggressor, defender, or neutral).
Cheer

This is also correct, the American economy is fueled by war and has been for the last 100 years. I actually stated it is bad for the global economy and trading.

Seeme, from the Soviet point of view the Americans started the cold war by taking half of Berlin even though the Soviets got there first. The British also started it from their PoV because Churchill was terrified of the USSR. Your view is not the only one.

America is one of the most antagonistic nations in the world because they like to stick their noses in everything and throw around their weight. They just like to retain their peace loving facade to appeal to the voters (because of the social stigma of war these days) but their economy still runs on it.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: TacticalNuke on July 02, 2010, 09:24:45 AM
Remember... in America war is more important than schools. Good for the economy? It Is our economy.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: GodlikeDennis on July 02, 2010, 11:18:31 AM
Reminds me of rise of nations where the Americans get resource income from their troops.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Seeme on July 02, 2010, 02:04:19 PM
I am an American and I didnt know this. Wow.

What dose antagonistic mean?
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: TacticalNuke on July 02, 2010, 09:57:17 PM
What you don't know would fill several libraries. 

Antagonistic- in a nut shell, starting fights
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Seeme on July 02, 2010, 10:08:02 PM
That was mean :(
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: TacticalNuke on July 02, 2010, 10:14:53 PM
Ask a stupid question...
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Sovereign on July 03, 2010, 02:57:27 AM
I'll bite, Why exactly are we no longer talking about the actual subject matter of the topic and instead veering off to one irrelevant thing after another?

Last I saw it said "Did anyone actually win world war 2?" and not pie in the sky notions of WW3 and or other such irrelevant things?

In short: from an analytic point of view, the winners were the ones who flourished and endured after the war.

Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: GodlikeDennis on July 03, 2010, 06:45:45 AM
I guess it turned out to be a conversation on whether we learned anything from WW2. So then came the prediction of WW3 and now I guess we're talking about the social context of war in a modern society. I think the US won WW2, as did Germany because they got rid of Hitler, even if the price was monolithic.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Akalonor on July 08, 2010, 03:09:07 AM
thats the question , did we really learn anything , yes , we learned many things , like how to destroy an entire city in one strike , on how to eliminate thousands and call it rightous, we learned a lot of things , but not our lesson :\
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Seeme on July 08, 2010, 03:18:02 AM
We also learned the Nazis are bad.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Akalonor on July 08, 2010, 04:37:06 AM
not true , the Nazi party was actually the German Workers party which equaled good until hitler came , now Nazi means something entirely different nowadays , but it is still popular even in the US.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Sovereign on July 08, 2010, 04:56:04 AM
thats the question , did we really learn anything , yes , we learned many things , like how to destroy an entire city in one strike , on how to eliminate thousands and call it rightous, we learned a lot of things , but not our lesson :\
And I'm presuming this proposed "lesson" that I keep hearing is the supposed pipe dream of world peace and utopia where lions lay down with sheep..

Despite what some severly deluded left extermist or new age hippy may tell you its not going to happen in a world that is based in competitiion and survival, war is part of the equation of life

This is just something people need to understand and come to terms with and is not a new discovery only the dead have seen the end of wars as Plato once said..

Even though I disagree with allot he taught but he was ahead of his time in regards to this.
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Red_Stinger on July 08, 2010, 12:09:06 PM
not true , the Nazi party was actually the German Workers party which equaled good until hitler came , now Nazi means something entirely different nowadays , but it is still popular even in the US.

Hitler come in the nazi party almost immediatly after its creation,  so it remain bad ^^"
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Seeme on July 08, 2010, 03:24:08 PM
I really just did that post to see how you would all react. :)
Title: Re: Did anyone actually win world war 2?
Post by: Akalonor on July 08, 2010, 10:36:53 PM
@Soverein , just because I said we din't learn the lesson doesn't mean it was supposed to be your scenario , I realise War is natural , it is almost needed , what I meant is we didn't learn our lesson of starting wars over pointless things. there are stories about an entire battalion of soldiers in Iraq who all gave different answers as to why they are there.

The world lost a whole generation because of the WW's, I'm not saying that waging war on Hitler was wrong , it was why Hitler rose to power in the first place that was wrong.