Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Suggestions => Ostheer Suggestions => Topic started by: shalar on February 17, 2010, 11:21:20 AM
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I will suggest the fact that the Ostheer by historical reasons MUST incorporate in some way the option to call axis non-german troops as happened in the real conflict. There MUST be some Hungarian, Romanian, Italian, Bulgarian and being polite also Spanish reinforcements in the field for the germans. Maybe a specific branch for that could be an option, but a simple free squad with countdown could be also interesting.
Hungarian, Bulgarian and Romanian troops where the main reason of the defeat in Stalingrad. They can not reject the soviet offensive and the Paulus army was sorrounded.
Relatively to the spaniards there you have historical references:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Division)
This kind of units I propose to be delivered in the field with a countdown ( like 10 mins or other balanced timing) not consuming resources and population must be weak to balance and as well to be accurate with the facts happened in the east front.
This units could be for example in a first development degree a weak spanish blue division unit equiparable at the wermacht volksgranadiers, then developing the branch or just only by using this hability once it could change the nationality of the "free reinforcement" and call a stronger (in each level or use) squad. For the most of uses/brench development I will suggest for example a Romanian elite division being strong as like a wehermacht granadiers squad.
For example I use Blue division: Appears a volksgranadiers like unit supposed to be spanish fascist volunteers. The skill can not be used until a time or other way until a new branch development.
Then when time passed or branch developed I can use the skill again and a squad of granadiers like unit appears as Rumanian reinforcements.
This way the idea can be incorporated and the programmers can balance and decide wich nationality and strenght of the unit appearing each time.
This concept must have a low impact in the core balance of the game as we call only one squad in the battlefield each time/use and the power of the squad as I said, can be nerfed to not have a strong impact in the game.
This can ensure that balance is not compromised and depth in realism for the mod* will rise a lot for all the people like me who like to play a ww2 game as realistic as possible.
*mod is not an accurate word for your work as I consider you might arrange any kind of agreement with THQ and make a lot of money with this nex full expansion you designed. Congratulations. I'm one of the bastards who will be disposed to BUY a copy of that superb work.
Thanks for reading my suggestion, excuse my bad english and community please, be magnanimous with your criticism on my idea.
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For obvious reasons i like this idea.
Advantage will be more variety for Ostheer,and will represent historical facts from Eastern front.
The war on the Eastern Front
On June 22, 1941, Germany launched Operation Barbarossa, attacking the Soviet Union on a wide front. Romania joined in the offensive, with Romanian troops crossing the River Prut. After recovering Bessarabia and Bukovina (Operation München), Romanian units fought side by side with the Germans onward to Odessa, Sevastopol, and Stalingrad. The Romanian contribution of troops was enormous. The total number of troops involved in the Romanian Third Army and the Romanian Fourth Army was second only to Nazi Germany itself. The Romanian Army had a total of 686,258 men under arms in the summer of 1941 and a total of 1,224,691 men in arms in the summer of 1944.[3] The number of Romanian troops sent to fight in Russia exceeded that of all of Germany's other allies combined.
Romania instituted a civil government in occupied Soviet lands immediately east of the Dniester. After the Battle of Odessa, this included the city of Odessa. The Romanian armies advanced far into the Soviet Union during 1941 and 1942 before being involved in the disaster at the Battle of Stalingrad in the winter of 1942-1943.
Romania's most important general, Petre Dumitrescu, was commander of the Romanian Third Army at Stalingrad. In November 1942, the German Sixth Army was briefly put at Dumitrescu's disposal during a German attempt to relieve the Romanian Third Army following a devastating Soviet offensive.
In September 1942, the Romanian Third Army and the Romanian Fourth Army started to take up their positions around Stalingrad together with the first elements of the Romanian Air Corps: on September 16, the 7th Fighter Group, on September 25, the 5th Bomber Group and, on October 4, the 1st Bomber, 8th Fighter, 6 Fighter-Bomber and 3rd Bomber Group arrived with the mission of providing air support for the 3rd Romanian and 6th German Armies.
The Romanian Third Army, commanded by General Petre Dumitrescu, was transferred from the Caucasus and replaced 5 Italian and 2 German divisions, between Blij Perekopa and Bokovkaya with the task of defending a front 138 km long, way beyond its possibilities. To make things worse, the Soviets had two bridgeheads over the Don River at Serafimovich and Kletskaya, which The German High Command ignored despite repeated requests by General Dumitrescu to be allowed to eliminate them. At the start of the Soviet offensive in November 1942, the 3rd Army had a nominal strength of 152,492 Romanian troops and 11,211 German troops, being made up from 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th Corps in a single echelon (1st Cavalry, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th and 14th Infantry Divisions) from West to East, with 7th Cavalry and 15th Infantry Divisions in reserve. The Long Range Recon (DO-17M) and the 112th Liaison Squadrons (Fleet 10G) were also at its disposal. In November came the German 48th Corps composed of the 22nd German Panzer Division and the 1st Romanian Armored Division, which also was put in reserve. It also had the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 8th Motorized Heavy Artillery Regiments and the 41st Independent Motorized Heavy Artillery Battalion. Opposite the 3rd Army was the Soviet Southwestern Front (1st Guard Army, 5th Tank Army and 21st Army), with a staggering force of 5,888 artillery pieces, 728 tanks and 790 planes.
The Romanian Fourth Army, commanded by General Constantin Constantinescu, having a nominal strength of 75,580 men, occupied a line south of the city, between Straya Otrada and Sarpa. It comprised the 6th and 7th Corps (1st, 2nd, 4th, 18th, 20th Infantry Divisions and the 5th and 8th Cavalry Divisions).The Romanian Air Corps put at its disposal the 15th, 16th, 17th Observation (IAR 39) and the 114th Liaison Squadrons (Fleet 10G) covering a front of 270 km long. Thus the 18th Cavalry covered a line of 100 km. The reserve were the 6th Roşiori Regiment, the 27th, 57th Pioneer Battalions and the 57th Recon Group. Also, the Fourth Panzer Army had in the area the 29th Motorized Infantry Division. This army was supposed to check the advance of the Stalingrad Front (51st, 62nd, 63rd and 57th Armies), which possessed 4,931 artillery pieces and 455 tanks.
In the North
On 19 November at 0530, in the sector of the 3rd Romanian Army, violent artillery barrages battered the entire front-line. The weather conditions were harsh: blizzard, snowing, -20 degrees Celsius, which made close air support impossible. The Soviets assaulted the positions of the 14th Infantry Division with the 5th Tank Army and the junction between the 13th Infantry Division and the 1st Cavalry Division with the 21st Army, with a total of 338,631 men against 3 weak divisions. The 37mm and 47mm AT guns were useless against Soviet tanks so the Romanian troops had to use grenades, anti-tank mines and Molotov cocktails. In the first hours they managed to delay the advance and destroy some armor, but later they had to retreat or be encircled. The Soviets also attacked west of Sarisa Valley and at Raspopinskaya but were repulsed. In response to the situation developed south of Kletskaya, the 48th Armored Corps was ordered to move towards the Soviet main thrust and shortly afterwards, the 22nd Panzer Division was redirected to northwest, towards Bolsoy and, reaching Petshany it engaged Soviet armor. By evening, the 1st Romanian Armored Division reached Sirkovsky, making preparations to attack Bolsoy the next day. In the first day of the offensive, the Soviet forces succeeded in making two breaches in the defence disposition ot the 3rd Romanian Army: one in the center, 16–18 km wide and 15 km deep and one in the right wing, between the 3rd Romanian Army and the 6th German Army, 10–12 km wide and 35–40 km deep.
On 20 November, the Soviet armored and motorized forces advanced towards Kalach, with the intention of encircling the 6th German Army fighting at Stalingrad. The 22nd Panzer Division, overwhelmed at Petshany by the large number of Soviet tanks, withdrew north to Bol. Donschynka. The 1st Romanian Armored Division, without any available radio contact, tried to advance to Petshany in order to make the junction with the 22nd Panzer Division, but was forced to stop a few kilometers West of Korotovsky by stiff Soviet resistance and numerous counterattacks with the Soviet tanks, flowing between the German 22nd and the Romanian 1st, occupying the Varlamovsky and Peralasovsky villages and making the junction with forces coming from Gromsky, thus encircling the 5th Corps. In the 4th Corps' sector, 40 Soviet tanks attacked the 15th Infantry Division but were repulsed by evening with heavy loses. Meanwhile, the 7th Cavalry Division unsuccessfully tried to block the enemy's advance, the right wing of the division, which had fully received the blow, was retreating south while the left wing was reassigned to the 9th Infantry Division. Also, the 1st Cavalry Division had to retreat towards Stalingrad and was subordinated to the 6th Army. At the end of the day, the defence position of the 3rd Romanian Army had a 70 km wide gap in the centre. In this pocket were encircled the 1st Armored Division, three infantry divisions (5th, 6th and 15th) and remains of other two infantry divisions (13th and 14th). The former commander of the 6th Infantry Division, Major General Mihail Lascăr, took command of the troops from the infantry divisions and formed the "General Lascăr" Group (40,000 men). At this point, the command point of the 3rd Army began moving to Morozovskaya.
On 21 November, the 22nd Panzer Division tried to advance towards Perelasovsky in order to make the junction with the 1st Armored Division and to relieve the "General Lascār" Group, but failed and was stopped the next day between Bol. Donschynka and Perelasovky. The 1st Romanian Armored Division was advancing towards Bol. Donschynka, where it was hoping to find the German Division, but the village was under Soviet control and then headed south and, after grim fighting, crossed the Chir river on the 25th.
On 22 November, the encircled "General Lascār" Group, which had been ordered to resist at any cost, was attacked and transmitted its last message. They had run out of food and each gun had only 40 rounds left and after refusing the Soviet proposal to surrender they were entirely destroyed. Only the 1st Battalion of the 15 Infantry Regiment (6th infantry Division) had succeeded in getting to the river Chir with all its soldiers and equipment commanded by Major Gheorghe Rasconescu. His battalion had managed to prevent the Soviet 8th Cavalry Division from capturing the vital German airfield at Oblivkaya from 26 November to 3 December.
On 23 November, the Soviet troops of the South-Western Front and of the Stalingrad Front met at Kalach-na-Donu, completing the encirclement of the German 6th Army, parts of the 4th Army and 6 other Romanian infantry divisions and one cavalry division.
In the South
On 20 November, the 4th Romanian Army's positions were attacked by the Soviet 57th and 51st Armies, with the main blow in the sector of the 20th, 2nd, 18th and 1st Infantry Divisions. The 57th Army attacked towards Sovetsky in the North-East and the 51st Army towards Kotelnikovsky in the south. The front was broken at the junction of the 2nd and 20th Infantry Divisions and at the junction ot the 1st and 18th Infantry Divisions. The Soviets advanced fast into the breaches created by the first wave, pushing the 13th Tank Corps towards Saty, the Soviet 4th Mechanized Corps towards Plodovitoyeand and, later, the 4th Cavalry Corps towards Abganerovo. By evening, the 1st and 2nd Infantry Divisions were virtually destroyed and the 18th Infantry Division was in danger of encirclement. Also, the link with the 20th Infantry Division was interrupted. Despite the stubborn resistance put up by the 91st Infantry Regiment and the 20th Pioneer Battalion, the Soviets broke through Tundutovo and Ivanovka, getting behind the division's position and, within an hour, most of the Romanian soldiers were either dead or captured.
On 21 November, the 57th Army advanced towards Sovetsky (17 km southeast of Kalach) to meet the forces of the South Western Front and encircled the German forces at Stalingrad, while the 51st Army advanced towards Kotelnikovo, along the Kotelnikovo-Stalingrad railroad. The 6th Corps tried to resist while the "Korne" Detachment(3rd, 4th Cavalry Regiments, 2nd Artillery Battalion and the 7th Heavy Artillery Regiment), backed by German armored units, triggered a counterattack towards Abganerovo, with the 29th German Motorized Infantry Division attacking from the northwest. The action failed due to lack of efficient anti-tank weapons.
On 22 November, the Soviets took hold of Mal. Derbety and Tundutovo and the "Korne" Detachment was attacked in the Krasnay-Geroy area, suffering heavy losses. The proposal made by the Romanian Command to fall back to better positions on the Aksay River clashed with the German Command's decision of holding firmly.
On 23 November, the deputy chief of Staff of the 4th Army demanded and received from the Romanian General Headquarters the ability to take decisions independently from the 4th Panzer Army. Subsequently, the 6th Corps fell back to the Aksay River, but to no avail as the Soviets were already controlling the communication center of Aksay. The "Korne" Detachment fell back leaving the flank of the 7th Corps uncovered. At the same time the 5th Cavalry and the 4th Infantry Divisions were attacked from the east. In order to prevent the Soviet advance between the railroad and the river Don, a new defence line, with the center at Kotelnikovo was established. In the afternoon, the Soviet troops of the Stalingrad Front met the South-Western Front troops in Sovetsky area, encircling the German forces at Stalingrad. Receiving information information about the arrival of a German detachment, the 4th Romanian Army's commander decided that the positions must be held. The 6th Corps was on the southern bank of the Aksay River, the 4th Infantry Division from Umansevo to Kotsubayev and the 5th Cavalry Division further to Perednaya Elista with the link between the two corps being provided by the "Korne" Detachment.
The end
On 24 November the Soviet activity was reduced, but the next day the Russian troops attacked towards Kotenikovo between the Don and the railroad, pushing the 4th Infantry Division southwards from the left bank of the 7th Corps.
On 26 November, the "Korne" and "Pannwitz" Detachments managed to push back the Soviet troops which had infiltrated between the two Romanian corps. On the 27th, the Soviets approaching Kotelnikovo were also repelled by counterattack of the "Paunwitz" Detachement and units of the 6th Panzer Division, which had recently arrived in preparation for the counter strike to relieve the Axis forces in Stalingrad. The soviets managed to break through the line of the 6th Corps at the 18th Infantry Division, thus forcing it to retreat on an alignment 25–30 km south of the river. The losses of the 4th Romanian Army in this operation were catastrophic: up to 80% in personnel at the 1st, 2nd and 18th Infantry divisions.
On 16 December, the Soviet Third Guards Army started Operation Little Saturn and attacked Army Group Hollidt to which was subordinated the 3rd Romanian Army, along the river Chir. On 18 December, the Soviet Sixth Army broke through the defence of the Italian 8th Army and the 18th, 24th and 25th Tank Corps penetrated deep behind Axis lines, threatening the rear of the front on the Chir.
On 22 December the banks of the river Chir were abandoned by the left wing of Army Group Hollidt as they retreated towards Morozovskaya. On 27 December, the 7th Cavalry Division started to retreat towards Bisry after 40 days of continuous fighting, but the following day, General Karl-Adolf Hollidt assigned the 11th Roşiori and 11th Cālāraşi Regiments and the 61st Recon Group the task of defending the German depots at Chernigof. The Romanian cavalrymen held the town against Soviet attacks until 2 January 1943, when they eventually retreated. They were the last Axis troops to leave the Chir line.
To the South, the remains of the 4th Army and the Romanian Air Corps were engaged in Operation Wintergewitter, which aimed to create a link with the Axis troops in Stalingrad. The main blow was going to be delivered by the German 57th Panzer Corps; on its left flank was the Romanian 6th Corps with the Romanian 7th Corps and the Cavalry Group General Popescu forming the right flank. They were stopped 50 km from Stalingrad and, on 18 December, the front held by the 8th Italian Army was broken with 7 Italian divisions and the Italian Alpine Corps being encircled.
On 24 December, the Red Army counterattacked, with 149,000 men and 635 tanks, the German 57th Panzer Corps and the Romanian 4th Army and on 29 December, the 57th Panzer had to abandon Kotelnikosky, which sealed the fate of the Axis troops in Stalingrad.
On 15 January 1943 came another devastating blow: The Hungarian 2nd Army was encircled and eventually destroyed, with 147,971 casualties.
On 2 February 1943, the resistance of Axis troops in Stalingrad ceased. Out of the 91,000 prisoners taken by the Soviets, only 3,000 were Romanian. These were the survivors of the 20th Infantry Division, 1st Cavalry Division and "Colonel Voicu" Detachement. The Romanian Army lost 158,854 men (dead, wounded and missing) between 19 November 1942 and 7 January 1943. This represented 16 of the 18 divisions engaged at Stalingrad and half of the active troops (31 divisions). The Romanian Air Corps lost 73 airplanes (26 in battle and the rest on the ground).
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The Spanish "Blue Division" passed through my grandfathers village in Baden. He told me they were very nice, and the town was devastated when they learnt most of them had died on the Eastern Front.
I have some photos of them I can post if anyone is interested. Always glad to chat with those with an interest in WWII.
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i am sure they were nice guys (blue division)
but to volunteer for the war on the eastern front you had to be a pretty die hard facist.
anyway i would love to see foreign troops, because it would add a cool historic touch and blue division is the best example
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We can have such faction on the Eastern Front:
- Hungary had good non-German tanks
- Croatia
- Slovakia
- Italy had interesting non-German tanks
- Finland had captured old and new Russian tanks
- Romania
- Bulgaria
- Spain
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the spaniards are more similar panzergrenadier than volks by the spanish have the spanish civil war experience and the officers are professional soldiers and many volunters proceed from the spanish legion(shock troopers in africa war and spanish civil war).
the finis used the pz iv and stug but the italian tanks were pure bulls.ht,compare with russinas and german tanks.
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Finnish winter troops, like a sniper intergrated in a 4 man team, can camo and stuff, fast moving light recon squad
Italian Alpine troops, like unsupresable heavy squad 6 man, anti tank aswell
Hungarian Light Inf: Masters against infantry in woods and camo in woods too.
Austrian Stormtroopers: Just storm troopers, re skinned, keeps people happy cos its another nation in there :p
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Austrian Stormtroopers: Just storm troopers, re skinned, keeps people happy cos its another nation in there :p
For all accounts and purposes, the Austrians were Germans during WWII.
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Austrian Stormtroopers: Just storm troopers, re skinned, keeps people happy cos its another nation in there :p
Like Rahvenich said, Austrians are pretty much Germans.
Austrian and German "Proper" history is interwined ever since the creation of the Holy Roman Empire.
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We can have such faction on the Eastern Front:
- Hungary had good non-German tanks
- Croatia
- Slovakia
- Italy had interesting non-German tanks
- Finland had captured old and new Russian tanks
- Romania
- Bulgaria
- Spain
Czechoslovakia had a good non German tanks which become useful for several modifications
the light tank Lt 35 was used by Bulgaria as T11 and modified by Hungary as T21 Turan or Romanian TACAM R2
the Lt 38 was used by Germany as Panzer 38(t) E, F, G and was modified as
Flakpanzer 38(t)
Marder III
Grille
Hetzer
or the OA vz. 30 - armored car was used by a few axis countries
also a lot of machineguns and other weapons was used by axis
Czechoslovakia was one of the best armed countries before the war...
also we had good aeroplanes here's a list of some
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avia)
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And Hungarians had:
Medium tank 40M Turan I - 285 or 279 tanks
Medium tank 40M Turan II - 139 or 180 tanks
Anti-aircraft tank 40M Nimrod - 135 tanks
Assault gun 40/43M Zrinyi II - 66 guns
Armoured scout car 39M Csaba & 40M Csaba - 135 cars
Light Tank 38M Toldi I,II,IIA,III - 202 tanks
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Forgetting the Romanians? They deserve to be in this more than any other nation simply because they provided more troops to the axis war cause in the east than all of Germany's other aliies combined.
Romanian infantry and AT Grenadier are a must, also some nice vehicles they had to incorporate:
R2 LT-35 Light Tank
TACAM R2 Tank destroyer
T-4(Romanian Panzer IV, so add Romanians colours and make it a call-in)
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the finis used the pz iv and stug but the italian tanks were pure bulls.ht,compare with russinas and german tanks.
There were 15 Panzer IV's bought, but those came so late that they never saw any combat against Russians, and were instead used against Germans in the Lapland War. There were 29 StuG III's (and 30 Stu 40's) in the use of Finnish Army, and those saw mainly combat during the summer -44.
Most of the Finnish Army tanks were Soviet, captured in either Winter War or the early days of Continuation War.
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I really do appreciate the historical battlefield and the data discussion generated by my proposal so I'm sure that I'll talk for all the community when I ask you not to argue about what faction should be more representative just in this tread. And also make clear that I disagree on the fact of copy-paste a full wikipedia article in this forum. Doing that you are just doing the most boring thread, long and heavy and this way people loses all the interest in the idea discussion.
I would be glad to see an specific thread where all us can argue about what nationality needs to be in more representation so before that friends, we need to convince the developpers team to incorporate this idea into the Oostheer concept. So then I call you all to support and discuss about the heart of the idea and the way to take it into the playability of Company of Heroes and stop arguing about other things that should be argued in the future if we can afford the objective of incorporate this idea in the game.
I will appreciate any comment from the developer team also. What you think about that idea is it just a thing to consider or you reject it from the beginning?
Thanks to all and please talk about the idea and not about other things right in this post.
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And Hungarians had:
Medium tank 40M Turan I - 285 or 279 tanks
Medium tank 40M Turan II - 139 or 180 tanks
Anti-aircraft tank 40M Nimrod - 135 tanks
Assault gun 40/43M Zrinyi II - 66 guns
Armoured scout car 39M Csaba & 40M Csaba - 135 cars
Light Tank 38M Toldi I,II,IIA,III - 202 tanks
That's correct. The Hungarian tanks were effective until the apperance of the T34, so if you put them in, it would heve a low tech unit in tier 1 or 2 whatever. The basic infantry would be called "conscripts" or "Volunteers" basic and low quality infantry.
Romanian infantry and AT Grenadier are a must, also some nice vehicles they had to incorporate:
R2 LT-35 Light Tank
TACAM R2 Tank destroyer
T-4(Romanian Panzer IV, so add Romanians colours and make it a call-in)
The problem of the Tacam R2 TD, is that was in service fromm 1944-'45, and had a russian 75 mm gun mounted on it. I think, in this time Rumanians turned against the Germans, supporting the Allies, but the Developers will choose the units. It would be a uniqe look with these units for the faction Ostheer.
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yea and those Turan tanks and Zrinyi assault gun was based on the Czechoslovak chassis...
okey i wasn't saying Hungary don't have tanks just wrote that Czechoslovakia also had them...
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yea and those Turan tanks and Zrinyi assault gun was based on the Czechoslovak chassis...
okey i wasn't saying Hungary don't have tanks just wrote that Czechoslovakia also had them...
No, no, no. That was Swedish licenced tanks, and customized by Hungarian engineers. It got heavier armour, and new guns.
http://modern-war.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_swedish_landsverk_l60_tank (http://modern-war.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_swedish_landsverk_l60_tank)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftv%C3%A4rnskanonvagn_L-62_Anti_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftv%C3%A4rnskanonvagn_L-62_Anti_II)
These are similar designs. The all Pz 38(t)'s are used by the German engineers, because that was the best tank in the Wehrmacht arsenal at that time. Heavier tanks such Pz3 and Pz4s were in development or in prototype phase.
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40M Turan I was a Hungarian tank of World War II - a total of 424 were made in two variants: Turan I with a 40 mm gun and Turan II with a 75 mm gun. It was based on the design of the Czechoslovak Škoda T-21 medium tank prototype.
also canon of Turan I was from Skoda manufacturer
and Zrinyi was based on Turan so we get back to an Czechoslovakia... ;)
Post Merge: February 25, 2010, 05:11:45 PM
Here you can see how much armored cars, tanks, tanketes and much more units Czechoslovak army had there are prototypes and successful models
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?138192-Czechoslovak-army-1918-1938 (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?138192-Czechoslovak-army-1918-1938)
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Those early tanks... lol.
Yes those licence bought from the Chezslovak companys, but produced, and then upgraded in Hungary, they fought under the white cross. For example, when you buy a car, it is you're car, or the companys, you bought?
By the way the blueprints looks cool:
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/tanks/tanks-a/14557/view/43_m_zrinyi_ii_%28hungary%29/ (http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/tanks/tanks-a/14557/view/43_m_zrinyi_ii_%28hungary%29/)
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/tanks/tanks-a/14556/view/41_m_turan_ii_%28hungary%29/ (http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/tanks/tanks-a/14556/view/41_m_turan_ii_%28hungary%29/)
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/tanks/tanks-a/15751/view/40m_csaba/ (http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/tanks/tanks-a/15751/view/40m_csaba/)
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/tanks/tanks-a/25603/view/44_m_hungarian_heavy_tank_of_wwii/ (http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/tanks/tanks-a/25603/view/44_m_hungarian_heavy_tank_of_wwii/)
The last one was only prototype...
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Well if I owned a German-designed, German-owned car that was made in a British factory, then it is still a German car.
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theres a different betwen making something totally new which isn't easy or just modified something else which is good
btw only what i wanted to say is to take Czechoslovak army and their production more seriously...
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btw none of the pages you posted aren't working...
btw2 only what i wanted to say is to take Czechoslovak army and their production more seriously...
[/quote]
Those pages are working in Poland.
Anyway czech production was taken seriously in COH OF (Marders and Hetzers).
Its the Romanian/Hungarian/Italian troops that should apear in EF.
Croatia, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Spain werent that important.
Finland was tired of fighting a 1939-40 war and only wanted to retake its territories taken in 1940.
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Marder and Hetzer represent more Germany then Czechoslovakia
and i don't think much of the Italian,Romanian,Hungarian units were used on eastern Front in term of units i mean armament, maybe a few tanks, guns...was used on EF some were used on WF and there wasn't so many of them...
anyway Czechoslovakia weapon manufactures was important betwen first and second world war it was one of the best arsenal in Europe...
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Well if I owned a German-designed, German-owned car that was made in a British factory, then it is still a German car.
Yeah, if it is the same from part-to-part, but it depends the point of wiev. Here is a comparison:
(http://kepfeltoltes.hu/thumb/100226/Comparison_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.gif) (http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/100226/Comparison_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.gif)
A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu (http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu)
Or we can say it's the variants of the the Chezlovak tanks if you want. And what changes of the history? Hungarians crewed that tanks fought and died there.
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You just write bad example because when Korean Kia had factory in some Europe city its still Korean
also that's a bad compare
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-35t.htm (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-35t.htm)
read this from top to end (or just look on the pictures :D)
nothing will change in history i want to demonstrate that Czechoslovakia production and armory was very good, better then Romanian, Hungary or Finish and more...
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Better weapon production capabilities not mean good warriors.
Romania with his "poor" equipment in WW2 was able to make a slaughter in russian lines.Romanians fight to the death if they have confidence in their commanders.In WW2 like in other romanian wars,can be found allot of exceptional commanders.If romanians go in war just death can stop them.Very few surrender.If they make step back,they do that because avoid unnecessary looses,and strike back with unimaginable precision and power where it hurt the most.All romanian counter attacks are devastating for enemy.If is no chance for victory,they will prefer to die in the last battle,inflicting to the enemy enormous damage in manpower,equipment and moral.
Romanian troops in eastern front was half from all combined country,allied with germany and that mean something.
War machines are controlled by humans.
Good machines controlled by idiots don't have too many chance of success.
One man with a rifle and some grenades can make allot of nasty things to the enemy.
One million can be a nightmare.
If they don't have weapons for destroying tanks in open field,they will lay traps,and romanians are experts in this things.Our history is full with crushing victories with 30.000 soldiers against 120.000,or where our beautiful womens has fought with the courage of the man in the front line in close combat.Our field are full of bones from the enemies.
All arrogant empires who has come in my country with bad intentions has found perish,sooner or late.
Romanians don't like heavy weapons,heavy armors or heavy tanks.They prefer to be a mobile force,capable of surprising enemies and making great damage.For example falxman warriors from Dacia(romania) was very dangerous foe against the roman soldiers(Roman Empire).This weapon was able to cut a man in two parts in one blow with all his armor.This weapon has forced romans to improve their armors because simply was useless when they fought against this "barbarians".
Always romanians have something to surprise the enemies.They are masters of ambushes.They are masters in simulating to be helpless to attract the prey in the trap.From the romanian traps is no escape from death.The most powerful army from the world caught in the romanian trap/ambush will have no chance to survive.
When Romania turned his wepons against Germny,no one has come to help them.They was able to destroy or rout all german forces from romanian territories.Russia has avoided in entering in romanian territories,because they has known about the danger of loosing allot of his mighty forces in this confrontation.If russians would made this mistake,probably was a fatal mistake,because not enough power has remained after that for defeating germany.
In their homeland,romanians know no fear,and are able to destroy enemies far superior in number or equipment.Romanians learn fast,and always use captured weapons against enemies.This is the reason why allot of romanian equipment from WW2 was from many countries.They take all,and use what is the most appropriate for their combat stile.If something don't fit,will be adapted.
Someone has suggested romanian grenadiers.They was very good soldiers,but also don't forget about mountain hunters.
Romania in World War 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFBOeWsUgZs&feature=related#normal)
Armata romana (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBKvOTjzgBg&feature=related#normal)
Song for iron guard
garda de fier legiunea capitanul (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V_Uah-pGqw#normal)
Nothing in this world is more holly
And the more beauty on the ground
than to die as a fighter
wrapped in tricolor(tricolor=three colors from romanian flag)
......................................
........................................
......................................
Romanian generals from World War II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q72fl3QWFo&feature=related#normal)
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Marder and Hetzer represent more Germany then Czechoslovakia
Do you even know there was no Czechoslovakia in 1939-1944?
Czech republic was a part o the III Reich.
Marder and Hetzer had LT-38 tank chasies made in Českomoravská Kolben Daněk and Škoda so their as Czech sa they can be.
Theres no point of making a LT-38 tank becouse it cant apear on the map before allies can get a Stuart/57mm (balance). Later it will be obsolete.
Post Merge: February 26, 2010, 12:59:10 AM
Better weapon production capabilities not mean good warriors.
Whats with this nationalist bull-shit PSIHOPAT?
It usually was true thas poor men (soviets, greece, ghurka rifles) didnt care much about their life but all squads in COH can fight till the "end".
Also who cares about Dacia times. COH is WWII!
The fact from Stalingrad is: Romanians cant stop a T-34 with guns or traps.
My idea - a "poor"->basic swapped Italian/Romanian/Hungarian tier I.
1. 5 man squad with 1 LMG upgrade (re-skinned bren) and AT granades.
2. 37/47mm AT gun.
3. Scout car/bike.
One more thing. There may be a Italian voice version of COH(not just subs) but I doubt there is an Romanian version. So Romanian soldiers wont speak Romanian!
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Jesus H. I forget what this thread is about because of a wall of text that made me want to gouge my eyes out... if we use 'foreign' units then it should only be one or two major countries, not small ones that really didn't play a major roll in the war
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I disagree, hgghg4. The smaller countries are less likely to have worked independently from the Germans, hence it making more sense to include them in a German faction. The more represented ones would make more sense as separate factions, even if that's not happening.
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"The fact from Stalingrad is: Romanians cant stop a T-34 with guns or traps"
In krasny bor(leningrad front in 1943) the blaue division stop a russian attack formed by 44,000 soldiers,100 tanks,187 arrtillery pieces used pak 36,mg34,kar98,mp 40,mines and grenades.
the axis forces were 5,300 spaniards and two companies of france ss.
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"The fact from Stalingrad is: Romanians cant stop a T-34 with guns or traps"
In krasny bor(leningrad front in 1943) the blaue division stop a russian attack formed by 44,000 soldiers,100 tanks,187 arrtillery pieces used pak 36,mg34,kar98,mp 40,mines and grenades.
the axis forces were 5,300 spaniards and two companies of france ss.
But the blaue division is not Romanian and its not an army ("just" a volunteer division of civil war veterans). Spain wasnt even at war with Soviets.
They olso were defending a "krasny bor" - beautiful forest not open plains of ukraine.
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Paciat i know the fact that from 1939 - 1945 wasn't Czechoslovakia but before we were one country with one government the Factories was also in Slovakia and some weapons were build ed in there. So when in 1939 Slovakia gained autonomy we get our president and new name but that don't change fact we were a long before one republic
and to your idea Slovakia troops can be equipped well
some 5 man with LMG upgrade - main rifle vz 24
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vz._24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vz._24)
upgrade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZB_vz._26 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZB_vz._26) (Bren is a modification of that LMG)
need AT?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/37_mm_kanon_P.U.V._vz._37 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/37_mm_kanon_P.U.V._vz._37)
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/47_mm_kanon_P.U.V._vz._36_%28%C5%A0koda_A6%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/47_mm_kanon_P.U.V._vz._36_%28%C5%A0koda_A6%29)
or better upgrade?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZH-29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZH-29) probably not used on EF but its a game not reenactment here's a picture of that thing
http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/rifles/armaslr/arm065.jpg (http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/rifles/armaslr/arm065.jpg)
and more...
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One - romanian soldiers must be represented correct or not at all,because is well known about romanians to be tough fighters.
Second - the power of the army is not represented by the size of the territory.The huge size filled with chickens can scare some cowards at the first look,but when the combat test come,the truth cannot be ignored by both parts
Third - this mod represent contributions of some countries in Eastern Front with manpower and equipment,not with the size of the lands or sleeping population at their home.
Forth - The romanian army in eastern front was seconded just by Germany himself.All other countries in that territory are just little sh***.If Romania would choose to fight against Germania,with Russia as allied,history would be very different today,but this thing cannot even be imagined.The generals was very good,but the king was a idiot because has turned the weapons against Germany(with more than one million soldiers prepared).If this thing would not happened,allot of countries from Europe today would speak another language,and lost almost all national identity.
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krasny bor a forest? the spanish lines have a range 20 km formed by lines of trenchs a mg nest in open field.
my idea is add a non germans troops doctrine and add the best for this countrys for example:
finis sniper and infiltration troops
romania tanks
italy alpini
Hungarian SS Volunteer Cavalry Division Maria Theresia
spanish infantry or pak mg from this division
bulgarians tanks...
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i agree with you PSIHOPAT
id like to see other countries to it could be in every building should be some unit from Axis like Italy, Romania, Hungary, Finish i don't have problem with that but also id like to see Slovakia there and that whats I'm trying to show at...
Czechoslovakia was smaller then other countries but in the 30 and especially when Hitlers power was rising we stated to making plans of the defending our homeland we build up many defensive lines comparable to Maginot line
http://img156.imageshack.us/i/pict4636a6fo.jpg/ (http://img156.imageshack.us/i/pict4636a6fo.jpg/)
a lot of photos of the bunkers light or heavier
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?82534-The-frontier-bunker-system-of-Czechoslovakia-%28a-lot-ofpics-schemes%29&highlight=czechoslovak%20bunker (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?82534-The-frontier-bunker-system-of-Czechoslovakia-%28a-lot-ofpics-schemes%29&highlight=czechoslovak%20bunker)
there was plan that we hold Nazi attacks until help from France, Great Britain comes (they were former allies)
but that never happens because France and Britain "sold us for peace" but the peace wasn't about year later WWII started...
we were prepared to fight against Nazi expansion because we had trained soldiers and good equipment.
later Slovakia troops fought on the Axis side with those weapons...
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Paciat i know the fact that from 1939 - 1945 wasn't Czechoslovakia but before we were one country with one government the Factories was also in Slovakia and some weapons were build ed in there. So when in 1939 Slovakia gained autonomy we get our president and new name but that don't change fact we were a long before one republic
and to your idea Slovakia troops can be equipped well
some 5 man with LMG upgrade - main rifle vz 24
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vz._24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vz._24)
upgrade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZB_vz._26 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZB_vz._26) (Bren is a modification of that LMG)
need AT?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/37_mm_kanon_P.U.V._vz._37 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/37_mm_kanon_P.U.V._vz._37)
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/47_mm_kanon_P.U.V._vz._36_%28%C5%A0koda_A6%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/47_mm_kanon_P.U.V._vz._36_%28%C5%A0koda_A6%29)
or better upgrade?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZH-29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZH-29) probably not used on EF but its a game not reenactment here's a picture of that thing
http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/rifles/armaslr/arm065.jpg (http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/rifles/armaslr/arm065.jpg)
and more...
Did the III reich or Slovakia used those weapons on mass or are you just another guy (like PSIHOPAT but he at least has more than a 1M soldiers to prove it) that is saing my country is the most important so it must be in Ostheer.
Every army had rifles, LMGs and light AT-guns. Thats not good equipment. Its basic. And who cares if the equipment is good or bad? COH needs basic and elite units and its impossible to be more elite than elite german units.
PSIHOPAT can probably show "quality equipment" of Romanian army.
If youre going to post back GamblerSK, start by saing how many divisions slovakia had?
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Will be good if Romania will be represented with some infantry units.
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no they don't have a lot of troops on the EF around 45 000 and most of other countries (except Italy they produce many own weapons) were using weapons bought from other countries so whats so interest on of using reskined German pak as Hungary AT for example? many of Czechoslovakia weapons were used by other countries like Germany some were used by SS troops so i think had an troops with some new weapons which were really used and were good is better...
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this willl allways be a funny subject there are the people who don't want them for no real reason then there are the people who really want them for no real reason ;D I would like to see it because of the fact that, that would be historicaly correct
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i want to see them all, all units from countries which joined EF theatre on the Axis side, some people here thinks i want the Slovak army be the only ostheer units but that's not right i want all the countries to be represented there as it was in real
Eastern Front was a theatre of war between the European Axis powers, Germany, Italy, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Croatia and Finland (not an Axis member), and the Soviet Union
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Well; i'm against including all axis-forces.
My reason is that this would be too much for the "Ostheer". Hundredths of different infantry-formation; CoH hadnt so much missiontypes for infantry and about tanks we dont have to talk - u guys know when both Hungarian panzer-divisions saw first combat? End 1943 when russian forces came closer to Hungarian - before this date most of the "axis"tanks were used against partisans or in a very very small number as "alert"-unit.
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This mod have some 3D models for units and romanian voices/sound.
http://www.carpathiancrosses.com/index.php?s=media (http://www.carpathiancrosses.com/index.php?s=media)
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Well. I havent said that u cant make a "axis-eastern front"
faction but i think it is absolutely needless to "push up" a
german Ostheer with other axis nations.
So my opinion:
No mixed german Ostheer.
When an Ostheer then just a german Ostheer
OR a "axis" easter front amry with german support
( but then germans are quiet rare ).
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With Romania in Ostheer will be allot of materials for campaign.
Ostheer without any unit from allied countries will be just another "rusty" german faction represented wrong,with all attempts.
The rare equipment used in Eastern Front(german symbol of might& power) is rejected for Ostheer,but also rejecting half of his strength(allies) is a very very bad decision leading to catastrophic bad and comical result.
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Well; i'm against including all axis-forces.
My reason is that this would be too much for the "Ostheer". Hundredths of different infantry-formation; CoH hadnt so much missiontypes for infantry and about tanks we dont have to talk - u guys know when both Hungarian panzer-divisions saw first combat? End 1943 when russian forces came closer to Hungarian - before this date most of the "axis"tanks were used against partisans or in a very very small number as "alert"-unit.
Soo true. But everyone speaks about elite units.
Romanian constripts would be a great early game infantry. As tough as volks they would have an LMG upgrade, AT granades or stickies.
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Finns trump all. Their decoy, ambush, divide, and destroy tactics were amazing even with inferior or scarce equipment. In one ambush operation the Finns wiped out nearly 2 whole divisions, totaling 9000 soviet casualties, while only suffering only 400 HUNDRED themselves and captured a bunch of equipment include some KV-1's.
Two things about the Finns however. They fought almost completely isolated from the Germans (well Brits and Americans are in the USSR right?) and in a way were not a axis power, the Russians made them fight in defense of Stalin's land grabbing. Even the Americans and Brits were contemplating sending the Finns aid, maybe even troops, but they did not really need another enemy and Stalin kept more than half of Germany's army a wee bit occupied for them.
Finland does not have many unique units or abilities I can think of though besides ambush or determination, maybe there could be a "Allied Nation" doctrine with a combo of most of the above mentioned in abilities somehow.
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Well. I havent said that u cant make a "axis-eastern front"
faction but i think it is absolutely needless to "push up" a
german Ostheer with other axis nations.
So my opinion:
No mixed german Ostheer.
When an Ostheer then just a german Ostheer
OR a "axis" easter front amry with german support
( but then germans are quiet rare ).
but the ostherr went mixed army a example
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4971/capturada99999.jpg (http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4971/capturada99999.jpg)
from left to right:
ss 2nd brigade---germans
250 WH division--spanish
ss units----------estonian
212 WH DIVISION-germans
etc...
a idea only add allieds inside the german army or ss.
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Well. CoH dont simulate "Divisions" on battlefields.
Maps arent so hugh.
Real war is real different from CoH war and
gameplay is something different from real combat.
And unit names are a tribute to the history and
history is no tribute for a pc game ;)
I think an Ostheer should be in first line a GERMAN army because they were the invaders, the ideological invaders. Other nations were "support" and so u should handle it at CoH.
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Collection of photography
Romanian Army in WW II
Romanian Army in WW II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkn-BrPrYIU&feature=related#normal)
Romanian Armed Forces on the Eastern Front 1941-43 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGATJnZAQAg#normal)
This words are well written in the brains of the most romanians.
Nothing in the world's holiest and most beautiful on this earth than to die like a warrior wrapped in the tricolor(national flag).
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The Panzer Elite are kinda supposed to be the SS. I am guessing Relic sees it as kinda politically incorrect to have a game where you could play as such an ethically infamous force.
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Anyone played mEn of war red tide? its all about russia balck sea marines versus romanians. The black sea was a bigger theatre then anyone remembers and had lots of romanians righting.
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u guys know when both Hungarian panzer-divisions saw first combat? End 1943 when russian forces came closer to Hungarian - before this date most of the "axis"tanks were used against partisans or in a very very small number as "alert"-unit.
Well, in 1942 Jun. 28 the 2. Hungarian army braked through Field Marshall Rokosszovszkij's lines (with German support). That was the Weichs Battlegroup. If you have in mind that the Hungarian tank battalions begun to form up from 1938, probably there was a few tanks in the Hungarian Royal Army. lol I didn't got proper numbers, but it is hard to believe non of these tanks saw the eastern front.
I wanted to give the developers some idea, having any of those nationalist bulls*t away, because its not a political topic, and it is really sad that I have to argue with nationalist freaks. Its boring. I have a lot of things in my mind but it's really off topic.
So, yeah you can copy-paste units from Coh, but it would be a disappointment after the Soviet faction. It's you're mod guys... Anyways I wish you the best and don't let me down. Make the Ostheer as good as the Soviets.
God be with you.
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"Hungarian, Bulgarian and Romanian troops where the main reason of the defeat in Stalingrad."
@shalar
The Royal Hungarian 2nd Army was stationed at the Curve of the Don river and although it lacked the manpower and heavy weapons it was ordered to defend a stretch of MLR that soldiers were stationed 50 yards from one another to cover the total lenght. Kampfgruppe Kramer held command of the limited Hungarian armour and even the Hungarian tanks could not enter the battle when the Kampfgruppe turned around and executed a withdraw. Those tankers watched their countrymen get decimated and could not, under order, help them. The Hungarian high command protested how the Hungarian winter clothing and food, ammo and medical supplies didnt even reach the front line as the Germans held it back as they suspected the thin MLR will be overrun.
The Russian attacked on that particular section because they knew the Hungarians were over committed and the Germans have no intention of throowing their armour in the battle despite promises made by the German high command.
In spite of all this the Hungarians held the line for days and even pushed back the Russians several times. Villages in the sector were re-occupied and the line was strenghtened in the belief that Kampfgruppe Kramer will arrive. The losses exceeded 50%, in some areas all Hungarians died in division force on the ground they were designated to defend.
Then they pulled back and fought their way all they to the Transylvanian border and then into Hungary covering thousands of kilometres. In the process they destroyed more then 400 Russian tanks and stopped the Russian tzunami twice.
In access of 800 000 Hungarians died in all this. Among them my grandfather.
How can you say that Hungarians are to blame in any degree for the disaster of Stalingrad? I have never heard such disrespectful statement. I suggest you look for the real reasons: attacking Stalingrad was the cause of the disaster. Ordering the 6th Army to stay put was the cause of the disaster. Believing Goring that he will save the situation was the cause of the disaster. And I could go on and on.
But stating in confidence that the Hungarians are to be blamed whereas they fought and held the line for days with no winter clothing, no food or ammo, no medical supplies, ill-equipped with light infantry forces against Russian Tank divisions in winter clothing, well-fed and resupplied with heavy arti support, is criminal!
Shame on you!
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Finns trump all. Their decoy, ambush, divide, and destroy tactics were amazing even with inferior or scarce equipment.
Think about balance for once not about elite units.
Even the Americans and Brits were contemplating sending the Finns aid, maybe even troops.
It was in 1939-1940 when III Reich and USRR were allies!
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The most catastrophic allied for Germany was Italy.
Their force was large,but combat skill...terrible...with some exceptions...
About Hungary...what i can say...they was beaten in history even by romanian womens when they attempting to invade transilvania.
Their population was and is less then half compared with Romania.Any comparison between these countries is useless,because all is clear,and history confirm that.
Hey bozgor asculta asta
"end of romania" raspuns pt.bozgori (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuSOT-9MJg4&feature=related#normal)
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Their population was and is less then half compared with Romania.Any comparison between these countries is useless,because all is clear,and history confirm that.
have a lot of men ready to die is fine but you need a good equipment if you want to be effective, fact that Romania had a lot of people is one thing but without good weapons and strategy that works you cant win, defending homeland you know is another thing...
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Any comparison between these countries is useless,because all is clear,and history confirm that.
History confirmed nothing between the nations ;)
Or better; your view of history is "very short" because
Hungary was an old and strong "nation/state" ( think of the "great equestrian people - the Magyars" ).
And during ww2 hungarian forces are still interesting because of their own tanks ( Turan, Toldi, and so on ).
Romanies were "interesting" for infantry support.
And so here is my favorite problem of CoH: not so much missions for infantry -> long range, short range, suppressing, anti tank and scout.
At the end i wont belittle some of this nations but for CoH i think they werent so good to represent any "main function".
Perhaps a support role in a GERMAN Ostheer but no "key element".
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I think if all three doctrine represent three allied countries,and unlocking specific units would be interesting.
Or at last one unit from every doctrine(unique),and another from buildings.
P.S. maybe is good to put just hungarians in Osther,because i want to kill some.GOD I HATE THEM!!!Romanians are friendly people and this is the reason why allot people from many countries has settled here living peacefully,but this "nation" always attempt to make troubles.They love nothing than himself and hostility is all what they know.In short time in the future,they will have a "little surprise".I can't wait that :D
Siege of Budapest - Romanian Army vs German Army (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nRnK83naUw#normal)
The Battle Of Budapest 1944 - Waffen SS vs Romanian Army (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lyzgL90Z4E&feature=PlayList&p=0654A30EEBE58F5F&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=51#normal)
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please dont add traitor allieds,countries that declared war on Germany:italy,romania,ect...,i prefere only german osther or ss volunters,countries traitors who did more harm than good.
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i think its more problem of the government and political situation which makes "bad air" almost today we have a lot of Magyar people in our south side of the country and their most normal but the impulsive factor is from the politics and the nationalist movements such as jobbik...
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Traitor was the romanian king,not the people.
It was a idiot,and his son is even today exiled and hated by the majority of romanians.
For all who like to watch documentaries,i recommend this
(1/10) Battlefield II The Battle of the Crimea Ep8 World War II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9k81yWbpdw&feature=related#normal)
(2/10) Battlefield II The Battle of the Crimea Ep8 World War II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr7Abh6rm1I&feature=related#normal)
(3/10) Battlefield II The Battle of the Crimea Ep8 World War II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fob9HV6Yh3s&feature=related#normal)
(4/10) Battlefield II The Battle of the Crimea Ep8 World War II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcG3AkmGAGE&feature=related#normal)
(5/10) Battlefield II The Battle of the Crimea Ep8 World War II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8C23T6k84o&feature=related#normal)
(6/10) Battlefield II The Battle of the Crimea Ep8 World War II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=316wa-R6NCY&feature=related#normal)
(7/10) Battlefield II The Battle of the Crimea Ep8 World War II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdzBvg7zMis&feature=related#normal)
(8/10) Battlefield II The Battle of the Crimea Ep8 World War II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkvwVnW3p7o&feature=related#normal)
(9/10) Battlefield II The Battle of the Crimea Ep8 World War II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhwIU4zvVCI&feature=related#normal)
(10/10) Battlefield II The Battle of the Crimea Ep8 World War II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UtwvkycoNI&feature=related#normal)
___________________________________________________
___________________________________________________
(1/10) Battlefield II Leningrad Ep6 World War II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-spaLjPpRtU&feature=related#normal)
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Psihopat: Please stop posting all this videos ::)
they arent helpful for this discussion and all of use know that u wont your nation in this mod so please stop political discussion and video-spaming.
Lord Rommel
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did any of the older members notice this is JUST like the Finish page. Most of the people who wanted Finland guess what were from Finland!!!! :P
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Krasniy Bor is mean the Red Fir (Forest).
His Majesty Michael I King of the Romanians was awarded the highest degree (Chief Commander) of the Legion of Merit by U.S. President Harry S. Truman. He was also decorated with the Soviet Order of Victory by Joseph Stalin "for the courageous act of the radical change in Romania's politics towards a break-up from Hitler's Germany and an alliance with the United Nations, at the moment when there was no clear sign yet of Germany's defeat". He did the right thing.
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at the moment when there was no clear sign yet of Germany's defeat"
23 of august 1944...lol.
gave back to Germany when you most need,will be better add romania to the soviet side.
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Romania has fought against bolshevism.
Romanian generals was awarded for their merit(even by Germany),but the king was awarded for the "courage" to betray mo***fu**er.
He has spit on the graves of all deaths from Eastern Front.
With his decision the king has saved lives of many romanians PREPARED TO DIE.One million of soldiers has been prepared for holly duty for fighting and dying for the homeland.The soldiers has been organized at border and awaiting the enemy approach.
If the romania not switching the side(followed by others),the result of the war was very uncertain.
In another territories romanians fight with courage,but at home they are very very dangerous,able to destroy enemies far larger and far superior equipped(history is full of example).In Estern Front was a problem with logistic in bringing AT cannons and other stuff,but this things are more easier at home and allot of equipment already was positioned for battle and orders from the generals was "if any russian walk on the romanian land my order is OPEN FIRE!!!".
Romanians has respected his promise(betray) killing or routing all germans from his territories,and giving a lesson to Hungary reaching at their capital,but no more than that.
There are allot of facts with citizens who was hidden the germans at their home saving their lives.
The king will never be forgotten for his betray,because romanians are trustful allies and that mo***fu***er has bring a undeserved shame to my country.
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chill out psichopath
you get a bit hyped up over this ;)
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PSIHOPAT your a danger for society! Majesty Michael I did good thing and that's not a betray when someone choose betwen evil and the side of allies, stop talking bullsh*t your talking about soldiers ready to die from Romania but if someone turns on you gun then you start for praying and the whole ready for die gone in the wind, you don't know whats war and what is when someone lost somebody, wars are good only as a video game and not for real, everybody get a gift witch's called life no body must die for country its only a propaganda how to waste a life for benefits of someone who is bad...
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You know nothing about me and my country and speak like all knowledge of humanity is in your head.Give me a breake with that kid.
Propaganda or not,but no one force me to spill all of my blood for defending my beloved country.I will do that without any hesitation.I have 31 years and even at 70 i will gatter a gun and i will shoot in all who dare to invade the ground sanctified with the blood of my ancestors.I am registered as commander of the artillery piece(howitzer) for time of war.
Also...
Good or bad is a relative term.
What is good for me can be very bad for you.
That mo***fuc***er king was bring an enormous disappointment and shame to all nation prepared for fight against russians.All families with soldiers killed by russians,having another family members for fighting side by side with they was under supreme humiliation.Think even about soldiers with their friends killed by russians,and then forced to fight close by they.Think about situations when two romanian soldiers father and son fight side by side against russians,than son is killed,and lather father is forced to fight close with the killer of his son.
I hate even his son for that and i don't consider him to be romanian.Majority of the romanians hate them most than any other leader.ROYAL PIECE OF SH*T!!!
I suggest you to think more and after that to speak smart-ass.
Lets stop this discussions here about that.
On topic.
Romanian strong infantry close combat are good enough for Ostheer.Romanians are not some kind of cowboys.
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Good or bad is a relative term.
What is good for me can be very bad for you.
Im talking about nazism, read about that first maybe your army feeling will change if not theres no help for you...
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holy c*** back on topic,
we are talking about non-german troops in the ostheer,
not about why Michael changed the sides or how bad wa ris (it is still nasty)
well i would like them as doctrinal units ( a doctrin dedicated to the "axis" countries like romania or hungary)
with interesting support options and soldiers that are as loyal as Psichopath ;D
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Good or bad is a relative term.
What is good for me can be very bad for you.
Im talking about nazism, read about that first maybe your army feeling will change if not theres no help for you...
Nazism was terrible, but war is never about good/evil or win/lose you must know it. Everyone commited crimes, but remember, the "winner" writes the history...
On topic, i'd like to see some foreign troops, specially from spain, italy and romania (i'm neither spanish, nor romanian or italian), but that is dev's call...
EDIT:
... with interesting support options and soldiers that are as loyal as Psichopath ;D
lol, you got a point :D.
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that's nice but Romania joined Nazi menace instead of fighting against it, had Poland choice to go with or against? Romania made choice they rather push with Germany, wheres that patriotism? wheres ready to die? France and Britain had choice too i think you know how they decided...
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Some suggestions for Ostheer.
Romanain infantry units :
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=86&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=86&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=193&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=193&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=101&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=101&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=106&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=106&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=105&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=105&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=418&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=418&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=135&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=135&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=137&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=137&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=479&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=479&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=175&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=175&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=201&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=201&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=178&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=178&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=210&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=210&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=246&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=246&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=265&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=265&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=303&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=303&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=377&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=377&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=440&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=440&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=463&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=463&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=475&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=475&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=481&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=481&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=494&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=494&area=31)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=493&area=31 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/foto/?id=493&area=31)
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Romania is the perfect example why WW2 cannot be interpreted without knowing WW1. In WW1 Romania teamed up with the winners (ANTANT) and took huge chunks away from neighboring countries without contributing to the victory itself. Got Transylvania from Hungary with 3 million Hungarians and only entered WW2 to be able to keep this territory because Hungary was about march thru alongside the Germans. Just twenty years earlier the Romanians were fighting against the Germans, Austrians and Hungarians then switched sides to be with the appearant winners of the new world war. Turning on its former allies the French and British - the very states that rewarded Romania with huge territories. Opportunisticly I might add. The German only needed a former enemy because of the oil fields of Romania and a buffer zone between The Reich and Bolsevism. Romania did not fight against Bolsevism, Romania entered the war to sit at the table after the war and enjoy rewards again for no significant contribution in the war effort itself. Again.
Then, when things went bad and Germany was losing the grip on the war Romania figured the winners are on the other side. So backstabbed its allie Germany. Are you counting? Switching side for the third time in only three decades. Fought WITH the Bolsevists because the Romanians always wanted to end the war on the winner's side for possible rewards. Then re-occupied Transylvania once more and took it from Hungary once again with all its Hungarian population just to mistreat those people for decades to come.
Are you serious about including such a country portrayed and giving it a role? In what? Backstabbing?
Psyhopat, stop your crap about Romania's heroism! The Romanian army did not have a single achivement during either wars other then trying to make friends with the winners all the time. No principals, no real goals, no belief, no sense of partnership and no backbone to stick to its allies ever. Just the greed to take something it couldnt alone.
I am sick and tired of this horseshit about the might of Romania. Face it, your country (not you) was a backstabbing traitor, swinging from left-to right-to left again- to right again just to end the war on the winners' side. That does not deserve portraying!
The Hungarians could not make a significant contribution but at least remained allies to the very bitter end and refused the Russian offer "to end the war now, backstab the Germans" while their country was all but destroyed by the very force offered to end their suffering.
I dont care which country is gonna be given any role in Ostheer, i dont care if its the Romanians but pls Psyhopat stop blabbing about how great a country and allie Romania was and how it must be portrayed because I dont think the 2d artist on the EF team has enough resources to remake the flag every time the Romanians decide to switch sides during the play.
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Romania is the perfect example why WW2 cannot be interpreted without knowing WW1. In WW1 Romania teamed up with the winners (ANTANT) and took huge chunks away from neighboring countries without contributing to the victory itself. Got Transylvania from Hungary with 3 million Hungarians and only entered WW2 to be able to keep this territory because Hungary was about march thru alongside the Germans. Just twenty years earlier the Romanians were fighting against the Germans, Austrians and Hungarians then switched sides to be with the appearant winners of the new world war. Turning on its former allies the French and British - the very states that rewarded Romania with huge territories. Opportunisticly I might add. The German only needed a former enemy because of the oil fields of Romania and a buffer zone between The Reich and Bolsevism. Romania did not fight against Bolsevism, Romania entered the war to sit at the table after the war and enjoy rewards again for no significant contribution in the war effort itself. Again.
Then, when things went bad and Germany was losing the grip on the war Romania figured the winners are on the other side. So backstabbed its allie Germany. Are you counting? Switching side for the third time in only three decades. Fought WITH the Bolsevists because the Romanians always wanted to end the war on the winner's side for possible rewards. Then re-occupied Transylvania once more and took it from Hungary once again with all its Hungarian population just to mistreat those people for decades to come.
Are you serious about including such a country portrayed and giving it a role? In what? Backstabbing?
Psyhopat, stop your crap about Romania's heroism! The Romanian army did not have a single achivement during either wars other then trying to make friends with the winners all the time. No principals, no real goals, no belief, no sense of partnership and no backbone to stick to its allies ever. Just the greed to take something it couldnt alone.
I am sick and tired of this horseshit about the might of Romania. Face it, your country (not you) was a backstabbing traitor, swinging from left-to right-to left again- to right again just to end the war on the winners' side. That does not deserve portraying!
The Hungarians could not make a significant contribution but at least remained allies to the very bitter end and refused the Russian offer "to end the war now, backstab the Germans" while their country was all but destroyed by the very force offered to end their suffering.
I dont care which country is gonna be given any role in Ostheer, i dont care if its the Romanians but pls Psyhopat stop blabbing about how great a country and allie Romania was and how it must be portrayed because I dont think the 2d artist on the EF team has enough resources to remake the flag every time the Romanians decide to switch sides during the play.
+1 thanks.
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Romania offered enormous help to Germany and is not his fault for defeat of Germany.Germany himself has chosen his allies(others).Idiotic strategies and courage of the chickens has bring the consequences(see how hungarians was encircled and destroyed and italians made pilaff).The Germans was confident in romanians bringing them where other was incapable,but the size of the front covered was too much for his strength in that area.In their arrogance german generals was ignored signal of alarm given by the romanian generals,and later the result has prove right what romanians was predicted.
Decorations from generals are from battle,and don't compare them with the king who obtained his medal for betray.
Romanian king was a fool in WW2 spearing Hungary.In that time was the moment to raze Hungary from the map of the world once and for all.All hungarians must say them thx and bring flowers at his grave.
Also disinformations are always the weapon used often by hungarians,and i confess => i hate them for that
Romania has switch the side at the end of the war(more than 80% of battle was against russia),and about that i told what was necessary to be told.
This mod is about war on the Eastern Front,and Romania was against Russia all the time there.
Clear ?
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http://www.worldwar2.ro/operatii/ (http://www.worldwar2.ro/operatii/)
http://axis101.bizland.com/RomanianAwards01.htm (http://axis101.bizland.com/RomanianAwards01.htm)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/decoratii/ (http://www.worldwar2.ro/decoratii/)
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You making your country what it isn't, even in the history Romania never was an expansive nation almost only defending their homeland so stop talking this bullsh*t even today is one of the poorest countries from Europe and the ww2 shows how Romania was scared from germany and turn on their side so no patriotism no honor as your saying so stop that! Polish soldiers was more brave they stand against enemy and fight him even if they know they cant win that's heroism and not what Romania did!
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Polish are famous for one fact happened in WW2 =>has send against german tank division their famous cavalry armed with old fashioned lance from WW1 and Short-bore rifle.They thought about german tanks to be made by cartoon,but unfortunately was not.Imagine the fun of the german tank crew when they saw this "brave attack".Also imagine the shock of the cavalry when they managed to hit tanks with the lance.Very funny i must say :)
Romania was able to destroy or rout all german forces from his territory without help from no one when he decided.Polish army was crushed in the blink of the eye. Romanians strike when they are sure about victory.If is necessary to be thrown in death 300.000 soldiers in one battle romanians do that without hesitation ONLY if the final result is victory on their side.
To be brave is different than to be fool.Many countries make mistakes in confusing this two different things.
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again stupid nonsense
Romania was able to destroy or rout all German forces from his territory without help from no one
Really? why it don't happends? that's lie if something like that happends Romania fall because they cant face the blitzkrieg France must surrender but they fight and their economy and army machinery was better then Romanian so what you want? your just saying your version wake up and start feeling things how they really are and not how you wanna see em...
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HEY!!!
Why all of you harass me ?
Only one thing is important for this mod : Romania has fought on the Germany side in Eastern Front ? The answer is yes.
So...
Let's stop other comentaries
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Why? because you post some things which aren't as you saying...okey lets stop commentaries like this but you stop saying like Romania was the most powerfull germany allied and Romania was so important and germany couldn't face them and all the sh*t like this...
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Search yourself clues and than make comments.
Is more wise.
Also you have something against adding some romanian units for Ostheer ?
I have nothing against other units from other countries,because this things will make this new faction more interesting and unique from the old ones.
Romanian soldiers
(http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/HAT8118a.jpg)
(http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/HAT8118b.jpg)
(http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/HAT8118c.jpg)
(http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/HAT8118d.jpg)
(http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/HAT8118e.jpg)
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no i don't have anything against adding new units, Axis units, non German units i wish Ostheer would be mix of German and axis troops and army machinery but that's upon the developers to choose and make so...
but that's something different of what we were talking about
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Suggestions for romanian units
Romanian Infantry
(http://www.hat.com/Prev/81xxRok.jpg)
(http://www.hat.com/Prev/81xxRol.jpg)
NCO with Berretta M38, officer with Baretta M34 and flamethrower
(http://www.hat.com/Prev/81xxRoa.jpg)
(http://www.hat.com/Prev/81xxRob.jpg)
Tank killer with grenade bundle and sniper
(http://www.hat.com/Prev/81xxRoc.jpg)
(http://www.hat.com/Prev/81xxRod.jpg)
LMG team: ZB30 with 2 man crew
(http://www.hat.com/Prev/81xxRoi.jpg)
(http://www.hat.com/Prev/81xxRoj.jpg)
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Stop!
Stop to discuss about "romanian topic" without the CoH Linking!
We all know your position Psihopat!
We know your "patriotism".
We know that Romania had soldiers and weapons ect..
And so everything about the "historical" part is said by all of you. When u want to discuss about the "history of the state romania" please use the "offtopic"board!
I will delete any new post about the romanian topic which isnt productive for the CoH-Ostheer topic!
And be sure: The dev-team will think about the Ostheer and
the team will decide about the Ostheer ;)
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This topic is for non german units for Ostheer
It is ?
In the last two post i just posted some ideas about some non german units.
What is wrong in that ?
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You kinda just flooded your ideas over all 6 pages?
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Polish are famous for one fact happened in WW2 =>has send against german tank division their famous cavalry armed with old fashioned lance from WW1 and Short-bore rifle.They thought about german tanks to be made by cartoon,but unfortunately was not.Imagine the fun of the german tank crew when they saw this "brave attack".Also imagine the shock of the cavalry when they managed to hit tanks with the lance.Very funny i must say :)
Romania was able to destroy or rout all german forces from his territory without help from no one when he decided.Polish army was crushed in the blink of the eye. Romanians strike when they are sure about victory.If is necessary to be thrown in death 300.000 soldiers in one battle romanians do that without hesitation ONLY if the final result is victory on their side.
To be brave is different than to be fool.Many countries make mistakes in confusing this two different things.
lol,please read books and search real information this charge never existed is pure propaganda,read osprey or antony beevor books,the polish cavalary use at guns,rifles,machine guns and mortar,the spears only use in parades.
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I think the Royal Hungarian 2nd Army should be given support role in Ostheer. They did not achieve much either in offensive or defensive action (on tactical level yes, but not much strategically) after the Curve of the Don but were often used on rear guard role and flank support by the retreiving Germans and often received German tank support for that.
It should be interesting.
Portraying the Hungarians infantry is almost just a 2d job because their M35 helmet and long coats looked almost identical to the Germans' and their gear (gas mask cylinde, mess kit, ammo pouch) also looked close enough that only a skinning job would make regular German infantry look like Hungarian infantry pretty well as they looked IRL.
Although they had interesting tanks of which the Zrínyi assault gun was particularly successful, the army received German Marder IIs, Panzer IVs, and StuGs. It is also realistic to assign German panzer support just like it often happened.
Rifles: Steyr-Mannlicher, smgs: M39 or M44, lmg: Madsen or ZB26 are simple models to make for the infantry. They can use German mortars.
My point is, that with minimum input the Hungarian Army could be portrayed and since they were historical allies to the Axis in previous wars also and remained allied with the Germans literally to the last day of the fightings (in fact about 40 thousand Hungarian troops crossed to border to Austria to keep fighting even after Hungary was forced to sign its surrender), I think it would be an asset and historically correct. Its hard to imagine the Eastern Front without the Hungarian Army, although ill-equipped and with shortcomings. Of the total number of casualties of the Eastern Front hundreds of thousands were Hungarians.
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You kinda just flooded your ideas over all 6 pages?
+1
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Romania is the perfect example why WW2 cannot be interpreted without knowing WW1. In WW1..
+1 thanks.
Wow... impressive... this turn the tide on my opinion about Romanian "intervention"...
I think the Royal Hungarian 2nd Army should be given support role in Ostheer...
+1
On topic, i'd like to see some foreign troops, specially from Spain, Italy and Hungary (i'm neither spanish, nor hungarian or italian), but that's dev's call...
Fixed, i think its correct to add (if its planned to) countries who fought along side Germany not traitors, after all, this expansion is somehow historic-related.
You kinda just flooded your ideas over all 6 pages?
+1
+1... i didn't realize that are 6 pages and counting :-X
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If we will have hungarian and romanian soldiers in Ostheer make them to shoot each other if stay close more than 1 minute....or if that is not possible....make them to kill each other if enter in weapon range.
This will make Ostheer more fun for play... original from other german factions...with new unique "ability"...and is nothing historically wrong in that.
Funny idea ::)
I'm not sure: should i delete this post or not?
Help me to find the productive side of this post.
PRODUCTIVE FOR COMPANY OF HEROES -
How does this "idea" should help the player
to win the game??
Lord Rommel
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All posts here represents the idea of including non-german units in ostheer... I say, why not make it simple and don't do that. The most important part of ostheer was Germany, face it boys without Germany there would be no ostheer. But without Hungary, Romania or Slovakia it would.
Anyway there is one simple reason - every faction in CoH has about 15-20 units (including doctrinal), if we start to think about including non-german units, there will be just not enough place to keep some important german units which for sure were 100x more present on EF than any non-german.
If you want to make difference, please try to think different game approach or play style to include in ostheer. Different game mechanism. And please put aside your national pride, this is just a game and should be fun to play, not to think about some patriotic crap.
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Answer to Lord Rommel
The idea is to force the player to have more care about deployment of his units.
Romanian units was separated from hungarians in Eastern Front...as information....
Non german units will be more rare(probably),and will need little more attention.Is nothing wrong in that,because every allied nation for germany was with their problems.If are used right can lead to a brilliant victory.If are used wrong can make catastrophic problems.
Non german unit suggestion
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=29 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=29)
vanatori de munte (mountain hunters)
Four man squad 3x ZB rifle(one is medic),1x ZB ZB light machine-gun
Highly mobile elite unit
Abilities :
-no retreat
-immune to suppression
-spread on the wide area
-sprint
Upgrades(able to transform unit purpose)
optional first upgrade
2x ZB rifle 1x ZB light machine-gun 1x 75mm mortar (used as assault or support unit)
able to deploy mortar with fast speed
able to spread formation
loose sprint ability
optional secondary upgrade
2x ZB rifle 1x ZB light machine-gun 1x 20 mm AA machine-gun
able to spread formation
automatically camouflage in cover
loose sprint ability
note : spreading formation is useful against grenade or mortar attack.If is hit,is hit one or two...not all
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http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=26 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=26)
Romanian paratroopers
highly trained parachutist unit
Four man squad
2x ZB 30 light machine-gun,2x 7.65 mm Mauser submachine-gun
Abilities
-binoculars
-reinforced by air
-retreat at the border of the near friendly territory(only if is in enemy territory)
Upgrade
1x Pignone 1937 flame-thrower replacing one ZB 30
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I think what Lord Rommel is saying is that there where Irish, Canadian, Australian, and other countries on the Allies Side BUT they really aren't represented in the game overall as a particular unit, doctrine or other (Exclusion being the RCA) so why should a particular Axis Country that was Major be represented? They all used namely the same equipment so there really isn't any variation. I know you are patriotic and stuff but lay off the dev's with your "Romania is best" rantings
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What is your problem ?
For what the F*** is this topic ?
What is his name ?
What is his purpose ?
I just suggest and have no power or will to force someone.
Is not my fault if others are not interested by this mod or this topic.
The decision is at developers,and your right is to shut up and leave me alone.
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Anyway there is one simple reason - every faction in CoH has about 15-20 units (including doctrinal), if we start to think about including non-german units, there will be just not enough place to keep some important german units which for sure were 100x more present on EF than any non-german.
the non german units can do the same work as german in the game...and also i think non german units will add more of the unique feeling for the ostheer
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Right.
Originality+historical accuracy+missions inspired from real facts
I see only advantages in that.
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Well. I write my note into psihopats post because i couldnt see any seriously answer for the topic - own troops which fight against each other on the battlefield - for my a absolutely senseless idea for CoH.
And at psihopats first text there wasnt any explication for this idea and so i had to think that it is a "ironic", aggressive answer because of the "hugh criticism" against "his nation".
Now with his real explication i had no more reason to delete the post because i see that there is an idea.
Okay. I dont like it but this is an idea and no aggressive, senseless answer as i had assumed.
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Thank you.
Another unit(i just suggest and developers choose what they like;or not)
romanian infantry
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=28 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=28)
5 man squad
have no special abilities,start weaker,but become stronger after each upgrade(two in number,and can be done one after another)
unit without upgrade is armed with 5x 7.92mm ZB rifle model 1924
First upgrade give better training and equip them with Orita SMG
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/static/orita.htm (http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/static/orita.htm)
Secondary upgrade give them 1x 7.92mm ZB light machine-gun model 1930,1x panzerfaust
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note : all weapons from all three units suggested was used by this units.my attempt was to recreate them most appropriate with the history,with the limitation of the game,balance,and uniqueness.if someone have another suggestions is free to tell them
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the non german units can do the same work as german in the game...and also i think non german units will add more of the unique feeling for the ostheer
well yes, so why bother including and thinking about any non-german units if it is in principe the same? I agree that the ostheer should be unique, but my point is that this will not be achieved by copying other faction and just renaming/remodeling units nor include personalized vocal messages. IMO the uniqueness should be achieved by different approach to game system (like were British, PE or Red Army).
exactly as "hgghg4" is saying:
...there where Irish, Canadian, Australian, and other countries on the Allies Side BUT they really aren't represented in the game overall as a particular unit, doctrine or other (Exclusion being the RCA) so why should a particular Axis Country that was Major be represented? ...
if non-german units should be present, I say do it only as a doctrinal unit with some special purpose - like some Saboteurs, or special Scout/Repair car... not by replacing some "classic" EF german unit (like PzIII or Sturmpioniere).
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Germany used non german units in eastern front on the large scale.Allied countries was a powerful weapon,and without their help Germany was crushed far more early.To don't accept that is a stupidity.
German army was better equipped and trained,but they was not some kind of gods.Germans has died like any other soldier after one bullet or starving,or freezing.Also they was fled or surrender in the same way,maybe little bit harder but they did that.The most important factor for initial success was superior german organization and generals.
For example romanian mountain hunters was used with several occasions in operations where german troops has failed.If some units will come from doctrine will be just 3 units,one from each doctrine.
New units will bring fresh air in Ostheer,but also is need an original concept for Ostheer.This are two different things.
Powerful unit as vinatorii de munte(mountain hunters) can come from doctrine,prasutistii romanani(romanian paratropers) can come off map after one special research in HQ,and romanian infantry from barrack .
Read for example actions of romanian generals and reasons for their awards/medals http://www.worldwar2.ro/generali/?article=101 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/generali/?article=101)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/generali/?article=102 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/generali/?article=102)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/generali/?article=90 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/generali/?article=90)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/generali/?article=95 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/generali/?article=95)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/generali/?article=256 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/generali/?article=256)
http://www.worldwar2.ro/generali/?article=97 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/generali/?article=97)
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People who believe hungarian or russian intoxication bush*t about Transilvania or Basarabia,i invite them to see who was the aggressor and who was stolen from who and stop insulting my country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Romania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Romania)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Transylvania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Transylvania)
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well yes, so why bother including and thinking about any non-german units if it is in principe the same? I agree that the ostheer should be unique, but my point is that this will not be achieved by copying other faction and just renaming/remodeling units nor include personalized vocal messages. IMO the uniqueness should be achieved by different approach to game system (like were British, PE or Red Army).
it includes new weapons which was used by other non German troops martars, Mg's, rifles, at guns there are many of them so it isn't the same just renaming/remodeling its more also these units can have some ability which makes better gameplay im not saying this is the only way how to get unique ostheer, but one of the part should be non German units...
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Example of powerful non german AT cannon produced in Romania at D.T.UDR-Resita,ASTRA-Brasov and CONCORDIA-Ploiesti
This cannon was more powerful than Pak 40.75mm.md1940 german and AA VIKERS.75mm.md.1936 britanic,but little less powerful than Zis-3.
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=300 (http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=300)
Axis non german troops can come after one upgrade is made in HQ,named call allied support.After this upgrade can be built one building who allow upgrade for low cost for every non axis unit.After making research for one unit,this unit can be recruied in barrack,or called from off-map through the land or air.
Another non german interesting unit can be "romanian fortification division".Is a expensive unit,but very capable with defensive purpose
This unit is formed by 4 man
They are able to build bunkers(who secure the territory) or trench and can call TACAM R-2 (maximum 2-3 per game).
http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/396939-2/05 (http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/396939-2/05)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TACAM_R-2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TACAM_R-2)
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/06/stuff_eng_arreborn_tacam.htm (http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/06/stuff_eng_arreborn_tacam.htm)
They are equipped with 1x ZB LMG, and 3x SMG Orita.Also they have AT grenades.
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For the love of God! The thread says "suggestions" not nagging! For how long can this go on? Just tell this guy he is gonna have his beloved Romanian units and lets get it over with! I mean I dont even know how we could play CoH until now without the ever-achiever, fantastic Romanian troops...God, I mean am I the only one here who is already totally sick of this? ???
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The team must be pleased because i put my activity here.
If this forum have no activity....i think you know what will happen(will die)
I just suggest.For that is this topic.Any people can do that.If they don't do is NOT my fault.
If i suggest 10 units and is selected just one or nothing...is another thing.
So...
Where is the problem ?
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Psihopat, you think that because you are 'active' on this board, we should owe you a right to spout nationalistic crap constantly? Activity for the sake of activity is a breach of the forum rules.
You have already preached how brilliant an idea Romanian units are (and insulted several people along the way). Your ideas have been noted by the developers and the community. You don't need to make any more posts on the topic or you will (once again) be breaching forum rules, which I am sure you have already read.
Treat this as a warning.
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The 'Non-German Troops' idea is a good one and I support it, but the prospect of getting several million complaints from realism fappers and nationalistic gits about how spoonbendingly idiotic we are for getting the colour wrong on the lapels isn't something I personally look forward to.
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Sorry but i gotta point it out.
Thank you EF team.
@ the topic, surely, non german support units would be great.
But we do need some orignial ideas for them. Not just any other
unit which simply takes a role of another one. This would make
everybody forget about the importance of these troops as you told us.
We do need some really nice ideas not some spam about something which already exist in another way.
We do need originality. Not just some romanian soldiers 'cause these are romanian soldiers. Forget about patriotism, this is a game also for non-romanian players.
& for god sake.
Do not ask me "whats your problem?" - now.
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...God, I mean am I the only one here who is already totally sick of this? ???
No mate, I'm tired of it too. Not because he is making propaganda to Romania (which is a beautiful country btw, I visited it several times) but for that spam he is abusing everyone here. These are no suggestions any more, it is literally spam.
@Psihopat: please realize that if you continue to do this, you will achieve exact opposite what you are trying to achieve. You will achieve only that everyone will be sick of Romania units and noone then will bother to think about your suggestions.
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I think Romanians offer a great possibility for a unique unit in game. I've even worked out a great special rule for them :P
They'll be tough 7 man squads, KC style.
BUT, and here is the special rule, if the squad drops to 3 men or less...then they switch sides! Just like they did in the war!...so we get historical accuracy and a unique unit!
It'll be awesome dudes! ;D
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for historical accuracy: you can make Romanians the third faction controlling large gas assets in the middle of the map. and 10 sec in the beginning to decide which side they join).
...
besides, participating in combat action on the German side is a thorny question for some nations. in Ukraine, for example, due to some recent Acts it's a dilemma the society is being divided with - so... "it's political", guys)
however, personally, I think the more nations presented in CoH, the better. both history-wise and gameplay-wise. Have tried Russians+Brits in 3x3...mmmm! unbeatable mix)
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@Zerstörer
The idea with that unit is interesting,but you miss one point : romanians switched the side at the end of the war(almost) and that is not in the Eastern Front.Few romanians surrender in combat.See reports from the battles in Eastern Front => less than 3000 was taken prisoners,witch is a very low number compared with forces deployed.
Also search and find true facts from Eastern Front where generals has get order to hold the line with all cost,and they done that fighting until was completely destroyed.When the russians has come at they and proposed them to surrender in the situation when romanians had absolutely no chance for victory,they refused,and has been killed to the last.No one has been taken as prisoner,because even the last romanian soldier has continued to shoot in the russians.Anyway,this thing has been a fact with a major importance,because russians was delayed with precious time from their plans.
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another ideas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_SS_Cavalry_Division_Florian_Geyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_SS_Cavalry_Division_Florian_Geyer)
this unit was formed for Germanic-speaking Romanian Hungarian Serbian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/28th_SS_Volunteer_Grenadier_Division_Wallonien (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/28th_SS_Volunteer_Grenadier_Division_Wallonien)
is corious this divison the 3 company was formed exclusively by Spanish but in 1945 were removed to form the einzatgruppen ezquerra in Berlin.
Also curious is the flag of this DIVISION is the old flag of the Spanish empire ???
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@Zerstörer
The idea with that unit is interesting,but you miss one point : romanians switched the side at the end of the war(almost) and that is not in the Eastern Front.Few romanians surrender in combat.See reports from the battles in Eastern Front => less than 3000 was taken prisoners,witch is a very low number compared with forces deployed.
but why are you joking about somebody who is joking?
Or didnt you see him to be joking?
I mean, What the hell is that.
These guys are joking with you and you dont see that because your patriotism makes you totally blind.
Also, soldiers which are fighting until they are dead even if they dont have any chance, arent good soldiers, the just needed to do so, or they were stupid. Please NO PATRIOTISM in this forum anymore.
@ topic.
the problem about these SS divisonen is,
that the name SS wont be used in the mod/game.
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Sigh...my sarcasm is lost on some peeps...awww well :'(
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2127/relic00717.jpg) (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/relic00717.jpg/)
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@Venoxxis
No.
I am not blind or fool.
I just try to ignore bad things from here and present facts how they was.
Harass from others are tolerated by moderators.
They himself who make rules broke them insults people or other things.
I was upset in the past reacting aggressive and i was warned for that.
Now....i just want to discuss where it seems to be no one interested to listen.
This forum is like USSR =>they give a SH*T about what people say or think
Rules are just for others
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...
This forum is like USSR =>they give a SH*T about what people say or think
Rules are just for others
The problem is that this forum had much more active user than just your person. A forum need rules because a lot of people arent able to discuss topics in a "human" way ( that means friendly, calm, respect for other meanings and so on ) and the admins/ the team respect its own rules but
they had the duty to guarantee the discussion culture of a forum and so please Psihopat stop with your "nationalism flaming".
Please respect that the team had to find a balance for everyone here.
Please respect that this forum is a offering for the community.
Please respect that there is a limit of tolerance and comprehension!
So! Back to topic and when it is possible not again the "romanian theme" because i think the limit of tolerance is reached!
Lord Rommel
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Ok, I'll try and make this simple for you as once again you're getting out of line.
1)We've tolerated so far that you've disrupted multiple threads and despite multiple people complaining about your bad attitude, we've decided tou give you a chance and a friendly warning...stop being a pain! You can contribute without spamming,flaming and repeating the same old story. You'd have been kicked off from relic Forums way back if you showed that attitude there. So seriously...get a grip dude.
2)We know more history than you'll ever learn in your life so please stop with the 'lessons'. Reading 3 posts online and posting 3 fact you like from what you've read hardly makes you an expert to try an teach us facts.
3)Saying the Romanians switch sides when the shit hit the fan, tide turned and the Russians were at their doorstep is a fact. Like it or not, there are only 2 countries who 'switched ideals' when things didn't go their way....
The bravery stories are all good and well no need to doubt them but guess what...every country in WW2 has similar ones...its just the shit that happens in war.No one doubts soldiers from all sides fought bravely
Some stick to their ideals to the end, others flip sides...
4) When discussing, you listen to others and don't go off ranting, flaming and bitching cause ...maybe it hasn't occured to you buddy...but you may actually be wrong about some things...and just maybe you should listen to what others have to say
So, please chose carefully any following posts you make
Cheers
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i would love hungarian scouts
-they know the area, so they can cloak,
-4 or 3 man squad, not too strong (wield K98)
-get a powerfull first strike bonus when surprising the enemy
-and are not too expensive. But obviously they would need a limit or a harsh upkeep to prevent spamming.
like it has been stated before it wouldnt make sense to just make foreign soldiers to replace the german landserzug (awesome idea by rommel) so the support troops need a unique role (like sneaking up to heavy mortars and fucking them up... 8))
Also i like the Idea of having a weak, doctrinal, early game tank that hunts infantry (like british tetrach)
ok thank you guys for reading...
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by early inf tank you must mean the panzer II? FTW?!
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I love the idea. Foreign troops I think should only have support role as the Germans carried the Eastern Front on their backs. I disagree with the Mauser though. I made Steyr-Mannlicher and the M44 smg for Hungarians. They did not have Mausers.
As for the Panzer II: I dont hate to disagree. By 1942 the Panzer II was all but obsolete. Heck it was obsolete by 1940! We have Luchs and I think Panzer III is the most mild we should go.
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obselecnece is not the point each side used any tank (or any peice of equipment) until late into the war when the number of modern models made wasting the resources on the old ones just dumb.
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thx for good feedback
well i am not an expert on the matter of infantry arms of WW2
so i take your word for the mannlichers(sounds great btw)
i dont mean panzerII i meant those romanian or tschech tankettes, them small ones who were eaten by soviet steel but who could stand their turf VS snipers and conscript spam.
i just think the support troops should have really useful abilities
like cloaking, ambush(like PE fallschirmjaegers), or digging trenches, finding mines..
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Personally, I suggest using Spaniards and Finns as elite units, and Romanians as others as cannon fodder (weak but plentiful units).
For Finns, think Falls with Assault Nades to ambush the enemy. Maybe they could have an upgrade to get MP40s, but it would have to be expensive, or a marksman upgrade that could work either as the Recon Tommies´, or the G43 Pgrens.
Spaniards could be Grenadiers with the ability to build trenches, and use panzerfausts. A good, average unit with defensive capabilities. A second unit could be some kind of officer or command squad able to call down light artillery (light mortars, nothing anywhere near as powerful as the Wehr or Russian officers´) and use fire-up on the unit itself only, and also use grenades. Basically, think a unit that when its accompanying infantry is pinned down, races ahead to nade the enemy HMG.
Romanians could have both infantry and a light AT gun, maybe a light HMG too. If Russians are the kings of offensive spam, Romanians could be the kings of defensive spam, relying on having a lot of infantry around, and recrewing their support weapons multiple times.
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Well the Finns would more likely have their version of the PPsH (that the Russians stole BTW) and a lot of captured equipment. One thing that would be cool is the Finn Lahti 20mm AT rifle, which is mounted on a sled like bit and would have long range and is semiautomatic and is often used with a scope (rape face sniper?). I fired one on a range about a year ago at an exhibition (freaking 35 bucks for a shot, rare ammo either custom or reloaded) and is the loudest and most awesome display of firepower I have seen firsthand.
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I was wondering if Ostheer will have Axis Non-German Troops(aka Finns, Romanians, Hungarians, Spaniards, Italians) it could be made with a single call in(something like "calling reinforcements"), creating a method who randomly gives you one 4-man squad of those countries.
Maybe someone just don't like it because it will be multiple instances for a single purpose, or represent a lot of work for dev's. It's just brainstorming.
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@ blackbishop
I kind of like that idea. Interesting. Maybe not the Finnish or Spanish, but for the other 3 it looks good.
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Hi, long time lurker on the forums but never bothered to register until right now to add my 2cents to this:
While it would be nice to see some non-German Axis military support, it isn't exactly necessary but would be good as additional "flavor" to the game. Come to think of it, you don't hear the Canadians complaining about them being underrepresented without custom skins or units even though it can be said that the Royal Artillery and some of the Royal Engineers doctrine is portraying Canadians forces in WWII
I honestly don't mind having Romanians, Hungarians, Italians, Spanish...etc. But I don't think the introduction of the Finns would be in the spirit of the Ostheer. They weren't involved to the same degree as the other Axis nations on that particular front.
The Finns were mostly fighting a war of homeland defense, not as an aggressor and didn't really connect with the rest of Operation Barbarossa.
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ost_front_soldat I respect your idea but the Finns and the Spanish were better soldiers because they were war veterans and soldiers experts.
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What Aqua said.
Speaking as a Canadian, I'm fine playing as the Americans or the British, it is only when game developers decide to place units from a different country and have them capture our objectives. As an example, Caen was heavily fought over by the British, they did the main work. We bombed it to hell and then took it. However, in nearly every game that has Caen you play as the British and they have the British as taking the final bit. Atleast in COH they had our troops fighting over the airfield. Off-topic though.
In terms of the Finns, while I wouldn't mind seeing them, it is true that they generally kept to their own borders having to deal with the onslaught of the Russians or kicking the Germans out, depending on the date. Perhaps a little bit for the future is to add the Finns. But not as a part of the Ostheer. At least, not like this.
Concerning the others, I think it is really realistic to add them. One thing that might be possible is adding in the Ukrainians. Under Stalin they had been starved etc, and so when the Germans steamrolled in they were welcomed with flowers, women, and cheering all around until the "Final Solution" began to take place. They could easily be incorporated into some kind of elite (SS, although this might be upsetting for some) or normal troop. Same can be done for the Polish. Some did welcome the Germans and joined up with the SS. This happened wherever the Germans conquered. Just a thought.
The main thing that needs to be looked at is who would be best suited to stopping the Soviet inf-spam or the Armor-spam? I'm not talking of one faction for both, but every bonus unit has to have some use. Right now the main issue is that the Russians can quickly build up a large force of crap units and swarm you, or they can build up a good sized force for a bit more time and steamroll you. Counters from all of the Non-German troops will be required. Perhaps one troop comes with an mg squad that causes major suppression? Perhaps another has a bonus to laying traps, such as AP mines and AT mines (Look at the Combat Engineers in BotB mod). Heck, the ability to build trenches is pretty useful as from what I can tell most people don't put flamethrowers on their Sturmovie. Just thoughts on the process of unit creation for the new nations.
If a nation used its own weapons, then that should be shown, assuming the modders are willing. The rifles can probably be fixed with little work, and sub-machine guns generally follow a similar way of looks. The MGs I should think won't be much work. As with the SMG, they are generally look-a-likes. Basically, a bit of research into the various weapons produced by any of the countries people mentioned is required.
If anybody knows of some kind of tactic or field upgrade that was common to a group of soldiers, say it, as it would be useful I should think. An example is the Sherman. The Americans made several versions, yes, but the British and us Canadians made a heckuva lot as well. Firefly, DD-Sherman, Brown Bear (I think, I know it had Bear in the name) various mine flails, etc. Say the Bulgarians had a tendency to add, I don't know, a couple extra machineguns to their tanks. Add that in. Place the MGs facing all over the tank, perhaps with the ability to carry a squad and man the MGs.
My thoughts on this, and yes, Non-Germans should be in the Ostheer as they did take part throughout. I don't know how many Russians were used to fight other Russians though.
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I have to admit that I kind of disagree with idea that Ostheer should have foreign troops. I mean it kind of not CoH style.
But hey, they should be unique isn't it? So, like it or not, I think Ostheer could have a foreign troops.
It just a suggestion, how if the troops are available through reward system? I believe it will make people who love to see Ostheer with pure German and those with foreign troop can actually get what they wish.
I apologize if it ever discussed before. Well, it has been a while since my last time see this forum.
Thanks
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Saavedra I've been gone for a long time and I find it amazing that your STILL pushing your little Spaniards :P. Ok someone give me the static.
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Saavedra I've been gone for a long time and I find it amazing that your STILL pushing your little Spaniards :P. Ok someone give me the static.
those little Spanish, conquered half the world and created a global empire and were the first to defeat Napoleon's army in the open field, the little Spanish were first getting into paris and never retreated in the est front, so a little respect please.
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We don't need nationalistic fighting on here thanks. You're both entitled to your point of view, if someone wants to push their idea all the time then that is fine, but name calling is not welcome on either side. Just keep it friendly.
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Adding the troops as a reward is probably best. Perhaps a doctrine is mostly call in units from the other countries, or by selecting say ``Blue Division for 3 CPs`` you now get to produce a limited number of Spanish squads. Could work quite well, I think.
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I close this thread for 24h!
Hope that is enought time for the guys to calm down.
So tomorrow i will reopen here - promised!
Lord Rommel
Why i close?
Well; think this will escalate like the last time with the Romanians and i hope that this little break will calm down our "patriots" ;)
-> OPEN!
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Uau when I opend this thread I never supposed that this idea could generate a lot of discussion as the seen in the posts and more than a thousand views. I suppose that the idea is almost interesting.
Then I pourpose to end with the nationality discussion use a skill named "International Fascist Volunteers" that calls in a special elite infantery unit. No nationality in there and as really was with all nationalities wearing a german like uniform. This International Fascist Volunteers unit could have a lot of special skills as camo + anitank high skill and could be unsupressable, and upgradeable with a marksman. They can be a 6 - 7 man. Don't forget that those men are not soldiers, they are fascist fanatics and are not going to die in the battle as soldiers. They WANT to die in the battle as heroes for honor and their fascist concept of the world.
Then they can be a very expensive unit and because of that a very high elite unit. Almost like the Ritterkreutz troops vs infantery and including 2 panzershrecks and free grenades.
Excuse my bad english today. What you think about?
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shalar,interesting idea +1
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No!!!
This idea is very bad.
This is just another german unit with german clothes and weapons,but having another name =>BIG DEAL!!!.
Every allied country for germany had their UNIQUE equipment.This things bring color and variety.Not just names.
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Psihopat I share with you the enthusiasm about giving a whole faction to each nationality and I will be glad if we can do it possible but consider that those brave men who work FOR FREE like 28 hours each day in front of a PC programming a FREE expansion pack for our CoH. They can't do like 8 or 10 units to appear randomly in the map that's a lot of work for a small result at the end. And as obviouse is not possible to programm a full new faction for each country.
Then considering that they BRING US THE OPPORTUNITY to contribute with our ideas, make them a gift and be a bit more tolerant with new and dinamic ideas that can increase the game experience in a scale that is at the same time affordable to programm and work with by the developers. Developers that I must say again work for you, for me, and for all us who love CoH FOR FREE !!!!
So please make your contribution thinking about the work amount under your proposal too.
Thanks for reading again and Psihopat I will enjoy one day with a CoH with Italians, Romanians, Hungarians, Spanish and so on, but let them time and go step by step.
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Shalar, I am with you and I think a great idea,I would like to see the blue division in the mod,but still was a German unit more, with the same clothes and weapons So with this I am satisfied ;D.
gretings fron spain.
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No!!!
This idea is very bad.
This is just another german unit with german clothes and weapons,but having another name =>BIG DEAL!!!.
Every allied country for germany had their UNIQUE equipment.This things bring color and variety.Not just names.
http://worldwartwozone.com/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_000120.jpg (http://worldwartwozone.com/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_000120.jpg)
http://www.ecomodelismo.com/ECO_imgArt/NIMI/NIMI-N017.jpg (http://www.ecomodelismo.com/ECO_imgArt/NIMI/NIMI-N017.jpg)
http://www.waffen-ss.no/quist.jpg (http://www.waffen-ss.no/quist.jpg)
three different soldiers in the blue division of Spain (which you have shown a liking to in the mod) all wearing basically the same uniform as the rest of the German soldiers. So you are saying that we shouldn't add the blue division then? Rather contradicting to your self don't you think?
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the Spanish used the German field uniform and the third picture is of the ss no spanish blue divison,sure you think that uniforms are black and white :P
I personally do not care that add to the Spanish in the mod,I prefer to add italians, that will be easier to defeat the Germans :P.
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ah my bad
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/related/axis_allies/buledivision_files/munoz_grandes.jpg (http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/related/axis_allies/buledivision_files/munoz_grandes.jpg)
this IS in fact men in the Blue Division though. Look rather much like German soldiers
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What is it with Ford and trying to make certain no Spaniards get into this mod? He's everywhere!!!!
Anyways, I think the easiest thing to do would be Shalar's idea. The thing that would make the most happy on the other hand is units with their country's name, weapons, etc. Personally, I'd like to see them with slightly different skins (To represent the fact that people will often try to differ themselves from others. Dunno how realistic or not) and a mix of rifles. Some Mausers and some rifles from their mother country.
By the "Want to die on the battlefield..." bit you mean that they don't get wounded? I think that would be a nice idea, espeacially since that was how it was with the SS and other fanatical-to-the-death type divisions. An example of the bravery/stupidity of them when faced with danger is a Canadian sergeant throwing 3 knives at a captured SS who doesn't flinch. Fanatical troops refusing water when they are wounded, spitting in medic's faces, etc etc. More willing to die than get help from the enemy.
Anyways, so as not cause a rift of some sorts, this would be a good idea. Perhaps in the future when the devs don't have as much on their plate they could include the units from specific countries, but for now this would be good.
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i think spitting in medics faces is a bloody myth
I have never been wounded on a battlefield(lucklily i have never been on one yet...) but I have suffered injuries during various sport events (broke my leg at football and my hand (twice) and I have cut myself a few times (by accident, i aint no Emo ;D) and the first thing you think of when you see your own blood spilled is to get it patched up and to get some painkillers. I think people will always accept help if they are seriously injured.
But gameplay wise i would think that the costly Ostheer Elite Units make a medi-station very important. It also adds realism because Germans needed every man they could patch up. Many german soldiers have been wounded 2-3 times during the war...
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"What is it with Ford and trying to make certain no Spaniards get into this mod? He's everywhere!!!!"
dude whats wrong with giving facts Daiwiz?
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Hey guys ;) Be friendly and "neutral".
Watch your language - you dont have to attack each other.
With the spanish: Well. This is one of the
"axis" nations. My problem by all of this
nations it that they dont represent the hole
front during the hole time. When the Ostheer
will use such axis units then i think just as call-in
units and then they need special abilities!
Perhaps you think about that.
For example i like the idea out of the other thread
that there are some soldiers for "save resources"
because most of the axis allies were used as
partisan hunters behind the frontline and so in CoH
the mainpoint behind the frontline are resource points ^^
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Uau when I opend this thread I never supposed that this idea could generate a lot of discussion as the seen in the posts and more than a thousand views. I suppose that the idea is almost interesting.
Then I pourpose to end with the nationality discussion use a skill named "International Fascist Volunteers" that calls in a special elite infantery unit. No nationality in there and as really was with all nationalities wearing a german like uniform. This International Fascist Volunteers unit could have a lot of special skills as camo + anitank high skill and could be unsupressable, and upgradeable with a marksman. They can be a 6 - 7 man. Don't forget that those men are not soldiers, they are fascist fanatics and are not going to die in the battle as soldiers. They WANT to die in the battle as heroes for honor and their fascist concept of the world.
Then they can be a very expensive unit and because of that a very high elite unit. Almost like the Ritterkreutz troops vs infantery and including 2 panzershrecks and free grenades.
Excuse my bad english today. What you think about?
"They can be a 6 - 7 man" - becouse there was so little of them compared to the real armies?... And Elite axis 6 man squads would be OP.
"They WANT to die in the battle"-yeah right. Fascism is not a religion.
Ostheer dosnt need another elite infantry becouse there are so many elite german units to choose from. As Lord Rommel said "axis allies were used as partisan hunters behind the frontline" - becouse their equipment was inferior to German.
But theres a need for some basic infantry that can fight any infantry up to US riflemen. My idea?
Swapped Italian/Romanian/Hungarian Tier I.
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2876.0 (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2876.0)
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hi guys, i have just registered, and this is my first post.
my english language is not perfect, but i will try to share my some ideas.
In my opinion, the best way would be creating a separate doctrine of ostheer allies.my mini concept of ostheer: three doctrines - collaborant, polizei(or turtle tactic or whatever), ostheer allies(axis power). the first doctrine would be some kind of infantry - call in foreign SS legion, force locals to bring more resourses and etc. axis power would be mixed, divided in two parts, like italian and romania or foreign infantry and foreign heavy armor...and maybe event the whole ostheer could be based on that, when you start a game, first you must to choose which doctrine you will have, and for example. you choose collaborant, and you can build some collaborant forces, or if you choose axis power, then you have completely different units and structures.
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that's kinda neat
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Yea.
I like very much this idea with three different doctrine giving three different armies.In this way all people will be pleased having possibility to use what they want => just german units or having mixed army with german and non-german units.
This is far the best idea from all what i saw here.This give possibility to make Ostheer truly unique from other two german factions because no other faction can have three very different armies.
Excellent.
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would they be like side parts? like its not about the side country but they are there? like
one will have Romania
one will have Italy
and one will have Finland
no emphasis on them but they are just in different sections
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No.
The idea is to keep one doctrine just with german units,and other with mixed army.
First doctrine will be just with german units(preferably with the smallest number of soldiers per team),but to be the best from all Ostheer doctrines or other factions without any doubt.
Second with few elite german units plus non-german units from two countries> Italy and Romania
Third with few elite german units plus another non-german units from Hungary and Finland or Spain...or...free to choose...
In this combination is enough room for recruiting basic and elite units(infantry and tanks),or special from doctrine(with command points),and...eventually some through research with off map call in.
This idea need ALLOT of work but result will be astonishing and no other idea can make Ostheer truly UNIQUE from other factions how this idea is able to do.This is no just a superficial change at the surface,but is an entire concept who need allot of deep thinking.
I think is worth.
The problem is what developers want => minor or MAJOR change.
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"What is it with Ford and trying to make certain no Spaniards get into this mod? He's everywhere!!!!"
dude whats wrong with giving facts Daiwiz?
Nothing wrong, it's just you keep showing up and saying Spaniards shouldn't be in. It honestly seems like you have something against them.
On the idea: Ye, that's similar to BotB and it works quite well. You start off with basic units, but by choosing certain doctrines you get certain units. Basically your units rely heavily upon what doctrine you choose. Far as I can tell it works quite well and is quite fun. It's actually gotten me to use the Armor company ;)
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Psihopat, got my idea. and his right, there would be a lot of work, to create all that different units and balance, but the result super-duper amazing.just image one sub faction with 3 sub factions.
Now we just can image and develop these doctrines.
As I suggested: Axis Power, Collaborant and not polizei,but Last Chance doctrine.
As I imagine, the Axis Power, divided into Italian forces and Romanian. By choosing this doctrine you are unable to recruit elite and medium infantry and tanks of ostheer, only basic infantry and light vechicle is possible. Italian side follows:
2 points and allow to recruit in your barrack blackshirts(also opens an upgrade for them, like anti-tank weapon or machine gun and etc., like you upgrade and then blackshirts comes with anti-tank,then sub-machine gun.)
2 points and possible to call-in some armor, don't know which, because not an expert.
4 ponts and it's possible to produce Italian armor and elite troops.
same goes for romania, not an expert about romanian military.
Collaborant( as we all know, among collaborants, big amount supported/knew extermination of jews and created a death squads, so is it moral, to call in einsatzgruppen or some king of death squads..)
so collaborant divided into terror tactic and nationalist movements(also some one will be insulted, maybe then renaname into - local nazi movements(?))
this doctrine needs a lot of work, but the main points will be like activate gestapo police(for some time more resources), then obliged locals(more resoursces) and also possibility for call-in and recuiting collaborant forces, like elite foreing SS legion.
And last doctrine - Last chance.
similar to wermacht terror doctrine, and if other doctrines was specialised in call-in or recruiting, Last chance doctrine based on call-in super unit(like maus or whatever super-heavy tank), kriegsmarine(maybe) and effects. like nuclear bomb project?!nazi ufo plates?!(just kiding). enough of heavy artillery, I know, it's always fun, to cover all territory with holes, but i hope ostheer wouldn't have heavy artillery.or maybe, one side of doctrine, for you possible, to call badass maus, and on the other side badass artillery, not gustav, but like Karl-Gerät or Sturmtiger or 42 cm Gamma Mörser or Adolf Gun or even maybe a possibility to build one massine cannon.
oh another idea...you know these medical stations? maybe ostheer possible to build war polygons, which, not just heal your forces, but also brings enemy wounded infantry and create a collaborant batallion?or "send" then to forced labour"(moral question)
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"Nothing wrong, it's just you keep showing up and saying Spaniards shouldn't be in. It honestly seems like you have something against them."
I just find them to be silly and Psihopat that makes a lot of sense
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Spain should not be considered they were a neutral country and making the ostheer all foreign based would be silly, it should be one doctrine if at all.
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Why not make the Ostheer's support units (at guns, mgs, mortars etc.) non-greman.
This makes germany the main attacker, while other nations "helpes" them (like I have seen a lot of people saying).
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Because is just one mortar,one Mg and one AT gun.What can be made?To make itallians with Mg,romanians with mortar,hungarians with AT gun...etc...and that is all support from allies in eastern front?There are many countries with big variety of infantry,vehicle,support,tanks...
Also imagine missions for Osther with this concept.
This idea provide unlimited possibilities...but is need allot of work.
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Spain should not be considered they were a neutral country
That sent a division to fight for Germany in Russia. Neutrality is a bit of a stretched term in this case.
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Spain should not be considered they were a neutral country and making the ostheer all foreign based would be silly, it should be one doctrine if at all.
you have reason, Spain can not be included in the mod that was neutral, but we're not talking about Spain, speaking of the 250th Infantry-Division of the Wehrmacht (Blue Division), some people say they can not be included because no were many but the m26 pershing vCOH appears only 20 tanks in europe in 1945 and appears in the game, somebody said that the blue DIVISION could not appear in the mod that was repatriated in 1943 but in the mod appears this tank kv2 was discontinued, in 1941.
I will use corsix mod studio, and am in process of creating a unit with the skins from blue division when finished I would like to donate to the mod team if they wanted to include it in the mod.
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Spain should not be considered they were a neutral country and making the ostheer all foreign based would be silly, it should be one doctrine if at all.
you have reason, Spain can not be included in the mod that was neutral, but we're not talking about Spain, speaking of the 250th Infantry-Division of the Wehrmacht (Blue Division), some people say they can not be included because no were many but the m26 pershing vCOH appears only 20 tanks in europe in 1945 and appears in the game, somebody said that the blue DIVISION could not appear in the mod that was repatriated in 1943 but in the mod appears this tank kv2 was discontinued, in 1941.
I will use corsix mod studio, and am in process of creating a unit with the skins from blue division when finished I would like to donate to the mod team if they wanted to include it in the mod.
You are right about that.
But, have you seen any namly mentioned division in the game yet?
Also, others wanted specific foreign SS units, but the name SS will never be mentioned in the relic CoH or the mod itself, as Warty said once.
SS will be incorporated in the same way as Wehrmacht and Panzer Elite. They won't specifically be called 'SS', but certain units' uniforms and loadout will indicate this.
Also, a full "foreign" doctrine is not doable since they didnt have heavy weapons. Calling in masses instead in one ability would just suck.
But maybe there is a good idea out there, but .. yet im against a doctrinal use.
maybe you got a solution!
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Spain should not be considered they were a neutral country
That sent a division to fight for Germany in Russia. Neutrality is a bit of a stretched term in this case.
Division......tell me how many Armies Romania and Italy had?
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i think the numbers aren't so important, something else is if they send 1000 troops but if at least division that's ok i think
it was told many times that this game isn't historically accurate at 100% and many things are made just for better gameplay like pershing or ostwind the numbers aren't so important...
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@ford_perfect
No other country can match contribution of romanian forces in eastern front as allied of germany.
Romania in WW2 (wikipedia)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_during_World_War_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_during_World_War_II)
The war on the Eastern Front
"On June 22, 1941, Germany launched Operation Barbarossa, attacking the Soviet Union on a wide front. Romania joined in the offensive, with Romanian troops crossing the River Prut. After recovering Bessarabia and Bukovina (Operation München), Romanian units fought side by side with the Germans onward to Odessa, Sevastopol, and Stalingrad. The Romanian contribution of troops was enormous. The total number of troops involved in the Romanian Third Army and the Romanian Fourth Army was second only to Nazi Germany itself. The Romanian Army had a total of 686,258 men under arms in the summer of 1941 and a total of 1,224,691 men in the summer of 1944"
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thank you PSIHOPAT that's nice of you. So it would make sense to add Romania then yes? Italy I could see as well. Spain...I could see one unit with a certain number of troops allowed
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Spain...I could see one unit with a certain number of troops allowed
I was uner the impresion that the main idea of the spaniard defenders was a doctrine special squad that you can have more than one in the battlefield unless killed, so nothing really "war winning" but still helpfull
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yea basically like you can get 3 squads if they die, they die can't get em back
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@Psihopat
Thx for the new info.
I didnt know there were romanian troops on the eastern front...
Italians, sure thing, we all know the spanish blue division, but ROMANIANS???
I would have never guessed that.
But being serious, I dont think we should discuss about if foreigners will be in the Ostheer(cause I am damn sure they will be), we should discuss about their abilities.. ???
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and did you know that the Slovakia troops was there too? ;D
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But, have you seen any namly mentioned division in the game yet?
Also, others wanted specific foreign SS units, but the name SS will never be mentioned in the relic CoH or the mod itself, as Warty said once.
Have you actually PLAYED THE GAME YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?
Just off the top of my head: 101st Division, 12th SS Division "Hitlerjugend", 1st British Airborne Division, 1st Polish Parachute Battalion, Kampfgruppe Lehr. All of them named in the game, some of them (if not all) even have the unit patches on their shoulders, and all of them are real (with the exception of the 3rd Canadian Battalion you play as in the British campaign, Boudica, which I believe might be fictional).
And I haven´t even bothered going through the whole game to rewatch the briefings and see what units are mentioned there (I must be missing at least two more names from every faction).
As for the Blue Division troops suggested for the mod, the idea was having them as special call-ins Storm Trooper style. No "limited number" bullshit that is saved for actually super-special units like super heavy tanks, not for "units I don´t want to see in the game because I´m a wanker and my word has to go no matter what".
@ford_perfect
No other country can match contribution of romanian forces in eastern front as allied of germany.
PSIHOPAT, we already know Romanian troops contributed a lot to the German effort and we all acknowledge that if any foreign troops were to be represented in the mod, it should be Romanians.
Can you PLEASE shut your mouth already and quit spamming? We KNOW the Romanians fought together with the Axis, we BELIEVE they should be represented in the mod first and foremost. Can you now SHUT UP ALREADY ABOUT THAT SHIT? Honestly, it´s a f*cking wonder you haven´t been banned yet for being so goddamn obnoxious. I swear to God if you don´t quit spamming your nationalistic bullshit, I´m going to start a petition to get you banned on the grounds of you being a rabidly nationalistic troll that is making every single discussion about foreign troops into a pile of crap. I can understand being patriotic, but you are just dragging your country through the mud, making us HATE YOU AND HATE IT BY EXTENSION.
I won´t be surprised if the devs decide to include every country EXCEPT Romanians just to spite you.
WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE, TOO!
Team will talk about this here!
Lord Rommel
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@Saavedra
I stopped arguing about Romania some time ago.
Also...
Some people did not know about Romania in eastern front,and I just INFORMED few people about that.
***DELETE BY ADMIN***
STOP!
- Okay! That is enough! For both!
The team will see what we will make with you!
LORD ROMMEL
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this is why I don't really like you....
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you earned your name psichopath???
your Pic is pretty fitting too. ;)
lets just settle down
and get back on topic.
???
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JUST ONE IDIOT LIKE YOU CAN IGNORE HISTORY BECAUSE DON'T LIKE ONE PERSON !!!
I don´t ignore history. I actually support including the Romanians (because I have read Antony Beevor´s "Stalingrad" and know that Romanians played a pivotal role in the Eastern Front).
The problem here is that EVERYONE IS TIRED OF YOU TALKING ABOUT ROMANIANS, BECAUSE ALL YOU DO IS SPAM WALLS OF TEXT MIXED WITH BLIND NATIONALISM.
You are so blinded that you didn´t even notice ford prefect´s post was a RHETHORIC QUESTION. Which means that he already knew the answer to his own question, what he intended to mean with what he wrote was that Spaniards should not be included in the mod because they only sent one division, while Romanians and Italians sent many more troops.
Which is, of course, a bullshit reason when you have in mind that CoH includes Sherman Crocodiles (only four of them ever existed, if I remember correctly), you can field as many King Tigers as you want, and what is even better... you can shoot V1s at enemy troops, something Germany never did.
this is why I don't really like you....
I thought you didn´t like me because I had an anime-inspired avatar which in your mind meant that I was a teenager, or something like that. That, and your bias against Spaniards that doesn´t make much sense to me.
But yeah, whatever, let´s get back on topic. See how long we can go without ford prefect again positioning himself against including the Blue Division, and/or PSIHOPAT spouting more of his nationalism.
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i saw a great idea somewhere here on forum, you can call non German troops from one ability and it randomly choose from all included units so its the best idea and all nations which fight on eastern front at axis side could be there...
this is great solution of the problem of non German troops... :)
so Italian, Romanian, Hungary, Slovakia, Spain, Finish soldiers could be called but no body knows which one comes:P
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@Saavedra
Hey chicken brain.
I barely understand and write english and many things are missed in translation like "rhetoric speaking"(or sarcasm) about you talk about.
So....i judge words just how they are written.
And...YES!!!...I LOVE MY COUNTRY!!!...but that is my "problem"....also if you sell your country for a good tasty sh*t is your problem and i care less.
Consider this subject ended about that and stop attacking me.
On topic => i have nothing against any country to be included in this mod,but i consider to be high priority for countries who actually played a major role in EF.
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!!TOPIC CLOSED!!
Team have to talk about this here. So dont hope
that this thread will be open again in near future.
New threads with the same topic will be closed, too.
Problems or protest -> use PM!
And a general information:
For your small private EF-forum wars you could use the
PM function as well >:(
Lord Rommel >:(