Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Suggestions => Red Army Suggestions => Topic started by: wordsmith on June 18, 2010, 11:08:08 PM

Title: Soviet army suggestions "2"
Post by: wordsmith on June 18, 2010, 11:08:08 PM: Soviet army suggestion
by Wordsmith

Originally I had all my new suggestions in one file but I think to keep articles shorter I decided to split it into next topic. As I wrote, the reason of this article is to propose slight changes to Soviet army [1.11] which IMO could improve the overall balance and playability of EF.

II. Outpost

As Budwise pointed out (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=3599.0), with introduction of retreat to Soviets, Outpost needs to be reworked.

You can find more suggestions about Outpost on forum, one example:
Outpost (150 MP) - buildable everywhere, garrison units
- possible upgrade (100 Ammo) to forward outpost with ability to reinforce units

For increased resource income, Zis5 medic truck could be used. When deployed it could secure territories similar as PE Scout Car. This will come with its increased price to 220 MP, 25 Fuel. Pop cap could remain the same. Since this truck could be destroyed also with small arms it will need to be protected by Soviet.

III. Infantry - Artillery coordination

Snipers have the ability to call-in arty strike. I think this ability should be globally unlocked in Armory with: Forward observer upgrade - 150 MP, 25 Fuel. After that upgrade, all Snipers and Sniper Ace could call an arty strike for 150 Ammo.

IV. Breakthrough doctrine

I pointed it several times, even started a topic about it (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=3551.0): Sherman just doesn't fit into Breakthrough doctrine however nice the model is.

Su-76 mobile AT gun would fit the doctrine better and Sherman should be either reward unit or available to build in Tank Hall after some kind "Lend lease Act" upgrade in Armory. Such upgrade could also unlock some other units or abilities, like american rifles for Conscripts or Scout jeep for Support Barracks.

V. Tank Hall upgrades alternative

I have another idea how the Tank Hall upgrades could be arranged. The upgrades could remain the same but there could be 2 options to each upgrade in general, one as short term investment and one as long term one. Long term investment will be more expensive upgrade (representing the movement of all production to Ural mountains as happened in WW2) but the units then will cost less in fuel. F.e.:

Tank Hall costs 250 MP, 50 Fuel
Quick Light tankovy upgrade - 180 MP, 15 Fuel
-> T70/90 costs 260 MP, 35 Fuel
Quick Medium tankovy upgrade - 230 MP, 30 Fuel
-> T34 costs 340 MP, 90 Fuel
-> Su85 costs 340 MP, 70 Fuel

Standard Light tankovy upgrade - 250 MP, 60 Fuel
-> T70/90 costs 260 MP, 15 Fuel
Standard Medium tankovy upgrade - 300 MP, 95 Fuel
-> T34 costs 340 MP, 55 Fuel
-> Su85 costs 340 MP, 35 Fuel

Please consider costs for these upgrades/units as rough estimate, these could be tuned during beta-testing. Also upgrading time could be longer for "Standard" upgrade, like 3x times or more longer.

IS-2 would cost as normal 600 MP, 135 Fuel only when choosing both Standard upgrades, with every quick one it could cost like 10 Fuel more (in total +20 Fuel).

VI. Officer - doctrine abilities idea

Officer could have 4 men only and after player choose doctrine it could receive fifth man - representing the field specialist who joined Commander staff. This way Axis player could see if Soviet player already chose doctrine yet - of course if the squad is full, there is always possibility that he had 4 men because of 1 man got killed.

After doctrine is chosen, following minor abilities could apply to Commander:

Propaganda - units around Commander receive slightly less suppression, passive ability
Urban - when Commander is garrisoning building it receive +20 sight range
Breakthrough - Commander can drop smoke mortar barrage too
Title: Re: Soviet army suggestions "2"
Post by: Red_Stinger on June 20, 2010, 01:23:17 PM: 100 ammo to improve a basic outpost is expensive! I will never use it, except in map like Scheldt, St-Petersbourg or Vire!

Again, I like the way sharshootter's arty is. In late game you have a way to use your ammo.
The only annoying thing for me that Sniper Ace should come with the upgrade in game. Also, sharpshooters should be able to call only light arty strike (like mortar), while Sniper Ace and commander (In tier3) should be able to call-in Heavy arti strike.
In this way you can have two upgrade for sharpshooters: 1 global upgrade to allow them to call mortar strike, and another global or individual, which allow them to call heavy bombardment, like commander or Sniper Ace.

I agree, even if sherman model is very well worked, its a tank already used by USA and Commonwealth, its boring now :-\

Your tank hall upgrades looks complicated! I would prefer 2 normal upgrade (like now), and a global upgrade in Armory or Tank hall which improved the training of tanks crew. In 3vs3 or 4vs4 game, a T34 which cost only 340MP and 55 Fuel will certainly give victory to soviet team, since "standart upgrade" arent that expensive in 3vs3 game. Even with rough estimation, it would complicate game, and I dont like this ;D ;D

Your Officer doctrine abilities idea look like pretty good!!
But I would see bonus like this:

PROPAGANDA: A commissar join the squad (like NKVD conscript), who give defense bonus and attack malus to the squad and any infantryman near him.

URBAN: A sniper join the squad, mean that the Regiment receive more snipers to fight in streets. Also sharpshooter can cloak while moving, and can hide in buildings, but are far more expensive.

BREAKTHROUGH: A radioman join the squad, improving coordination between officer's staff and all troops near him (soldiers AND tanks). Officers would act as a british lieutenant.

What does it sound? Perhaps overpowered, but it would fit well if commanders unit cost fuel.

Also, in my point of view, Doctrine need to be a bit reworked:
-why does propaganda have an offensive bonus? "For the Motherland" can be replaced with, say, an abilitie that allow to the player to build infantry more quickly, or allow him to build more than 1 firebase, or allow to tanks to diggin (it was tipically a soviet tactic).

-Partisans could have already the abilitie to "booby trap point" but would come with only some rifle. This way you can have an abilitie to improve ,f.e, the cover bonus of infantry.

-In Breakthrough, "Inspiring Speech" could be replace with a more interesting abilitie. I remember that wordsmith proposed several good idea of passive abilitie, which rely on tanks. Btw, I would replace ISU-152 by IS2, and let the tank hall build normal KV-1S/KV-82. I've seen a pretty KV model, why it isnt used in EF?
These are simple suggestions, without regards for balance (obviously!), but for me, it would improve EF, and that's I want. :)
Title: Re: Soviet army suggestions "2"
Post by: Seeme on June 20, 2010, 04:08:45 PM: For the outpost, is it 100 ammo for all, or 100 ammo for 1?
Title: Re: Soviet army suggestions "2"
Post by: wordsmith on June 20, 2010, 04:40:27 PM: Quote from: Seeme on June 20, 2010, 04:08:45 PM
For the outpost, is it 100 ammo for all, or 100 ammo for 1?

100 Ammo for 1 :) it's just suggestion, but you must realize that Soviet can use mobile healing truck, which is deadly in combination with building which reinforce units buildable everywhere. US, Wehr and PE could build reinforce points only in existing buildings. Of course they have trucks which could reinforce too, but dont have healing option.

Outpost was justified because of no-Retreat for Soviets but this will change in [1.2]. My point is that Outpost needs to be rethought too...

Quote from: Red_Stinger on June 20, 2010, 01:23:17 PM
Again, I like the way sharshootter's arty is. In late game you have a way to use your ammo.
The only annoying thing for me that Sniper Ace should come with the upgrade in game. Also, sharpshooters should be able to call only light arty strike (like mortar), while Sniper Ace and commander (In tier3) should be able to call-in Heavy arti strike.
In this way you can have two upgrade for sharpshooters: 1 global upgrade to allow them to call mortar strike, and another global or individual, which allow them to call heavy bombardment, like commander or Sniper Ace.

My suggestion was only to make it harder to get, first Global upgrade and then unlock ability to individual Snipers for 150 Ammo. Other factions needs to pay for arty strikes a lot, and now it is easy to get for Soviet. As I pointed out in my analysis, multi-function units should have increased cost for its purpose.

Quote from: Red_Stinger on June 20, 2010, 01:23:17 PM
Your tank hall upgrades looks complicated! I would prefer 2 normal upgrade (like now), and a global upgrade in Armory or Tank hall which improved the training of tanks crew. In 3vs3 or 4vs4 game, a T34 which cost only 340MP and 55 Fuel will certainly give victory to soviet team, since "standart upgrade" arent that expensive in 3vs3 game. Even with rough estimation, it would complicate game, and I dont like this ;D ;D

:) well it is just an idea - how to make Soviet tech more interesting, more like investment which Soviet player would need to decide. It could add a diversity, but yes I agree that in more player games it could be unbalanced. The costs are estimate I didn't calculate it.
Title: Re: Soviet army suggestions "2"
Post by: Alexander 'ApeMen' J. on June 20, 2010, 04:43:18 PM: i like the idear of the "new" outpost.
but as we all know soviets only need ammo untill midgame
after that ammo is senseless. i think soviets should also pay ammo for doctrinal use of bombers or god of war.

i also like the idear that only the officer can use mortar 4free
sniper upgrade is good but make it cheaper and for that every arty/morter strike costs ammo

the sherman is ok but as wordsmith said
it dosen´t make sense in the doctrin

as a reward unit its great ;-)
Title: Re: Soviet army suggestions "2"
Post by: SublimeSnugz on June 20, 2010, 07:56:32 PM: I really like the VI. Officer - doctrine abilities idea.

the 5th member added to the command squard could be an Officer Model?

BreakTrhough - Tank Officer
Propaganda - NKVD Officer
Urban - Infantry Officer

link for uniforms that i refer to - http://www.tridentmilitary.com/Reproduction-uniforms/Soviet-uniforms.html (http://www.tridentmilitary.com/Reproduction-uniforms/Soviet-uniforms.html)

ps - how about adding extra seconds to the Charge ability if Propaganda doctrine is chosen?? instead of less supression.
Title: Re: Soviet army suggestions "2"
Post by: Seeme on June 21, 2010, 12:49:41 AM: Wordsmith is one of the most useful people on this fourm :)

We should all thank him for all the stuff he did.
Title: Re: Soviet army suggestions "2"
Post by: wordsmith on June 22, 2010, 12:25:28 AM: Quote from: Seeme on June 21, 2010, 12:49:41 AM
Wordsmith is one of the most useful people on this fourm :)

We should all thank him for all the stuff he did.

I'm really flattered :). However as I wrote before: You're overestimating me, I didn't do anything special. I just like thinking about new possibilities and imaging new ideas. Maybe because I use graphics to present them but anyone could do it. The only thing I have is maybe my experience with computer games, I play them since 1986 - the year that most of the people here were not even born :) and I designed and programmed some games before too (on 8-bit Atari or later on 16-bit Commodore Amiga) so I know, at least approximately, what devs of EF are now going through...