Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => General Discussion => Topic started by: AbhMkh on August 04, 2010, 05:17:59 AM

Title: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: AbhMkh on August 04, 2010, 05:17:59 AM
Can anybody explain to me why the hell has been the soviet mortar barrage ability been removed??

And whts the difference between the normal soviet units and the veteran soviet units??

Is there some sort of battle hardened commander leading the veterans ones? :D

Its really annoying you knw , tht day i was playing on the map Seine River Docks , the PE mortar HT really pissed me off every time i brought out an AT gun it used to fire and kill it , i used to counter Mortar Ht's with the soviet mortar barrage which apparently has the same range , i cannot even do tht nymore.... :-\

Is it another balance issue or wht???

 
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: GodlikeDennis on August 04, 2010, 05:27:04 AM
You can still use attack ground.

I don't know exactly why it was removed either tbh. The vet listing should be in the changelog, the only one I can remember is that they get an extra squad member at vet 2. I think they might get -15% received acc at vet 1.

The mortar armoury upgrade still gives the mega mortar we all know and love.
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Desert_Fox on August 04, 2010, 01:46:42 PM
Can anybody explain to me why the hell has been the soviet mortar barrage ability been removed??

I think because otherwise it would be too OP if it had the fire controlled by the player.
This way you can still attack, but with less precision and risking Friendly Fire. :P
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: GreenApple on August 04, 2010, 01:57:29 PM
You can use the "Attack" button, although you have to see the enemy units.
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Seeme on August 04, 2010, 06:51:45 PM
Just use attack ground, only thing diffenret is that it dosent have a circle.

Also remember to upgrade your mortel if you like useing it, its killer when you do :)
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: AbhMkh on August 04, 2010, 07:21:14 PM
I see , but the barrage is more convenient and accurate , its very frustrating though when you cant hit back , bring in a new heavy weapon just to be flamed by the mortar Ht , and im just sitting ducks 
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Paciat on August 04, 2010, 07:47:18 PM
I see , but the barrage is more convenient and accurate , its very frustrating though when you cant hit back , bring in a new heavy weapon just to be flamed by the mortar Ht , and im just sitting ducks
Mortar halftrack costs 40Fuel.  It would be very frustrating if normal mortars could bombard it back with little micro and no ammo cost.
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: ed@lweiss on August 05, 2010, 12:29:42 AM
IMO the russian 120 mm mortar shouldn't move so fast as the other german or US GB Mortars.
Or the deployment should be delaied.
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: AbhMkh on August 05, 2010, 09:51:43 AM
Are you scared that the russians have a better tech than germans :P
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: GodlikeDennis on August 05, 2010, 11:18:47 AM
I see , but the barrage is more convenient and accurate , its very frustrating though when you cant hit back , bring in a new heavy weapon just to be flamed by the mortar Ht , and im just sitting ducks
Mortar halftrack costs 40Fuel.  It would be very frustrating if normal mortars could bombard it back with little micro and no ammo cost.

The micro argument doesn't quite hold true seeing as now (if you don't use attack ground) you have to just let soviet mortars do it's thing and attack what it wants. I agree the mortar halftrack should be as good as it is though.

EDIT: I should also point out that the American mortar is actually LESS accurate when it barrages, unlike the others.
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Zerstörer on August 05, 2010, 11:32:14 AM
Soviet mortar fires 20% faster than a normal mortar as standard, which is why it doesn't have barrage

Its not about better tech, its about balance and please post in a normal manner like everyone else
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: AbhMkh on August 05, 2010, 01:22:19 PM
Ya hunnnnnnnn ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) , "balance" again ::)
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: GodlikeDennis on August 05, 2010, 01:51:04 PM
Yeah, it's this important thing that's required for any game to be remotely competitive and to stay alive (and to have fun from any side).
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Strayker on August 05, 2010, 02:33:48 PM
I think that removing the barrage ability from upgraded mortar was a wise decision, still there can be used the attack ground order. But i would prefer if the unupgraded mortar have its barage ability back...maybe to add some diversity it can be weaker if unupraded than US or WH mortars. Perhaps it can be upgraded in similar fashion as a T-34 i mean from 76 to 85.
So if unupgraded it could be the PM-38 5cm mortar and after upgrade it could be the mounsrous M1938 120mm.
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: BlackSphere on August 06, 2010, 02:59:25 AM
+1!!!
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Artillerist on September 16, 2010, 11:22:40 PM
So if unupgraded it could be the PM-38 5cm mortar and after upgrade it could be the mounsrous M1938 120mm.

Soviet mortars of WW II
RM-38 and RM-40 (Ротный миномёт - Company mortar) - 50mm
BM-37, BM-41 - (Батальонный миномёт - Batallion Mortar) - 82mm
PM-38, PM-41, PM-43 0 (полковой миномёт - Regiment mortar) - 120mm
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Rikard Blixt on September 17, 2010, 10:34:43 AM
So if unupgraded it could be the PM-38 5cm mortar and after upgrade it could be the mounsrous M1938 120mm.

Soviet mortars of WW II
RM-38 and RM-40 (Ротный миномёт - Company mortar) - 50mm
BM-37, BM-41 - (Батальонный миномёт - Batallion Mortar) - 82mm
PM-38, PM-41, PM-43 0 (полковой миномёт - Regiment mortar) - 120mm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1938_mortar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1938_mortar)
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Mr. Someguy on September 17, 2010, 06:42:21 PM
I know everyone is saying to use "attack ground", but the difference between "barrage" and "attack ground" is the barrage stops on it's own, so it can begin targeting enemy units when it's done. Attack ground just hits the same spot forever.
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Seeme on September 17, 2010, 10:07:09 PM
Theres a nice button next to it that says "Stop"
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Zerstörer on September 18, 2010, 10:56:21 AM
I know everyone is saying to use "attack ground", but the difference between "barrage" and "attack ground" is the barrage stops on it's own, so it can begin targeting enemy units when it's done. Attack ground just hits the same spot forever.
Its the price you have to pay for having the most powerful mortar in the game  ;). It can't be benefits all teh way you know...
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Artillerist on September 18, 2010, 06:45:26 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1938_mortar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1938_mortar)

Rizz:
there is a transliteration mistake on that webpage.
Ротный миномёт (Rotny Minomjot) is not 50mm PM-38/40 but RM-38 with improved version RM-40.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/50-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%91%D1%82%D1%8B_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80._1938_%D0%B8_1940_%D0%B3%D0%B3. (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/50-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%91%D1%82%D1%8B_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80._1938_%D0%B8_1940_%D0%B3%D0%B3.)

Also, BM-37 (Bataljonny Minomjot) .
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%91%D1%82_82_%D0%BC%D0%BC (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%91%D1%82_82_%D0%BC%D0%BC)
is mistranslated as PM-37
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/82-PM-37 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/82-PM-37)

Dont trust english WiKi in case with Russian weapon :)
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Rikard Blixt on September 19, 2010, 12:20:01 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1938_mortar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1938_mortar)

Rizz:
there is a transliteration mistake on that webpage.
Ротный миномёт (Rotny Minomjot) is not 50mm PM-38/40 but RM-38 with improved version RM-40.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/50-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%91%D1%82%D1%8B_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80._1938_%D0%B8_1940_%D0%B3%D0%B3. (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/50-%D0%BC%D0%BC_%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%91%D1%82%D1%8B_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80._1938_%D0%B8_1940_%D0%B3%D0%B3.)

Also, BM-37 (Bataljonny Minomjot) .
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%91%D1%82_82_%D0%BC%D0%BC (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%BC%D1%91%D1%82_82_%D0%BC%D0%BC)
is mistranslated as PM-37
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/82-PM-37 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/82-PM-37)

Dont trust english WiKi in case with Russian weapon :)

All I'm saying, that's the mortar in EF.

The Russian page of it say more or less the same.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fru.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F120-%25D0%25BC%25D0%25BC_%25D0%25BF%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BB%25D0%25BA%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B9_%25D0%25BC%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BC%25D1%2591%25D1%2582_%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B1%25D1%2580._1938_%25D0%25B3. (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fru.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F120-%25D0%25BC%25D0%25BC_%25D0%25BF%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BB%25D0%25BA%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B2%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B9_%25D0%25BC%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BE%25D0%25BC%25D1%2591%25D1%2582_%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B1%25D1%2580._1938_%25D0%25B3.)
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Artillerist on September 19, 2010, 01:58:20 PM
Yes, RiZZ, I understood.

But all I want to tell, is that "Mortar M1938" is is incorrect name :) You dont call T-34 as "Tank M1940", dont You? :)
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Rikard Blixt on September 19, 2010, 02:54:40 PM
We call it M1938, as this is what it's known as in the English speaking countries (like our game is in).

Also it's like we don't call the Katyushas, "BM-13 Katyusha Rocket Launcher", it's to long. We need to keep it short and simple.
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Artillerist on September 19, 2010, 05:57:59 PM
But Your game is also in russian speaking coutries, isnt it? :)

Hmmm... So, why not to remove ZiS-2 and place 57 mm anti-tank gun M1943, remove ML-20 and place 152 mm howitzer-gun M1937, and list is long...

After all, all theese are Soviet weapons. And IMHO correct would be Soviet names.

P.S. Just name it "Heavy mortar" :) Calling it M1938 let us think about it was built in the West :) Next move will be - 120-mm Mortar Mk.I :)
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Rikard Blixt on September 19, 2010, 07:15:45 PM
Take it up with the translators if you want it changed in the Russian Language.
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: ReckLESS on September 19, 2010, 09:35:30 PM
Already changed it:

Code: [Select]
120-мм полковой миномёт ударного действия образца 1938 г. отлично подходит для уничтожения и прорыва обороны противника.
Artillerist, if you have some corrections/suggestions on this or other strings in RU version - use my ICQ or MSN (in my profile)
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Artillerist on September 21, 2010, 01:04:45 PM
ReckLESS - я тебе в аську пишу, не отвечаешь...
Title: Re: Soviet Mortar and Heavy weapons
Post by: Sturmovik on September 22, 2010, 09:10:07 AM
Ya hunnnnnnnn ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) , "balance" again ::)
Aha ... again it's chisel word.
If russians does know about ballance ... they never build 120mm mortars, heavy MGs, capture throphy tanks ... looks life a fear with the soviet army.