Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Suggestions => Topic started by: AbhMkh on August 11, 2010, 07:23:57 PM
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I was playing with airborne the other day , and i was flabbergasted at the message "Actions cannot be performed", when i tried to call in more airborne squads
Why , simply because the AI spams call in units....
What the hell can we do if the AI spams call in units , the strength of airborne lies in its infantry and anywhere drop able AT guns , it doesnt make any sense if you cant use more than 4 or 5 of these , "It makes the germans really OP"
Devs i suggest that this limit should be removed
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Well i had the same problem but on the German side! I played PE with Luftwaffe tactics and i could not get more than 3 squads of Fallschirmjaegers...that was really annoying. And the other day ive played PE Tank Destroyers and only 3 Hetzers out of 4 could be called. Those limits are really a bad idea...youre right they should be removed!
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You shouldn't need that many airborne/AT guns anyway. They are there to support your normal riflemen in an AT role. Giant blobs of airborne aren't a skillful way to play the game.
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You shouldn't need that many airborne/AT guns anyway. They are there to support your normal riflemen in an AT role. Giant blobs of airborne aren't a skillful way to play the game.
Its "AIRBORNE" , with this stupid restriction on the call in units , I'm not able to use its mobile attack tactics cause i'm severely limited with the airborne squads and guns , if i had to use riflemen or tanks the i would choose infantry or armor doctrine rather than airborne , I love its assault tactics , you can cut down jerry infantry and blast the hell out of armor with those airborne AT guns. But now I keep getting the stupid message "actions cannot be performed"
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the limits on call-in units are there for a reason: to prevent the AI of spamming them. if the limits are removed the AI will spam them again which would be terrible. so right now the limits seem to be necessary for all who want to play balanced games vs AI.
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the limits on call-in units are there for a reason: to prevent the AI of spamming them. if the limits are removed the AI will spam them again which would be terrible. so right now the limits seem to be necessary for all who want to play balanced games vs AI.
Yes...If someone wants spamming with units and play against another spam, he must play at Original CoH ;D
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Gentlemen you are not understanding the oint , why the hell would any one choose airborne if he cant get enough units to fulfill the purpose of "AIRBORNE" , I'd be better off choosing infantry or armor
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I'm not sure you understand our point. The doctrines are not meant to completely define how you play but rather give you some neat support abilities. You don't see every armour player only building tanks or every infantry not building a single vehicle. Why do you want more airborne anyway? Just a couple of squads decimate most vehicles and they are much worse against infantry than rifles. It makes more sense to use combined arms rather than a giant blob of airborne.
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[...]The doctrines are not meant to completely define how you play but rather give you some neat support abilities. You don't see every armour player only building tanks or every infantry not building a single vehicle.[...]
+1
and btw the doctrines have more to offer than just call-ins (e.g. airborne: supply drops, recon/strafing/bombing runs)
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http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=1557.0 (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=1557.0)
Have a look at it , before say anything further
The american "company commander"
abilities , affect your predefined abilities , for eg faster infantry dep , faster tank dep , on field repairs , rangers etc , faster construction of defenses , the british abilities and axis abilities are more support oriented
So in the Americans , the "Company Commander" you choose affects your strategy of play , hence when a person uses airborne , he should focus less on deploying armor and more on infantry support like mg's , snipers , mortars etc
Get it now??
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I agree that the hardcaps should be removed and put as it was in vCoH.
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http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=1557.0 (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=1557.0)
Have a look at it , before say anything further
The american "company commander"
abilities , affect your predefined abilities , for eg faster infantry dep , faster tank dep , on field repairs , rangers etc , faster construction of defenses , the british abilities and axis abilities are more support oriented
So in the Americans , the "Company Commander" you choose affects your strategy of play , hence when a person uses airborne , he should focus less on deploying armor and more on infantry support like mg's , snipers , mortars etc
Get it now??
Which has nothing to do with an airborne blob. Do you get it?
Airborne is actually a very good doctrine to rush tanks with because you get excellent AT support in your paras, while rifles + strafe deal with most infantry threats.
And sorry Bud, I disagree. Airborne, rangers and Falls should have a limit of 4. The arty callins should be limited at 3 like normal. AT guns limited at 3-4. Stormtroopers don't really need a limit seeing as you need them as main troops with T3 Blitz and their obscene pop cost limits them enough. It's good that elite infantry blobbing has limits now.
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Why cant you accept your defeat with grace?? ;)
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I'm defeated? News to me. You haven't put forth a good enough argument at all.
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My suggestion will be supported by all without arguments :P
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do you choose the doctrine that fits best into your playing style or the other way around?
we understand that the doctrine influences your game but it's also about the map, the enemies and your personal way of playing, e.g. some airborne players don't like to blob airborne squads ;) but rather use all the weapons/abilities to defeat their enemies with combined arms and a good strategy ::)
godlikedennis is right about the airborne and tank thing cause you certainly have enough ressources for tanks via the supply drops.
but back to topic: unless there is a way to prevent AI from abusing the call-in units, the limits should remain as they are. not everyone can or wants to play vs. human players via internet.
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Of course , you have to bring in armor , in the later stages of the game , the doctrine you choose definitely changes your style of play , otherwise why would you choose it??
when a player knows that he/she can deploy infantry/armor units faster by choosing infantry/armor doctrine , then why the hell would he choose the airborne doctrine , airborne is not simply meant for "support" , it defines how you play , that is infiltration tactics
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No, most players pick airborne because they CBF to kill snipers the hard way...
You shouldn't need any more than 4 airborne for AT anyway. They're rubbish for AI so you may as well get rifles.
As far as I'm concerned, if a teammate drops, I absolutely do not want to be left with a com that just spams one unit.
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you can play in many different ways with airborne. not just infiltrating. if you choose armor you can deploy vehilces faster but what if you don't have enough fuel? airborne offers additional fuel...
and IMHO airborne is very good for support. sorry to say it, but if you think that you can only use airborne for infilttration, than you should rework your tactics, couse it offers so much more.
and why do you want more than 4 airborne squads/AT guns? that should be enough, unless you want to blob them ;)
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Units like mg's, mortar, sniper, vehicles,tanks are always needed
In airborne there is no need to use the following units
riflemen
produced AT guns
one must work the tactics accordingly , airborne gives you the capability of handling vehicles early in the game , so "Use it For Infiltration"
Cheers ;)
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Infiltration has nothing to do with countering vehicles, check your dictionary. Riflemen are an essential component of all US play. Produced AT guns are identical to the airdropped ones but cheaper and can't reinforce anywhere. They can still be built. Admit it, you just want to spam the fuck out of airborne and blob up because that's easy to you.
On an additional note, the limit on call-in arty for the factions needs to be raised immediately back to 3. It is unfair to scorched earth and arty doctrine.
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On an additional note, the limit on call-in arty for the factions needs to be raised immediately back to 3. It is unfair to scorched earth and arty doctrine.
which units do you mean? priest and katyusha?
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Priest and Hummel. They're currently limited to 2 and it should be 3.
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Priest and Hummel. They're currently limited to 2 and it should be 3.
Yeah that limit should be definetly removed...
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I'm kinda wondering, other than the AI stupidly spamming them (which is definitely a good reason to limit them), why not have the limits removed? Who cares how one person uses them? If you come up against those blobbers as you say in online mode, use your superior tactics and crush them.
It doesn't make sense to get rid of the ability to have more of them just because some people may overuse/blob them, unless they were overpowered in some way. But they're fairly weak infantry that use up 6 cap and that can be killed many ways even with a lot of them.
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I'm kinda wondering, other than the AI stupidly spamming them (which is definitely a good reason to limit them)
that's why the limits are there
It doesn't make sense to get rid of the ability to have more of them just because some people may overuse/blob them, unless they were overpowered in some way. But they're fairly weak infantry that use up 6 cap and that can be killed many ways even with a lot of them.
to give an example: the tiger is limited to 1 at a time to keep the balance and you are suggesting to remove that as well?! because other players could use their tactics to defeat 4 tigers per player?! ::) and btw if they are so weak and useless why do you want to have even more of them?
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There is no need to bring out bloody 5 tigers , just restore the call in units as in vCOH
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I'm kinda wondering, other than the AI stupidly spamming them (which is definitely a good reason to limit them)
that's why the limits are there
It doesn't make sense to get rid of the ability to have more of them just because some people may overuse/blob them, unless they were overpowered in some way. But they're fairly weak infantry that use up 6 cap and that can be killed many ways even with a lot of them.
to give an example: the tiger is limited to 1 at a time to keep the balance and you are suggesting to remove that as well?! because other players could use their tactics to defeat 4 tigers per player?! ::) and btw if they are so weak and useless why do you want to have even more of them?
No kidding, that's why the limits are there? Like, you mean, like I knew? And that you even quoted?
I don't think you even read what you quoted. I said, "overpowered in some way". Do you see it up there? Call-in tanks are generally much more powerful than the normal ones you can build, with drastically increased health/armor/power. As such, THEY SHOULD STAY LIMITED, JUST LIKE THEY ARE IN vCOH.
However, the airborne are not really overpowered. They are infantry that can competently take on tanks and buildings with a decently expensive upgrade, but are horrible at taking on infantry. They can be called-in anywhere you can see, but cost a bit more.
They are fairly weak (you know, like most normal infantry is), but certainly not useless, and I never said they were. I said they were not overpowered.
Stop putting words into my mouth, thank you.
I agree with AbhMkh. Just restore the call-in units to as in vCOH.
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There is no need to bring out bloody 5 tigers , just restore the call in units as in vCOH
soon after that people would start crying about the AI spamming them. the AI in EF is playing better and more entertaining then in vCoH and that would change ::) resulting in less games vs. AI and some players leaving EF...
but maybe you can give us a reason why you really want to have more than 4 airborne squads, because i just don't get it since you're not a spammer, right ???
please calm down, ShinseiTom, that wasn't meant to be offensive.
I don't think you even read what you quoted.
i did ;)
airborne can be dropped and reinforced everywhere (with recon plane), can fire up, have better health than the other american infantry, can be upgraded with an accurate AT weapon, can use satchel charges vs. buildings, can use get heavy weapons (MG and mortar via supply drop, dropped AT guns)...that doesn't sound like a weak unit, more like a quite powerful and versatile unit.
i often play as airborne and i never use more that 2-4 squads of airborne nor do i see my teammates using more than 4.
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Did I hear the two words " Airborne " and " Weak "???
You know how I love my Airborne, and how I hate those 2 words combined.
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what do you think seeme?
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What do I think? That I should go 1v1 on him and show him how airborne is done.
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Yes give him a good one , and i meant about the units?
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Oh I think that Airborne just might be the strongest unit in the game. As people said before, it can be dropped anywhere. And if you don't have recon plane, it can be dropped near you guys to give support, dropped behind a bunker or mg nest, etc. Since they have great amour(Airborne amour) they don't die easily when In front of A mg, making the fire up ability useful. So even if there in front of a MG, they can knock it out. Meaning Mgs are almost useless to Wehrmacht if you know how to use airborne.
Also It can basically be its own force, because airborne has those rifles that are better then most mobile AT weapons. And if you don't have muni on you, Get a AT gun. You don't even have to retreat cause they reinforce anywhere, making it a great threat. Same goes for the AT gun. And if you need to def a position that you just took with the airborne, call down heavy weapons package and you get a mortar and a mg, but great for the job. You also get free fuel and Muni so that helps pay for a AT Rifle for the airborne.
And last, no buildings can survive when airborne comes, with its satchel charges and its Pineapple Grenades, it will clear out any building and probably destroy it, meaning if the enemy comes out, he cant re enter again. This goes great up fire up, cause like I said before if theres a MG in the building, run up, throw, run away, Hes dead.
So all in all theirs almost no weakness for the airborne. The only thing that is any threat is the Whirlwind and the Ostwald, And The KCH and MP44 PGs. if you do it right, you can even counter those with the hit and run tactic. So now what do you think of the Airborne?
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Aah the airborne is a great unit as you mentioned , with all its capabilities , however the thing being discussed here is "the limits on the call in units"
Airborne can be used most effectively when it is present at the right place at the right time , now with this limit , i cant use it properly , what say ya??
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Am sorry I just got mad for some reason.
Lets not go off-topic now.
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is it not possible to add an option to the start-up program?
call-in units limits on/off?
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I'm for keeping the caps, It makes AI games fun and plus I hate seeing games being ruined by spam blobs. Although the priest/hummel limmit should be brought back up to 3.
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What the hell can we do if the AI spams call in units , the strength of airborne lies in its infantry and anywhere drop able AT guns , it doesnt make any sense if you cant use more than 4 or 5 of these
5 AT guns isnt enough? :o ::)
How many AT guns do you need?
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Eh. Actually, I'm for adding MORE limits.
Like 50%-60% max pop for armor. To keep mechanized
armies balanced. But that can be argued.
Actually, my beef is with tanks like Callioppe and Crocodile.
In 1.0 COH, Callioppe had no cap, but could use their 75mm.
People would only make those, since cost no fuel. Spam them like hell. (Imagine the rocket barrage!!!).
Now they've been capped to 2. Fine. How about giving
them their gun back now? :)
Same with Crocodile. It's a regular sherman (no upgrades)
But with a machine gun removed to put in the flamethrower.
How about capping it to 2 (It's a speciality unit), only used
for tank trap removal, really. The Sherman 105mm is a HUGE
improvement over this unit. Maybe give it the Jumbo gun.
(75mm short, with HE rounds). That way, it would be
comparable to 105, sorta. With the flamethower making up
for the extra machine gun?
I'm for capping the StuH42/105 too. Maybe to 3-4 ?
Panthers to 4?
Etc.
I like diversity.
God, Ostwind, Wirblewind ought to be capped too.
Thinking of 20x Ostwind armies rushing the base in
3vs3...
What are the chances to see that in real life?
(I know it's just a game, meh)
Fireflies... etc.
No caps on 'regular tanks though'. Pz4, StuG, Sherman.
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Priest and Hummel. They're currently limited to 2 and it should be 3.
Yeah that limit should be definetly removed...
I agree but I can also wee where the AI or playing against someone using them could get really annoyed. I usually stagger them when firing so I have a continuous barrage into the fog of war or into choke points. Really cheap but no different than any other buildable or doctrinal artillery unit.
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I always thought that EF team could fix the US crocodile by giving him the correct vet, and a functional 75mm cannon, its an infantry support tank after all, and I thought that while you upgrade your shermans to 76mm the crocodile should remain with the 75mm one, because is just a IST, hence allowing to use up-gunned shermans and M10 to deal with armor and a crocodile supported by rifleman to take care of infantry and at the same time, be able to counter effectively a sneaky Puma.
But i don't agree that every unit should have a limit.
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Maybe you should have an option, when you want to use the flamer you choose that button meaning the crew operates the flame but not the gun to take out inf. When you deal with Amour you have an button to get the Gun, meaning you cant use the Flamer but the gun. Same thing with the Rockets, it would pause the reloading time but fire its main gun.
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I remember when the croc was so powerful it could dominate a massive enemy army in seconds.
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Those times have changed...
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- Yea, I just don't fear the flamethrower like I used to,
anymore.
- Sigh. I guess he wants all cap removed. Guess we got
to make King Tiger / Tiger / JagPanther call ins with no
cap, eh? :)
I really wonder how he'll feel when 60 Hummel blow up
his base.
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- Yea, I just don't fear the flamethrower like I used to,
anymore.
- Sigh. I guess he wants all cap removed. Guess we got
to make King Tiger / Tiger / JagPanther call ins with no
cap, eh? :)
I really wonder how he'll feel when 60 Hummel blow up
his base.
Lol. Must people just shit themselfs seeing One King Tiger.
I deff. shit myselfs when i'm playing Wehrmacht, and HQ Gets destroyed by Calliopes.
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(airborne is one hell of a unit for infiltration-support pls remove restrict)
but imagine if 4 allies players in a 4v4 agree that they will all
take infantry doctrine and build 30 rangers eh?
while on the other hand wermacht players could all pick tank doctrine and
call in 10 king tigers and support them with grenadiers making them unbeatable i cant fantasize for more callin spams cause i think you got my point so i agree removing the restictions in some units not all ;)
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(airborne is one hell of a unit for infiltration-support pls remove restrict)
while on the other hand wermacht players could all pick tank doctrine and call in 10 king tigers
(http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/30403/original/YouMad.jpg?1260647699)
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i am not mad i am just saying my opinion :'(
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I wish weather was implemented in COH ;) Sigh.
I'm sad they want to make OstHeer more spam-capable
than Soviets, though.
(as Lord Rommel said that OstHeer will be capable to have
more tanks, better, and earlier thanks than soviets) on the field.
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(as Lord Rommel said that OstHeer will be capable to have
more tanks, better, and earlier thanks than soviets) on the field.
where did he say that? he just said that ostheer might have panzer III's on the battlefield before the red army has t-34 but never that panzer III > t-34, that's just what you keep spamming all day ::)
btw:
[...]I really wonder how he'll feel when 60 Hummel blow up
his base.
a single PE player can do that already destroying his own hummels and recovering them with a bergetiger. and nobody suggested removing the limit on hummels or kingtigers etc. it was just said that hummels should be back on 3 and some people discussed remoing the limit on airborne, fallschirmjaegers and hetzers (units which didn't have a limit in vcoh).
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First of all, I fully agree with everything Ghost said in his last post.
Second: Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK the DEVs implemented the limit to prevent AI spamming call-in-units.
However, every time I play a skirmish against CPU, the AI actually DOES spam call-in-units. For example, if I cut him off his resource-points and my tanks are nearly near his HQ, stupid AI calls in endless Stalinorgels, drive them towards my tanks, communist vehicle is blown up, but soon another one arrives.
Therefore I think the hard-cap isn't a valid solution to stop stupid AI building a useless vehicle one after another.
This leads me to the question: Why are the limits still in?
If it's for balancing-reasons, I see no problem in keeping them, however it shouldn't be a gamebreaker for certain (valid?) tactics.
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I agree that the limit on Priests and Hummels should be brought back to 3. A pair of Hummels is not that useful - only a light dusting of mediocre artillery (and they're supposed to have 155mm shells, not so?). For the pop cap that they take up it's little more than an annoyance. I don't often play allies, but I don't think the Priests should be considered an equivalent to the Hummel. 105mm vs 155mm? You do the maths...
I think either the third allowed unit be brought back and/or the range of the Hummel extended somewhat. I also reckon Scorched Earth has been unfairly hamstrung by the this arbitrary measure to curb AI spamming, rather than addressing the problems with the AI itself.
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don't forget that priests have overwatch, counter battery fire and creeping barrage.
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Hummels are awesome and don't need a buff.
Creeping barrage is pretty expensive for what it does when you can fire a normal barrage for free. It's pretty good though.
Counter battery really isn't very useful most of the time. It was great when it thought people throwing nades were using artillery back in 2.301 and fired on them. :) Funny glitch, got accused of hacking a lot by nubs lol.
Overwatch, contrary to the general opinion that it just automates something you should be able to do already, is actually very good. The fact that it explodes instantly without warning is useful against good players who have the micro to retreat squads when they see the shells fly in. Instead, their troops simply explode. I normally fire one or two shots to great effect before he retreats and then cancel the overwatch and get pretty much the same cooldown as a regular blast for a better effect. It's also good in close VP games obviously and it's much cooler seeing the airbursts than normal shells.
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don't forget that priests have overwatch, counter battery fire and creeping barrage.
Dont forget that PE have booby traps, cheap shimm flame mines, sector arti and offensive vet.
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don't forget that priests have overwatch, counter battery fire and creeping barrage.
Dont forget that PE have booby traps, cheap shimm flame mines, sector arti and offensive vet.
My statement was comparing hummels to priests, not doctrine to doctirne.
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don't forget that priests have overwatch, counter battery fire and creeping barrage.
Dont forget that PE have booby traps, cheap shimm flame mines, sector arti and offensive vet.
My statement was comparing hummels to priests, not doctrine to doctirne.
And my statement was that you shouldnt compare these 2 units becouse they mean nothing without an army that they support.
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- Yea, I just don't fear the flamethrower like I used to,
anymore.
- Sigh. I guess he wants all cap removed. Guess we got
to make King Tiger / Tiger / JagPanther call ins with no
cap, eh? :)
I really wonder how he'll feel when 60 Hummel blow up
his base.
/signed!
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Done by Akaloner(You nOOb!)
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You shouldn't need that many airborne/AT guns anyway. They are there to support your normal riflemen in an AT role. Giant blobs of airborne aren't a skillful way to play the game.
Anyone should be able to play as it wants to, in my opinion, the more different tactics could be used the better.
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Thanks for resurrecting this long dead thread ::)
I guess if that's the case then I should be able to call as many Tigers as I want? That'll be real fun for my opponent. You need to realise it's a game and games are meant to be fun for ALL the players.
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Thanks for resurrecting this long dead thread ::)
I guess if that's the case then I should be able to call as many Tigers as I want? That'll be real fun for my opponent. You need to realise it's a game and games are meant to be fun for ALL the players.
If you have enough MP, gas & munition points, why not? It means that you have earned it by managing your resourses and strategies to bring on the hammer as soon as you can. Why should a player be penalized for its effective startegies?
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Effective strategies or super efective units? ::)
We're not talking about normal units, they are special units and are strong, hence they're limited.
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Thanks for resurrecting this long dead thread ::)
I guess if that's the case then I should be able to call as many Tigers as I want? That'll be real fun for my opponent. You need to realise it's a game and games are meant to be fun for ALL the players.
If you have enough MP, gas & munition points, why not? It means that you have earned it by managing your resourses and strategies to bring on the hammer as soon as you can. Why should a player be penalized for its effective startegies?
Because too much of anything is a bad thing
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Thanks for resurrecting this long dead thread ::)
I guess if that's the case then I should be able to call as many Tigers as I want? That'll be real fun for my opponent. You need to realise it's a game and games are meant to be fun for ALL the players.
If you have enough MP, gas & munition points, why not? It means that you have earned it by managing your resourses and strategies to bring on the hammer as soon as you can. Why should a player be penalized for its effective startegies?
Because too much of anything is a bad thing
So how much is too much? Who gets to decide what is "too much" for everybody?
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You say the more tactics the better, but having tons of tigers or gazillion rangers don't seem as a good prospect. Tactics involve how do you use what you are given. Because this:
If you have enough MP, gas & munition points, why not? It means that you have earned it by managing your resourses and strategies to bring on the hammer as soon as you can. Why should a player be penalized for its effective startegies?
doesn't exists in CoH. If you have surplus of resources against a decent player the victory is already decided(either in your favor or against).
In either case, call-in units aren't supposed to be spammed. I proceed to lock this thread because this was already discussed and afaik limits for call-in units won't be removed; so there's no value in arguing for something like that.