Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Other discussions (Read-Only) => Eastern Front => Topic started by: EasyWay91 on September 12, 2010, 10:30:10 PM
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England's finest hour! It was their last stand and battle for survival! Here is a question I've been thinking about, why did the Germans lose more planes than the British?
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And here the answer:
1. ) Concentration bombers without fighter support is an absolutly bad idea!
2. ) The moment when Luftwaffe concentrated on London they had lost the battle.
It is so easy to shot down enemy's planes when u know where they are.
3. ) German bombers were tactical bombers with light anti air armament. They werent able to do such a strategic operation like the battle of Britain operation.
All on all just some abstract points about the battle of Britain and germany's defeat.
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Thanks for the info, I thought it was just because the British were better pilots!
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To put it in a nutshell, German High Command got all twisted up and impatient and decided to divert resources from attacking enemy airfields to the British war industry. After that, command thought that bombing London to smithereens would force Churchill to give up. That failed because now the British could use their air bases again.
If the Luftwaffe had kept its focus on the airfields, there would be no Britain today. There would probalbly still be a Nazi Germany today because the US would have no staging ground for a bid at liberating Europe. That would mean Hitler could send almost all of his men to the East. The Soviets, faced with a greater opposing force, probalbly would not hold out. Even if Stalingrad was a Soviet victory, I don't think the Soviets could win the war alone.
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But then all the units would Defeat Japan, And help Russia from there. Or the Lend lease could send troops as way. You can never decide history.
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The US would probably have invaded through Italy or Southern France anyway. Goering was a terrible administrator and didn't focus enough on important technological advancements like jet fighters, missiles and RADAR. He also didn't understand his enemy enough and attacked London instead of airbases or RADAR stations.
The most important part of keeping London was keeping allied spirits high and having a staging ground for strategic bombers. With those constantly targeting German infrastructure, the Soviets were able to win with sheer productivity.
Seeme, if the Germans had invaded Britain they may have siezed vital information about Manhattan and could've built the bomb first. Without London to worry about, they could've focused on trans-continental bombers and targeted the American homeland, something that only happened in the war a tiny bit from Japanese sub attacks (submersible aircraft carriers!). The Americans might have surrendered if their own cities were attacked. Germany was actually developing a bomber that could cross the Atlantic and drop a dirty bomb - bomb that spreads radioactive material everywhere but doesn't have a blastwave - long before the allies had anything comparable. It was strangely similar to the B2 stealth bomber of today.
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The US learned after Torch that it was a terrible idea to invade without a staging ground. The US couldn't just invade willynilly. They also still needed some support from the British, too.
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I will repeat this phase my friend:
You never know what could of happen in history
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I will repeat this phase my friend:
You never know what could of happen in history
But it is still fun debating about it.
Seeme, if the Germans had invaded Britain they may have siezed vital information about Manhattan and could've built the bomb first. Without London to worry about, they could've focused on trans-continental bombers and targeted the American homeland, something that only happened in the war a tiny bit from Japanese sub attacks (submersible aircraft carriers!). The Americans might have surrendered if their own cities were attacked. Germany was actually developing a bomber that could cross the Atlantic and drop a dirty bomb - bomb that spreads radioactive material everywhere but doesn't have a blastwave - long before the allies had anything comparable. It was strangely similar to the B2 stealth bomber of today.
I highly doubt that the British had any real information about the Manhattan project, especially considering that it was one of the most closely guarded secrets of the war.
Even if the Germans invaded England I doubt that they would've focused on America.
Invading Russia was Hitlers whole Idea, the only reason he actually launched Barbarossa was because he thought that the British were as good as beaten.
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England had just as much to do with, if not more than, the Americans with Manhattan. It was a joint allied project.
Even if the Germans invaded England I doubt that they would've focused on America.
This is sort of my point. Without German infrastructure being targeted by British and American strategic bombers they may very well have beaten the Soviet Union anyway. They could also have simply targeted the American homeland with transcontinental bombers without retaliation. Significant forces would not have to be focused on America. Even without nukes, a dirty bomb can cause similar devastation. America may have surrendered as Japan did.
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The Germans had about that fuel to fight about 10 minutes, after that they had to had back to the airbase to refuel. The Brits hadn't to go far wit their planes, so they could stand longer in an air battle. Göring was an idiot.
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England had just as much to do with, if not more than, the Americans with Manhattan. It was a joint allied project.
Even if the Germans invaded England I doubt that they would've focused on America.
This is sort of my point. Without German infrastructure being targeted by British and American strategic bombers they may very well have beaten the Soviet Union anyway. They could also have simply targeted the American homeland with transcontinental bombers without retaliation. Significant forces would not have to be focused on America. Even without nukes, a dirty bomb can cause similar devastation. America may have surrendered as Japan did.
Firstly; England and America didn't pool their resources on nuclear research until '43'
(After the MAUD Committee's report, the British and Americans exchanged nuclear information, but initially did not pool their efforts. A British project, code-named Tube Alloys, was started, but did not have American resources. Consequently the British bargaining position worsened and their motives were mistrusted by the Americans. Collaboration therefore lessened markedly until the Quebec Agreement of August 1943, when a large team of British and Canadian scientists joined the Manhattan Project. (http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Manhattan_Project (http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Manhattan_Project)) )
In 1941 the Germans did not yet have anything the likes of transcontinental bombers, besides the battle of Britain occurred in late 1940, when America was nowhere near entering the war. It took a intentional attack by Japan to bring America into the war.
Would the Germans have defeated Britain in 1940 they may have persuaded the Japanese from attacking the United States (they were allies after all) and instead gave them the oil and rubber that Britain controlled in Asia, taking away the need
for Japan to attack America, and allowing a multi front war with Russia.
I highly doubt Russia would have been able to defend two large fronts.
The Germans had about that fuel to fight about 10 minutes, after that they had to had back to the airbase to refuel. The Brits hadn't to go far wit their planes, so they could stand longer in an air battle. Göring was an idiot.
Dennis said it upwards, the fuel wasn't their biggest problem. They should have spent more resources taking out the RADAR installations, without them the Brits wouldn't have advance warning, so their planes would not be in attack position by the time the Germans attacked. Also unfortunately it was Hitler's decision to bomb London ( and other British cities) in retaliation for the British bombing Berlin first, (04/09/1940 Hitler threatens that British cities will be bombed night after night in reprisal for the bombing of Berlin. source; http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-in-europe/european-air-war/european-air-war-index-1940.htm (http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-in-europe/european-air-war/european-air-war-index-1940.htm)), up until then the luftwaffe targeted only airfields. Hitler tried to play General even though he was only a corporal in WW1. Sadly this is the reason behind most of the German defeats in WW2.
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The Germans had about that fuel to fight about 10 minutes, after that they had to had back to the airbase to refuel. The Brits hadn't to go far wit their planes, so they could stand longer in an air battle. Göring was an idiot.
Dennis said it upwards, the fuel wasn't their biggest problem. They should have spent more resources taking out the RADAR installations, without them the Brits wouldn't have advance warning, so their planes would not be in attack position by the time the Germans attacked. Also unfortunately it was Hitler's decision to bomb London ( and other British cities) in retaliation for the British bombing Berlin first, (04/09/1940 Hitler threatens that British cities will be bombed night after night in reprisal for the bombing of Berlin. source; http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-in-europe/european-air-war/european-air-war-index-1940.htm (http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-in-europe/european-air-war/european-air-war-index-1940.htm)), up until then the luftwaffe targeted only airfields. Hitler tried to play General even though he was only a corporal in WW1. Sadly this is the reason behind most of the German defeats in WW2.
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As far as I know the germans don't knew there was radar insatallations on the shores, and didn't care about it. Anyway, if Hitler continued to fight the British airfield surley they won the war. Hitler was lucky some of a time, and had a big ego. He didn't listened to their commanders.
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Germany knew that they existed and that they were extremely important. They just didn't know exactly WHAT they were. Dive bombers would sometimes take out these sites just before major bombing attacks. Hitler/Goering switched the focus to London later on though which messed everything up, as RADAR stations were quite easy to repair.
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Not if it was bombed to heck. ;D
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To put it in a nutshell, German High Command got all twisted up and impatient and decided to divert resources from attacking enemy airfields to the British war industry.
Some bombs feel on UK civilians first. Churchill asked RAF to bomb Germany in return. Hitler got mad that UK is bombing German cities and ordered to bomb London.
Czech Republic in march 1939 and Netherlands in may 1940 surrendered becouse Hitler threaten to bomb their capital city.
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And Neterlands?
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Why War has to come to the GB?
Why BoB have have the place in hystory?
In 1937-38 British consular send the unnoficial note to the European allies:
"When the war against russia is begin, there can be no war or other help to the russian front."
In 1937-38, Hitler have the official vote in Nazi meeting.
"Allies stupid, if hoping that the war is no way for their countries. I will attack the whole eastern countries, than, all nazi war machine will crush the west."
After "Versal Peace" that the whole political life of German is consentrating in allied hands, weakening of the military control & boundaries ... all that points have the expecting final for the Reichstag.
Soon Chehoslovakia & allied - nazi pact have the place. Pact tall that the western borders of the german is will be safe, in case of german - allied war have no happend. Soon Chehoslovakia is under Nazi control with no ather word of allied politic personal.
29 of may 1939 year. Roosvelt send messege to the massons in France(To the Bullit):
"all actions must be build of that cind, that the war with German must be no evead in europe. USA bring all war machine power to the europe democratic help."
P.S.: At the end of the war, allied countries interest with simple shoot the war criminals, with out the court-marshall. Soviet jurists, build the charges. Base of the churge is statistics, collect in republics, some europe countries, Poland, that makes the contract of that kind with SU in 1940 year. (USSR makes a two sided contracts with Poland, Bolgaria, Ukraina, Romania ect.)
Long length negotiations with USA & GB make it ... court marshall will be justified. BUT, defendants takes to disfranchise.
Poland, France, and then GB is to fall a victim of unadeqate politics & so needed to world, with great, great unfortunately conditions to simple civilian europe population.
FINAL POINT:
Spain civilian war, Battle of Britain, Russian-Finland war(with nazi callback), Battle fo France, takes first blood of unsuspicious people.
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Why War has to come to the GB?
Why BoB have have the place in hystory?
In 1937-38 British consular send the unnoficial note to the European allies:
"When the war against russia is begin, there can be no war or other help to the russian front."
In 1937-38, Hitler have the official vote in Nazi meeting.
"Allies stupid, if hoping that the war is no way for their countries. I will attack the whole eastern countries, than, all nazi war machine will crush the west."
After "Versal Peace" that the whole political life of German is consentrating in allied hands, weakening of the military control & boundaries ... all that points have the expecting final for the Reichstag.
Soon Chehoslovakia & allied - nazi pact have the place. Pact tall that the western borders of the german is will be safe, in case of german - allied war have no happend. Soon Chehoslovakia is under Nazi control with no ather word of allied politic personal.
29 of may 1939 year. Roosvelt send messege to the massons in France(To the Bullit):
"all actions must be build of that cind, that the war with German must be no evead in europe. USA bring all war machine power to the europe democratic help."
P.S.: At the end of the war, allied countries interest with simple shoot the war criminals, with out the court-marshall. Soviet jurists, build the charges. Base of the churge is statistics, collect in republics, some europe countries, Poland, that makes the contract of that kind with SU in 1940 year. (USSR makes a two sided contracts with Poland, Bolgaria, Ukraina, Romania ect.)
Long length negotiations with USA & GB make it ... court marshall will be justified. BUT, defendants takes to disfranchise.
Poland, France, and then GB is to fall a victim of unadeqate politics & so needed to world, with great, great unfortunately conditions to simple civilian europe population.
FINAL POINT:
Spain civilian war, Battle of Britain, Russian-Finland war(with nazi callback), Battle fo France, takes first blood of unsuspicious people.
what the hell does this have to do with battle of britain..
the only thing you worry about is your precious mother russia, and that everybody hears about how great it is..
damn, and you're really brainwashed, try to see things from our side and not only from stalin's side.. he might be wrong you know..
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Some say, If you hear the Soviet National Anthem on U-Tube 5 times in a row, you get brainwashed. How much times has this person heard it, 20?
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Some say, If you hear the Soviet National Anthem on U-Tube 5 times in a row, you get brainwashed. How much times has this person heard it, 20?
I believe that he is full to the throat with nutricious red commie blood :-X
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Some say, If you hear the Soviet National Anthem on U-Tube 5 times in a row, you get brainwashed. How much times has this person heard it, 20?
I've heard it 6. :D
I must say, i personally think the Battle of Britain Should've been called the "Battle Over Britain" as it was Fought by theCommonwealth, such as the ANAFC, the Polish, French and South Africans ;)
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Battles are usually named after where they took place, so 'Battle of Britain' is entirely appropriate.
But after reading this book, it seems that there are lots of myths that surround the battle:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Invasion-1940-Derek-Robinson/dp/1845294416 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Invasion-1940-Derek-Robinson/dp/1845294416)
In a nutshell, even if the RAF had taken an even worse hammering, the Royal Navy and the British Army could have defeated the invasion on their own.
Some perspective. In British waters (not counting vessels on convoy duty or around the world) the RN had 80 Destroyers. The entire German Navy only had 8. The Germans also were forced to use small numbers of totally unsuitable boats for their planned invasion. If they had tried it in 1940 the channel would have been clogged with dead Wermacht soldiers and sinking invasion barges.
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what the hell does this have to do with battle of britain..
the only thing you worry about is your precious mother russia, and that everybody hears about how great it is..
damn, and you're really brainwashed, try to see things from our side and not only from stalin's side.. he might be wrong you know..
WTF???
Everyone cares mostly for his "mother-[insert required country name]", and there's nothing wrong with it.
He seemed to be talking about hypocrisy and overall evilness of "western" leaders of the time. - I couldn't agree more. And that's not because soviet leaders were any better, but merely due to the fact, that somehow you, people never really "try to see things from our side and not only from [some shitty Churchill - he was full of shit IMO] side" 'cause "Stalin" might be not the only man to definitely be wrong.
But the hypocrisy always wins: today we hear lots of hails to the US, which was the only country to use atomic weapon, and on the top of that, it was used upon absolutely innocent civilian population, while it is widely accepted, that such an atrocity was absolutely unnecessary - the might of the weapon could simply be shown to the japanese at the testing ground. BTW, it was the only "democratic" country (not authoritarian) to actually have legal segregation up until 1970s!
EDIT: Sorry for the off-topic, this was just too much for me to let go.
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looks like this topic has risen from a grave...