Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Suggestions => Topic started by: Venoxxis on January 05, 2011, 04:17:09 PM
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Hey again folks,
this thread is about the heaviest unit in the game, which doenst feels like the heaviest yet, even because of its awesome (:o) model!
The main problem about its feeling, is its way too fast spining-around-speed. Its spining even faster than it can drive, which looks extremely unrealistic and takes the tank heavy wight away. You dont have to read the next passage to get an idea of what i mean.
(And indeed this is unrealistic: Since the tanks max. velocity Vt straight max (-intertia force [m*a] and - force of friction [2*1/2*mg*µ]) can never be the same as its spining speed (this speed is reached with the highest gear). The spining around speed being Vspin= r*ω. But this speed is not reached with the highest gear, because a tank which is spining around on the spot is usually using the 1st gear on the left track and the 1st reverse gear on the right. (in this example the tank is turning to the right).
That makes a superb high speed because we got 2 tracks turning in oppesed directions? nope. Since we got a 70t tank. ->the tank got a huge moment of inertia 'J*α'.
So we got ω=α*t. With α being a fuction of the wight, the friction, the moment of interia, and the power of the motor. (α=F(m,Fn,µ,J,P)). The actually speed is Vspin=r*ω.
-> it always will be: Vt straight max > Vspin)
Even if you dont uderstanding anything of what i explained above, you should know that this is unrealistic ;) !
I guess a balance issue was the reason for this uberturning speed. And indeed, players which are circuiting the jagdtiger got a easy run than, especially with infantry. But i guess thats okay, since a vehicle like the jagdtiger shouldnt be send all alone to the front. As a counter action you could give it a quite good area of effect against infantry, which would be pretty realistic as well since it had a 128mm shell.
Like in this old vid:(watch from 3:50 on)
Eastern Front Maps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCCjCiaCWU0#)
(maybe its a bit too much here, but its just about the idea)
The idea is having a extremly unmobile vehicle, with a realistic turning speed and a very powerfull shot. The shots effect should be somewhere between tiger an pershing, but still having pretty bad accurancy compared to those. The main idea is the big explosion on the ground, which should give the player a idea of what gun he has on its tank. (ISU got compareable probs, but that should be fixxed in the new patch with its new fuction of which i heared). This idea here could solve the Jagdtigers problem.
Also to stay loyally to the wehrmacht a fliedgray skin would rock our sucks off. (themed compareable as the kingtigers)
Regards,
-V-
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I agree about the skin :D! Also, a bit offtopic but PE's jagdpanzer should get a new skin as well :).
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Oh God no, not physics here! :P
The new ISU shot is cool. I'd like to see it on the Jagdtiger with turnrate slowed. I would also like to see a return to grey for all western wehrmacht units and leave the camo units for the ostheer.
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Feldgrey Ostheer ftw!
Hopefully the Jagdpanzer/tiger get the vanilla grey skins too.
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Personally i would rather want the Production turrent KT (henschel turrent) as reward unit for the normal KT. The Jagdpazer design type of units are more a PE thing and feels less wehrmacht.
About the skin talk, i think that all vanilla reward units should have vanilla alike skins even if this means downgrade from cool camo scheme to booring stereotypical dunkelgrau.
and leave the camo units for the ostheer.
+1 Listen to tha dawg
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Personally i would rather want the Production turrent KT (henchel turrent) as reward unit for the normal KT
Whats the point?
It will have a different turret but it will be the same. ???
Stat changes should be noticable. Thats the whole point of reward units.
and leave the camo units for the ostheer.
+1 Listen to tha dawg
+1
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Personally i would rather want the Production turrent KT (henchel turrent) as reward unit for the normal KT
Whats the point?
It will have a different turret but it will be the same. ???
Stat changes should be noticable. Thats the whole point of reward units.
+1
Paciat is right about that yea. The only reason why relic took the old design is because it looks more future oriented. Feelable stat changes are a must have for reward units, yea.
God damn im so happy to see other guys getting that point about the skins. Respecting this relic design for the axis units will give us the feeling to play the 3rd official add-on to the series. And this is right what EF goes for. GG!
Feldgrey Ostheer ftw!
Hopefully the Jagdpanzer/tiger get the vanilla grey skins too.
Yea. Also the Jagdpanzer IV looks right now like a tank simply not fitting into the PE. fieldgray for the world!
Regards
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Yea. Also the Jagdpanzer IV looks right now like a tank simply not fitting into the PE. fieldgray for the world!
All the times ive used it looks like the turret seems to be... seperated and doesnt look to good hopefully fixed eventually (In other words ive barely noticed the skin problem over the model issue)
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Whats the point?
It will have a different turret but it will be the same. ???
Stat changes should be noticable. Thats the whole point of reward units.
The Henschel Turrented KingTiger is just wicked and suits the Wehr unittable. Statwise it could work out the same way as the Hetzer & Jagdpanzer IV, no roof MG and more tank destroyer focused. The Jagdtiger model is awesome, but the Jagdpanzer type of tanks are more a PE thing imo. Wehrmacht didnt need another new fancy heavy TD.
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Whats the point?
It will have a different turret but it will be the same. ???
Stat changes should be noticable. Thats the whole point of reward units.
The Henchell Turrented KingTiger is just wicked and suits the Wehr unittable. Statwise it could work out the same way as the Hetzer & Jagdpanzer IV, no roof MG and more tank destroyer focused. The Jagdtiger model is awesome, but the Jagdpanzer type of tanks are more a PE thing imo. Wehrmacht didnt need another new fancy heavy TD.
Honestly, I don't think devs agree to replace the jagdtiger for the King Tiger w/ Henshell turret. Imo it's fine.
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The Henchell Turrented KingTiger is just wicked and suits the Wehr unittable.
Snug got it and thats all! Replacing it isnt sensefull just as blackbiship mentioned as well.
[...] The Jagdtiger model is awesome, but the Jagdpanzer type of tanks are more a PE thing imo. Wehrmacht didnt need another new fancy heavy TD.
Well now this is really true. By the way, the Jagdtiger would make a pretty awesome reward for the jadgpather. PE Jagdtiger ftw!
Travelling through the relics forums, i figured out that there are masses of CoH player which just want one unit as a reward for the King tiger: The "Tiger Ace". The "Tiger Ace" was the erstwhile tank of the terror doctrine, which has been replaced by the KT with CoH: opposing fronts. CoH veterans may remember, it was basically a more usefull tiger tank. (For more info: http://planetcoh.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Units.Detail&id=15 (http://planetcoh.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Units.Detail&id=15))
The interesting thing is, that most CoH players prefered it over the compareable slow KT. Have a look at this poll: http://www.gamereplays.org/community/Tiger_Ace_vs_King_Tiger-t349037.html (http://www.gamereplays.org/community/Tiger_Ace_vs_King_Tiger-t349037.html)
Bringing this unit back as a reward would simple raise the mods popularity in incredible highs. Especially CoH veterans would love that.
Not even talking about the skin it could use, which the whole relic forums just loves :D
(http://media.moddb.com/images/downloads/1/15/14401/relic00174.jpg)
They even made a model of it xD
(http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t327/apfster/2008_09_06assembled004_sm.jpg)
the whole thread here: http://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=122842&page=1 (http://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=122842&page=1)
Regards,
-V-
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This is amazing!!! I forgot the Tiger Ace!!! shame on me :(. I think this should be considerated.
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I WANNA TIGER ACE BACK!
Seriously, that's a shame on Relic that they removed one of the most characteristic and charismatic weapon.
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I'd love to see that again. ;D
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I'd vote for the Tiger Ace too if it also included the ToV accessories. No point in just adding a Tiger with a different skin (even my own personal skinpack has the black ace skin already) if there's no significant changes cosmetically to differentiate the Tiger Ace from the normal Tigers.
On the issue of fieldgrey vs camo, I have always personally felt that WWII was the last modern war ever to be fought with soldiers NOT wearing camo. Nowadays everyone and their mom wears camo, and I just think its overrated and un-traditional.
Can you honestly tell the difference between 2 army's uniforms these days? No army has a distinct traditional color anymore! Sure there's different types of camo, but who cares, there's no tradition behind them, whereas the stahlhelm along with fieldgrey made the Germans look distinct. The stahlhelm and fieldgrey just makes you think "kraut!" right away once you look at them, whereas you just don't get that feeling with the camo.
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I would love to see the black ace, even if that was the only real difference. It looks deadly. But camo vs. grey, I completely agree with chancellor.
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I'd vote for the Tiger Ace too if it also included the ToV accessories. No point in just adding a Tiger with a different skin (even my own personal skinpack has the black ace skin already) if there's no significant changes cosmetically to differentiate the Tiger Ace from the normal Tigers.
On the issue of fieldgrey vs camo, I have always personally felt that WWII was the last modern war ever to be fought with soldiers NOT wearing camo. Nowadays everyone and their mom wears camo, and I just think its overrated and un-traditional.
Can you honestly tell the difference between 2 army's uniforms these days? No army has a distinct traditional color anymore! Sure there's different types of camo, but who cares, there's no tradition behind them, whereas the stahlhelm along with fieldgrey made the Germans look distinct. The stahlhelm and fieldgrey just makes you think "kraut!" right away once you look at them, whereas you just don't get that feeling with the camo.
Quoted, so people don't miss out on the opinion rant, since this was the last post of the 1st page.
Finally, to add on to the post above, with camo, it looks like your troops came out of forest huts or something, whereas fieldgrey fits in perfectly with the "war machine" feel.
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Chancellor really got the point. Thanks for quoting it youself, otherwise i would have done it ;) - Read his post guys, this is the reason for the feeling we like so much about CoH and the incredible importance of fieldgray skins!
I would love to see the black ace, even if that was the only real difference. It looks deadly. But camo vs. grey, I completely agree with chancellor.
A return of the "Tiger Ace" in form of the sp black tiger ace is really a badass idea. Even if we are going offtopic now, since this idea is supported so much by the forum users, i guess its okay that we go on like that!
In general:
-> Jagdtiger goes to PE as a jagdpather reward (more armour but slower, fixed tank-gun fits better into the PE !)
-> the new reward for the kingtiger is the old favoured tiger ace!
Rergards
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In general:
-> Jagdtiger goes to PE as a jagdpather reward (more armour but slower, fixed tank-gun fits better into the PE !)
-> the new reward for the kingtiger is the old favoured tiger ace!
+1
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-> Jagdtiger goes to PE as a jagdpather reward (more armour but slower, fixed tank-gun fits better into the PE !)
No, overgrown slow units fit Wehrmacht Terror better.
PE is Tunk Hunter not Tank Bunker.
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-> Jagdtiger goes to PE as a jagdpather reward (more armour but slower, fixed tank-gun fits better into the PE !)
No, overgrown slow units fit Wehrmacht Terror better.
PE is Tunk Hunter not Tank Bunker.
Thats it paciat. But terror was orgnially not slow and overgrown, it had [...] one of the most characteristic and charismatic weapon
in the game! The Tiger ace was the true terror of the wehrmacht. Slowmotion was brought by the kingtiger, not the terror doctrine. A comeback of this weapon would cause a stir in the whole CoH-fanbase.
Regards
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+1.
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lets throw some information in here:
Tiger & Tiger Ace
Tiger
Hit points: 1064
PopCap Modifier: 14
Acceleration: 2
Deceleration: 4
Rotation Speed: 23
Max Speed: 4
Turret Rotation Speed: 19
Turret Vertical Speed: 10
Veterancy:
1st Received Damage 0.85
2nd Maximum Health 1.15 (1224 hit points)
3rd Received Penetration 0.75
Tiger Ace:
Hit points: 1500
PopCap Modifier: 16
Acceleration: 2.2
Deceleration: 4
Rotation Speed: 30
Max Speed: 5.5
Turret Rotation Speed: 19
Turret Vertical Speed: 10
Veterancy:
No veterancy
+ slity better penetration (Distant: 0.835 | Long: 0.835 | Medium: 0.92)
+ better area of damage, making it a brute weapen against inf. (no stats found :( )
As you can see, the main difference between both vehicles is the speed. The ace has simply a great speed advantage, which gave it the ability to circuit walls of paks. Its gun made the rest.
Another interesting fact is, that a vet 3 tiger has almost better vital stats, because of its "received modifiers". But i guess thats okay, since the advantages of the ace are really very usefull. But an ace with vet would be interesting as well.. but it would need worse base stats than!
Regards
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.... but Tiger Ace had most awesome vocal ever!
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I would agree too with the traditional gray for tanks and uniforms and with the idea of the tiger ace.
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How about the switch on installation:
* Use vCoH textures (means grey jagdpz4 and jagdtiger and all else)
or
* Use historical textures (means historical camo for every tank - even for vanilla ones)
You can choose one on install and swap them after install by copying over official texture packs?
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Imo the jagdpanzer IV and the jagdtiger skins didn't fit with Wehr or PE style and perhaphs could be changed, even if that won't happen we could live with that; but I don't think devs are gonna change the skins of all vanilla units to historical ones.
Btw, EF devs started to discuss about the tiger Ace on EF.
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actually the germans pioneered camo way back in WW1
sorry to bust your bubble
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Btw, EF devs started to discuss about the tiger Ace on EF.
Hell yea. Give CoH back what terror was once and impress the CoH community with a stunner like no mod else could ever come up to.
Here we got a pretty good comparison between the KT and the Ace. Being a experienced allied player, he learned how to work with a kingtiger (in general: ignore it at first). But the ace once, brought real terror in just as his doctrine is ment to do.
[...] ''Tiger Ace vs King Tiger'' - theres one major difference between them ( its a whole goddamn sentence - sorry for that ).
KT - it rolls in at 9 CPs, its utter garbage vs infantry and infantry based AT weaponry ( rangers, paratroopers, PIATs), its being torn up by british ( 17 pounders, Fireflies ) and finally - its superior to any tank in the game but the one i mentioned ( Firefly ). Now honestly when the KT comes out ive got more things to worry about ( vet 3 gren spam, mortars, MGs ) so when i see the KT rolling in i simply ignore it ( riflemen/tommies cap points next to it with the KT helplessly trying to kill them ) until i get some sort of AT weaponry. When i do i use my infantry to chase off the KTs support troops and proceed to wrecking the KT itself.
Tiger Ace - came at 8 CPs afaik. It owned infantry, it also owned tanks due to it being the best tank in the game in 1.71. I wouldnt/couldnt ignore the Ace like i can the KT due to the simple fact that the KT cant hit my infantry while the Ace would one shot my squad... Challange coming out of sheer presence of the Ace being on the field was enough for me to eye roll the whole map looking for the red triangle in case the Ace would be used for harassing/flanking manuveurs. The Ace was what made terror doctrine unique - Aces speed made it deadly, its damage output was enough to bring infantry aswell as tanks down. It was also balanced since the Ace costed 1k manpower to call in.
[...]
Damn i really would like to face skilled players with it just for the experience ;D
Regards
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Hmmm.... so I wonder if it could be possible to make Tiger Ace reward for KT. Jagdpanther is rather impractical, and there is nothing terryfing in this 70-tonne monster.
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Hmmm.... so I wonder if it could be possible to make Tiger Ace reward for KT. Jagdpanther is rather impractical, and there is nothing terryfing in this 70-tonne monster.
No doubt its possible the model and animations are already within the game ntm voice files and the Jagdtiger can be moved to a reward unit for the JagdPanther an exchange of speed, maneuverability and powerful gun for lower speed, more health and better gun. (I'd stick with Jagdpanther however :P)
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[...] there is nothing terryfing in this 70-tonne monster.
not yet thats true, that s why i orignially opened that thread as well. But a nice splash-damage and a badass skin should solve that problem.
^ and yea, raider is right, it would make a good reward for the jagdpanther.
Regards
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it would be really hard to disagree with you guys. Jagdtiger for Jagdpanther sounds great.
+1 for easily solved problem ;)
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Tiger Ace as Reward unit for KT
Jagdtiger as reward unit for Jagdpanther
+1
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+1
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Tiger Ace as Reward unit for KT
Jagdtiger as reward unit for Jagdpanther
+1
+1
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Personally i would rather want the Production turrent KT (henchel turrent) as reward unit for the normal KT
Whats the point?
It will have a different turret but it will be the same. ???
Stat changes should be noticable. Thats the whole point of reward units.
The Henchel turret had better armour thickness than the porche turret so if the henchel turret was added as a reward unit the stats changes would just be more health for the KT or something. Also I'm in favor of making both the tiger ace and the henchel turret reward units of the KT but I expect the Dev's to only do one of them.
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That poll was made just after OF came out I believe and everyone was very unhappy with the expansion so there was animosity toward the KT by default. I like the thing now. I actually think the elite type units should go to Blitz, to go with the Stormtrooper/Waffen SS theme and terror should stick with the experimental units.
Personally, I would give the KT slightly more AI (equiv. to P4) and give the Jagdtiger the new ISU shot but keep it where it is. Give the Black Tiger ace to Blitz with the old ace stats since it was awesome and fits with the fast moving Blitz style. Leave standard buildable Tigers (with reduced AoE splash) for the Ostheer. Once the OH is out, Blitz will need something to stand apart and be an attractive choice over the OH.
Whatever happens, the Black Tiger ace must make a return somehow.
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I could live with that. I think you have a very good idea. ;D
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That poll was made just after OF came out I believe and everyone was very unhappy with the expansion so there was animosity toward the KT by default. I like the thing now. I actually think the elite type units should go to Blitz, to go with the Stormtrooper/Waffen SS theme and terror should stick with the experimental units.
Personally, I would give the KT slightly more AI (equiv. to P4) and give the Jagdtiger the new ISU shot but keep it where it is. Give the Black Tiger ace to Blitz with the old ace stats since it was awesome and fits with the fast moving Blitz style. Leave standard buildable Tigers (with reduced AoE splash) for the Ostheer. Once the OH is out, Blitz will need something to stand apart and be an attractive choice over the OH.
Whatever happens, the Black Tiger ace must make a return somehow.
lol!... BurroDiablo!!! did you read this!? :P.
I like that idea. however the only problem about it, is that will modify Wehr faction, going against EF's policy of no chaning anything from CoH (besides the balance). So, the only choice looking from that point is replacing the King tiger with the Tiger Ace and the Jagdpanther with the Jagdtiger.
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Yeah, I did... no comment... :-X ;)
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it modifies the existing faction too much. EF should stay an high quality expansion and no usual mod. I dont think you are that kind of "we make it better than the game-developers no matter what we do"-modders. I've seen many many mods fail like that. But i guess you wont do the same mistake after what you did so far, 'cause you seem pretty seasoned for me.
[...] that will modify Wehr faction, going against EF's policy of no chaning anything from CoH (besides the balance). So, the only choice looking from that point is replacing the King tiger with the Tiger Ace and the Jagdpanther with the Jagdtiger.
Yea relic faction should stay as they are. btw great balance fixes, relics next balance-patch is right the same xD but you guys were faster :P
Adding an old vehicle which was orignially in the game and very popular, would make a
1) addon, no certain change for the existing factions
2) expasion, which relic should have done on their own, to satisfy the coh-fanbase
Regards,
-V-
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remarkable how easy it is to image this getting its own patch as "Return of the Black Tiger" :P
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The no/minimal change policy went out the window with the reward units that already modify the factions. I would argue that by adding in the Ostheer with buildable Tigers, it changes the vCoH factions by making Blitz far less attractive. The only reason to choose it realistically would be stormtroopers. Everything else holds little or no value compared to the other outstanding Wehr doctrines.
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[...] I would argue that by adding in the Ostheer with buildable Tigers, it changes the vCoH factions by making Blitz far less attractive. [...]
There has been a Lot of discussions about that already. Atm its high likely that the Tiger wont make it straight into the panzerhall of the ostheer. There been a lot of good suggestions about that to keep it out of the usual heer. For sure it will be limited, also its high likely that it will stay doctrinal. To keep the blitz tiger unique, the Ostheertiger wont have or wont have the same veterancy as the blitz-tiger. In general: it will be a weaker tiger, speaking about staying power.
[...] The only reason to choose it realistically would be stormtroopers. Everything else holds little or no value compared to the other outstanding Wehr doctrines.
The Blitz is the most-popular wehrmacht doctrine at the moment. The Blitz doesnt have only the tiger, it has stormtroopers as you said, the very usefull granade ability, the manpower boost, and the scary blitzkrieg ability shouldnt be forgotten ;)
The defensive doctrine aways been the worst in most eyes.
Lets have a look at this poll from CoH:O. Taking into account, that the tiger has been weakened to hell in CoH Online, and got taken into a group of weaker tanks which most players actually really dont like!
(http://[url=http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5050/5229697428_3efdc22ec7.jpg]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5050/5229697428_3efdc22ec7.jpg[/url])
Strange thing happened: they still love the blitz most. Blitz isnt just about the tiger, it has many usefull abilities which work perfectly with eachother.
The Tiger ace would be a reward unit which was once in the game. A unit created by relic, just readded because the players loved it.
Regards
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So to sum up: you want to replace ordinary Blitz Tiger I ( who gets vet) with Tiger Ace ( who's faster, more powerful and has awesome looking but doesn't get vet)?
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@cephalos: yes
@Venoxxis:
CoH:O is a completely different game with different abilites. It doesn't enter the discussion. As for Blitz being popular, this might be true for low level games but higher level automatches see far fewer Blitz players, the vast majority favouring terror. Most Blitz games are played against the brits to make use of double shreked stormie squads to bust defenses.
Blitzkrieg is a terrible ability, the fire rate being offset by the lost accuracy. For 150 munitions I would rather buy 2 shreks in the lategame.
Manpower Blitz also sucks. 150 munitions for some instant manpower but a manpower drain is not a good deal in the long run.
Assault grenades are expensive and easily retreated from, wasting 50 munitions. The stun effect is a massive gimmick and it's disgraceful how Relic changed this ability.
StuHs are usually crap and only perfect hits do any real damage. Unless you have the time to micro every shot they suck.
Tell me, have you ever seen someone go Blitz in a tourney final?
Anyway, that's just my thoughts. This thread is on the Jagdtiger not Blitz.
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So to sum up: you want to replace ordinary Blitz Tiger I ( who gets vet) with Tiger Ace ( who's faster, more powerful and has awesome looking but doesn't get vet)?
No, please read the thread, replacing the Tiger by the tiger ace would indeed be a unfair reward. The Tiger Ace belongs to the terror doctrine. And it would make a fantastic reward for the kingtiger. Have a look at the Terror doctrine, it still displays the Tiger Ace ;) Maybe you didnt know that, but in earlier days there was no kingtiger, there was only a tiger ace at the terror doctrine!
(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/411/terrordoc.jpg)
@Venoxxis:
[...]
Tell me, have you ever seen someone go Blitz in a tourney final?
[...]
Lets have a look at the mass. The mass has other priorities than pro gamers. Also newbies gotta be respected in polls like that, just like eastern front respects the new players, even those which got trouble fighting the easy AI. And that is the only right way.
Regards!
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@GodlikeDennis
I'm almost sure that will be done as Venoxis said... unless a miracle occurs.
King Tiger -> Tiger Ace
Jagdpanther -> Jagdtiger (not confirmed yet but an obvious choice).
That is, because unlike reward units, that you can choose to use or not, the Tiger Ace is intended to replace the normal Tiger. While I agree about BK doctrine and that no one would care if the normal tiger is replaced for the Tiger Ace with cost increased(i mean, they won't care for the normal tiger, not talking about the decision to not put it on Terror). Imo, in the future there won't be much incentive to go Blitz. Why would you go to Blitz if Terror has a better Tiger?
It's not about to just listen the masses, also is needed to check if it could fit and what repercussions will have, because as you said, many of them are noobs and if we listen completely to the masses... however, it's not like my opinion will make a difference, EF policy still applies and looks like the Ace will be the reward unit for the KT.
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I vote for
Tiger Ace -> KT
Jagdtiger -> Jagdpanther
As long as the Tiger Ace is a one time call-in like the KT, blitz still has some appeal due to unlimited call-ins.
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Yup, will be one time call-in, like in the past ;).
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Yup, will be one time call-in, like in the past ;).
But it wasn't.
At least I seem to recall that Pre-OF the Tiger Ace had a unit cap of 1 and a cost of 1000mp. But you were able to call it multiple times (If memory serves me right). One time call ins only appeared with OF and that was also when the Tiger Ace was replaced.
And that is why I'd suggest you abstain from the one time call in with little up front cost and "interest" over time, IIRC no one ever complained about the Tiger Ace's cost and "recallability" so I'd suggest you keep it that way.
Edit: I can't find anything to back that claim up so I guess I mistook that.
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Well, a friend of mine has a vCoH dvd, i could borrow it and install it if you want yo be sure, because honestly i don't remember either :P.
I guess is just one call-in unit because is stronger than normal tiger. I'll upload the screenshot later.
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I have one too but I don't think I care that much to try it out ;)
I know it's performance was roughly on par with a vet 3 Tiger, but given that you could (back then) have two Blitz Tigers the choice was often in favor of the latter.
So I don't know if the Tiger Ace is that powerful (any longer) that it needs to be single call-in but I guess it's better to begin with a underpowered unit rather than a overpowered one.
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Yeah, sounds like the Tiger Ace was able to be at the field one unit at any time, since the hard caps to heavier call-in tanks were put on OF.
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Yes, the Tiger ace was 1000mp and one on the field at a time but recallable. It also didn't have the black skin from the campaign I don't think, it actually had a dark grey/greenish skin. At the time Blitz Tigers were available at 2 at once which made it far more popular. As it stands, the only reason to go Blitz now will be the stormtroopers. Terror now has everything anyone could ever want.
As for the Jagdtiger, it also fits as a replacement for the jagdpanther, being slower but more powerful. This is fine but serious thought needs to be put into making Blitz an interesting choice when it is already underused compared to the other two doctrines. Terror is all round amazing and defensive has the best 1cp ability in the game in FTFL and also has advanced warning and registered arty, all excellent early powers. Blitz has stormtroopers, that's it.
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Yeah, sounds like the Tiger Ace was able to be at the field one unit at any time, since the hard caps to heavier call-in tanks were put on OF.
I still think the ace should be capped to one in the game. In general, calling it in should be just expensive as a kingtiger.
It should be just like a kingtiger, this way the blitz leaves less appeal as GodlikeDennis mentioned. The Ace should differ as much as possible from the blitz tiger.
Regards
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For the Tiger Ace just make it strong, and make it a one time deal like the KT; that's it.
Don't forget to implement the black skin along with Schultz as the commander.
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I vote for the vanilla Tiger Ace because I don't like the singe time call-in all that much. Given it's high cost I also don't think that there's such a problem with its recallability. Also, I think it is far more terrifying that such a powerful tank might make a return instead of just destroying it and be done for it. (It's still "only" a vet 3 Tiger, so it's not like its invincible)
OTOH I have to agree with GodlikeDennis that Blitz will have a real problem selling itself. Back then it was 2 Blitz Tigers vs 1 Terror Tiger, which didn't go so well. So I think returning the 2nd Blitz Tiger isn't an option. I also think that returning the Sturmtruppen squads that came with each called in tank isn't a solution either. Perhaps a reward unit for the StuH to see how that works out? Brummbär? (Is that even a legitimate proposition?)
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Imo will be unfair if the ace could be called more than once.
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+1 for the idea of making Jagdtiger a reward unit for the Jagdpanther, honestly i thought it would be that way when it was introduced.
Anyway, now for the Tiger Ace i tend to disagree...it would sure make the Blitz even less more attractive. I played around patch 1.5 and back then it was quite different...you could call in 2 Tigers as Blitz and only one as Terror. So it was a hard decision to make, however i mostly went for the Blitz then. Nowadays when you could only call one-at-a-time for Blitz its a different story. I propose another solution, which already appeared in this thread earlier - make a Tiger II (King Tiger) with production turret (Henschel turret) a reward unit for the King Tiger with Porsche turret. No change in stats just a visual change same as with the Tiger 205 reward unit. And the grand-reappearance of Tiger Ace should be on the Eastern Front comrades! Yes the Ostheer should have it instead, i mean wasnt that Hauptman Voss and/or Oberst Schultz portraited as Michael Wittman? And where Michael Wittman gained his reputation...ofcourse on Eastern Front (its even said in the intro of the Tiger Ace campaing in ToV) where he started as Stug III commander and then he gained his Tiger and became a tank legend.
So lets summarize it:
- Terror can gain a powerful King Tiger with Henschel turret reward unit, which is more historically accurate (and i personally think cooler), anyways it will keep with the current concept of Terror doctrine - psychological abuse and spreading fear.
- Ostheer on the other hand can gain the great call-in Tiger, not just another ordinary Tiger I and/or buildable one, it could be the (in)famous Tiger Ace, which many players would like to see again (including me as well). Ostheer design isnt finished yet, based on what Lord Rommel stated, so i think it wouldnt be much of a problem to fit it in some doctrine. And lastly it could bring some more players to EF which would want to see Tiger Ace again, because frankly if i recall right its not in any other mod around.
- And most importantly it will keep with the EF policy of not changing vanilla factions in any (drastic) way.
So fellow comrades what do you think? ;)
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If the ace goes to ostheer, I will choose ostheer instead of wehr-BK any day, and also will make BK less attractive :-X.
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If the ace goes to ostheer, I will choose ostheer instead of wehr-BK any day, and also will make BK less attractive :-X.
Well thats great, because many players will choose that as well, which means more players for Ostheer - more players for EF - one big win. ;)
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I'm not too fond of making Blitzkrieg doctrine being underused :-\. Lets hope the devs make the right decision :).
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Also, we don't need to add the Henschel turrent KT. Its essentially the same unit.
If you want it instead of the lame Porsche version, just use Halftrack's model in your skinpack.
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?248022-HTs-amp-TDs-3D-Factory-new-custom-models-M5-3inch-AT-Gun (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?248022-HTs-amp-TDs-3D-Factory-new-custom-models-M5-3inch-AT-Gun)
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Yeah if your only idea is to have a KT with a different model replace the current KT then I think that idea is without merit. You think anyone apart from you cares enough whether the KT has a Henschel or a Porsche turret if it doesn't even make any difference gameplay wise? Might es well offer reward units that differ merely in the skin they use. A reward unit should imo at least differ in Performance from the unit it replaces, because if it can't do even that it's just a gimmick.
No, I think the Tiger Ace should, if at all, come back to Terror where it belongs. The only question is how that can be implemented without making Blitz (even more) unattractive.
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Yeah if your only idea is to have a KT with a different model replace the current KT then I think that idea is without merit. You think anyone apart from you cares enough whether the KT has a Henschel or a Porsche turret if it doesn't even make any difference gameplay wise?
I gotta agree with you, that a reward unit has to have some difference. So there is a clear no form me for a reward unit like that. But i gotta support chancellor about this one. He sent me his skinpack, which included the henschel-turret KT as well. First of all i didnt care about it, but than i called it in once. It looks simply kick-ass. I could upload some screens later..
[...] come back to Terror [...]
hell yea!
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2019/newterrorvster.png)
Regards
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@Venoxxis - awesome pic :)
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indeed ;D
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@Venoxxis - awesome pic :)
+10000 :D
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Thank you very much guys! I really enjoyed making it.
The return of this unit in form of the sp_black_ace will be a hype.
Get ready for the AceAct CoH community!
best Regards
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I don't see, what your problem is, guys...
I mean, just download the skin, and use it to your pleasure, really. ::)
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of course you are right, but its not about that skin. The skin would be just an addition ppl here and in the relic forums seem to like as well ;)
Bringing a old pupular unit back is the idea of the tiger ace. With all its advantages and disadvantages over the KT.
Regards
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I don't see, what your problem is, guys...
I mean, just download the skin, and use it to your pleasure, really. ::)
Skins are not compitable with EF multiplayer games
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I don't see, what your problem is, guys...
I mean, just download the skin, and use it to your pleasure, really. ::)
Skins are not compitable with EF multiplayer games
You're absolutely definitely wrong here. This goes only for wrongly inserted skins.
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He's not wrong, mate. My own personal skinpack (the one I shared with you) doesn't work with EF multiplayer. I can never get a dev to help me out with this lol
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He's not wrong, mate. My own personal skinpack (the one I shared with you) doesn't work with EF multiplayer. I can never get a dev to help me out with this lol
Thanks for reminding me about that xD! I was thinking the problem lies on the sga, i mean, if you extract the content on Eastern_Front folder instead of replacing CoH's sga files... just throwing a theory.
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OK thanks man; I'll try that out tonight. You got my skinpack as reference just in case right?
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There are at least 4 skinpacks that I know, which don't conflict with EF in any way.
Basically, unless you're seriously messing up with ebps or sbps, there should be no problem, AFAIK. Though I am by no means a pro.
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OK thanks man; I'll try that out tonight. You got my skinpack as reference just in case right?
yes, I have your skin pack.
There are at least 4 skinpacks that I know, which don't conflict with EF in any way.
Basically, unless you're seriously messing up with ebps or sbps, there should be no problem, AFAIK. Though I am by no means a pro.
You are the first user who say that can use customized skin packs on EF and play against users who don't have them :o. What skin packs do you know that work on EF?
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There are at least 4 skinpacks that I know, which don't conflict with EF in any way.
Basically, unless you're seriously messing up with ebps or sbps, there should be no problem, AFAIK. Though I am by no means a pro.
I would "absolutely definitely" like to see some evidence for that claim.
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OK thanks man; I'll try that out tonight. You got my skinpack as reference just in case right?
yes, I have your skin pack.
There are at least 4 skinpacks that I know, which don't conflict with EF in any way.
Basically, unless you're seriously messing up with ebps or sbps, there should be no problem, AFAIK. Though I am by no means a pro.
You are the first user who say that can use customized skin packs on EF and play against users who don't have them :o. What skin packs do you know that work on EF?
Hellfox's pack for EF
RSP 6.1 pack for EF
GniruH's pack for EF
There was some other, but I must've deleted it from my PC, sorry.
Correct me, if I am horribly wrong here (I well may be, for, as I already said, I am really long way from being a pro in this kind of things). :)
EDIT: BTW, I found a three pages long topic on that issue on the forum. Here's the link http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2107.0 (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2107.0)
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OK thanks man; I'll try that out tonight. You got my skinpack as reference just in case right?
yes, I have your skin pack.
There are at least 4 skinpacks that I know, which don't conflict with EF in any way.
Basically, unless you're seriously messing up with ebps or sbps, there should be no problem, AFAIK. Though I am by no means a pro.
You are the first user who say that can use customized skin packs on EF and play against users who don't have them :o. What skin packs do you know that work on EF?
Hellfox's pack for EF
RSP 6.1 pack for EF
GniruH's pack for EF
There was some other, but I must've deleted it from my PC, sorry.
Correct me, if I am horribly wrong here (I well may be, for, as I already said, I am really long way from being a pro in this kind of things). :)
EDIT: BTW, I found a three pages long topic on that issue on the forum. Here's the link http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2107.0 (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2107.0)
I believe they are talking about CoH Skinpacks not working with EF.
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so i think this is be settled. i can look forward to the Tiger Ace in the Terror Doctrine.
How about the Sturmtiger as a replacement for the Hummel? :D
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As the matter is settled this thread has no reason to be open. If you want to discuss something else i recommend to open a new topic about it ;).