This sounds... OP :oA gun that can fire stubby PzIV shells and counter mortars seems OP too me too.
A gun that can fire stubby PzIV shells and counter mortars seems OP too me too.ISG's cone of fire isn't so big.
Hope that StoormPioneres wont be spamable. It would be great if some army had engiees more expensive than basic rifles.
PAK40? Will it be a copy of a Soviet upgraded gun (ZiS-3)? It shouldnt have a camo ability then.
Pak 36 -> 2 camo shots
Pak 38 -> 1 camo shot
Pak 40 -> no camo shots. :D
Awesome work guys!! Epic update. I just love the 'panzerfusilier' idea. I wanna get them. Any pics of them? :D
Neutral units: Panzer II Ausf. L (aka Luchs), Panzerfusiliers and the Panzerwerfer.-Panzer II: i guess it will be a light tank, maybe like tetrach, simply use another tank or an AT gun against it and it will be useless
Heavy Assault(HA):-Stormpioniers: only effective at close range, use an hmg, snipers or vehicle and they are useless, goliath will surely cost a lot of ammo
Heavy Support(HS):-PaK 40: stronger but also bigger and heavier than pak 38, which means slower ;) simply rush it with infantry or use snipers, mortars
Is the Ostheer faction now playable?
[...]
Hmhm.. with the panzerwerfer being a non-doctrinal art unit.. i really dont know what i should think about that atm. Either it will be rediculous weak to keep the balance, or it will be hardcapped. Or nebelwerfer like?
Sturmpios.. great model and lovely skin. But their ablilites seem to much brit-like for me and still way to similiar to the panzerfusiliers (4man sqaurd, mp40).
these guys should for example have a few things they can always build, like sandbag (and for gods sake no trenches!) and after selecting a doctrine things which fit in the doctrines playstyle.
[...]
Sorry for the always hard criticism, nevertheless a good update. But this buildings concept is expandable.
In general: Be mindful that the ostheers concept isnt too similiar to the soviets.
What we got so far in both: 3 tech buildings, which got 2 ways of updates inside (sure ostheer 's got always a neutral unit and can always choose only one way). There should be some more difference. Im looking foward to the next building now, and the way they obtain vet. I hope we get less similarities than.
Panzerwerfer; Out of my view it is a motorised Nebelwerfer - or better - a motorised rocket thrower. Cant see a reason why such a weapon had to be e.g. only a doctrine unit...
The trenchs; Well. Trenchs are an historical tribute for the eastern front. Most people had just this german tank attacks in mind when they are thinking of eastern front. But it is fact that this "panzer fronts" were just a small part of the hole front line. Heeresgruppe Nord thought a "trench war" from 1941 till 1944. Heeresgruppe Mitte had dug in from 1942 till 1944...So why NOT trenches?
Cant see any problem (and with flame-thrower and molotov cockail they should be easy to clean).
One point i dont understand is your comparison of Ostheer and red army.
Out of my view red army had this "upgrades" for game balance. Ostheer use its unit pool for gameplay, game tactics and game stil. On the paper they look equal but in function and mechanic they are so diffrent.
Panzerwerfer 42 = bye, bye soviet blob. :D Btw, I wouldn't say what's OP or UP until I see it ingame. And blackbishop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectile) !!! Sorry, but that annoyed me, beasides its a neat update! :Dlol... sorry about it, i know was projectile, but in spanish is proyectil(like project -> proyecto) xD. Fixed.
The trenchs; Well. Trenchs are an historical tribute for the eastern front. Most people had just this german tank attacks in mind when they are thinking of eastern front. But it is fact that this "panzer fronts" were just a small part of the hole front line. Heeresgruppe Nord thought a "trench war" from 1941 till 1944. Heeresgruppe Mitte had dug in from 1942 till 1944...So why NOT trenches?First of all it'd be helpful to establish what trenches we're talking about. Are we talking the plain british trenches the soviets also use?
Cant see any problem (and with flame-thrower and molotov cockail they should be easy to clean).
Yeah, maybe have something like the single-sided heavy cover of the map trenches? I'm not sure how you could make that buildable, though...
Yeah, maybe have something like the single-sided heavy cover of the map trenches? I'm not sure how you could make that buildable, though...
It's entirely possible, it would require a model but it also would require somebody with a lot of knowledge of Object Editor... these are people we lack at the moment.
Personally, I've never been a fan of trenches... but it's up to our faction designers and balancers to decide.
i like but the only thing that does bother me is the sturmpios shouldnt have the flamethrowers right off the bat they should have to upgrade for em
I'm getting more and more excited for the Ostheer with every update. I can't wait to play as them!
I think I would have liked the regular Panzer II more but that's far too late to change now (not to mention mostly irrelevant, I just like how the original looks better)
Am Still wondering why this wasn't in the donaters forum first? ???My bad, i forgotten to place it there XD.
Maybe because the donors are obsolete now?I'm not used yet to post stuff there first. Not going to happen with the next ostheer sneaky peaky.
Forgive my ignorance :-\ but...what are Czech Hedgehogs? :Phttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_hedgehog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_hedgehog)
Forgive my ignorance :-\ but...what are Czech Hedgehogs? :Phttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_hedgehog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_hedgehog)
So basically they are the same as Yankee Hedgehogs?
Certainly. To donate is to give someone something without expecting/wanting anything in return. Otherwise it would be buying/bribing/hiring.
Well, they are your rules, but i honestly think that everybody should get this information at the same time...
Truly so. I mean, donation should be an act of free will, done without any profit acquired.Yeah but their "profit" was to keep the forum alive. Best to do that is to dangle news of the progress. So it worked, forum is saved. Why complaining?
I'm not complaining. I just don't like people getting upset 'bout being cut off from some info simply 'cause they don't have money to spend, or some trouble with internet payments.
Anyway, it's not my decision, and it shouldn't be mine in any case. I, personally, am happy either way, as long, as the mod is alive. :)As i said this comes up because the forum is saved for a time
I think Cephalos's heavy cover is sick! that would be awesome to see
Nice :).Yeah, maybe have something like the single-sided heavy cover of the map trenches? I'm not sure how you could make that buildable, though...
It's entirely possible, it would require a model but it also would require somebody with a lot of knowledge of Object Editor... these are people we lack at the moment.
Personally, I've never been a fan of trenches... but it's up to our faction designers and balancers to decide.
I have an idea:
Heavy Cover ( really stupid name, I know) - cost some manpower, but has two tasks - to grant somr cover to infantry and block light vehicles. Buildble same as old-style PE Roadbloks ( I mean those big ones, not those small builded in line)
And this took me about 1 minute ( plus 1 to load World builder)\
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2497/okop.jpg)
How do you like it?
EDIT: I forgot to write that it's ungarnisonable. Works like sandbags.
Well, i don't know how you would implement underground bunkers... Something like that would require a whole new system (something like that of Metal Fatigue).Well, we need to try something new at least :D! If it won't work will widely known :-X.
What about these?
Well, why not to give trenches also to Wehrmacht and US? There were stalemates on the Western Front ( a lot of those), and trennch is the simples and most obvious type of cover that infantry can provide. Don't tell me that battle of Bocage, operation Luttich and other big battles didn't take place in trenches.Afaik Ostheer trenches won't be the same that the soviets and brits have.
At the beginning trench was unique to Brits - because they were defensive faction it was obvious, same as not giving trenches to PE. Soviets made a bit difference, nevertheless trench was still allies stuff. Now I can't imagine when Ostheer will dig trenches for it's infantry and for PE Grens or Wehr Grens :o This will cause trench war.
My point is:
On most parts of the eastern front u had a war with parallels of ww1.
So u CANT fade out this fact and that is the reason why we shouldnt fade out this asprect for red army and Ostheer!
Well. Out of my view the historical aspect is one of the most important point for a game which had decided to chose an real historical setting.
And out of my view trenches dont destroy the gameplay.
When a brit dig in he loses a big offensive capacity and when
german faction had their big tanks brits will regret their dug in xD
[...]The trench idea has been used way too much already. Brit trenches already ruin gameplay. Now Russians...now Ostheer? The cow has been milked too much, leave it alone. Static defenses is not how a fun game is meant to be played.
[...]The trench idea has been used way too much already. Brit trenches already ruin gameplay. Now Russians...now Ostheer? The cow has been milked too much, leave it alone. Static defenses is not how a fun game is meant to be played.
that's like saying "ostheer shouldn't have sandbags because the other faction have them".
(about soviets&trenches: only one doctrine can use them)
if the EF faction designers think it's a good idea to include trenches then i'm sure it's gonna be ok.
and ostheer would be the first axis faction to have them.
Yeah, the US and Wehr factions were freash and original, it was fun to play, and historycally accurate (for an RTS game). But with the Brit and PE faction they're gone too far, look the popularity that factions. Even that is angers me, if I don't watch out, I can't buld all of the buildings on Wrecked train, for example. I think trenches wouldn't be so popular, if it don't allow the player to base rush, or do the Ostheer faction for light assault force at the beginning, so you can't sit youre units in trenches, then you weaken youre forces. I think the less used building is the trench when youre a Brit. It's comical, how it gone to ToV and CoH:$ it's not fun to play with, especially in 1v1. hope the new patch will balance my favourite RTS game. :)Well. Out of my view the historical aspect is one of the most important point for a game which had decided to chose an real historical setting.
And out of my view trenches dont destroy the gameplay.
When a brit dig in he loses a big offensive capacity and when
german faction had their big tanks brits will regret their dug in xD
Historical aspekts should not be a slave book to be followed, but an powerfull inspiration source, espeacially when dealing with a hardcore RTS as Company of Heroes.
The British faction has really no reliable counters against trenches, they can't do anything allmost. Imagine a squard of stormpios with 2x flamethrowes and mp40's inside a trench cookin them poor tommies up, dooms day i say.
quit complaining trenches are fine. The ostheer isn't gonna become a new british faction ffs.
quit complaining trenches are fine. The ostheer isn't gonna become a new british faction ffs.
WTF?
I thought, it was, like, a discussion, FFS? ;D
Besides, their trenches are doctrinal, and they don't have any anti-trench tools right away as well.
Back to the topic: I think that some trenches are more than appropriate and would really suit the Ostheer. But these just have to be unique ones. Un-occupiable and passable by infantry and vehicles buildable heavy cover lines would be somewhat new, interesting, historically accurate, providing the necessary game dinamics, hell,- these would be flawless! ;D ;D ;D
Vehicles driving over cover without crushing it? I'm not sure that could be implemented...
Well it's just that the current map trenches can't be driven over by vehicles, so i just assumed...
It's also annoying that infantry can't climb over walls, so if you guys could implement that as well, that would be fucking sweet!
Well it's just that the current map trenches can't be driven over by vehicles, so i just assumed...The devs have stated that they are not making core gameplay changes, just balance changes. Infantry 'jumping' over walls is one of them.
It's also annoying that infantry can't climb over walls, so if you guys could implement that as well, that would be fucking sweet!
Besides, their trenches are doctrinal, and they don't have any anti-trench tools right away as well.
Besides, their trenches are doctrinal, and they don't have any anti-trench tools right away as well.
Molotovs do come quicker then then OH trenches.
Besides, their trenches are doctrinal, and they don't have any anti-trench tools right away as well.
Molotovs do come quicker then then OH trenches.
Comparing molotovs, which are actually an upgrade to a flamethrower which is not, taken as trench-clearing tools, is by all means inadequate in every aspect there is.
Besides, their trenches are doctrinal, and they don't have any anti-trench tools right away as well.
Molotovs do come quicker then then OH trenches.
Comparing molotovs, which are actually an upgrade to a flamethrower which is not, taken as trench-clearing tools, is by all means inadequate in every aspect there is.
PE uses their incendiary nades for Trench Clearing. So it's pretty similar.
Wait what? PE needs to upgrade to Incendiary nades first, and can't build trenches?
I agree with all the trench-opposed people here. Imho trenches completely screw CoHs gameplay mechanics and I think everyone clearly sees that. No clever use of cover, no maneuvering,no flanking, no real micro(just delete it when they come with flamers). Just pop a trench and hop in and you're done. It isn't even the model, it's the mechanic.
And even if it comes relatively late with the Ostheer, why even bother?
Does it really need them?
Or are you just giving it to them for the sake of historical accuracy? Because that argument just doesn't cut it. Like, at all. I don't think I even have to name any examples for historical inaccuracies in CoH because everyone in the know clearly sees that. What made CoH such a hit is balance>>>realism, and you should stick to that. Just think of what playstyle you're promoting with trenches and then weigh that vs what you think you gain with a little more historical correctness.
Furthermore, do you think it is public perception that the Eastern Front was more static than the Western Front? Will it matter to people? Can you picture someone at GR.org saying: "Well, EF also has trenches for the OH and the Soviets which is important because, while not many people might know about it, warfare on the Eastern Front was a lot more static than you might think"
My plea is: if you're adding a unit or a feature, then do it for the gameplays sake, not for historical accuracy.
Moreover, the same troopers, that wield them, can also build trenches (by default as well). ::)
Sturmpioneers
Role: Assault Engineers
Weapons: 2xFlammenwerfer + 2xMP40
Abilities: Detect Mines(passive), Barbed Wire, Sandbags, Czech Hedgehogs, Run(requires Blitz Pioneers), Goliath(requires Blitz Pioneers), Trench(requires Fortress Pioneers), S-Mines(requires Fortress Pioneers).
Upgrade: Blitz Pioneers OR Fortress Pioneers.
Summary: The Ostheer Stormpioniers are ready to combat on the eastern front! Let them construct trenches or planting S-Mines by upgrading them as Fortress Pioneers or to assault a position with Run ability and be able to construct Goliaths as Blitz Pioneers. [...]
Heavy Assault(HA): The units that belong to this pool are the Stormpioniers and the Sdkfz. 251 (aka Troop Halftrack).
you have to buy the pool upgrade first and not everyone will take this one. many will choose pak40 and ISG. so i really don't see a problem with the sturmpios being able to build trenches and clear them...
you have to buy the pool upgrade first and not everyone will take this one. many will choose pak40 and ISG. so i really don't see a problem with the sturmpios being able to build trenches and clear them...
If you want one key point, I think the big one is that the Brits can't counter them (not easily anyway). The fact that the Sturmpios can easily clear trenches isn't an inherent problem in itself.
i'm not sure, but are riflegrenade squads / mortar pits / AVRE not effective vs trenches?
I agree with all the trench-opposed people here. Imho trenches completely screw CoHs gameplay mechanics and I think everyone clearly sees that. No clever use of cover, no maneuvering,no flanking, no real micro(just delete it when they come with flamers). Just pop a trench and hop in and you're done. It isn't even the model, it's the mechanic.
And even if it comes relatively late with the Ostheer, why even bother?
Does it really need them?
Or are you just giving it to them for the sake of historical accuracy? Because that argument just doesn't cut it. Like, at all. I don't think I even have to name any examples for historical inaccuracies in CoH because everyone in the know clearly sees that. What made CoH such a hit is balance>>>realism, and you should stick to that. Just think of what playstyle you're promoting with trenches and then weigh that vs what you think you gain with a little more historical correctness.
Furthermore, do you think it is public perception that the Eastern Front was more static than the Western Front? Will it matter to people? Can you picture someone at GR.org saying: "Well, EF also has trenches for the OH and the Soviets which is important because, while not many people might know about it, warfare on the Eastern Front was a lot more static than you might think"
My plea is: if you're adding a unit or a feature, then do it for the gameplays sake, not for historical accuracy.
Skipping off the "hot" topic of trenches for now has the teching been worked out yet if so please let it not be "build any building from the start" youve done it with Soviets and RMC :-\, doing it with a third faction would be in a word... stale.RMC can't just build any building.
Buildings can now be built at any time; they do not require an officer anymore. Also, you acquire all units from all buildings without the need of an officer.
RMC can't just build any building.Brits can call in (if youre going to be picky) from the start any base structure im not on about defenses. Simply saying I'd prefer teching of upgrading to new building (Wehr) or build a building to gain a building (PE and US). To another just build whatever then upgrade those buildings (Soviets).
Don't argue with me mate. I just played 3 games as RMC. It has been changed since that update.
>Trenches completely screws with CoH gameplay mechanics and i think everyone can clearly see that.As you may have seen, GodlikeDennis already rebutted your post with great insight and detailled explanation. (Although I think already made these points in the post you wanted to adress)
I for one do not share that opinion of yours and I'm sure many other people do not hold that view point.
...
if your so worried about trenches early game then build a bike/jeep/bren carrier to stop units from building them. Otherwise deal with trenches accordingly as any player worth his grain of salt would.I'm sorry, is there an argument hidden in between the lines or are you just trying to say l2p? Because if that were your point you'd have completely missed GodlikeDennis' and my point.
2) Panzerfusiliers's ability "Granades shower": the granades launched will be like normal granade (ex. Grenadiers), Assault Grenades (ex. Doctrine ability) or multiple granade (ex. Assault troops) ?
Btw, here's the link to cephalos' trench poll & discussion http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=5054.0 (http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=5054.0)
i don't understand it. even if you say "brit can't counter trenches", US and soviets can (flamers, grenades and croc).
PE don't have flamers and have to use flame nades or incidiary rounds from mortarhalftrack. so they have disadvantages vs trenches as well.
but that problems are not caused by ostheer beeing able to build trenches.
it is caused by relic not giving their expansion faction enough anti-trench weapons.
if you say "ostheer having trenches will destroy the game balance" then you would have to ask devs to make axis factions unable to use empty brit trenches, as this would cause the same problem.
and keep this in mind: brits have trenches AND mg nests, mortar pits, 17pounder and bofors. as far as we know from the updates, ostheer will have NO defensive building (just the flak as base defense) and will have to use trenches as defenses.QuotePutting all aside, what about 2x2 and bigger games, where OH will be accompanied by other german factions? Trenches would definitely cuase A LOT of problem and drastically affect the game-play.why? it's the other way around. if you have 2 or more allied faction it is likely that it's not just brits but also US or soviets. so the allies would have anti-trench weapons.
I'm sorry for asking here, but can you guys release a recrew-patch for the sovjets, please?
I can't wait till you release the Ostheer.
Patch 1.30 should be arriving shortly.
I'm sorry for asking here, but can you guys release a recrew-patch for the sovjets, please?
I can't wait till you release the Ostheer.
Patch 1.30 should be arriving shortly.
Hi there,
what are this for fantasy camo uniforms for the Sturm Pioneers on the picture on page 1 of this thread? Hopefully they will not look like this in the final version. This camo never existed in WW2...who´s idea was it to let them look like this?
Regards,
Caen44 (owner of www.ww2-camouflage.com (http://www.ww2-camouflage.com))
[...]
Remember that all the pictures on this post are WIP.
[...]
Yeah, yeah... but it doesn't stop people, including myself, from noticing nonsenses and pointing those out, so you would have a time and a motive to work it all out for the sake of making the mod better. That is what is known as a "constructive criticism". ;)Hi there,
what are this for fantasy camo uniforms for the Sturm Pioneers on the picture on page 1 of this thread? Hopefully they will not look like this in the final version. This camo never existed in WW2...who´s idea was it to let them look like this?
Regards,
Caen44 (owner of www.ww2-camouflage.com (http://www.ww2-camouflage.com))
lol... did you read this part???[...]
Remember that all the pictures on this post are WIP.
[...]
that's called redundancy ;)...
User 1: "Hey guys we have this unit but it's skin is just a place holder".
User 2: "This is a really bad skin, this cannot be right".
User 1: "Ehmm... i said is just a place holder".
But all in all we appreciate that the users give us constructive criticism ;D!!
You don't make the choice once. Swap back if you need the others. Or build a 2nd building if you're that desperate.