Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Suggestions => Red Army Suggestions => Topic started by: GodlikeDennis on March 31, 2011, 05:09:08 PM
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How about upgrading the stand ground ability of DP-28 squads to massively improve MG accuracy as well as the current benefits (which currently aren't enough to warrant losing all movement). Thoughts?
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I would add it the re-newed (by the Relic's "final patch") G-43 "focus fire" ability (pin the enemy infantry down for 5 sec.)
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I would add it the re-newed (by the Relic's "final patch") G-43 "focus fire" ability (pin the enemy infantry down for 5 sec.)
Does that only work against one infantry unit at a time? If so, that might be no good for a mid- to late-game ability.
I like Godlike's suggestion because then you could really use it to lock down an area, as long as it doesn't instamulch enemy squads.
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I would add it the re-newed (by the Relic's "final patch") G-43 "focus fire" ability (pin the enemy infantry down for 5 sec.)
Does that only work against one infantry unit at a time? If so, that might be no good for a mid- to late-game ability.
I like Godlike's suggestion because then you could really use it to lock down an area, as long as it doesn't instamulch enemy squads.
You're right, I would've extend it further, to pin all squads under its fire for a duration of 5 sec. That would punish PE mp-armed blobs (PE blob-kill-all lovers would be outraged ;D)
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I would add it the re-newed (by the Relic's "final patch") G-43 "focus fire" ability (pin the enemy infantry down for 5 sec.)
Does that only work against one infantry unit at a time? If so, that might be no good for a mid- to late-game ability.
I like Godlike's suggestion because then you could really use it to lock down an area, as long as it doesn't instamulch enemy squads.
You're right, I would've extend it further, to pin all squads under its fire for a duration of 5 sec. That would punish PE mp-armed blobs (PE blob-kill-all lovers would be outraged ;D)
I dont think DP 28 needs a new ability at all, they just need a suppression buff. Right now DP 28 is a BREN with +60% dmg buff. It should suppress stronger than BAR.
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Suppression bonus could be granted when you use "Hold ground ability" :).
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well, I guess every player who knows that infantry in CoH loves to pointlessly run around during firefight press this ability as soon as possible to make the most of DP-28. That's not an answer to this problem.
I think that ability similar to US BAR suppressive fire could do. It could cost munitions, to make it really worth using while Soviets lack of munitions as we all know.
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well, I guess every player who knows that infantry in CoH loves to pointlessly run around during firefight press this ability as soon as possible to make the most of DP-28. That's not an answer to this problem.
I think that ability similar to US BAR suppressive fire could do. It could cost munitions, to make it really worth using while Soviets lack of munitions as we all know.
The problem is that "Hold Ground" ability isn't good at all, so we said give suppress bonus to that ability, but you think it's not going to fix the problem, then you say that giving Bar's suppression fire will going to fix this?? the objective is improve "Hold Ground" ability, not discarding it and creating a new ability... at least i think that are OP's intentions and i agree that DP-28 doesn't need another ability.
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Bishop explained my thoughts. It doesn't need a new ability, it just needs its current ability buffed to make it more MG like. The movement cancel is a huge drawback at the moment for only a slight decrease in received accuracy and no received suppression. This is primarily a defensive power so those attributes are rather pointless. It should make it more in line with the MGs of the other faction, being immobile and better suppression/damage, when the ability is active.
The mechanics of G43 slow are that it targets a squad independently of what the squad is actually shooting at and applies the slow effect. Meanwhile the G43 squad gets reduced accuracy and damage but can shoot at any target they wish. This is rubbish because the effect stays applied even if the affected squad runs out of range/LoS or even when the G43 squad retreats and is not firing. The slow effect also applies to retreating squads. The retail patch is somewhat addressing this problem.
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Why not to make some heavy machine gun teams?
With those soviet machine gun DP-28 teams game will be much better.
You can keep DP-28 in Sterlkys and just add that DP-28 heavy machine gun teams
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well I saw in a news update that reward units is a heavy machine gun for soviets. its about time
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That was an april fools joke, though this time there was a Photo :o
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Or (as Ive said many times before) just make the DP-28 upgrade cheaper (25-40ammo). Youll have a choice then, spam DP-28 or use PPSH with Mosin support.
But DP-28 should get a suppresion buff anyhow.
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good idea on lowering dp-28 cost I think halfing the muni cost of it is only way to make it useful
dp-28 is a non factor in competitive games, why build it when u get bonus' for moving for armor and firepower?
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Summarizing it all up:
Obviously, as it was stated many times already, ATM DP is absolutely worthless:
1) it's the same price that ppsh,
2) it has lower firepower, than that of ppsh (squad-wise),
3) it grants an ability, that brings more hurt than benefit (=useless, and troublesome).
It would be the most satisfying and required change, it were made more suppressive.
Soviets are desperately in need of at least one viable suppressive weapon, since T-90 is no more to be that.
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I don't like the idea of making the two upgrades cost different amounts of munitions. The way I see it the idea of the two upgrades and the two abilities granted are offensive/defensive. Not spam/spam more of.
An extra thought on making DP28 teams more "MG-like" when standing ground is its effect on the debate about the MG nest being doctrinal. Instead of only one, doctrinal, point-defence, suppressive weapon (that doesn't require tank hall and upgrade) you have that option plus the option of turning a T2 infantry squad (same time as Ami MG if they went rax first) into something more like it, being that you choose the "defensive" squad upgrade.
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IMO, doctrinal Mg nest is simply shit. The only thing to discuss about one, is what to replace it with.
Hmg-like, or not, some supprsive unit is obviously necessary for the sake of castrating lame tactics of blob-rushing soviet heavy weapons with mp-armed forces under group zeal.
It's just an ugly tactic, that can be handled, but only by a superior force or priorly planned defensive positioning (placing mines, barbed wire etc.), which is not good, because a simple rushing is absolutely easy and requires no skill to perform, while holding it off does.
The possibility of having a blob suppressed, and eventually pinned will make blob-rusher think twice before sending his forces to a hopeless slaughter.
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The only thing useful for Propaganda are Kats :P... for now XD. There's a second choice for the DP-28's ability besides giving suppression, but i won't say it by now ;).
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I don't like the idea of making the two upgrades cost different amounts of munitions. The way I see it the idea of the two upgrades and the two abilities granted are offensive/defensive. Not spam/spam more of.
DP-28 will still cost you. They could be cheaper (still much more expensive than 0 muni BARs) but that dosnt mean you will win a game spamming them (Jeeps are cheap but you wont win a game by spamming them) DP-28 will still be a defensive weapon becouse you cant fire DPs while move youre squad ::) (unlike BARs or Strelky without the upgrade).
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Well if your not interested in lowering cost an underpowered and underused weapon why not consider buffing it? because as is now its not used competitvely and thats a shame
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The only thing useful for Propaganda are Kats :P... for now XD. There's a second choice for the DP-28's ability besides giving suppression, but i won't say it by now ;).
I'm a fan of trenches personally ;) if it was between MG nest and Trenches, you'd have to take the MG Nest out. But MG nest arn't the problem, the problem is it cost WAY too much, in all aspects, Pop Count, Manpower, and Fuel.
I think you should combine the Trench and MG nest ability into one, and name it "Advanced Defenses" or something like that. Ingenery will be able to dig trenches and MG nest after the ability is unlocked. That way you'll have room for another potential ability. Provided MG nest cost are tuned down, I don't see much a problem keeping them.
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The only thing useful for Propaganda are Kats :P... for now XD.
Does that mean, you're planning on making them suck just as well as the rest of the doctrine (except for trenches, probably) ???
Just a joke! ;D ;D ;D
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Prop is currently undergoing many changes to make it better overall. The changes aren't finished but they're very interesting ATM.
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The only thing useful for Propaganda are Kats :P... for now XD.
Does that mean, you're planning on making them suck just as well as the rest of the doctrine (except for trenches, probably) ???
Just a joke! ;D ;D ;D
aye ;D!!!
Prop is currently undergoing many changes to make it better overall. The changes aren't finished but they're very interesting ATM.
lol ;D
All in all, something shall be done to Hold Ground ability(DP-28), currently is useless :(.
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[quote author=SnappingTurtle link=topic=5526.msg62702#msg62702
DP-28 will still be a defensive weapon becouse you cant fire DPs while move youre squad ::) (unlike BARs or Strelky without the upgrade).
(http://www.prodalit.ru/images/490000/487678.jpg)
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Wow this topic is from ages ago...
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Wow this topic is from ages ago...
It's not that old but I fail to see why it was dug up just for what appears to be a novel cover.
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The picture shows RL footage, depicting a trooper, firing DP on the move.
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Does anyone use Dp28 in multiplayer games? and more specifically competitive ones?
I know I havent and I'm curious is it worth it. especially against certain troop types like mp44's?
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if you group 2 squads of DP-28 Strelky, they perform quite well against enemy infantry.
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You can also create the killer combo of one squad with DP-28 for the surpression task and two with PPSH to engage the pinned enemy in close range.
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^^ But if you don't bother, they do even better with PPSh.
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sad but true
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PPshs are lame. DP-28 FTW!
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I've used them sometime against PE halftracks. I think it could be an idea to slightly increase their supression and add a 3rd DP28 to the squad.
Currently the PPsh adds like 6 smgs to the strelky squads, which perform better on the move and are overall way more efficient.
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not to mention vet1 strelky have airborne armor which synergises with ppsh because they gain armor bonus while on the move, and we all know ppsh are effective on the move. So why would you want your strelky standing still with a dp28 when i could be doing more damage on the move with ppsh and taking less damage as well because of airborne armor.
makes no sense i hope dp28 is buffed or another gun is added to the squad. either that or lower muni
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PD-28 will be usefull wile the attack.
Stationary MG was effective for the defence lines, & resistance points.
PD-28 will be usefull in the infantry like attacks.
That will be intensive hard battles, like the historical battles was ...
P.S.: Stalingrad city infantry crossing Volga river for landing (incompetently showing by western historicans in the COD episode) was mainly armed with PPSh, few with PD-28 & Mosin rifles (for the MR support). Most of them have a small Shovel Spades as a close combat weapon. All of them have a granades.
Main task of the Nazi was cut off units of the 62 army & surround them all. Hard battle ended with a victory by the soviet troops.
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P.S.: Stalingrad city infantry crossing Volga river for landing (incompetently showing by western historicans in the COD episode) was mainly armed with PPSh, few with PD-28 & Mosin rifles (for the MR support). Most of them have a small Shovel Spades as a close combat weapon. All of them have a granades.
Main task of the Nazi was cut off units of the 62 army & surround them all. Hard battle ended with a victory by the soviet troops.
What does this have to do with the topic at hand Mr. Professional Historian?? The PD-28 as you refer to it is just the Russian transliteration of DP-28 (Тоже самое слово, в прoстых словах) Anyway we know how it is used, as the Strelky use it as you described.
The argument stands at how to change the efficiency of the DP-28 to match the PPSh-41 in efficiency as an upgrade for the Strelky and make it worth getting. Don't make useless comments.
Anyway my idea is to decrease the cost of the upgrade and provide a different ability to the current one (forget what its called since I don't get this upgrade at all).
It works as follows: When a Strelky unit is in cover of any sort or in a building, this upgrade can be activated providing unlimited amount of suppressing fire (giving suppression to the enemy units caught in it by x1.2 (or so, it was an arbitrary number so no screaming please) but forcing the Strelky to stay in place until the ability runs out of time.
Basically it would work like a short period HMG (only in cover at that) but you would have a unit that is unable to move, and thus cannot provide mobile suppression fire, and set the cool-down to about 2.5 minutes so you can't automatically move to the next choke-point and provide suppression.
This would work well with the Propaganda strategy doctrine (but disable the ability in trenches so as not to make it overpowered), and I'm sure it would find its way to work with the other doctrines as well.
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Your idea is a rather complicated fix to a minor problem that requires a simple buff. Im supporting darc's idea of adding a 3rd dp-28 to the squad
and did the history lesson really bother you that much? :P
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Well ... misunderstanding.
I agree with one thing adding another one PD-28. It's a helpful thing.
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Well ... misunderstanding.
I agree with one thing adding another one PD-28. It's a helpful thing.
I don't, I want some suppressing unit for soviets, no matter will it be a unit, or an ability.
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give supression to a Mg team or something, or some new reward unit to come
the dp-28 however needs something more if it is ever to be of any use, and not trumped by ppsh
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Your idea is a rather complicated fix to a minor problem that requires a simple buff. Im supporting darc's idea of adding a 3rd dp-28 to the squad
and did the history lesson really bother you that much? :P
It certainly did bother me because it seemed like a nonsensical post. Anyway no matter, I apologize for overreacting I was a bit tipsy.
Anyway the problem with adding a 3rd DP is now you have 3 slower soldiers with a very limited ability to provide suppression. A buff to make it on par with the PPSh would have very limiting effect.
What I mean is that while, great you have 3 guys with DP-28s that are fine for long and mid range work, most of the later battles of the game seem to take place in close range, more movement as people start relying more on battlefield-like tactics instead of taking cover and sitting there like ducks. The PPSh forces the enemy to take the cover and fire approach, while the DP-28 lets them (enemies) move forward and when they get a bit closer it becomes painfully hard to keep the Strelky alive, because the advantage is gone. But the PPSh is perfect for attacking the guys in cover basically making it much better than the DP-28 whether there was 2, 3, or even 5.
The PPSh forces them into cover and moves up, giving no breathing room. The DP-28 (unless given a suppression buff like crazy) just lets them come closer and closer, barely suppressing them when they come within grenade range and you just lost your advantage. BOOM. A third one will not in anyway make a difference, fine perhaps a squad will be forced into suppression a second earlier but they will keep crawling until they are within grenades throw. Still a seeming wasted upgrade.
The ability I proposed creates instant suppression and forces the enemy to rethink their plan, not give them breathing room, but make them improvise, while letting your troops gain the upper hand. Of course this doesn't quite take all other things into account, in fact it leaves the Strelky open to artillery and mortars, but the main purpose of any MG is to provide suppression in some way or another and my way seems fair.
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but any type of MG is supposed to be defensive weapon, don't you think? Two DP squad will be as mobile as three DP squad - they just sit in cover and shoot. MGs are defensive weapons, they aren't meant to be this mobile.
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Well sure it can be as defensive as it wants but without the right stats or a new ability the DP-28 is pretty much useless. Ask any Soviet player whether they use the PPSh or the DP and you will get PPSh as the answer 98% of the time, there is a reason for that.
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unless those 2% are long distance lovers, like me :) who really hate charging with SMGs forward. That's why I in 90% of my games use DP-28. They deal a bit damage ( more than BARs ?) and added to 5x12dmg Strelky rifles they creat quite deadly wall of bullets.
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Lovely, but you cannot use DPs for offense since obviously you have slower soldiers plus set-up time. I can use the PPSh for both defense and attacks, so yes you are the low percentile.
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Lovely, but you cannot use DPs for offense since obviously you have slower soldiers plus set-up time. I can use the PPSh for both defense and attacks, so yes you are the low percentile.
Aren't MGs squad support anyway. They are supposed to be used to cover an attack. They become redundant in the face of the PPSh, which is crude but very effective :)
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Well yes if you are reling on HMG, but the LMG is supposed to be a mobile AI system. However, the DP-28 pales in comparison to the MG42 or Bren. The reason they are redundant in the face of PPSh is because the PPSh is more efficeint for the same price, plus puts out more bulllets per squad (of PPSh Strelky) than any in game MG, light or heavy.
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Well yes if you are reling on HMG, but the LMG is supposed to be a mobile AI system. However, the DP-28 pales in comparison to the MG42 or Bren. The reason they are redundant in the face of PPSh is because the PPSh is more efficeint for the same price, plus puts out more bulllets per squad (of PPSh Strelky) than any in game MG, light or heavy.
If thats the case... then it really sucks, I'll stick to PPSh ...
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Well ... misunderstanding.
I agree with one thing adding another one PD-28. It's a helpful thing.
I don't, I want some suppressing unit for soviets, no matter will it be a unit, or an ability.
And i want this, but modders compare SU army in the game with GB army & other funny thing :D :D :D
Looks like they afraid a potencial power of an army of SU complex.
They have dont mind the scale & whow intensive Eastern Battles was.
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For Others ... MG is not ONLY defensive weapon ... read please history & tactics ... I am tired for explain that simple war-history thing for you.
I still think to give a Maxim MG (3-4 men) unit for SU.
I can organise a voting for this. But it smell like:
1. Yes will say those, who agree with game ballance & history confirmation.
2. No will say those, who fear with rising power of SU army & review game tactics.
You can say - RKKA have enough power to compensate.
RKKA in game have a few chance with 1-2 examples of tactics in the game, with expirience, it easy to conteraction.
Looks like an anti-USSR war history act.
I am REALY HOPE, that the game is NOT ANOTHER political propaganda instrument in the Western hands.
I hope, you are smart & intelligent enough for review some places in the game.
Best regard, real Russia fan of the EF mod.
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@Sturmovik - man, you should give a break this "anti-russia/anti-soviet propaganda" whining and start thinking about gameplay and balance.
Can anyone provide stats to all hand-held Machineguns of all factions? To compare their range/dps/penetration, so we can take a look and think? For now we are comparing DP to other mgs without useful knowledge.
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Well ... misunderstanding.
I agree with one thing adding another one PD-28. It's a helpful thing.
I don't, I want some suppressing unit for soviets, no matter will it be a unit, or an ability.
And i want this, but modders compare SU army in the game with GB army & other funny thing :D :D :D
Looks like they afraid a potencial power of an army of SU complex.
They have dont mind the scale & whow intensive Eastern Battles was.
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For Others ... MG is not ONLY defensive weapon ... read please history & tactics ... I am tired for explain that simple war-history thing for you.
I still think to give a Maxim MG (3-4 men) unit for SU.
I can organise a voting for this. But it smell like:
1. Yes will say those, who agree with game ballance & history confirmation.
2. No will say those, who fear with rising power of SU army & review game tactics.
You can say - RKKA have enough power to compensate.
RKKA in game have a few chance with 1-2 examples of tactics in the game, with expirience, it easy to conteraction.
Looks like an anti-USSR war history act.
I am REALY HOPE, that the game is NOT ANOTHER political propaganda instrument in the Western hands.
I hope, you are smart & intelligent enough for review some places in the game.
Best regard, real Russia fan of the EF mod.
This is for Sturmovik only, so I apologize to all of you who cannot read this, but I'm kinda annoyed by him.
Во-первых, Моддеры очень хорошо понимают, что войну, которую Советские солдаты вели против Фашистов, была не только сложная, но и была нo была других маштаба , чем Американская и Британская. Но это ИГРА, не Историческая Симуляция. Нам нужeн баланс в Игре, а ты несёшь какую-тo чушь про Анти-Советскую пропаганду. У них (РККА) нет Пулемёта, потому что им он НЕ НУЖЕН. Это не копия Американцeв, это новая армия и новые тактики. ВСЁ.
@Cephalos
I do agree, we need stats, http://dow2.info/coh/Weapon_MG42_LMG.html (http://dow2.info/coh/Weapon_MG42_LMG.html) for MG42 LMG
http://dow2.info/coh/Weapon_Browning_Automatic_Rifle.html (http://dow2.info/coh/Weapon_Browning_Automatic_Rifle.html) for the BAR
http://dow2.info/coh/Weapon_Bren_LMG.html (http://dow2.info/coh/Weapon_Bren_LMG.html) for the Bren
Feel free to look up anything else, I don't however know how to get DP stats
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I am REALY HOPE, that the game is NOT ANOTHER political propaganda instrument in the Western hands.
I hope, you are smart & intelligent enough for review some places in the game.
Here the answer:
Read the second line of my signature.
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I am REALY HOPE, that the game is NOT ANOTHER political propaganda instrument in the Western hands.
I hope, you are smart & intelligent enough for review some places in the game.
Here the answer:
Read the second line of my signature.
Basically what I wrote in Russian, I just dragged it out to make him fully understand it (hopefully he did)
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@Sturmovik
Please drop that "anti-whatever" propaganda crap.
No matter how many people vote for a Maxim MG team, it won't make even a slight difference on the matter; this has been told like a hundred of times:
- Soviets doesn't need a MG Team. You know why and the answer doesn't have to do with patriotic stuff.
- We don't have animations for that unit, don't you think could we at least put an MG Team as doctrinal reinforcement?
- Talking about animations, perhaps you think that weapon could be placed on a tripod, but we won't do it, AFAIK that idea is a No-No.
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Ok, those seem to be the most important stats:
[name]:range, damage, accuracy [ long range/ medium range/ short range], supression[ long range/ medium range/ short range] and reload stats:
MG42: 40, 5, 0.1/ 0.3/ 0.7,1.2 /1 / 0.6 6.5-6
BAR: 35, 7, 0.2/ 0.45/ 0.75,0.002 /0.0035 / 0.0075 3.5-2.5
Bren: 35, 5, 0.175/ 0.35/ 0.65,1.5 /1 / 0.6 5
DP-28: 35, 8, 0.175/0.35/0.65, 0.0005/0.001/0.001 5
DP-28 anyone? O0
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Ok, those seem to be the most important stats:
[name]:range, damage, accuracy [ long range/ medium range/ short range], supression[ long range/ medium range/ short range] and reload stats:
MG42: 40, 5, 0.1/ 0.3/ 0.7,1.2 /1 / 0.6 6.5-6
BAR: 35, 7, 0.2/ 0.45/ 0.75,0.002 /0.0035 / 0.0075 3.5-2.5
Bren: 35, 5, 0.175/ 0.35/ 0.65,1.5 /1 / 0.6 5
DP-28: 35, 8, 0.175/0.35/0.65, 0.0005/0.001/0.001 5
DP-28 anyone? O0
Uhm..maybe DP-28 should be similar at Bren?
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@Cephalos
Nice work...
But the color choice makes it really hard to read, and distracts from the point.
Still, nice work!
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thanks blacky ;)
DP-28 has the biggest damage of all handheld Mgs. And really low supression rate. BAR has this problem solved by adding "supressive fire" ability.
Bren is almost the same as DP-28. I really hate copy-pasting stats...
Looks like the only way to improve effectivness of DP is to:
a) increase supression rate ( 1.0/ 0.8/ 0.4 maybe), so two DP-28 squads will gain possibilty to supress with focused fire
b) add some ability to make DP-28 supress easier ( like BAR).
Addding 3rd DP will not solve the problem. DP is a machine gun, and it's task is to supress and kill enemy infantry. As for now DP has only killing potential.
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Looks like the only way to improve effectivness of DP is to:
a) increase supression rate ( 1.0/ 0.8/ 0.4 maybe), so two DP-28 squads will gain possibilty to supress with focused fire
b) add some ability to make DP-28 supress easier ( like BAR).
Addding 3rd DP will not solve the problem. DP is a machine gun, and it's task is to supress and kill enemy infantry. As for now DP has only killing potential.
This is a nice suggestion! Just adding a third MG isn't that sinful. Buff it's supression value or add an supression ability, this will convince people of upgrading their Strelky with DP-28 more often.
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As for now the only way to supress Germans with pure infantry is to spam A LOT of russians. DP usefulness will increase if it will provide useful suppressive fire. I don't mean making it as HMGs, where few bullets supress.
Maxi, remember about the fact that DP is portable weapon, and can be dropped. Like lMG42.
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Yeah I do. I imagined just something like the effect that lMG42 does (though it can't be fired on the move). It's also portable and deals a lot of supression when fired. Maybe the DP shouldn't be given the supression value of the lMG42, a bit less, but two of them should be at least capable of supress the enemy.
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That sounds cool:
DP-28 < lMG42
2xDP-28 > lMG42
... but with this the DPs price had to be at least 80.
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Granted.
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Hmm now that i look at all the stats I have to agree about increasing the suppression (but if I recall that basically what i was trolling about earlier). I just think that the DP-28 doesn't have as much suppression because in RL it didn't sound scary, at least nothing like the MG-34 or 42.
I'm still for the ability I suggested. Its really not that complex. Lock-down the squad in cover while it provides heavy suppression fire, until the time runs out and then recharge for 1 min 30 secs. Make it unusable in trenches and you have a pretty balanced ability
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3) it grants an ability, that brings more hurt than benefit (=useless, and troublesome).
It's not useless in a trench. :)
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@Sturmovik
Please drop that "anti-whatever" propaganda crap.
No matter how many people vote for a Maxim MG team, it won't make even a slight difference on the matter; this has been told like a hundred of times:
- Soviets doesn't need a MG Team. You know why and the answer doesn't have to do with patriotic stuff.
- We don't have animations for that unit, don't you think could we at least put an MG Team as doctrinal reinforcement?
- Talking about animations, perhaps you think that weapon could be placed on a tripod, but we won't do it, AFAIK that idea is a No-No.
Explain why SU army doesn't need an MG unit ... If that is ballance, what ballance in game procedure break the russian MG?
If the Animation is the main explanation ... there are many units in other soldiers & units of other armies in the game, that animation can be used. There might be a way to extract or merge midels with animations.
Example: Nazi grenadier with not tripoded MG-42 have a good example of animation of weeled Maxim. Mix them with other soldiers of MG unit (US or Germ) ... Moving ... Mortar unit with some corrections ... it can be a way for example.
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@Sturmovik
Please drop that "anti-whatever" propaganda crap.
No matter how many people vote for a Maxim MG team, it won't make even a slight difference on the matter; this has been told like a hundred of times:
- Soviets doesn't need a MG Team. You know why and the answer doesn't have to do with patriotic stuff.
- We don't have animations for that unit, don't you think could we at least put an MG Team as doctrinal reinforcement?
- Talking about animations, perhaps you think that weapon could be placed on a tripod, but we won't do it, AFAIK that idea is a No-No.
Explain why SU army doesn't need an MG unit ... If that is ballance, what ballance in game procedure break the russian MG?
If the Animation is the main explanation ... there are many units in other soldiers & units of other armies in the game, that animation can be used. There might be a way to extract or merge midels with animations.
Example: Nazi grenadier with not tripoded MG-42 have a good example of animation of weeled Maxim. Mix them with other soldiers of MG unit (US or Germ) ... Moving ... Mortar unit with some corrections ... it can be a way for example.
Ok, if it's so simple "mix" all this stuff, enter in Devs Team and do it.
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@Sturmovik - Sov's don't need an MG team due to the massively powerful mortar. Capture an MG42 or two, and watch every infantry squad die in a couple of shells, no matter what. There's no reason to give the Sov's that kind of power, simply because it would COMPLETELY unbalance early/early-mid gameplay. And if you do give them a buildable MG, then the Sov mortar becomes like Ami and Wehr mortars, and therefore cookie-cutters them. That makes the Sov's like everyone else.
As for animations, from what i understand, they're not that easy in CoH. If it was easy, there'd be no shortage of animators for this game.
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@Sturmovik - Sov's don't need an MG team due to the massively powerful mortar. Capture an MG42 or two, and watch every infantry squad die in a couple of shells, no matter what. There's no reason to give the Sov's that kind of power, simply because it would COMPLETELY unbalance early/early-mid gameplay. And if you do give them a buildable MG, then the Sov mortar becomes like Ami and Wehr mortars, and therefore cookie-cutters them. That makes the Sov's like everyone else.
As for animations, from what i understand, they're not that easy in CoH. If it was easy, there'd be no shortage of animators for this game.
You sure are an extremely pro gamer, if you say, that mortars can ever pay off for an HMg... ::)
I mean, there's no way, it can ever happen, unless you're super pro, or super lame!
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@Sturmovik
Soviets have more different types of infantry than other factions and also have more soldiers per squad. Add a suppressing mg to that equation and the thin balance we have now will be broken. Perhaps this is wrong but is like i see it.
Besides it's not that they need an MG team. This was already discussed in the past countless times and the answer is the same: there won't be a mg team for soviets.
About the animations @jealco explained it pretty well.
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@Sturmovik
Soviets have more different types of infantry than other factions and also have more soldiers per squad. Add a suppressing mg to that equation and the thin balance we have now will be broken.
Besides it's not that they need an MG team.
About the animations @jealco explained it pretty well.
I don't think there's a need for suppressive HMg - just some basic one, like american, but without AP rounds, with slower movement, and with slower setup time.
As for suppression, maybe some timed ability with huge cool-down? Just one per faction.
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Su dont need hmg team, and there mortar is overrated anyway.
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@Sturmovik
Soviets have more different types of infantry than other factions and also have more soldiers per squad. Add a suppressing mg to that equation and the thin balance we have now will be broken.
Besides it's not that they need an MG team.
About the animations @jealco explained it pretty well.
I don't think there's a need for suppressive HMg - just some basic one, like american, but without AP rounds, with slower movement, and with slower setup time.
As for suppression, maybe some timed ability with huge cool-down? Just one per faction.
I would prefer a doctrinal Maxim that could kick asses XD.
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I hate to get into a Soviet MG argument but why does the Maxim have to be wheeled? I mean that is just the classical image in peoples heads, they had Maxims on tripods. Either as a reward unit or a call in I would love to see this unit in game. I would prefer call in replacing the overpriced crappy maxim bunkers.
One thing we are also forgetting in the dp-28 PPSH argument is that the dp-28 soon will be dropable, making the ppsh even more likely an option because there will be no fear of the enemy picking it up.
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Nope, the tripod maxim wasn't used that much and would be a last effort to put it ingame, if soviets doesn't need an mg team why we should bother. Also our plan by now is to have a wheeled Maxim not a tripod one. Besides is cooler in wheels.
Indeed, in the internal beta the DP-28 is droppable and the PTRD-41 too. But as we don't have models for those two as dropped weapons(e.g. we need a model of DP-28 lying on the ground) we are using the Bren lmg and the Boys AT rifle as placeholders.
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As for DP, the only good thing about it is it doesn't take all the weapon slots of the squad, so you can potentially pick up some shreks and mgs. And we all remember ppsh armed strelky can't do that (though I keep asking myself: why the hell not? Just make it a "replaceable" weapon in the settings!).
For the rest - it's rather unimpressive.
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Indeed, in the internal beta the DP-28 is droppable and the PTRD-41 too. But as we don't have models for those two as dropped weapons(e.g. we need a model of DP-28 lying on the ground) we are using the Bren lmg and the Boys AT rifle as placeholders.
Really? If you can extract the model or just have the original lying around couldn't you just rotate it so it's lying down? Either by some internal CoH mechanism (of which I know nothing) or at least by a modelling program (of which I know some).
Also I'm curious how you have the Boys AT rifle. Was that a stand-in for the PTRD when it wasn't available or a throw back from an older version of the Commonwealth faction?
Thanks.
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Hey, guys, back to topic please :)
Conclusions:
1. Soviets don't need HMG
2. Soviets won't get HMG
3. DP-28 is cool
4. DP-28 is underpowered
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cephalos, actually, if you don't mind, Maxim is NOT, i repeat, NOT Heavy Machine Gun. :D :D :D
To others
Another fact.
I don't understand, earlier, what you are talking about, that the British Army in the game have not a MG!!!
Only today i play with a GB army ...
WHAT??? WHAT DO I SAY NOW? YOU DO NOT MIND?
They have a BRENT!!!
CARRIER with MG!! Soon, you can upgrade this thing with HMG!
2, pair, two MG on one amored platform can be builded from the beginning!!!
You can do anithing with this ... maneuverable defence, infantry like attack, full scale armoring attack ... this thing CAN STOP the Tiger!!!
Actually, with tactically corrected use, brent can rule the "light" battlefield.
And you know that, saying to me, that the Britains DOES NOT have MG!!!!
You can say, "RKKA have 2 light tanks ... shut up!!"
Thay have, but you must grasp a sources, build a "thing", upgrade this for LT production ... and build this ... if you still have a territories & points!!!!!
You are all saying to me that this game is only for fun??
May be you thinking, "that russians is dummy, thay can eat everything!!"
... liers & hypocrites ... on a "soft language."
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You are all saying to me that this game is only for fun??
May be you thinking, "that russians is dummy, thay can eat everything!!"
... liers & hypocrites ... on a "soft language."
Calm down, dude. Noone here is against the Soviet Union or Russia (well, at least the most are not) nor thinks Russians are dumb and "eat everything". I don't know if you have a complex or what, but it is not the first time that this is happening. And please stop being insulting - if you read the forum rules, you'd know why.
Noone will take you serious anymore when you argue in this way.
Thank you for accepting this. ;)
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@Sturmovik
So, is the Maxim a Light Machine Gun or a Sub Machine Gun? Of course is a Heavy Machine Gun. Could you stop this attitude? Soviets won't have a HMG in their ranks, afaik no matter how you feel.
That aside, we should continue with the discussion of the DP-28 as @cephalos suggested (don't know why the Maxim thing came out btw), otherwise this thread could be closed or your OT posts deleted.
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@Sturmovik
So, is the Maxim a Light Machine Gun or a Sub Machine Gun? Of course is a Heavy Machine Gun. Could you stop this attitude? Soviets won't have a HMG in their ranks, afaik no matter how you feel.
That aside, we should continue with the discussion of the DP-28 as @cephalos suggested (don't know why the Maxim thing came out btw), otherwise this thread could be closed or your OT posts deleted.
May be there are diffirent ways to name an MG a Heavy MG.
But, HMG is DSHK, 12,7 mm.
After all, Russians does not have a difference with light, heavy or anything else.
PD-28 - hand held MG. (Infantry unit)
Maxim - mounted MG (infantry company, battalion)
DSHK - large caliber mounted MG (-II-)
That was tactical & perpose "difference".
Actually, AK-47 in the western weapon reviews named the Machine Gun. First reason - safety lock. First position after lock is auto, then single fire.
That fact take a smile.
Mostly correct name is machine carbine. ... but Machine gun ... MG for us is DSHK, Maxim, Pecheneg ...
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back on topic, I think everyone will be more than satisfied with the new DP-28's. So no need to be frantic about it, I've been there trust me ;) :)
Also I see no reasons for soviets needing a buildable HMG, steal one from wehr! :P
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back on topic, I think everyone will be more than satisfied with the new DP-28's. So no need to be frantic about it, I've been there trust me ;) :)
Also I see no reasons for soviets needing a buildable HMG, steal one from wehr! :P
Did work the new icon for soviet HMG Team? :P
I haven't tried myself yet.
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On topic:
DP-28 needs serious buff, or it will be totally unworthy this 60 mun spent on 2 machine guns. Increasing supression rate seems fair to me, how about you?
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back on topic, I think everyone will be more than satisfied with the new DP-28's. So no need to be frantic about it, I've been there trust me ;) :)
Also I see no reasons for soviets needing a buildable HMG, steal one from wehr! :P
This.
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back on topic, I think everyone will be more than satisfied with the new DP-28's. So no need to be frantic about it, I've been there trust me ;) :)
Also I see no reasons for soviets needing a buildable HMG, steal one from wehr! :P
1) +1
2) The shame of it all! (The mighty Russian steamroller... stops to steal MG42s for support) though he's right...
From what I can gather, the only real issue is whether the DP-28 changes fix the "problem) i.e.
Hey, guys, back to topic please :)
Conclusions:
1. Soviets don't need HMG
2. Soviets won't get HMG
3. DP-28 is cool
4. DP-28 is underpowered
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As the hold ground ability is told to be useless, so why bother to keep them. Yes... my idead could be same like some guys above, just abandon it, make a new ability that the Dp-28 squad can suppressed and pin down enemy inf immediately in a very short time to make room for a ppsh's charge. Make the DP both more tatical and useful. Why we have to think that LMG is for defense anyway, doese it sound like "Brit is a defensive faction"?
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^^all of that has been re-worked
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good to know :)