Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Other discussions (Read-Only) => Eastern Front => Topic started by: Sturmovik on May 09, 2011, 03:41:28 PM
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(http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/foto/b/1/apps/1/120/1120862_plakat_ivanova_v.s._mi_pobedili_slava_nashemu_velikomu_narodu_narodu-pobeditelyu._1945_god..jpg)
Victory Day!!
Victory Day or 9 May marks the capitulation of Nazi Germany to the Soviet Union in the Second World War (also known as the Great Patriotic War in the Soviet Union and all post-Soviet states). It was first inaugurated in the fifteen republics of the Soviet Union, following the signing of the surrender document late in the evening on 8 May 1945 (after midnight, thus on 9 May, by Moscow Time). It happened after the original capitulation that Germany earlier agreed to the joint Allied forces of the Western Front. The Soviet government announced the victory early on 9 May after the signing ceremony in Berlin. Though the official inauguration happened in 1945 (which means it has been celebrated since 1946), the holiday became a non-labour day only in 1965 and only in some of the countries.
In communist East Germany, a Soviet-style "Victory Day" on 9 May was an official holiday from 1975 until the end of the republic in 1990. Prior to that, "Liberation Day" was celebrated on 8 May, between 1950 and 1966, and again on the 40th anniversary in 1985. Since 2002, the German state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern has observed a commemoration day known as the "Day of Liberation from National Socialism, and the End of the Second World War".
In 1988,[citation needed] before the dissolution of the Soviet Union, Victory Day ceased to be observed in Uzbekistan, but was partially restored in 1999 as Memorial/Remembrance Day. After their separation from the Soviet Union, the Baltic countries now commemorate the end of WWII on 8 May, the Victory in Europe Day. But many people in Baltic countries still gather to celebrate the Victory Day on 9 May.
History
Two separate capitulation events took place at the time. First, the capitulation to the Allied nations in Reims was signed on 7 May 1945, effective 23:01 CET 8 May. This date is commonly referred to as the V-E Day (Victory in Europe Day) in most western European countries. The other World War II victory day, the V-J day (Victory in Japan Day) is commemorated in August, and is of considerably lesser significance in Europe.
However, the Soviet Union's only representative in Reims was General Ivan Susloparov, the Military Liaison Mission Commander. General Susloparov's scope of authority was not entirely clear, and he had no means of immediate contact with the Kremlin, but nevertheless decided to sign for the Soviet side. Susloparov was caught off guard; he had no instructions from Moscow. But if he did not sign, he risked a German surrender without Soviet participation. However, he noted that it could be replaced with a new version in the future. Joseph Stalin was later displeased by these events, believing that the German surrender should have been accepted only by the envoy of the USSR Supreme command and signed only in Berlin and insisted the Reims protocol be considered preliminary, with the main ceremony to be held in Berlin, where Marshal Zhukov was at the time, as the latter recounts in his memoirs:
“[Quoting Stalin:] Today, in Reims, Germans signed the preliminary act on an unconditional surrender. The main contribution, however, was done by Soviet people and not by the Allies, therefore the capitulation must be signed in front of the Supreme Command of all countries of the anti-Hitler coalition, and not only in front of the Supreme Command of Allied Forces. Moreover, I disagree that the surrender was not signed in Berlin, which was the center of Nazi aggression. We agreed with the Allies to consider the Reims protocol as preliminary.”
Therefore, another ceremony was organized in a surviving manor in the outskirts of Berlin late on 8 May, when it was already 9 May in Moscow due to the difference in time zones. Field-Marshal Wilhelm Keitel submitted the capitulation of the Wehrmacht to Marshal Georgy Zhukov in the Soviet Army headquarters in Berlin-Karlshorst. To commemorate the victory in the war, the ceremonial Moscow Victory Parade was held in the Soviet capital on 24 June 1945 (four years and two days after the beginning of Operation Barbarossa - the invasion of the Soviet Union).
Celebration
During the Soviet Union's existence, 9 May was celebrated throughout the USSR and in the countries of the Eastern Bloc. Though the holiday was introduced in many Soviet republics approximately between 1946 and 1950, it only became a non-labour day in Ukrainian (1963) and Russian (1965) SSRs. In the latter one, a weekday off (usually a Monday) was given starting 1966 if 9 May was to fall on a weekend (Saturday or Sunday).
The celebration of Victory Day continued during subsequent years. The war became a topic of great importance in cinema, literature, history lessons at school, the mass media, and the arts. The ritual of the celebration gradually obtained a distinctive character with a number of similar elements: ceremonial meetings, speeches, lectures, receptions and fireworks.
After the fall of the communism in Central and Eastern Europe, most former USSR countries retained the celebration, though it was not formally celebrated by some of them. In Russia during 1990s the May 9 was not celebrated massively, because Soviet-style mass demonstrations did not fit in with the way in which liberals who were in power in Moscow communicated with the country’s residents. The situation changed when Vladimir Putin came to power. He started to promote the prestige of the governing regime and history, national holidays and commemorations all became a source for national self-esteem. Since then the Victory Day in Russia has increasingly been turning into a joyous celebration in which popular culture plays a great role. The celebration of the 60th anniversary of Victory Day in Russia in 2005 became the largest national and popular holiday since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Soviet and post-Soviet symbols associated with the Victory Day
(http://pics.livejournal.com/nmt_sin/pic/0001z38g)
The Soviet Banner of Victory (Russian: Знамя Победы, Znamya Pobedy) is the banner raised by the Red Army soldiers on the Reichstag building in Berlin, on April 30, 1945. It was raised by three Soviet soldiers: Alexei Berest, Mikhail Yegorov, and Meliton Kantaria, from Ukraine, Russia, and Georgia respectively.
The Victory Banner, made under battlefield conditions, is the official symbol of the Victory of the Soviet people against Nazi Germany during the second world war. It is also believed to be one of the national treasures of Russia and a symbol of the Pridnestrovye region. The Cyrillic inscription reads:
150th Rifle, Order of Kutuzov 2nd class, 'Idritskaya' Division, 79th Rifle Corps, 3rd Attack Army, 1st Byelorussian Front.
Although this flag was not the only one to be hoisted on the Reichstag, it was the first and only survivor of all the "official" flags especially prepared to be raised there. On May 9, during Victory Day parade in Moscow, a copy of Victory Banner is carried immediately behind the Russian flag by members of the 154th Moscow Commandant's Regiment Honor and Colors Guards.
According to the Law of the Russian Federation, the Banner of Victory is to be stored forever in a place which provides its safety and public availability.
Ribbon of Saint George, colloquially known as George's Ribbon (Георгиевская ленточка): originally associated with the Order of St. George (officers) and the St. George Cross (enlisted ranks) of the Russian Empire, the nation's highest award for military valor. It was reintroduced in the Soviet Union and used for the Order of Glory and the Medal For the Victory Over Germany in the Great Patriotic War 1941–1945. The Order of St. George was reintroduced in the Russian Federation in 2000 as a military award.
During the Victory Day parade 2010, President Dmitry Medvedev and many other VIPs were seen wearing the commemorative ribbon on the lapel of their jackets.
Order of Victory
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Orden-Pobeda-Marshal_Vasilevsky.jpg)
The Order of Victory (Russian: Орден "Победa", Orden "Pobeda") was the highest military decoration in the Soviet Union, and one of the rarest orders in the world. The order was awarded only to Generals and Marshals for successfully conducting combat operations involving one or more army groups and resulting in a "successful operation within the framework of one or several fronts resulting in a radical change of the situation in favor of the Red Army." In its history, it has been awarded twenty times to thirteen Soviet leaders and five foreign leaders, with one revocation.
Order History
The order was proposed by Colonel N. S. Neyelov, who was serving at the Soviet Army Rear headquarters around June 1943. The original name that Colonel Neyelov suggested was Order for Faithfulness to the Homeland; however, it was given its present name around October of that year.[1] The order was officially adopted on November 8, 1943. The first awarding of the order was on April 10, 1944 and it was presented to Marshalls Aleksandr Vasilevsky and Georgy Zhukov, and Joseph Stalin as Commander-in-Chief of the Soviet Armed Forces. The order was also bestowed to top commanders of the Allied forces. Every order was presented during World War II, except for the 1978 award to Leonid Brezhnev. Brezhnev's award was revoked posthumously in 1989 for not meeting the requirements for the award.
Like other orders awarded by Communist nations, the Order of Victory could be awarded more than once to the same individual. In total, the order was presented twenty times to seventeen people (including Brezhnev).
Unlike all other Soviet orders, the Order of Victory had no serial number on it, the number was only mentioned in the award certificate. After a holder of the Order of Victory died, the award was to be given back to the state. The awards are now preserved by the Diamond Fund in the Moscow Kremlin. Notable exceptions are Dwight D. Eisenhower's Order of Victory, which is on display at the United States National Archives Building in Washington D.C., and Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery's Order of Victory, which is on display at the Imperial War Museum in London.
Construction details
The Order is made out of platinum in the form of a pentangular star with rays between the arms, measuring 72 mm in diameter. The star is studded with 174 diamonds weighing a total of 16 carats (3.2 g), while the arms of the star are made out of synthetic rubies. In the center of the star is a silver medallion, with the Moscow Kremlin wall, the Spasskaya Tower, and Lenin's Mausoleum depicted in gold surrounded by bands of laurel and oak also colored in gold. The laurel and oak are bound with a red banner. The sky in the background is inlaid with blue enamel. Against the sky, the letters "СССР" (USSR) appear in gold centered on the top of the medallion, while the word "Победа" (Victory) is displayed on the red banner at the bottom.
Who the main designer of the order was remains uncertain; however, the current design was chosen by Joseph Stalin on October 20, 1943. Instead of being made at a mint, each Order was made in a jeweler's workshop.
Dwight D. Eisenhower had his star valued by an American jeweler; he told Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, who was interested in receiving such a prestigious award himself, that the stones were "fakes".
Ribbon
The ribbons of various Soviet orders have been combined to create the Order Ribbon. The total length of the ribbon is 44 mm and it is mostly worn on the field uniform. The following featured orders are depicted on the ribbon (read from outside towards the center):
Order of Glory (Орден Славы/Orden Slavy). Orange with black center stripe
Order of Bogdan Khmelnitsky (Орден Богдана Хмельницкого/Orden Bogdana Khmelnitskogo). Light blue stripe
Order of Alexander Nevsky (Орден Александра Невского/Orden Aleksandra Nevskogo). Dark red stripe
Order of Kutuzov (Орден Кутузова/Orden Kutuzova). Dark blue stripe
Order of Suvorov (Орден Суворова/Orden Suvorova). Green stripe
Order of Lenin (Орден Ленина/Orden Lenina). Large Red stripe (center section)
One of the famous attribute of the Victory Day in the USSR & Russia is the song Журавли/Cranes.
Мне кажется порою, что солдаты,
С кровавых не пришедшие полей,
Не в землю нашу полегли когда-то,
А превратились в белых журавлей.
Они, до сей поры, с времен тех дальних,
Летят и подают нам голоса.
Не потому ль так часто и печально
Мы замолкаем, глядя в небеса.
Летит, летит по небу клин усталый,
Летит в тумане на исходе дня.
И в том строю есть промежуток малый -
Быть может это место для меня.
Настанет день, и с журавлиной стаей
Я поплыву в такой же сизой мгле.
Из-под небес, по-птичьи окликая,
Всех вас, кого оставил на земле.
Мне кажется порою, что солдаты
С кровавых не пришедшие полей,
Не в землю нашу полегли когда-то,
А превратились в белых журавлей.
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It seems to me sometimes that all the soldiers,
Who never came from battles of the war,
Were not just laid into the dirt, but
Were turned into the cranes as white as snow.
So they are flying ever since those ages.
They call for us and may be that is why
The voice of them is full of burning sadness
And we keep silence looking into sky.
The flock of cranes is flying slow and sadly
Through colors of a sundown. I can see
That there is a gap between them, may be
It is a spot that's meant, my friend, for me.
There will be day and I will fly right there,
There will be day and may be it is close.
And from the skies above I will be sending
The voice for those I loved and left on earth.
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Translation variant
Sometimes it seems to me that soldiers,
Who didn't return from bloody fields,
Didn't lie down into our ground,
But turned into white cranes.
And they are flying and screaming to us from afar,
May be therefore we often ruefully falls silent?
Looking in the sky.
The weary wedge of cranes is flying, flying in the sky,
It flies in the fog at the end of day.
A small interval inside this wedge
Probably is reserved for me.
A day will come when me with cranes' flock,
Will fly in the same blue sky,
From the sky calling those, whom I left on the ground,
On birds' language
Sometimes it seems to me that soldiers,
Who didn't return from bloody fields,
Didn't lie down into our ground,
But turned into white cranes.
At the end of post translated text of the song "Victory Day"!
Victory Day!
Victory Day as it was far from us,
As in a fire extinct the piece of coal thawed.
There were versts, burnt, in a dust, -
This day we approached as could.
This Victory Day
Of gunpowder has become permeated with the smell,
It is a holiday
With grey streaks on temples.
It is pleasure
With tears in the face of.
Victory Day!
Victory Day!
Victory Day!
Days and nights at martin furnaces
Our Native land of eyes did not close.
Days and difficult conducted nights fight -
This day we approached as could.
This Victory Day
Of gunpowder has become permeated with the smell,
It is a holiday
With сединою on temples.
It is pleasure
With tears in the face of.
Victory Day!
Victory Day!
Victory Day!
Hi, mum, we have come back not all...
Barefoot to be run on dew!
Half of Europe, have walked, the half-earths, -
This day we approached as could.
This Victory Day
Of gunpowder has become permeated with the smell,
It is a holiday
With сединою on temples.
It is pleasure
With tears in the face of.
Victory Day!
Victory Day!
Victory Day!
Congatulations with the Victory under the nazism!!!
(NOT FOR DISCUSSING.)
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So do they celebrate Defeat Day in Germany? ;D
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I guess no. they must celebrate "Liberation from nazism" or something similiar.
Didn't Japan surrender on 2nd of September, not august?
This banner... is it this banner from this fameous picture when one solider is hanging it on Reichstag?
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I guess no. they must celebrate "Liberation from nazism" or something similiar.
Didn't Japan surrender on 2nd of September, not august?
This banner... is it this banner from this fameous picture when one solider is hanging it on Reichstag?
Yes, it is. It is an only survival banner on the Reichstag.
Banner was first time rised with out photography.
For the picture, team with banner will rise the banner again, but not on the highest place. it was very dangerous.
Celebrate "Liberation from nazism" ... Yeas true. But it was not fully official. Most of modern young mans remember with trouble that kind of celebration.
Japan ... 25 august ... true, official day. But some battle groups was surrender some later.
That was "strange" point between Soviet & US parts of war against Japan.
Kuantung army on the China can not be leaved alone like "islanders" ... Bigger part of them is defeated with RKKA.....
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yay! Victory day, i will be searching the news for the great parade in red square!
(http://www.sovmusic.ru/jpg/preview/ussr0035.jpg) (http://width=110height=150]http://www.sovmusic.ru/jpg/preview/ussr0067.jpg) (http://www.sovmusic.ru/jpg/preview/ussr0074.jpg) (http://www.sovmusic.ru/jpg/preview/ussr0073.jpg) (http://www.sovmusic.ru/jpg/preview/ussr0084.jpg)
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I guess no. they must celebrate "Liberation from nazism" or something similiar.
Actually, there's nothing going on. Anyway, congrats to all of you celebrating..^^
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I guess no. they must celebrate "Liberation from nazism" or something similiar.
Actually, there's nothing going on. Anyway, congrats to all of you celebrating..^^
Sadly, there is'nt even a small parade in France. Yesterday the president had a speech though it wasn't even reported in the news ::)
Happy Victory Day!!!!!!!!!!!
Red army choir - The May day of 1945 (Майский день сорок пятого года) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBd4ku4HXmY#)
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in my opinion no day to celebrate. i mean it was the day of stalin winning.
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To RedGuard - sorry, friend, was away for all day. Here're links for the parade this year. Video is in two parts:
http://www.tvzvezda.ru/schedule/specialprojects/content/201105091133-e0uk.htm/201105091326-a6kg.htm (http://www.tvzvezda.ru/schedule/specialprojects/content/201105091133-e0uk.htm/201105091326-a6kg.htm)
http://www.tvzvezda.ru/schedule/specialprojects/content/201105091133-e0uk.htm/201105091327-2nac.htm (http://www.tvzvezda.ru/schedule/specialprojects/content/201105091133-e0uk.htm/201105091327-2nac.htm)
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IJoe
I guess, i do not say that, but it was strange, whow our president shaking hand to the veterans ... looks like he do not care for this day & for their contribution to the victory. Looks like he is not from our country & veterans disturb to make money & luxury ... I hate this ...
And every previous parade "admit" with the stand streight position ... and president sitting on the chair!!! Why??? (rhetorical)
I woling with the march on the min street of my city with the parade twise. I feel that, may be responsibility some whow ... "behind" the outgoing generation.
Today parade ... i "mostly" do not like it.
Sorry it is not for the topic actually.
maxi1991
Yes, Stalin have a "hard mind work" to make a win from the hard time.
With him, there are many millions mans & soldiers making a victory.
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To RedGuard - sorry, friend, was away for all day. Here're links for the parade this year. Video is in two parts:
http://www.tvzvezda.ru/schedule/specialprojects/content/201105091133-e0uk.htm/201105091326-a6kg.htm (http://www.tvzvezda.ru/schedule/specialprojects/content/201105091133-e0uk.htm/201105091326-a6kg.htm)
http://www.tvzvezda.ru/schedule/specialprojects/content/201105091133-e0uk.htm/201105091327-2nac.htm (http://www.tvzvezda.ru/schedule/specialprojects/content/201105091133-e0uk.htm/201105091327-2nac.htm)
np comrade, I was beginning to think you left for the festival :) :P
thx for the news links!
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in my opinion no day to celebrate. i mean it was the day of stalin winning.
I would be glad if you could explain, develop your point of view. Just and only curious.
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in my opinion no day to celebrate. i mean it was the day of stalin winning.
I would be glad if you could explain, develop your point of view. Just and only curious.
Why bother? - Just read his other comments through the profile menu, and you'll get the point - he's and ss lover. Probably from one of those baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), that encourage ss death-brigades' veteran marches in their capitols' main streets.
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Its funny how the soviets in Berlin did the same as the US in Iwo jima. Raised the flag....then the army propaganda dudes come in in and say...'fuck that! The flag is too small, go do it again' lol
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Its funny how the soviets in Berlin did the same as the US in Iwo jima. Raised the flag....then the army propaganda dudes come in in and say...'fuck that! The flag is too small, go do it again' lol
They do that no matter the country or the time, but why do you write it here, in the Victory day branch?
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Regardless of your feelings or political opinions you still must respect the great victory the Soviet Union accomplished 66 years ago. It was a victory for Stalin but it was much more a victory of the Russian people never give in or give up attitude. Congratulations once again on the greatest victory in history.
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It was a victory for Stalin
No comrade, it was victory for communism most importantly, it was a victory for the soviets and their valor, and a glorious triumph over evil.
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It was a victory for Stalin
No comrade, it was victory for communism most importantly, it was a victory for the soviets and their valor, and a glorious triumph over evil.
LOL! Reading this topic reminds me we are not in the 21. centuary, and back in 1984. The freedom comes on treads you think?
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It was a victory for Stalin
No comrade, it was victory for communism most importantly, it was a victory for the soviets and their valor, and a glorious triumph over evil.
LOL! Reading this topic reminds me we are not in the 21. centuary, and back in 1984. The freedom comes on treads you think?
Well, Hitler, nor his rotten "kameraden", weren't much about giving freedom, or even mere right to live. That is, unless you're "true arian". Then your contempt is quite understandable.
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It was a victory for Stalin
No comrade, it was victory for communism most importantly, it was a victory for the soviets and their valor, and a glorious triumph over evil.
LOL! Reading this topic reminds me we are not in the 21. centuary, and back in 1984. The freedom comes on treads you think?
Well, Hitler, nor his rotten "kameraden", weren't much about giving freedom, or even mere right to live. That is, unless you're "true arian". Then your contempt is quite understandable.
Well, I'm no arian, but, I'm Hungarian, so understand my statement, that I'm not a big fan of the communism, nor Hitlerism. Truble is with you guys (no offens), that you think that "Who is not with us that is our enemie". So this attitude freaks me out that I'm not agreeing with the communist idealogy I'm a nazi.
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I see a flame war starting here. Guys, give a break. ;)
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boys just a reminder we have a sense of class and professionalism to uphold here, as CoH's most succesful and developed mod. OT plz, If you dont like victory day or something plz try to avoid provoking those members who are trying to celebrate theirs. thx comrades :)
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It was a victory for Stalin
No comrade, it was victory for communism most importantly, it was a victory for the soviets and their valor, and a glorious triumph over evil.
LOL! Reading this topic reminds me we are not in the 21. centuary, and back in 1984. The freedom comes on treads you think?
Well, Hitler, nor his rotten "kameraden", weren't much about giving freedom, or even mere right to live. That is, unless you're "true arian". Then your contempt is quite understandable.
Well, I'm no arian, but, I'm Hungarian, so understand my statement, that I'm not a big fan of the communism, nor Hitlerism. Truble is with you guys (no offens), that you think that "Who is not with us that is our enemie". So this attitude freaks me out that I'm not agreeing with the communist idealogy I'm a nazi.
Oh! So you're not nazi?
What a relief!
Well, guess what - I'm not a communist! [That all said bears a sing of sarcasm. Just so that you know]
Still, I do believe, that the Red Army liberated SU, and the Europe (though for that latter it was, in fact, rather comfortable under fascists, for the most part) from the plague of national socialism - ideology inhuman even in theory (unlike communism, that theoretically is just fine). So anyone denying any of what I have said is definitely no friend of mine.
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Its funny how the soviets in Berlin did the same as the US in Iwo jima. Raised the flag....then the army propaganda dudes come in in and say...'fuck that! The flag is too small, go do it again' lol
:D :D
You are so funny boy.
It is a GREAT difference between Iwo Jima & Berlin.
US victory Iwo Jima is a local victory & propaganda action for the future Japan invasion.
Fall of Berlin is historical act that great war against nazism is officially over. It is different events, dude. :) :) :)
Thats why red flag & thats photos is a relic.
You are not historian?? ;D Ah, i forgot one thing ... it is a game forum ...
To all
Actually USSR providing open combat & NKVD sponsored anti-diversion operations from the early 1939 year, when USA providing anti Japan rough isoliacionism. Why Japan decide go to war, when been placed that far from Europe ... may be J. have no other way ...
Please cease nationalistic fire, or i will translate "Not White" for anti AXIS & anti pro axis documents from unsecreted archives of NKVD on the separately thread. I will provide active defence.
It's will be looks like a nuke explotion on the sand-box.
That was not too funny for all.
Cease Fire!!! This thread is not for blood-letting. (Anti-kommunists & anti-USSR provokers especially.)
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Fascism didn't begin or end with Nazi Germany. There was a victory of war, of a stronger force overcoming a weaker force, that is all. My two cents.
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There was a victory of war, of a stronger force overcoming a weaker force, that is all. My two cents.
Actually, in 1941, WHOLE Europe is a volunteered to help a conquer a power of asia at the minimum.
In 1941, is a fact, USSR almost alone, was on face-to-face confrontation with nazi oriented countries, heading with Nazi Germany. GB & USA is not that serious powers on that time.
USA is busy on a Pacific Ocean, only on 1942-43 they are battling with the African & Italian Fascism.
GB is fortifying defense of the "Metropolis" ... counting, that the Nazi is primary threat, then they are facing with Karl Dönitz's menace.
Only in 1944 Allies with the pressure open the Second Front, ... when Operation Bagration is already crushing the Eastern Nazi Front.
Fascism didn't begin or end with Nazi Germany.
Yes, agree, Fascism didn't end with hte destrucsion on Germany on 1945 ...
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Fascism didn't begin or end with Nazi Germany. There was a victory of war, of a stronger force overcoming a weaker force, that is all. My two cents.
That much is true - USA still endorses fascist regimes all over the face of the planet, and acts a fascist state itself. As well as its loyal allies.
Well, at least we are free from their bombing raids and "peace keeping" mass murders.
But all this crap has no relation to the Great Victory of OUR people over the rotten fascist scums 66 years ago. So take your pathetic pennies to some other porch, where it's needed.
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It was a victory for Stalin
No comrade, it was victory for communism most importantly, it was a victory for the soviets and their valor, and a glorious triumph over evil.
LOL! Reading this topic reminds me we are not in the 21. centuary, and back in 1984. The freedom comes on treads you think?
Well, Hitler, nor his rotten "kameraden", weren't much about giving freedom, or even mere right to live. That is, unless you're "true arian". Then your contempt is quite understandable.
Well, I'm no arian, but, I'm Hungarian, so understand my statement, that I'm not a big fan of the communism, nor Hitlerism. Truble is with you guys (no offens), that you think that "Who is not with us that is our enemie". So this attitude freaks me out that I'm not agreeing with the communist idealogy I'm a nazi.
Oh! So you're not nazi?
What a relief!
Well, guess what - I'm not a communist! [That all said bears a sing of sarcasm. Just so that you know]
Still, I do believe, that the Red Army liberated SU, and the Europe (though for that latter it was, in fact, rather comfortable under fascists, for the most part) from the plague of national socialism - ideology inhuman even in theory (unlike communism, that theoretically is just fine). So anyone denying any of what I have said is definitely no friend of mine.
In theory every ideology is perfect, but in real life it isn't. And please read my replys properly, I was never deny historical facts but I wasn't talking about how the other system is better. It's the same sht in different packages, and people prefer one or the other it's personal taste. Army aren't for liberaton it's for homeland defense or conquer force (see in the current middle-east conflicts for example). Anyway it's pointless explaining anything except "how great was the SU" becouse the discussion ends "Oh, you're a nazi" or "hey my Tavaris, the Red army was full of saints and gave food to our children". This two options are in this forum. It's the same in balancing thread, I put my trust to the Devs to balance it properly beacouse when someone says something wrong to the SU faction, he is a "nazi fanboy". Nothing more to say about it. Signing off.
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Look you, TheReaper, this ain't no "balance thread". And yes, compared to the fucking nazis (of all nations there were) the Red Army was "full of saints" - just compare the number of civilian casualties on both sides, this will give you some idea of what you are talking about (apparently, you don't know much about it).
Anyway, this thread is for and about OUR, Soviet, Victory day - the 9th of may, so go spare your shit somewhere else, if you can't keep it together.
The only reason why I go into this bullshit, is because the celebration was yesterday. So you won't muck that Holy day with your dirty words.
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Look you, TheReaper, this ain't no "balance thread". And yes, compared to the fucking nazis (of all nations there were) the Red Army was "full of saints" - just compare the number of civilian casualties on both sides, this will give you some idea of what you are talking about (apparently, you don't know much about it).
Anyway, this thread is for and about OUR, Soviet, Victory day - the 9th of may, so go spare your shit somewhere else, if you can't keep it together.
The only reason why I go into this bullshit, is because the celebration was yesterday. So you won't muck that Holy day with your dirty words.
Sigh! What just I expected....
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But all this crap has no relation to the Great Victory of OUR people over the rotten fascist scums 66 years ago. So take your pathetic pennies to some other porch, where it's needed.
Your nationalistic pride is showing. It wasn't one people vs another people, it was just people vs people, like any war. And like any war, all it did was lay the seeds of animosity for a future war. I'm not attacking you or Victory Day or your celebrating Victory Day, though in the grand scheme of things I don't agree with it. I just like to discuss global affairs in abstraction.
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Guys, calm down, please.
The Victory Day seems very important for IJoe and Sturmovik ( and other lads too), for sure they are angry about every claim that this wasn't victory of people of Russia. I'd rather say that was victory of all mankind, who defeated unhuman, violen, oppressive totalitarian system. I'm not a nazi fanboy, thought I don't like communists aswell. It's just about how you interpretate this day - I'll always think about 9th of may as a day when finally people of whole world prevailed and crushed nazism. If you have scales on your eyes, you will see this day as a day of communism victory, or other stupid and pointless names. This will show others that you're narrow-minded. Be tolerant, because of untolerance we had systems like nazism or fascism.
You may get furious about that, but whatever Red Army did, we owe them, at least partially, respect, because they crushed Third Reich. Thanks to simple people, who were forced out of their homes to fight the war not for their lives, but for lives of their families, and for life in freedom, not nazi occupation.
Glory to them!
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Sigh... I should have forseen this, I'll lock this topic. Not that anyone cares.