Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Other discussions (Read-Only) => Eastern Front => Topic started by: DrRockzo1986 on June 29, 2011, 08:22:09 PM

Title: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on June 29, 2011, 08:22:09 PM
Alright Ive seen some MGs and Elites now its time for Medium tanks, so lets hear it.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paciat on June 29, 2011, 08:29:20 PM
PzIV. No other good tank saw action thruout the whole WWII.

If you are asking about the best tank that was designed in WWII it would be the Centurion.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on June 29, 2011, 08:35:36 PM
PzIV. No other good tank saw action thruout the whole WWII.

If you are asking about the best tank that was designed in WWII it would be the Centurion.

Lol nope just ones that saw action, note I didnt add assault guns or Tank Destroyers even though some are on Medium tank Chassis. And Technically Cromwells and Comets are considered Cruisers which seems to be a British tank only Classification so I added them as well
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Killar on June 29, 2011, 08:53:11 PM
Best in what?

- firepower
- speed
- reliability
- easy and cheap to produce
- saw action all over the war
- ...

You cant say "best" tank
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on June 29, 2011, 08:55:39 PM
Overall
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Cranialwizard on June 29, 2011, 09:54:51 PM
PzIV. No other good tank saw action thruout the whole WWII.

If you are asking about the best tank that was designed in WWII it would be the Centurion.

Lol nope just ones that saw action, note I didnt add assault guns or Tank Destroyers even though some are on Medium tank Chassis. And Technically Cromwells and Comets are considered Cruisers which seems to be a British tank only Classification so I added them as well

Wouldn't the sherman firefly classify as a tank destroyer?

Concerning your two Italian combatants for the contest:
The Carro Armato P-40 was only ordered in the amount of 1200 but only about 5 had ever finished by the time of the Italian's surrendering. The P-40 was designed to be a fairly good tank, however classified as a heavy tank. British 17 pounders could pierce their armor but anything lower would have difficulty penetrating. Only a few saw combat after germany took over Fiat-Anzio

The Fiat M11/39? Well...lets just say that wasn't a completely serious tank. It wielded the weak 37mm main gun and could easily be penetrated by most AT weapons. It was only produced in small numbers of about 100-200 and it's main flaw was the fixation of it's turret, while the turret was not completely fixed and could still turn a bit it could not turn fast or far enough to engage flanking armor.

I think a better candidate for Italian armor would be Fiat's M13/40. It was produced in much larger numbers.

Overall I agree with Paciat on the Panzer IV. The Panther overall was a better tank but saw less combat and wasn't produced as much as a Panzer IV.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on June 29, 2011, 10:41:49 PM
Sorry I was just running the list of Medium tanks from Wikis "Tanks in World War II" section and for whatever reason the Fiat M13/40 wasn't listed but it is classified as a Medium tank so ill add it. THANKS ;D. As for the sherman firefly idk what to say other than its classified as a medium tank on the above mentioned site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_World_War_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_World_War_II)

Post Merge: June 29, 2011, 10:48:00 PM
Im really suprised no one has voted for the M4 Sherman, historians make such a huge deal about it being a good tank.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: CrimsonDragoon on June 29, 2011, 11:43:00 PM
I am surprized that T34 has just 1 point. Mine   :-X
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Cranialwizard on June 30, 2011, 12:05:48 AM
Im really suprised no one has voted for the M4 Sherman, historians make such a huge deal about it being a good tank.

The only reason shermans were considered good medium tanks was for their spammability, literally. The Allied War Machine had geared production up to tanks per minute when America joined the war, and shermans had lacking armor and not enough firepower to penetrate german Panther and Tiger tanks, which became mainstream after looking at soviet aggressive tanks like the T-34.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Killar on June 30, 2011, 12:11:45 AM
That poll is stupid. There is no "best" tank.

f.e. t34 is considered the best tank in ww2. It was a crappy tank. primitive constructed, loud, not comfortable, realiability  ::), ...
but in mass numbers (easy to produce) it could dominate. So its the best tank because it was of most success?
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: CrimsonDragoon on June 30, 2011, 12:14:15 AM
That poll is stupid. There is no "best" tank.

f.e. t34 is considered the best tank in ww2. It was a crappy tank. primitive constructed, loud, not comfortable, realiability  ::), ...
but in mass numbers (easy to produce) it could dominate. So its the best tank because it was of most success?
Before 1943 it WAS the best tank
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on June 30, 2011, 12:15:04 AM
Thats why its an opinion based poll

Post Merge: June 30, 2011, 12:16:19 AM
Im having a really hard time trying to figure out how to classify these British tanks
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Killar on June 30, 2011, 12:17:47 AM
That poll is stupid. There is no "best" tank.

f.e. t34 is considered the best tank in ww2. It was a crappy tank. primitive constructed, loud, not comfortable, realiability  ::), ...
but in mass numbers (easy to produce) it could dominate. So its the best tank because it was of most success?
Before 1943 it WAS the best tank
No it wasnt. Even the soviets said the panzerIII was the better tank BEFORE the war began because of the things i mentioned before. 50mm gun could destroy a t34
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Seeme on June 30, 2011, 03:13:16 AM
There was no "best tank", its what tank had the best crew.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paladin88 on June 30, 2011, 05:40:23 AM
Ha ha, not true Seeme, no matter how good the crew is inside a stuart its as equally dead as any other vs. a tiger. Hee hee, its like in WWI, where before the Camel (a very old fighter bi plane) was introduced there were many German aces yet just shortly after the introduction of the Camel, all their numbers sharply declined? Why, the reason was simply before that the allied fighters were obsolete, the German triplane being faster and more manoeverable simply cut the Pups to pieces.

The camel negated those advantages of the German triplanes and then it became a real test of skill you know?

As for the Firefly, it was still a tank just with a 17 pounder rather than 75/76mm.

This poll is v. opinionated so I'll hold my vote for now :P
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: RedGuard on June 30, 2011, 06:09:10 AM
I am surprized that T34 has just 1 point. Mine   :-X
I voted t34, but im not suprised at all. this is axis front forums  :P
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paciat on June 30, 2011, 06:45:50 AM
Should Panther be on the list? Allmost every country considered it to be a heavy tank. Thats also why I chosen PzIV.
I am surprized that T34 has just 1 point. Mine   :-X
Thats probably becouse 3 T34 were destroyed for every StugIII lost...
Soviet tanks had poor visibility, crew comfort (tired crews dont fight well) and less accurate guns.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: RedGuard on June 30, 2011, 07:01:07 AM
Thats probably becouse 3 T34 were destroyed for every StugIII lost...
Soviet tanks had poor visibility, crew comfort (tired crews dont fight well) and less accurate guns.
thats why bullets come in magazines of more than 1. t34 won the war, thats the most important stat
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paladin88 on June 30, 2011, 07:06:33 AM
Should Panther be on the list? Allmost every country considered it to be a heavy tank. Thats also why I chosen PzIV.
I am surprized that T34 has just 1 point. Mine   :-X
Thats probably becouse 3 T34 were destroyed for every StugIII lost...
Soviet tanks had poor visibility, crew comfort (tired crews dont fight well) and less accurate guns.

Umm, There were like 10 times the number of T34s then there were Stug III, I dont think that was a valid argument since its easier to hit and kill 3 T34 tanks than one measely StugIII now isn't it?

Ha ha ha, Like Red said: T34 won the Russians WWII so there's nothing you can really say to recitify that now is there.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Blackbishop on June 30, 2011, 07:08:19 AM
Thats probably becouse 3 T34 were destroyed for every StugIII lost...
Soviet tanks had poor visibility, crew comfort (tired crews dont fight well) and less accurate guns.
thats why bullets come in magazines of more than 1. t34 won the war, thats the most important stat
If T-34 won the war, it wasn't because was the best medium tank but because they had a lot of these. If 3 T-34 were lost to a StuGIII there were already other 7 T-34 rolling out.

So, I'm afraid this is not relevant for the current discussion.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paladin88 on June 30, 2011, 07:09:23 AM
:D, same gist different stats lol
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paciat on June 30, 2011, 07:38:31 AM
Thats probably becouse 3 T34 were destroyed for every StugIII lost...
Soviet tanks had poor visibility, crew comfort (tired crews dont fight well) and less accurate guns.
thats why bullets come in magazines of more than 1. t34 won the war, thats the most important stat
If T-34 won the war, it wasn't because was the best medium tank but because they had a lot of these.
Yep. If ease of production is a factor then the best tank of the war is the Jeep. :P ;D
650.000 build!!! Great mobility, low profile, many versions, reliable...
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paladin88 on June 30, 2011, 08:16:32 AM
Yep, but were talking about med tanks weren't we
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Desert_Fox on June 30, 2011, 11:41:18 AM
I am surprized that T34 has just 1 point. Mine   :-X
I voted t34, but im not suprised at all. this is axis front forums  :P

Don't be too sure of this, I'm convinced to the contrary, it's enought read the people post.  :P
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: cephalos on June 30, 2011, 01:15:53 PM
at least you don't name everyone here as 'nazi'  ::)

My vote goes for Panther. T-34 was less armoured, had worse armament, it might be faster and easier to produce, but panther outclassed T-34 is 1v1 with an ease.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paladin88 on June 30, 2011, 01:27:57 PM
The Pershing was reclassified as a med Tank after the war.

As for the comments regarding EF

Lets nerf the Soviets. Is the general gist of all comments.

I never hear lets nerf axis cause they are OP. (Which is what I want to see)

I know I'm gonna be called a Soviet fanboy but to be absolutely honest I play Germans more than anything else so I know, with the correct play Germans can rape any strategy Allies come up with. As an example this is a stupid match against an expert bot. Bots make poor arguments for balance issues but there are just things that Bots do that demonstrate the weaknesses of the armies used...
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on July 01, 2011, 12:01:56 AM
Ha ha 19  votes later and still 0 for the Sherman. I consider it to be a lot like the T 34 in that it was Mass produce to overrun the germans and had to upgrade its gun to stand a chance against better german armour. guess there arent any American fanboys on this forum. ;)
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paciat on July 01, 2011, 12:46:35 AM
Ha ha 19  votes later and still 0 for the Sherman. I consider it to be a lot like the T 34 in that it was Mass produce to overrun the germans and had to upgrade its gun to stand a chance against better german armour. guess there arent any American fanboys on this forum. ;)
If there was a Best TD topic I would vote for M-18 - the best TD of WWII. 8)
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Sommarkatze on July 01, 2011, 01:33:20 AM
I took M3 Lee. Because its looks cool and I like to tr0ll you guys with your t34s and panthers and all that stuff :P

And its name is Lee. Like Bruce Lee Hajaka! :>
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Blackbishop on July 01, 2011, 02:16:44 AM
I took M3 Lee. Because its looks cool and I like to tr0ll you guys with your t34s and panthers and all that stuff :P

And its name is Lee. Like Bruce Lee Hajaka! :>
lol ;D
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Tankbuster on July 01, 2011, 09:20:45 AM
The Poll says it all ;D
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: RedGuard on July 01, 2011, 09:51:49 PM
the only thing this polls tells me is that forum is infested with axis fanboy

is there some kind of tonnage limit because the panther was almost double the weight of a t34

thats like comparing a panzer IV to an IS-2, which are closer in weight that a t34/panther
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: cephalos on July 01, 2011, 10:39:50 PM
the only thing this polls tells me is that forum is infested with axis fanboy

is there some kind of tonnage limit because the panther was almost double the weight of a t34

thats like comparing a panzer IV to an IS-2, which are closer in weight that a t34/panther

and I sometimes think that this forum is infested with narrow-minded Soviet fanboys. Eh, nevermind.

Both tanks, t-34 and Panther were awesome pieces of steel. The fact is that each of those two was better in some PARTICULAR stuff. Like T-34 in production, but Panther had far more better gun and optics.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: RedGuard on July 01, 2011, 10:42:35 PM
the only thing this polls tells me is that forum is infested with axis fanboy

is there some kind of tonnage limit because the panther was almost double the weight of a t34

thats like comparing a panzer IV to an IS-2, which are closer in weight that a t34/panther

and I sometimes think that this forum is infested with narrow-minded Soviet fanboys. Eh, nevermind.

soviet fanboys? yes, not as many as axis. narrow-minded? no
but really what a suprise that is, soviet mod forum has fans of soviets wow thats so strange and must not be allowed to happen

what i find stranger and a bit disturbing is that soviet mod forum has more axis fans than soviet
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paciat on July 01, 2011, 11:07:05 PM
what i find stranger and a bit disturbing is that soviet mod forum has more axis fans than soviet
[sarcasm]Especially since Germans have no sence of humor [/sarcasm]
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Blackbishop on July 01, 2011, 11:29:09 PM
RedGuard, could you stop the drama? It's just a poll. Also I find more disturbing that you think that all the users who voted for the Panther are axis fanboys for saying that it's better than T-34.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: RedGuard on July 01, 2011, 11:42:45 PM
thats not the reasoning behind my comment, and,
sorry you perceive that as drama I perceive it as a fact. if facts start drama maybe theres something inherently wrong in the situation
if you dont think its odd then I dunno what to tell ya
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Dann88 on July 01, 2011, 11:51:41 PM
I voted for the PzIV, Panther maybe is too big to be a medium tank... Its gun sure comes with a balance of accuracy and penetration, a medium amor and the sporty look (I dont know why but I always feel PzIV is a sport tank, like sport car).
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: cephalos on July 02, 2011, 12:34:12 AM
I voted for the PzIV, Panther maybe is too big to be a medium tank... Its gun sure comes with a balance of accuracy and penetration, a medium amor and the sporty look (I dont know why but I always feel PzIV is a sport tank, like sport car).

I have similiar feeling when looking at Panther.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Cranialwizard on July 02, 2011, 12:34:46 AM
thats not the reasoning behind my comment, and,
sorry you perceive that as drama I perceive it as a fact. if facts start drama maybe theres something inherently wrong in the situation
if you dont think its odd then I dunno what to tell ya

Voting for an axis tank in a poll Being an Axis fanboy
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Killar on July 02, 2011, 12:48:57 AM
the only thing this polls tells me is that forum is infested with axis fanboy
As a part of the Developer team you shouldnt do such comments. When you say that you show clearly that you're a soviet fanboy. It then tells me a lot about the balance of the soviet faction...
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Dann88 on July 02, 2011, 12:58:17 AM
Oh common, when you drive a cool sport car (or sport tank :)) do you care about its nationality? When something is cool, it's cool because it's cool that's all.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paciat on July 02, 2011, 01:00:41 AM
I voted for the PzIV, Panther maybe is too big to be a medium tank... Its gun sure comes with a balance of accuracy and penetration, a medium amor and the sporty look (I dont know why but I always feel PzIV is a sport tank, like sport car).
I have similiar feeling when looking at Panther.
Yep, take it out in the field and it will brake down or get stuck in mud. Thats why Panther cannot be the best WWII tank. It was too unreliable.
Also III Reich didnt won any major offensive using Panthers and any tank is good when you retreat. :-\
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on July 02, 2011, 03:53:13 AM
This is just a guess and Im not accusing anyone of doing this but I feel like some people voted for the in game CoH Panther and not the real life Panther, because Paciat is right it was very prone to breakdowns and seems like it was more a Pain than a Panther. But what do I know I wasnt there maybe it was extremely effective when it was actually functioning properly
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Tankbuster on July 02, 2011, 07:09:25 AM
Oh common, when you drive a cool sport car (or sport tank :)) do you care about its nationality? When something is cool, it's cool because it's cool that's all.
and The Panther kited the T-34
and it looks like a race car with a 75 mm gun 8)
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paladin88 on July 02, 2011, 12:47:32 PM
I guess the Panther may be in fact the best tank in WWII, Ha ha, ironic isn't it.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Sommarkatze on July 02, 2011, 02:48:08 PM
To me, it seems like ALL german tanks were attentionwhores when it comes maintenance. Always seems to breakdown. Otherwise they were great imo.

The fanboys dilemma. I often describe it like this when my friends find it weird when Iam holding for the germans in war movies and such.

Its like in Starwars. Your favorites are the galactic empire. Yes, they are evil and are destroying whole planets. But jesus christ that plus their armours and weapons and all that makes them super cool! :D

The same thing with the germans ^^ The russians I see like the Jar Jar Binks people whatahell they now are called XD Brute force warriors who will fight to the death for their motherland!

 (No. I dont say the russians are technical inferior.)

Owh and right. M3 Lee! Woooh! :D
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Killar on July 02, 2011, 05:11:36 PM
To me, it seems like ALL german tanks were attentionwhores when it comes maintenance. Always seems to breakdown. Otherwise they were great imo.

It is not possible to build a full working machine with no maintenance issues in within a few month. Remember the eurofighter did need 20 years of developing and building to become a realiable "product".

Panthers were needed asap for Kursk despite they were still far from finished. Thats the reason of the early breakdowns (the weight was much higher than planned) and engine fires.

The panzerIII and IV chassis had more time to develope. StugIII was very reliable.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paciat on July 02, 2011, 08:53:37 PM
Panthers were needed asap for Kursk despite they were still far from finished. Thats the reason of the early breakdowns (the weight was much higher than planned) and engine fires.
They should be fielded in 1945. Then Germans wouldnt have problems with them... becouse the war would allready ended. ::)

At Kursk Panthers brand new broke down so it wasnt a maintenance problem, it was a design problem. When Germans fixed those problems maintenance problems apeared.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Killar on July 02, 2011, 08:57:12 PM
Panthers were needed asap for Kursk despite they were still far from finished. Thats the reason of the early breakdowns (the weight was much higher than planned) and engine fires.
They should be fielded in 1945. Then Germans wouldnt have problems with them... becouse the war would allready ended. ::)

At Kursk Panthers brand new broke down so it wasnt a maintenance problem, it was a design problem. When Germans fixed those problems maintenance problems apeared.
That makes no sense. What are you trying to tell me?
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: RedGuard on July 02, 2011, 09:01:33 PM
I think he said they messed up designing them, and when the design flaws were finally worked out they still broke down anyway

superior german engineering
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Killar on July 02, 2011, 09:06:09 PM
I think he said they messed up designing them, and when the design flaws were finally worked out they still broke down anyway

superior german engineering
sigh^^

Then he didnt read my previous comment.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: maxi1991 on July 02, 2011, 09:45:20 PM
I think he said they messed up designing them, and when the design flaws were finally worked out they still broke down anyway

superior german engineering

Actually, Panther(and Tigers) were fixed and most of the breakdowns were due to beeing overused, because of vehicle shortage. Still Soviets lost many tanks due to failures like 2men turrets and no radios.

superior soviet engineering
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: RedGuard on July 02, 2011, 10:20:03 PM
I think he said they messed up designing them, and when the design flaws were finally worked out they still broke down anyway

superior german engineering

Actually, Panther(and Tigers) were fixed and most of the breakdowns were due to beeing overused, because of vehicle shortage. Still Soviets lost many tanks due to failures like 2men turrets and no radios.

superior soviet engineering
yeah superior alright, it won the war

theres story books dedicated to how axis tank crews tried to drive up a small hill with a light breeze and the tank broke down  :-X
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Killar on July 03, 2011, 08:50:07 AM
theres story books dedicated to how axis tank crews tried to drive up a small hill with a light breeze and the tank broke down  :-X
Can you show me these story books?
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: RedGuard on July 03, 2011, 10:06:31 AM
without doing extensive researching heres a few you can start with, quoted german engineers as saying their engines had an almost 80% mechanical failure in the field
Germany's Tiger Tanks:VK45.02 to TIGER II
Panzertruppen
The Last Battle

the specific book which follows a tiger tank crew around griping about its unreliability, name has escaped me but I will rediscover it and post it for you very good reads with relatively unbiased technical reporting

the books also unanimously agree that the panzer 4 series was outclassed by the t34 series, as do every other WWII expert I've ever encountered or read. and the panther is not a medium tank it weighs about as much as an IS-2  ;)
the panther tank weighs 1.2 tons less than an IS-2 at 44.8 tons compared to 46.0 tons

the panzer 4 and t34 weighed about 25 tons, thats a medium tank
an IS-2 will penetrate a panther at 2,500m using the BR-471 APHE 122mm round. the panther could do nothing like this
source http://www.battlefield.ru/is2_1.html (http://www.battlefield.ru/is2_1.html)
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Killar on July 03, 2011, 11:35:10 AM
link is broken.

But yeah panther was a medium tank from german point of view. Most allied "heavy" tanks were nearly the same weight.

Most problems about this "unrealiability" was that the tanks and their gears were designed for much ligher vehicles. Thats because armor protection was rapidly increased and also the weight.

In fact most tiger tanks in the normandy werent lost by fighting or an air attack. They were blown up by their own crews because they ran out of fuel or broke down.

Like i said some needed changes (better engine, better gear that could sustaine the wight) couldnt make they way in the tank, becuase the time for developing was too short, air raids destroyed factories to produce them, too few ressources ...

Panthers shared the same engine with tigers and kt. A new engine, which was turbo charged, was ready to produced when the war was over. But this engine could have speeded up a kt alot.

So there are more facts to look at than only to say germans were too dumb to build a tank.

I read the wiki entry about t34. This tank had alot of problems in the beginning too. gear braking down, engine fires, mostly unreliable. Before the war soviets and germans shared their technology in tank building. So a PanzerIII made its way to soviet union in 1940. After a comparison of the t34 and the panzerIII soviet engineers granted the german tank in most aspects to be better than their own tank. It had a more comfortable figthing compartment, better quality, more speed, engine was more quiet and easy to repair. But T34 had on the contrary had sloped armor and a better main gun.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Tankbuster on July 03, 2011, 12:37:06 PM
I cannot believe that nobody voted for the Sherman Firefly

It was supposed to be the counter to German heavies, I guess :P



Calculus Rocks
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: GodlikeDennis on July 03, 2011, 01:04:20 PM
My vote goes for P4. I think that's what Guderian would've voted for too.

The unreliability of the German tanks was mostly because of maintenance shortages and lack of decent fuel caused by the overextended supply lines. The variety of German tanks didn't help either. Parts had to be manufactured for each tank seperately whereas a mass production tank could easily have parts available.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Tankbuster on July 03, 2011, 03:40:55 PM
It seems that the M4 Shermans were destroyed by the dozen during WWII. But the Allies always had more. What exactly happened to them in the postwar period?

Calculus

dx/dt = v
dv/dt = a
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: GodlikeDennis on July 03, 2011, 04:17:50 PM
Scrapped or sold to nations around the world like the Russians did with theirs. Many Israeli tanks are based on the M4 Sherman I believe.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Tankbuster on July 03, 2011, 06:03:50 PM
Scrapped or sold to nations around the world like the Russians did with theirs. Many Israeli tanks are based on the M4 Sherman I believe.
Who would buy the M4s unless they were for free. Also Wikipedia says that they were used for farming. :o yep farming.

Calculus

dx/dt = v
dv/dt = a
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paciat on July 03, 2011, 07:40:12 PM
Scrapped or sold to nations around the world like the Russians did with theirs. Many Israeli tanks are based on the M4 Sherman I believe.
Who would buy the M4s unless they were for free. Also Wikipedia says that they were used for farming. :o yep farming.
I heared a story where 2 Wespe were used for farming after the war... cause they war free.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Sommarkatze on July 03, 2011, 08:50:38 PM
I thought Shermans were used in Korea? At least some :o
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: RedGuard on July 03, 2011, 09:28:23 PM
that israeli war, 7 day war iirc, was like a WWII tank battle with some modern tanks thrown in

Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Dann88 on July 04, 2011, 02:07:53 AM
I want a Su-85 for free :(
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Tankbuster on July 04, 2011, 08:00:46 AM
I want a Su-85 for free :(
What would you do with it?
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paciat on July 04, 2011, 08:19:16 AM
I thought Shermans were used in Korea? At least some :o
Whats strange about that? They were realiable tanks that could be upgunned easiely.
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrbIEuiOatFj71As0F4SerNas2nZ9dxK7NEbyHr8DyM4twQT9MYQ)
Its not a Firefly. It has a 105 gun and destroyed a T-54!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postwar_Sherman_tanks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postwar_Sherman_tanks)
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Tankbuster on July 04, 2011, 09:53:48 AM
105 howitzer?
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on July 04, 2011, 12:43:27 PM
Quote from: Wikipedia
Sherman M-4 (Sherman degem Bet prior to 1956) - Israeli designation of any Sherman model armed with the 105 mm howitzer M4.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Tankbuster on July 04, 2011, 03:50:20 PM
Wikipedia says that they were used in the 1965 Indo-Pak war on both sides. Interestingly, Pakistan never won a war with India.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Dann88 on July 05, 2011, 09:11:35 AM
If I have a Su-85, I'll drive it, use the gun to ram the door house of a girl and ask her a dinner. I'm sure she won't deny my invitation :D.
Did the US use shermans in vietnam war? I heard some of US inf still use thompson in early part of the war :P
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: RedGuard on July 05, 2011, 09:36:01 AM
I dont think they used the sherman in the same way they did in WWII, if it was used at all it was probably a howitzer variant for indirect fire mobile arty, or dozer for construction/demolition.

the patton was the MBT in vietnam. it was a huge leap in survivability at the time.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Tankbuster on July 05, 2011, 11:50:27 AM
If I have a Su-85, I'll drive it, use the gun to ram the door house of a girl and ask her a dinner. I'm sure she won't deny my invitation :D.
Hmm, I remain Skeptical.
Did the US use shermans in vietnam war? I heard some of US inf still use thompson in early part of the war :P
The Thompson was an excellent SMG. It could have been used. Not a chance for the Sherman. The US already had M48 Pattons
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paciat on July 05, 2011, 12:20:04 PM
I dont think they used the sherman in the same way they did in WWII, if it was used at all it was probably a howitzer variant for indirect fire mobile arty, or dozer for construction/demolition.
Howitzer?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/M51-Isherman-latrun-1.jpg/220px-M51-Isherman-latrun-1.jpg)
Thats not a howitzer. Thats a modern tank gun. Sherman M-51 proved itself capable of fighting newer, heavier tanks like the Soviet-built T-54/55/T-62 just like PanzerIV proved itself at fighting T-34 after its gun was upgraded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Sherman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Sherman)
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Dann88 on July 05, 2011, 08:33:50 PM
Now the Sherman look bad-ass like the other soviet tanks :). Are we gonna have the next poll "Best heavy tank in WII" and "Best light tank in WWII"?
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: vonklaus on July 05, 2011, 09:03:29 PM
alot of WW2 stuff was used in Korea by America because initially the Americans were caught off guard so the 1st troops in were those stationed in Japan which had alot of Shermans and other older equipment. Also we used alot of reserve forces which were not armed with our most modern equipment naturally. Most of the newer bombers were also left at home as atomic deterrent.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Sommarkatze on July 05, 2011, 10:19:50 PM
Thanks for the sherman confirmation! And the thompson smg was widely used in Vietnam yes. Mostly by the ARVN who were equipped with old GI equipment. So I Think yes maybe the south vietnameses got a couples of shermans but dont citate me on it!
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 07, 2011, 03:42:08 AM
Howdy guys. I am a Tank fanboy.
The THompson M1A1 and a variant of the Sherman were both used by Amis in Vietnam. The Israeli Sherman is a 105 main tank gun utilizing Standardized NATO Ammunition. I believe THe Centurion holds pride of place in influencing Israeli Armor design.

WWII:
I AM A TANK FANBOY  8)

Storybooks: Panzertales
(http://www.achtungpanzer.com/wp-content/uploads/image/panzertales/tiger-i-early.jpg)
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Tankbuster on July 09, 2011, 07:58:07 AM
OOh! love the comic. Say did the Germans read these comics when they were bored in their tanks.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 09, 2011, 02:24:59 PM
OOh! love the comic. Say did the Germans read these comics when they were bored in their tanks.
Not unless they had a time machine and could read Japanese. BTW that's my buddy Otto in the Comic.

http://www.world-tank-museum.com/panzertales.html (http://www.world-tank-museum.com/panzertales.html)

Q1. How many of the tanks in this poll would be excluded From EF by virtue of the "Units that will never be in EF criteria poster"?
Q2. Isn't the 40 M Turan a tank destroyer?
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Tankbuster on July 09, 2011, 05:53:37 PM
OOh! love the comic. Say did the Germans read these comics when they were bored in their tanks.
Not unless they had a time machine and could read Japanese. BTW that's my buddy Otto in the Comic.

http://www.world-tank-museum.com/panzertales.html (http://www.world-tank-museum.com/panzertales.html)

Q1. How many of the tanks in this poll would be excluded From EF by virtue of the "Units that will never be in EF criteria poster"?
Q2. Isn't the 40 M Turan a tank destroyer?
Read the comic. It is written in English. It is about the Tiger. So it has a higher chance of being originally written in German rather than Japanese. However, the Germans must be busy destroying Shermans(did I rap) to get enough time to read them.

Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Sommarkatze on July 09, 2011, 11:55:46 PM
Get the Panzertales book! Wounderful bedtime reading! :D

(If I ever get a girlfriend.. AGAIN (nawh..) Iam going to read that book with her in hopes he gets into tanks<3)
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on July 10, 2011, 03:19:05 AM
OOh! love the comic. Say did the Germans read these comics when they were bored in their tanks.
Not unless they had a time machine and could read Japanese. BTW that's my buddy Otto in the Comic.

http://www.world-tank-museum.com/panzertales.html (http://www.world-tank-museum.com/panzertales.html)

Q1. How many of the tanks in this poll would be excluded From EF by virtue of the "Units that will never be in EF criteria poster"?
Q2. Isn't the 40 M Turan a tank destroyer?

The 40 M Turan is just a regular Medium tank that had a 40mm gun, not neatly strong enough to be on a TD
(http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Images/1-Vehicles(bis)/Hungary/Tanks/Turan1-40M/Left-bis.jpg)
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: RedGuard on July 10, 2011, 08:11:23 AM

(If I ever get a girlfriend.. AGAIN (nawh..) Iam going to read that book with her in hopes he gets into tanks<3)

goodluck getting him to enjoy it, my wife has grown to loathe the military/historical/political television shows

there just not into guy stuff
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on July 10, 2011, 12:40:24 PM
The 40 M Turan is just a regular Medium tank that had a 40mm gun, not neatly strong enough to be on a TD
(http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Images/1-Vehicles(bis)/Hungary/Tanks/Turan1-40M/Left-bis.jpg)

Looks like a mix of Matilda II and Panzer IV. Beautiful though. I hope this will be the 2nd tank to make it into Ostheers foreign battle group. :P
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Killar on July 10, 2011, 12:42:56 PM
Isnt it a little too heavy for the foreign tanks?
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on July 10, 2011, 12:48:04 PM
The American offmap combat group does also contain M10s/Hellcats, so why not.

Edit: It's weight is just 19,2 tons.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Cranialwizard on July 10, 2011, 02:40:15 PM
Isnt it a little too heavy for the foreign tanks?

It also lacks the penetration and the damage of "Heavier" tanks like Shermans and P4s. This would act like a heftier and more slow version of a Stuart or T70
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paciat on July 10, 2011, 06:13:00 PM
Isnt it a little too heavy for the foreign tanks?

It also lacks the penetration and the damage of "Heavier" tanks like Shermans and P4s. This would act like a heftier and more slow version of a Stuart or T70
We have PzIII for that. Dont think Ostheer will ever need a slow tank with a puny gun in late game.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Killar on July 10, 2011, 06:24:39 PM
Could be nice news for the next sneaky peaky. The reveal of the foreign call in group.

Is there already known how many different tanks will be included?
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on July 10, 2011, 09:11:02 PM
The Brits Churchill call in is heavier, slower, and has a 40mm gun (they call it a 2 pdr) just like the 40m. The latter is twice as fast, but has half as much armor
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: RedGuard on July 10, 2011, 09:44:36 PM
american TD's in OMCG dont really have effective armor, I dont count them as tanks

your not guaranteed to get one either
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Desert_Fox on July 17, 2011, 07:54:26 PM
я считаю, что т34 best of best самый массовый(интересный факт: немцы с 1939-1945 изготовили 23000 танков,а в СССР на одном заводе <УРАЛ ВАГОН ЗАВОД> изготовили с 1941-1945  только одних т34 28000 штук), орудие тоже отвечало задачам которые перед ним ставили.

English!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  >:(
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Paciat on July 17, 2011, 08:50:45 PM
The Brits Churchill call in is heavier, slower, and has a 40mm gun (they call it a 2 pdr) just like the 40m. The latter is twice as fast, but has half as much armor
No, Churchill has a (Mk IV version) 6pounder (OQF 57mm). Tetrarch has a 2pounder.
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on July 18, 2011, 03:20:04 AM
You're right  ;D the Wiki page for churchills was a little ambiguous as to what guns were on which tanks. it said on the main column that the main armament was a Qf 2 pounder and that was the only one listed when in reality there were at least 3 different ones used. I had to read pretty much the whole article to have it go something like:

Mk I-II = 2 pdr

Mk III-IV = 6 pdr

Mk VI-whatever = 75mm
Title: Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 23, 2011, 04:28:28 PM
@DocRoc: THe various websites do seem to have a paucity of data on the Churchill. The 75mm gun was only used for Home Defense Churchills. It was mounted in the hull, sort of like the M3 Lee/Grant. From what I've read the turret of the Churchill was too small to mount anything larger than the 6 Pounder.

A note on the M4. Most of the involved powers concentrated on upgrading to diesels to increase HP. THe Sherman used 80 Octane fuel.