Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Other discussions (Read-Only) => Eastern Front => Topic started by: tigerclawstyle on July 19, 2011, 05:26:32 AM

Title: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: tigerclawstyle on July 19, 2011, 05:26:32 AM
of all time. From the Modern era to ages of antiquity. Please post who you find to be the most interesting military leader, or give us your top five. Also, please give us an example (such as a battle or whole war) where the person made his mark on military history.

No matter how much I read about military history and the people involved, two names always draw me back to study more. 

1. Genghis Khan; largest continuous land based empire. Who knows what might have happened to Europe if he didn't die. His military organization and the tactical ability of his units probably shook the Middle East and Eastern Europe/Russia much like the way the Germans did with their blitzkrieg. 

2. Hannibal Barca; Almost brought Rome to it's knees before it really even stood up. The Battle of Cannae, and the first documented usage of the double envelopment; 70,000 Roman Legionaries/Auxiliaries died in a few hours. His plundering of Roman territory, was a major cause for the Roman's to begin the process of becoming an Empire.     
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: GodlikeDennis on July 19, 2011, 06:10:20 AM
1. Alexander the Great - Probably don't need to recount what he did.

2. Heinz Guderian - Developed armoured warfare tremendously and most of the Panzer tactics used by Germany came from him. It was also his suggestion/order that all Panzers be fitted with radios which allowed the high level of coordination Germans were famous for.

3. Henry V - Just because the Battle of Agincourt is so romanticised. Took some serious balls to stand and fight. The speech in Shakespeare's play is also pretty awesome.

4. Hannibal Barca - Military Genious. Probably the top tactician of all time.

5. Admiral Yamamoto - Knew his enemy and knew he couldn't defeat it but followed his orders to the best of his ability. Orchestrated the attack on Pearl Harbour which was a resounding military success but still couldn't stop the juggernaught of the US. Sense of duty and determination is pretty impressive.

Honourable mentions: Admiral Lord Nelson
                                Napoleon Bonaparte - Duh but not on the list cos French :P
                                Feldmarschall Paulus - For pissing off Hitler by not committing suicide
                                Marshall Zhukov - Grim determination and solid tactics to win at all cost. Also stood                           up to Stalin

These were some off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: tigerclawstyle on July 19, 2011, 08:02:32 AM
1. Alexander the Great - Probably don't need to recount what he did.

Good list. What did you think of Oliver Stone's film Alexander if you've seen it?
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: GodlikeDennis on July 19, 2011, 08:30:46 AM
It was alright, a bit long though. I felt it really dragged around the part where they were crossing the Hindu Kush. I thought the battle in India was really good though. Quite powerful when Alexander realises he's not invincible. Anthony Hopkins' narration was awesome too - really set the atmosphere.

I thought the movie really captured how Alexander felt he was a god and the battles were epic. However, his personal life wasn't relatable at all and his weird relationships weren't really explained well except for the one with his father.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Chancellor on July 19, 2011, 09:17:34 AM
Genghis Khan.  Biggest empire on earth.  EARNED it through merit (Unlike Guderian's Germany or Napoleon's France, Mongolia was not strong AT ALL before he came along) by using and developing superior tactics.  Fucked everyone's princess and didn't give a shit, and died doing it.

Conclusion: The man with the most badass balls-to-brain-ratio to ever live.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: cephalos on July 19, 2011, 10:04:22 AM
Alexander the Great ----> conquered almost everything except India and Roman Republic.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Seeme on July 19, 2011, 03:25:29 PM
Not that he is anywhere near my favorite, but Stalin was able to "Conquer" peoples minds and free to think. SO that makes he a effective leader.

I don't really have a favorite leader though.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 19, 2011, 06:34:03 PM
My favorite military leader is Thomas J.Jackson. Irish American, West Point, Class of 42(46?). His Valley Campaign of 1862 is still required reading there. During the Valley Campaign created a detour for over 100,000 men of the Army of the Potomac  on the Road to Richmond for four months. - Not even PADOT can do that!

Battles: Vera Cruz, Mexico City, Chapultepec-"the Halls of Montezuma", John Brown's Execution, Bull Run, Romney, Kernstown, McDowell, Franklin, Front Royal, Winchester, Cross Keys, Port Republic, Mechanicsville, Gaines Mill, Savage's Station, White Oak Swamp, Malvern Hill, Cedar Mountain, Second Manassas, Harper's Ferry, Antietam, Fredricksburg, Chancellorsville.

The most promoted American Soldier during the "War to Steal California from the Mexicans".
 
Advocated "Shooting the brave ones", Foot Cavalry and 12 Sarissa's -See Alexander the Great.

"Fool Tom", "Old Jack", "Robert E Lee's Hammer", "Lee's Right Arm", "Old Blue Light", "Stonewall".

A Presbyterian Deacon he believed in "keeping holy the Sabbath". He started many of his battles on a Sunday.

Final Words "Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees... Send Forward A.P.Hill"
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Crinkle on July 19, 2011, 06:48:28 PM
1 - Ghengis Kahn

2 - Boudicca, the earliest leader that i can think of who was a woman and rose up against the empirical power of rome.

3 - Admiral Lord Nelson i don't know why but i just like him

4 - William Wallace, although only really won a single battle he became a man of legend among the population of scotland at the time and that makes him a respectable figure in my eyes.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 19, 2011, 06:51:45 PM
THose interested in the career of Alexander should consult Arrian's Anabasis, Loeb Classical Library.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Sommarkatze on July 19, 2011, 08:03:12 PM
Leopold the theird . King of Belgium.

 He fought during ww1 and when the germans invaded in 1940 he led the army as a true king!.. Well yeah they lost XD. But come on! A king commanding an army ! Its like a medieval war! A true man of the people! Hell, he deserves at least to be my favorite <3


Edit
He is quite handsome to !
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: tigerclawstyle on July 19, 2011, 08:42:30 PM
It was alright, a bit long though. I felt it really dragged around the part where they were crossing the Hindu Kush. I thought the battle in India was really good though. Quite powerful when Alexander realises he's not invincible. Anthony Hopkins' narration was awesome too - really set the atmosphere.

I thought the movie really captured how Alexander felt he was a god and the battles were epic. However, his personal life wasn't relatable at all and his weird relationships weren't really explained well except for the one with his father.

Yeah good assessment. I think critic's and people who went into watch another Troy movie or whatever were just thrown off because of how they depicted his sexuality. It's just the way it was back then. The way they showed the first battle against the Persians was very cool. Alexanders vision of his empire really helps set him apart from other military leaders.

@Otto, never heard of Thomas J. Jackson until now. Will have to check him out, I went through an American Civil War phase when I was younger. He was in ALOT of battles.

Also, interesting note. I can't remember the exact number but 70 to 80 percent of people who live in East Asia and Central Asia have some genetic lineage to Genghis Khan. The man certainly like concubines and the old fashion rape method.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Paciat on July 19, 2011, 09:37:46 PM
You wont be a great leader if you wont lead a great number of men. Mao wins.

As for the most favorite leader its commander Shepard - Eass Effect. :P
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: tigerclawstyle on July 19, 2011, 09:40:04 PM
"I'm Commander Sheperd and this is my favorite store on the Citadel..."
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 20, 2011, 01:44:16 AM
You wont be a great leader if you wont lead a great number of men. Mao wins.
My Favorite Partizan leader List
Geronimo
T.E.Lawrence
John Mosby
Francisco Pizarro

Turner Ashby

Quote
As for the most favorite leader its commander Shepard - Eass Effect. :P
A meme is a terrible thing to waste.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on July 20, 2011, 03:22:48 AM
Lol I choose Ho Chi Minh

Theres something to be said for kicking Americas ass, and I should know Im an Ami myself 8). The French would be a big deal but seriously who doesnt beat them? At least in the last Century.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: tigerclawstyle on July 20, 2011, 06:04:43 AM
Good call, much respect to the Vietnamese. French, US, China and many smaller incursions against Thailand and Cambodia. The only other nation that I can think of that has been in that many conflicts against varied enemies and still win, is Israel.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: RedGuard on July 20, 2011, 06:47:33 AM
1. Gaius Julius Caesar

2. " "

3. lenin (can you count him as a military leader?)

4. Iosef Stalin

5. General George S. Patton
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: tigerclawstyle on July 20, 2011, 07:39:08 AM
Good list Redguard. Think your the first to mention Caeser. As for Lenin, I'm unaware if he held any military rank, but he was a leader that vastly changed Russia forever. Could you give me/us some background on if he actively planned military operations? I'm pretty sure he did, just need some clarification.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Tankbuster on July 20, 2011, 07:43:59 AM
No you cannot *chuckles like Dr. Hibbert*
my favorite leaders
1 Alexander the Great.
2 Genghis Khan. (He built an empire which didn't crumble after his death due to his reforms)
3 Napoleon. (Because of his height)
4 Indira Gandhi (Because I am Indian)
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: RedGuard on July 20, 2011, 07:45:22 AM
Good list Redguard. Think your the first to mention Caeser. As for Lenin, I'm unaware if he held any military rank, but he was a leader that vastly changed Russia forever. Could you give me/us some background on if he actively planned military operations? I'm pretty sure he did, just need some clarification.

well he organized the october revolution which is disputed  but it was a military operation
he had his hands in almost every part of the new government after the overthrow including the military

lenin is usually overshaodwed by other leaders like stalin and trotsky
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: cephalos on July 20, 2011, 10:54:22 AM
Just curious: can we count Hitler?
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: RedGuard on July 20, 2011, 11:10:00 AM
sure he was a military leader ???
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: GodlikeDennis on July 20, 2011, 11:58:55 AM
Personally I wouldn't consider Lenin, Stalin or Hitler military leaders. If you include them you can include any US President since they're technically Commander-in-Chief or even the Queen.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: cephalos on July 20, 2011, 12:27:22 PM
Personally I wouldn't consider Lenin, Stalin or Hitler military leaders. If you include them you can include any US President since they're technically Commander-in-Chief or even the Queen.
I think exactly the same.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: tigerclawstyle on July 20, 2011, 06:41:07 PM
Lenin and Stalin for debate I suppose. Hitler on the other hand was just a Corporal (heh) and should be ranked on the top of Worst Military Leaders of all time.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Paciat on July 20, 2011, 06:57:56 PM
Lenin and Stalin for debate I suppose. Hitler on the other hand was just a Corporal (heh) and should be ranked on the top of Worst Military Leaders of all time.
Leaders dont have to be good tacticions. Stalin and Churchill are also responsible for military catastrophes, not only in WWII but also 20 years earlier (Russo–Polish war 1919-1921 and Gallipoli Campaign 1915).
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Dann88 on July 20, 2011, 07:29:52 PM
My first favourite is Hannibal, he had a nice name and win battles through tatic, but later research see how he failed in politic and build order make me forget about him.
So here is the list:
Julius Gaius Caesar (weird, I cant command him in Rome total war :P)
Alexander (the talk between him and his father in "Alexander" is awsome)
Ho Chi Minh (not because I'm a Vietnamese, yes I'm a Vietnamese, he made things from NOTHING dude!)
and the last one is Cao Cao in Chinese Three Kingdoms Era :P
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 20, 2011, 08:18:42 PM
The Politico-Military Leader list:
1. Saladin - THe Madrasa, Cairo, unification of the Middle East, wore a helmet: Horns of Hattin, Jerusalem
2. Buonaparte - Metric system, Napoleonic Law Code, Rosetta Stone, crowned himself: Austerlitz, Jena-Auerstadt, Marengo -He was a corporal too.
3. George Washington: Laissez Faire government, sensible foreign policy, bloated expense accounts, refused to be crowned: Fort Necessity, Siege of Boston, Trenton, Yorktown
4. Octavian: Pax Romana, tax reform, created standing army, bought the crown: Actium, Phillipi
5. Ieyasu Tokugawa: Brought stability to Nippon for 242 years, Gamer, didn't need a crown: Segihara, Osaka

Cao Cao! Sun Ce is my favorite.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Paciat on July 20, 2011, 08:20:19 PM
Ho Chi Minh (not because I'm a Vietnamese, yes I'm a Vietnamese, he made things from NOTHING dude!)
You choose Ho Chi Minh becouse you actually learned about him in school becouse you are Vietnamese. If I would say Piłsudski (not because I'm a Polish, yes I'm a Polish, he stopped the Red Army Revolution (for 20 years at least) from spreading west to other nations of Europe) would you belive me? Well you actually wouldnt care but I would probably get a reply from a guy from Russia becouse the Russo–Polish war is looked at a different perspctive there.

If you were Japanese from US would he be your favorite leader? :-\
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Blackbishop on July 20, 2011, 08:39:20 PM
As many of you have mentioned the guys I know I will mention a different ones :D!

1- Erwin Rommel
2- Emiiano Zapata
3- Francisco Villa
4- José Ma. Morelos

As mexican I have to mention Emiliano Zapata. Yey!! :D

The only one that really cared for his people when fighting against the goverment.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 20, 2011, 09:11:03 PM
@ BlackBishop: don't forget  Ignacio Zaragoza Seguín (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignacio_Zaragoza)

The Polish list:
Józef Poniatowski -Top of List
Jan Sobieski - Stopped the Turks at Vienna
Tadeusz Kościuszko
Kazimierz Pułaski
Henri the Pious, Grand Duke of Poland. Drove away the Mongols at Liegnitz, almost united Poland
 on a technicality: Erich von Manstein (born Fritz-Erich von Lewinski – Brochwicz)

THis is more fun than Random Word Game.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Dann88 on July 20, 2011, 09:23:55 PM
Trust me, in VietNam you will learn not much about him, history is always a joke of VietNam's education , I have to research myself about him like every other leaders. That's why I wrote "not because I'm a Vietnamese", it basically has nothing to do with my nationality from the beginning. Just explaining :P
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Chancellor on July 20, 2011, 09:30:02 PM
I'm surprised no one mentioned Sun Tzu.  The guy who wrote The Art of War, the book that half of the people mentioned here learned from?
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: tigerclawstyle on July 20, 2011, 09:38:18 PM
He's overrated. Hehe Just kidding. Mandatory reading for any soldier or future officer. Chinese officers are said to have it completely memorized, and every war since its inception has followed its guidelines to some degree or another. Great addition Yauz.

One more for the list that hasn't been mentioned.

Scipio Africanus. Defeated Hannibal, and never lost a battle.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 20, 2011, 09:46:14 PM
@Tigerclawstyle: There are only 138 different "words" in The Art of War, Shouldn't be that hard to memorize if you know Kanji.

Unmentioned list:
China Gordon : Khartoum 1885(?)
Phil Sheridan
Von Luck

@Yauz: I think Sun Tzu has to be added to the list of armchair generals. The prevailing scholarly opinion is that Sun Tzu was never a military commander. THe debate still rages(?). I think most of us will agree the "concubine" story is just a legend.

Trust me, in VietNam you will learn not much about him, history is always a joke of VietNam's education
History is a joke in the USA educational system too. I recently read that in the 12 year secondary education system curricula less than seven minutes time is spent on Vietnam, period.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: GodlikeDennis on July 21, 2011, 05:34:16 AM
History in Australian schools is a joke too. We spent years on a few leaky prison boats landing in Sydney and didn't ever have Vietnam mentioned.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: RedGuard on July 21, 2011, 10:41:20 AM
Personally I wouldn't consider Lenin, Stalin or Hitler military leaders. If you include them you can include any US President since they're technically Commander-in-Chief or even the Queen.
I think exactly the same.

do they command the armed forces? yes they do, and they out-rank all officers and have the final say. sounds like a military leader to me

but thats just common sense
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Tico_1990 on July 21, 2011, 11:31:28 AM
Not my favourite but surely high on the list:
The combination of William the silent (William of Orange), Maurice of Nassau, and Frederick Henry. These are the leaders of the Dutch armies during the eighty years war. The country became independent under their rule.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 21, 2011, 03:16:41 PM
Where I live they have a saying: "If you ain't Dutch, you ain't much."  :P
THe political leaders should be evaluated differently from the strictly military leaders. Hiram Grant was a masterful military leader. THe years he spent in the White House were a gilded  age of corruption, and genocide. He can't be lauded on that account. Lenin is another oddball case. IIRC he didn't have any military experience but he knocked Russia out of WWI pretty much singlehandedly. He is high on the list of MAster Strategists in history and one of the most important leaders of the Twentieth Century. In the long run did he do the Soviet Peoples any good?
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on July 22, 2011, 05:30:30 AM
Lol you might want to call him Ulysses or ppl wont know who you're talkin about. I think Robert E Lee (before Jackson was killed) or even Thomas Jackson were better commanders than Grant. You are right tho History here in america is kinda lacking, If I hadn't taken that elective on Vietnam I still wouldnt know anything about it. I just learned about the War of 1812 a coule weeks ago. And brits thought they were so tuff 8). Lol jk
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Dann88 on July 30, 2011, 10:22:47 PM
So is Pyrrhus of Epirus a good tatician and Zhuge Liang a good strategist?
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 31, 2011, 02:52:23 AM
Pyrrhus of Epirus' reputation as a general today rests primarily on three battles fought against the Roman Republic: Heraclea, Asculum and Beneventum. He is credited as having won the first two engagements and lost the third. He twice conquered Macedon, overran the Carthaginians in Sicily and defeated the Spartans in open battle. He was unsuccessful in besieging Sparta and died fighting in the Streets of Argos. He was skilled in use of the phalanx, cavalry and innovated the use of War Elephants in Europe. In battle he was the new Achilles. During one battle he was severely wounded. He later accepted the challenge of an enemy hero and split him into two pieces, head to crotch with one blow. Hannibal of all great commanders esteemed Pyrrhus for skill and conduct the first, Scipio the second, and himself the third. Antigonus, of Macedon, being asked who was the greatest soldier, said, "Pyrrhus, if he lives to be old." Antigonus also compared him to a player with dice, who had excellent throws, but knew not how to use them. I tend to agree with Antigonus.

Zhuge Liang, "the Sleeping Dragon", was by any measure a master strategist. An extremely able military administrator he directed military matters for Liu Bei during the Later Han Dynasty and the Three kingdoms era. He provided military advice to both the Shu and Wu Kingdoms in their struggles against Cao Cao of Wei. He worked hard to unify the Shu State. He led campaigns against Wei, and the Southron Barbarians. The Battle of Red Cliffs is the most famous battle he was involved in. History, Legend and Myth all combine to confuse issues when it comes to the Life of Zhuge Liang. Zhuge Liang was believed to be the inventor of steam buns, the landmine, the wheelbarrow, a semiautomatic crossbow, (or improvements thereto), and a hot air balloon used for military signalling, known as the Kongming lantern. Books popularly attributed to Zhuge Liang can be found today: Mastering the Art of War. , and The Thirty-Six Stratagems. "The Empty Fort Strategy" is probably of Zhuge Liang's devising. Tokugawa Ieyasu used the tactic during his retreat in the Battle of Mikatagahara. Zhuge Liang was considered by some to be a Taoist Sorcerer, (a term of contempt and fear when used by Confucians). He is credited with constructing the mysterious Stone Sentinel Maze, an array of stone piles that is said to produce supernatural phenomenon, located near Baidicheng. This is an application of Ba Gua; elsewhere cited in Chinese military lore as a puissant tactic.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Pac-Fish on July 31, 2011, 03:09:25 AM
Some prefered leaders:
-George S. Patton
-Erwin Rommel
-Genghis Knan
-Gerory Zhukov
-Alexander the Great
-Shi Huang Di (Despite the fact most ppl know him as a ruler, he had to conquer the whole of China first. And he was the first to implement "shocktroopers")
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on July 31, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
These aren't military leaders due to the fact they didnt lead an official state military but they deserve honorable mention for their leadership at the Battle of the Little Bighorn.

*Sitting Bull

*Crazy Horse

*Chief Gall

Ppl outside the US may not know what Im talking about. As Ive said before anyone who can boast a victory against the US gets major points in my book.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Dann88 on July 31, 2011, 01:36:14 PM
What I read from Otto, some of it is not in Wiki, that's cool ;D but poor for him, another ill-fated general like Hannibal. But did Zhuge Liang after attack Wei 7 times, he sucked dry the treasury and later his successor Jiang Wei failed to defended lead to later Han dynasty's downfall?
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 31, 2011, 05:35:47 PM
What I read from Otto, some of it is not in Wiki, that's cool but poor for him, another ill-fated general like Hannibal. But did Zhuge Liang after attack Wei 7 times, he sucked dry the treasury and later his successor Jiang Wei failed to defended lead to later Han dynasty's downfall?
Quote
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your Wikipedia.
I use many references for my posts. Plutarch's Lives was used for Pyrrhus. Plutarch was a wonderful historian but makes for tedious reading. In English the Dryden translation is the "best of rotten apples".The Longzhong Plan was a strategic plan developed by Zhuge Liang to secure of a viable regional base in southern China, followed by a two-pronged attack to conquer the Wei. It has been heavily criticized by Chinese Scholars for centuries. Not all Strategies work.The "The Empty Fort Strategy" cited was very risky. When all is said and done Zhuge Liang attacked Wei many more then seven times. The treasury issue is subject for a debate on administrative skills. Liu Bei and later his son should be considered responsible for the down fall of Shu-Han. Not all of the Later Han's leaders were as able as Zhuge Liang or Chang Fei.[/]
[]These aren't military leaders due to the fact they didnt lead an official state military but they deserve honorable mention for their leadership at the Battle of the Little Bighorn.*Sitting Bull*Crazy Horse*Chief GallPpl outside the US may not know what Im talking about. As Ive said before anyone who can boast a victory against the US gets major points in my book.+1[/]
[]During the First American Revolution There was no official state. Various Indian groups were considered Nations, and the USA negotiated treaties with many. Give Crazy Horse and Gall their due. Sitting Bull was not a warrior. He was a Peace Chief.

[/]
... -Shi Huang Di (Despite the fact most ppl know him as a ruler, he had to conquer the whole of China first. And he was the first to implement "shocktroopers")
Can you elaborate on the Shocktroopers citation?
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: DrRockzo1986 on July 31, 2011, 05:43:18 PM
Lol sorry I couldnt remeber who led the battle for the Native Americans
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Dann88 on July 31, 2011, 08:27:01 PM
@ Otto213: Can you show me more source about generals, taticcians and strategists, please :P This is my most drawback, I only have wikipedia as the main source.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: RedGuard on July 31, 2011, 09:36:53 PM
+1 Native Americans!!!! woo woo woo woo woo woo woo
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 31, 2011, 10:01:27 PM
Hello Tovarich! :)

@Stavka88: try these links. I will modify this post occasionally.
http://ancienthistory.about.com (http://ancienthistory.about.com/)
http://militaryhistory.about.com/ (http://militaryhistory.about.com)
http://www.ww2talk.com (http://www.ww2talk.com/)
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/general.htm (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/general.htm)
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Pac-Fish on July 31, 2011, 10:44:36 PM
@Otto213: I was watching the history channel  :P. And they said he used fast strike troops to rush and stun they enemy before heavy infantry(with more armor and weapons) came in to help.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on July 31, 2011, 11:54:31 PM
Hans Ulrich Rudel - Panzer Ace

Hans-Ulrich Rudel was a Stuka pilot during World War II and a "dyed in the wool" Nazi until his death in 1982. He commanded the oldest and the best known Stuka Group - Schlachtgeschwader 2 Immelmann. He was the most highly decorated German serviceman of the war. Joseph Stalin himself put a price of 100,000 rubles on his head.

In 1936, he joined the Luftwaffe. Rudel had difficulty learning the new techniques and was considered unsuitable for combat flying. During the Polish Campaign he flew (as an observer) on long-range reconnaissance missions. Rudel earned the Iron Cross 2nd Class on 11 October 1939. After a number of requests he was reassigned to dive bombers. He spent the Battle of Britain and the invasion of Crete  in non-combat roles. He was still regarded as a poor pilot! On June 23, 1941 he flew his first combat dive-bombing mission. On July 18, 1941, Rudel was awarded Iron Cross 1st Class. September 23, 1941, Rudel sank the Soviet Battleship "Marat". (It was later raised and served as a floating battery).

December 24, 1941, Rudel flew his 500th mission and was awarded the German Cross in Gold.  Rudel was sent to Graz to lecture and train new Stuka crews. On January 15 1942, he was awarded with Knights Cross and returned to the Eastern Front in June of 1942.
In September of 1942, while operating in the Stalingrad area Rudel received the command of a squadron. It was often sent to attack Soviet tank units, even when inadequacy of bombs against tanks was realized. He helped test the Ju-87 G-1, Panzerknacker. On the first day of the Operation Citadel, during his first mission, Rudel knocked out four Soviet tanks and by the evening, his score had grown to twelve. Rudel developed new tactics for Tank Destroyer Squadrons. He found that the best way to knock out tanks was to hit them in the back or the side. Attacking the back of the tank meant that the plane had to come from the rear flying towards friendly territory - a great advantage if the plane got damaged during the attack.

On January 1, 1945, Rudel was awarded the Knights Cross with Golden Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds, being the only recipient of this award specially created for him. In February of 1945, Rudel was seriously wounded and his right thigh was shattered by anti-aircraft fire, He managed to land and was taken to the field hospital, where his leg was amputated. Rudel had an artificial limb fitted and then returned to his squadron. He continued flying combat missions until the end of the war. Rudel flew 2,530 combat missions claiming a total of 2,000 targets destroyed; including 1000 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery pieces, a destroyer, two cruisers, one battleship, 70 landing craft, 4 armored trains, several bridges and 11 aircraft, (which he personally shot down). Rudel thought that the Lend-Lease American tanks were easier to kill than the Soviet T-34s, but he hated their machine guns, because he was shotdown by one.

His Memoirs: Stuka Pilot are worth reading.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: stealthattack1 on October 28, 2011, 05:47:13 PM
i know this topic was probably dead a long time ago, but i still want to post,
chesty puller. the dude was a frickin' boss! he was the most decorated marine in US history, and here are some of his quotes- "They are in front of us, behind us, and we are flanked on both sides by an enemy that outnumbers us 29:1. They can't get away from us now!"
-"We're surrounded. That simplifies our problem of getting to these people and killing them." just look up some of his war stories and you wil agree with me. http://www.badassoftheweek.com/puller.html (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/puller.html)
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on March 29, 2012, 12:44:57 PM
Hi TigerClaw,

I'm back. Hope you're well. I was discharged from PT on friday from a bungled surgery last june to restore functionality to my left hand. I went in with one disfunctional finger and now have 3 disfunctional fingers on that hand. Talk about depressing; I was for 6 months. I'm thinking of changing my Username to Otto_Halfhand!

Last Friday March 23, 2012 marked the 150th Anniversary the start of the Valley Campaign. So I thought I might amplify on my original post. Valley Campaign battles have been embolded

My favorite military leader is Thomas J.Jackson. Irish American, West Point, Class of 42(46?). His Valley Campaign of 1862 is still required reading there. During the Valley Campaign created a detour for over 100,000 men of the Army of the Potomac  on the Road to Richmond for four months. - Not even PADOT can do that!

Battles: Vera Cruz, Mexico City, Chapultepec-"the Halls of Montezuma", John Brown's Execution, Bull Run, Romney, Kernstown, McDowell, Franklin, Front Royal, Winchester, Cross Keys, Port Republic, Mechanicsville, Gaines Mill, Savage's Station, White Oak Swamp, Malvern Hill, Cedar Mountain, Second Manassas, Harper's Ferry, Antietam, Fredricksburg, Chancellorsville.

The most promoted American Soldier during the "War to Steal California from the Mexicans".
 
Advocated "Shooting the brave ones", Foot Cavalry and arming his men with 12 Ft long pikes, (Sarissa's -See Alexander the Great).

"Fool Tom", "Old Jack", "Robert E Lee's Hammer", "Lee's Right Arm", "Old Blue Light", "Stonewall".

A Presbyterian Deacon he believed in "keeping holy the Sabbath". He started many of his battles on a Sunday.

Final Words "Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees... Send Forward A.P.Hill"

The Battle of Kernstown 3.23.1862 was fought on a Sunday. The "Stonewall Division" ~3,600 strong Launched a poorly coordinated attack on the right flank of Shield's division ~ 12,000 strong, (probably 8000 were engaged). In order to do so a double time march of about a mile in length was required this approach was mostly uphill. The object of this maneuver was to turn the well placed 6 gun Federal artillery battery - Battery B, 4th US regulars on Pritchards Hill. Jackson's  Rockbridge Battery of 8 cast iron 6 lbrs from the Tredegar Iron Works in Richmond. Jackson's battery set up in a marshy meadow, only to find they were out ranged. They limbered up found the range and set up again. They were in the open under fire the entire time. The carnage was incredible. Jackson's attack was continued. It might have suceeded, (doubtfull), when a well timed attack from Tyler's Brigade stopped Jackson cold. Jackson fought on until dark and retreated, (read as routed). It was the only battle Jackson ever lost. I'm proud to say that two of the engaged Federal regiments that defeated Jackson were the 110 PA and 112 PA; now part of 28th Division PA-NG.mustering from my home region.

Jackson got the name Stonewall at the Battle of Bull Run. CSA General Bee while under heavy fire  saw Jackson's Brigade on his flank, standing there picking their noses. In exasperation Bee called out to his men "There stands Jackson like a stoe wall". Bee recieved a mortal wound minutes later.  So legends are born.

Jackson's final battle Chancellorsville 5.2.1863 also involved a flank march. This time he succeeded and routed the USA XI corps, effectively winning  the battle and saving R.E.Lee's greatly outnumbered Army of Northern Virginia to fight on for 23 more bitter months. Jackson was mortally wounded by friendly fire that evening while conducting a twilight recconnaisence.
 
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Fisher321 on April 05, 2012, 09:30:19 PM
Most definitely Erwin Rommel. (from Wikipedia)

Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel  (15 November 1891 – 14 October 1944), popularly known as the Desert Fox (Wüstenfuchs), was a German Field Marshal of World War II. He won the respect of both his own troops and the enemies he fought.

He was a highly decorated officer in World War I, and was awarded the Pour le Mérite for his exploits on the Italian front. In World War II, he further distinguished himself as the commander of the 7th Panzer Division during the 1940 invasion of France. However, it was his leadership of German and Italian forces in the North African campaign that established the legend of the Desert Fox. He is considered to have been one of the most skilled commanders of desert warfare in the conflict. He later commanded the German forces opposing the Allied cross-channel invasion in Normandy.

As one of the few generals who consistently fought the Western Allies (he was never assigned to the Eastern Front), Rommel is regarded as having been a humane and professional officer. His Afrikakorps was never accused of war crimes. Soldiers captured during his Africa campaign were reported to have been treated humanely. Furthermore, he ignored orders to kill captured commandos, Jewish soldiers and civilians in all theaters of his command.

Late in the war, Rommel was linked to the conspiracy to kill Adolf Hitler. Because Rommel was widely renowned, Hitler chose to eliminate him quietly; in trade for assurances his family would be spared, Rommel agreed to commit suicide.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: stealthattack1 on April 05, 2012, 10:02:50 PM
Welcome to the forums! were very glad to have you here, and i hope you enjoy the mod!

as for  Erwin Rommel, i would agree. he's actually one German leader i can root for morally because of the attempted assassination of Hitler.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Pac-Fish on April 05, 2012, 10:14:09 PM
Welcome to the forums! were very glad to have you here, and i hope you enjoy the mod!
he's actually one German leader i can root for morally because of the attempted assassination of Hitler.

Well, that, and the fact he didn't abuse POWs and didn't excute people just because. IIRC he refused to kill any jews (although not sure)
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Mertypro on April 05, 2012, 10:20:28 PM
Robert the bruce :D
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Fisher321 on April 06, 2012, 12:10:09 AM
Welcome to the forums! were very glad to have you here, and i hope you enjoy the mod!

as for  Erwin Rommel, i would agree. he's actually one German leader i can root for morally because of the attempted assassination of Hitler.

Thanks!

And he was anti-nazi as well, he only fought because he loved Germany..
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: stealthattack1 on April 06, 2012, 12:51:14 AM
altogether a good guy on the wrong side
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Cranialwizard on April 06, 2012, 02:16:47 AM
Rommel is a guy I have the utmost respect for. He was military genius and made off with the constant promise of supplies from high command yet to not recieved them because of eastern front redirections.

Rommel was the first general to use the Flak88 as an anti-tank weapon. Low on PaK ammunition and desperately waiting on supplies, Rommel ordered that Flak88s be cranked down and target enemy armor, which worked extremely well.

This was from a book I read a good while ago.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on April 06, 2012, 05:31:44 AM
Many of you have remarked on the Desert Fox's independent spirit. Much of the Success of the DAK can be attributed to this but you may not know why. The Brits and Amis, with the able assistance of the Poles were masters of intellegencing. Both the Heer and Naval codes were cracked by the Allies and virtually every sailing and move order generated in Berlin was known to them. In Africa the Brits relied on this information to a large degree. Rommel frequently ignored orders or placed himself outside of the line of communications in order to achieve his military goals. May 1940, June 1940, April 1941, June 1942, October 1942 and on other occasions this was so. In North Africa he achieved his greatest successes when the British planned on him following orders from Berlin and he didn't. The build-up that led to the Gazala battles and the fall of Tobruk was in great part due to Arrangements Rommel made with Kesslering and Commando Supremo during a stopover in Rome en route from Berlin. Without the intel communications intercepts the Royal Navy was unable to intercept men and material. It happened again after Torch when the 10th Panzer Division with its Tiger battalion landed in Africa.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Pac-Fish on April 06, 2012, 04:07:56 PM
Which is why they nicknamed him Ghost Battalion IIRC :P
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on April 06, 2012, 05:33:52 PM
I'm not totally certain but the 7th Panzer division was the "GHost Division" THe Ghost battalion may have been its rcce battalion. For some reason I associate the ghost battalion with Guderian. Maybe Lord Rommel can weigh-in on this.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Pac-Fish on April 06, 2012, 05:45:58 PM
No I think you are right. I didn't actually remember what came after "ghost" :P
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on April 06, 2012, 06:09:39 PM
Memory is a great Betrayer. What say we expand this discussion to include Guderian. I'll leave the nitty gritty to others, but for Starts:
Heinz Guderian is considered by many to be the founder of the Panzer Truppen. Technically he wasn't because he didn't have sufficient rank at the time. A student of the theories of Basil-Liddell Hart, he certainly was a driving force in the development of combined arms, blitzkrieg and Schwerpunkt philosophy. One of the more successful "Panzer Leader"s he lost Hitler's confidence by not adhering strictly to orders, much like Rommel. He ended up as Panzertruppen inspector general, (or some such title), as a result. In this role he advocated anti-tank measures rather than tanks to counter the T34 threat and increase production. He ridiculed the notion of super heavy tanks like the Maus. He was a prolific writer. My favorites are the operations manuals for Panther and Tiger crews, which contained suggestive pictures to arouse the interest of the troopers. Apparently it worked. You can find some examples of these manuals on the Web.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on August 26, 2012, 04:35:47 PM
How about enlightening us on the career of von Brauchitsch?
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: WLENIN on October 10, 2012, 07:35:46 PM
In my opinion, Marshall Shukov was the best military leader of WWII.Because of him, the Soviet Union managed to win World War 2.I know that Rommel and Guderian are also very good leaders but remember who really won WWII and that was the USSR!
Sorry for bad English.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: delmar77 on October 11, 2012, 05:08:59 AM

Great Khan  ( Genghis Khan)
Julius Caesar
Cyrus the Great ( Cyrs II)
Timur
Francisco Pizarro González
AND
Napoleon Bonaparte
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on October 14, 2012, 07:47:04 AM
Your choice of Pizzzaro is a most interesting one.  Anyone who could bring down an empire the size of the Inca's and running the length of South America with 170 men and 25 horses certainly is worthy of consideration. Do you think that if a civil war was not on going and the assasination/murders of the two rival leaders yielding a leadership vacuum was the real reason the conquest suceeded? (granted that Pizzaro did capture and kill Atahualpa.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: IEatBolsheviks on October 16, 2012, 10:32:00 PM
My favorite military leaders:
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Tehcumseh on October 17, 2012, 02:24:01 AM
My Favorite Leaders
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on October 18, 2012, 03:36:24 AM
One of my personal favorites is Colonel John Singleton Mosby. He Fought At First Manassas at the outset of the US Civil war as a private soldier in the Washington Guards Company of the 1st VA Cavalry. He soon became disenchanted with this sort of regular army work and Came to the Attention of J.E.B. Stuart. It is thought by some that Stuart's Famous Ride around McClellan's Army was the Brainchild of John Mosby. In early 1863 Mosby was given command of the 43 VA Cavalry Battalion of Irregular Partizan Rangers. He launched a campaign of guerilla warfare in a six county area of Northern Virginia that soon became known as "Mosby's Confederacy. Working with small groups of 5 to 23 men he conducted raids in occupied and soon to be heavily garrisoned areas. His men would not generally engage in open battle but would ride in, create havoc and then "Skedaddle". The local population did much to aid and abet Mosby and his men in bedeviling the "Damn Yankees" Among his operations were included Train Wrecking, Bridge blowing operations, Hijacking of wagon trains and even kidnapping. One night he and 8(?) men rode into Fairfax County Courthouse and captured Union General Stoughton in his bed. Some of Mosby's raids penetrated into the Washington DC itself. Generals Grant and Sheridan had so much trouble with Mosby that they put a price on his head, Hanged his men as terrorists and put Southern Civilians on trains as hostages to keep Mosy's Raiders on good behaviour. It didn't work. Mosby surrendered his command shortly after Appomatox. His operations had diverted thousands of Union Soldiers and caused over a Million dollars of damages in a extended 27 month campaign. He had shown that effective partizan activities could be undertaken to great sucess with very limited means. After the War was over Mosby held several government positions in the Grant Administration.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: delmar77 on October 18, 2012, 04:11:49 AM
About Pizarro I think it could be easily crushed and still persevered in the face of great challenge and the overwhelming force of numbers. And everyone here on the forum know that an overwhelming amount of quality wins. About infighting, history is full of civil war in states that do not allow themselves to conquer.
The military leader is not only good in tactics, strategy and it needs Pizarro in my opinion had the opportunity and boldness.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on October 18, 2012, 04:19:58 AM
What you say is true. Pizzarro's greatness was not so much in terms of quality. Granted Toledo steel, Firearms and Warhorses were high quality stuff but to conquer and stabilise an area as large as the Inca Empire with so few men was an amazing feat.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: TheVolskinator on October 30, 2012, 09:28:51 PM
Erwin Rommel is a personall favorite, though mostly from the fanboism of the man. His tactics repeatedly confounded the British, but only because nobody caught on to them. He really did fall into a repetetive pattern of sweeping right flanks that only Monty figured out--which is why only he was able to drive Rommel back. He also earns my respect for his distance from the Nazi Party, equal treatment of himself, his officers, and his soldiers, as well as PoWs (equal ration shares for everyone, for example), and his outstanding allocation of resources and ability to turn a defensive position into a blistering counterattack.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: Otto Halfhand on November 04, 2012, 02:23:26 AM
Hey Volks,
Rommel is one of my favorites too. I sometimes wonder though if much of Rommel's success in Afrika wasn't due to his habit of going out of communications with his superiors in Berlin. Most of the coups scored by the 30thcorps/8th Army were due to possesion of German codes by the Brits. This is not to belittle either the hard fighters on either side of the aisle or the Desert Fox himself.
Title: Re: Favorite Military Leader...
Post by: CreeperFIN on January 01, 2013, 10:41:11 PM
Mine favorite is G.G Mannerheim. His command saved the finland from soviet occupation  3 times.                   http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3060/3009425719_22ed96d23f_z.jpg?zz=1 some people say that never attack russian but i say never attack finland:D (i know that many of you dont agree but im finnish and i had to say that)