Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Suggestions => Topic started by: William on June 23, 2007, 01:23:03 AM
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We are currently trying to figure out some new units for the German side. We have several ideas including the following:
Hetzer
Wespe
Marder III
We are also trying to find things to do with infantry such as new units or weapons, and possibly new doctrine abilities. We are trying to keep the game feel more like vCoH kind of like an expansion pack (it would go very nicely with Opposing Fronts :))
Discuss..
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You can't forget the good ole' Tiger II, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_II. Make sure to include something insanely powerful like...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_cm_Gustav.
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What about the big bertha rail gun? it was like a big cannon on a open topped cart pulled by a locomotive that fired 1 tonne shells
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So much for a balanced mod then nohands ;D
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actualylt he gustav the otehr guy suggested fires 7 ton shells up to 32 kms so i guess i was actually balancing it... anyways teh gustav should cost like 3000 panzers or something
and take ages to move and build
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Or we could always use it as a doctrine artillery.
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and that means?....
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and that means?....
you dont know what that is :P ? then you never play's whit the axis :P
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I have NEVER played CoH i jsut made the site for Will.. i hear tis great just i cant be bothered buying it and downloading it takes forever
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I have NEVER played CoH i jsut made the site for Will.. i hear tis great just i cant be bothered buying it and downloading it takes forever
buy it buy it it is sutch a good game ;D
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I can see the Gustav working like the V1. A giant artillery shell hurtling out of the sky and creating a big hole in an opponents base. It shouldn't be barrage though as the gun couldn't be loaded that quick. Big Bertha probably wouldn't work as well as it fires shells half the size, Karl mortars might work as well though. The King Tiger sounds like a good idea as well as there is already a released model for mods on the Relic forums.
We won't need the Hetzer and the Marder III ofr there both TD on the Panzer 38 tonne. I would go with the Hetzer for there were more built and it succeeded the Marder III. However it wasn't put into production until 1944 so when is the mod set? If it's Barbarossa to Berlin we'll need both. As a final note its name isn't official like Tiger and Panther the official name is Jadgpanzer 38(t) it was only called Hetzer by German troops which was only referenced by one message from Guderian to Hitler, the name then became popualar with historians and is thus in many books. Just thought you might enjoy the information.
The Wespe should work well as a SPA piece.
Now for my contribution towards infantry. How about putting in the Fallschirmjäger or some of the Baltic and Ukranian SS (I think there was a Ukranian SS anyway) although I don't know how these would be all that different to the existing troops.
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Now for my contribution towards infantry. How about putting in the Fallschirmjäger or some of the Baltic and Ukranian SS (I think there was a Ukranian SS anyway) although I don't know how these would be all that different to the existing troops.
Its pretty easy to copy a unit, rename it and reskin it, so we can always take the grenadiers for example and reskin them as another unit while leaving the normal grenadiers in the same place.
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Yeah but I mean what would it add having an identical unit in all but name?
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Maybe with permission you guys could use material from OF, say like the German Vehicles :D
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I wish we could but the thing is, if they let us use there vehicles, who would buy the xpack :P It would be a good idea for us to have it compatible though
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I might be wrong but i herd somewhere that OF was going to be more a standalone game than an expack.
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O right.. nvm
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Well im sure we could put some OF stuff in, but i have no idea about the legal side of things :angel1:
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Yeah but we'd have to wait until autumn.
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If we put OF stuff in our mod what would make people want tp buy OF? We could make it compatible but thats it, cant take any of there stuff without consent, WRITTEN consent, which I doubt.
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If you look at the BF2 mod Project Reality, EA allowed them to use items from the Expack and Booster Packs. So if Relic owuld allow maybe so.
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Are you sure that PR asked EA. The things that they used where just the grappling hook and that small create picker upper thing? Sandbox used the zip-line and grappling hook and I'm not sure if he got permission either. The best thing we can do is ask.
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How 'bout a Marder II based on the Pz II chassis?
Or the "other" Marder III, Panzerjäger 38(t) für 7.62cm PaK36(r) Sd Kfz 139
And for something totally unique & different, how about a single Captured T-34 in German Panzergrau, could be used to support SS Auxiliaries or "Osttruppen" units, perhaps even bought as a "package" in one of the Doctrines like the Urban Assault package used to be before Relic screwed it & removed the troops from the StuH & Tiger Ace, or it could be used as a bonus i.e. left on the map somewhere for the player to find & recover it with the Bergetiger.
The Bergetiger currently remains a "pet hate" of mine since only 3 known field conversions of this unit existed, I would much prefer to see the Pz III, Pz IV Bergepanzers or the Bergepanther utilized for this role.
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how you call german units?maybe SS-leibstandarte?
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Why does everybody want to play disgusting SS? They killed too many civilists, begun warcrimes en massê
and were ideologically blinded. I would hate to play them.
However, I was totally bored today, so I started mindmapping
and outlining a basic concept for the German army, hope you'll like it!
Here we go:
Some weeks ago I bought a book named "Wehrmacht - Eine Bilanz",
which gives some stats and facts about "Operation Barbarossa".
At the start, the German troops covered about 3000 km frontlines,
about 3 million soldiers fought against the russian.
The German army had 2000 planes, 3300 tanks + LOAD's of PaK's etc.
That's why I decided to make support-troops at least 4 men and normal squads 6,
several prototypes and units were only available to the Eastern Front,
so I decided to make them call-ins, like Sturmtigers.
German troops earn veterancy by fighting and are pretty expensive, but damn_tough guys. Buying vet wouldn't fit in the system
since vetted troops in CoH are called from the Eastern Front like said in the Kampfkraft-centre.
Their units have a wide range of abilities, which all have a pretty high cooldown (but still lower than PE's, about 30-45 seconds), which can only be reduced by using Munitionspanzers and doctrine-specific abilities like 'Assault'.
The Germans should have 3 tiers:
Tier [1] = basic starting-tier, Wehrmachtquarters (1st Building),
builds Grenadiers, mg's and mortars (after upgrade).
Tier [2] = Skirmish Escalation, Kampf-Kompanie (2nd building),
unlocks officer, builds Panzer III (after Upgrade), halftracks and the Pak 40 aswell as some kind of Bergepanzer.
Tier [3] = Assault Escalation, Sturm-Kommand (3rd building),
requires officer, builds units like Panthers, Pumas and Stormtroopers.
Waffenkammer, buildable at tier [1], it's similar to the Kampfkraftcenter and provides global upgrades, for example enables mortar's, Panzer III's, and 2 upgrades which are only available if you choose a specific Operation:
Assault Operations: Enables an upgrade for Stormtroopers to be armed with Stg's44 instead of mp38 (1) and veteran-officers which improve Infantry's fighting-capacities (2) [reducing supression and lowering veterancy-requirements] .
Defensive Operations: Enables building Flak88s (1) [for a load of ressources] and allows to mount mortars in modified bunkers (2) [ better protection from enemy fire].
Tank Operations: Enables your Pak's to use their ability 'Treadbreaker' - immobilization with low range (1) [good to stop an enemy tank trying to rush your PaK] and the ability to upgrade Panzer III's with 'Skurzen' (and a heavier maingun)(2) [increases survivability against heavier tanks].
Units out of Headquarters:
- Combat-Pioneers (4-man-squad), upgrades: Flamethrower, improved repairs, Minedetector,
builds buildings, tanktraps and mines etc.
- Officer (hardcap 1): adds, depending on picked doctrine,
specific abilities, improves nearby units stats.
- Kettenkrad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SdKfz_2), scout and similar to the bike.
Units:
- Panzergrenadiers (6-man-squad), upgrades:
Panzerschreck, Lmg42 (or another weapon like mp 38)
can ONLY throw grenades when upgraded with mp's or panzerschreck!
- Heavy 81mm mortar-troop (1 mortar per troop, 4-man-squad)
(2 for the mortar, 2 defenders with mg38)
- MG42-squad (4 men, 1 heavy mg42)
- Sdkfz 251 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SdKfz_251) Upgrades: Sdkfz 251/17: 2 cm Flak (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/2cm_Flak-Vierling_auf_mittlerem_Zugkraftwagen_8_t_sk.jpg/180px-2cm_Flak-Vierling_auf_mittlerem_Zugkraftwagen_8_t_sk.jpg), Sdkfz 251/22 - 7.5cm PaK40 L/46, can carry PaK's (lowers their speed and let them take more damage, but also doubles PaK-speed)
- Panzer III (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_III)
- Panther (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther_tank)
- Puma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Panzerspähwagen), upgrade: 50mm main cannon
- 7,5 cm PaK-40 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_PaK_40)
- Stormtroopers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormtroopers) (4 men), elite Infantry used for assaults,
can cloak and starts armed with mp-40's and panzerfausts.
Sniper, armed with a Kar98.
Doctrines:
Assault-Operations:
(Officers become armed with Stg44 and get an ability to focus artillery- and mortarfire on a certain point, regardless of eventual cooldown, increases damage-output for nearby grenadiers)
Right side: Artillery Support
- Mortar-Training: higher range & rate of fire, mortar production-speed is raised by 100%, troops start as vet 1 (2 points)
- Heavy Offmap-Artillery: Gustav artillery or 155mm offmap. (2 points)
- call-in of the Hummel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummel_(artillery))-selfpropelled artillery(hardcap 2) (4 points)
left side: Urban Warfare
- Assault-Grenadiers: Upgrades grenadiers to throw better grenades over longer range (1 point)
- Assault: Available for vetted troops, breaks supression, increases speed and
reduces grenade-cooldown by 75%), but assaulting troops take additional damage. (2 points)
- Call-in Sturmtiger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmtiger)(1 time). Modified Tiger I armed
with a massive short-ranged Mortar which shreds buildings and enemy infantry. Each shot takes munitions. (4 points)
Hold the Line-Operations
(enables troops to retreat to the Officer like brits to the captain, adds life-regeneration to units and
gives defensive boni in own territory)
left side: Defensive-Operations
- Hold the Line!: Ability that increases units' rate of fire, increases armour and reduces supression. Only usable on your territory.(1point)
- Scorched Earth: disable strat-point until its repaired, enables grenadiers to lay mines, wire, sandbags and tanktraps. (2 points)
- Reinforcements: 2 Panzer-III's + grenadiers arrive on the battlefield, alternative: 1 Panther + grenadiers. (5 points)
Right side: Zeal
- Improved defenses: bunkers gain additional health, troops can reinforce at bunkers. (2 points)
- Zeal: adds 1 additional mg42 in mg42-troops, squads start as vet 1, troops fight better when loosing units. (2 points)
- call-in 2 Wespe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wespe) medium Artillery(hardcap 4). (2 points)
Tank-Operations
(enables officers to reveal parts of the map via binoculars and to call in Luftwaffe-Bombardments)
Left side: Logistics:
- fast deployment: increase Productionspeed for tanks by 200% for 60 seconds (costs munitions). (1 point)
- Improved-AT-munitions: enables PaK's and tanks to fire improved shells which penetrate more often. (2 points)
- call-in Munitionspanzer III (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munitionspanzer_III): decreases cooldown between shots for nearby tanks, Artillery and grenadiers.
Also able to lay mines and spawns Goliaths.(2 points)
Right Side: Blitzkrieg!
- Crew-Training: tanks start with vet 1, mg-gunners are automatically added to the tanks. (2 points)
- call-in Ferdinand Tank Hunter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elefant). (3 points).
- call-in Jagdtiger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdtiger) (1 time).(4 points)
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wehrmacht killed innocent people too.beeing i wehrmach was a crime after war
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That is totally untrue. The Wehrmacht was the name of the German Army (Wehrmacht Heer, Kriegmarine, and Luftwaffe). Being in the German Army was not a crime. People where only arrested for War Crimes, such as murder of civilians etc, usually things that broke the Geneva Convention treaties.
Edit: Sorry dArCReAvEr, ill check out your list in detail soon, just about to have a game with Lone Commissar.
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Imho, unlike the soldiers of other armies, Germans are those who often follow orders. So why they take part in many war crimes. They were more unlucky than soldiers in other armies i think.
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:-P You'll like it, details have to be figured out etc, but at least I like those suggestions ;)
Regarding to the Wehrmacht:
To an extend, especially at the eastern Front, Wehrmacht was involved into several war crimes, like the treatment of Prisoners of War. Because the Wehrmacht undersupplied them, many died of hunger. But like I said: The Wehrmacht is not responsible for most damage, it was done by the SS, Hitlers ideology-warriors ... The whole involvement is VERY complicated. For example there were whole divisions which didn't take action in executions, other battalions were even asked by SS-soldiers to watch those executions - for fun. Several Officers were VERY antisemitic and ruled with iron fist in their controlled zones, others not...
Like I said: VERY complicated...
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It's always complicated with extremists and true soldiers involved, look at most 3rd world dictatorships. And when you then add citizen soldiery and total war and basically it all turns into a blurry mess.
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Atylaska, you are exxaggerating a lot. During times of war, war crimes are commited. So did the Wehrmacht. Put not to the extend you put it.
Creaver your detailed list is very nice, thanks a lot. We will definitely look at it.
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Great to hear that :)
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And the Russians didn't rape a lot of women entering Germany? Of course they did. Both sides committed some awful acts. Don't come with the "They did it first", please. I really think the SS should be in the game. All in the SS weren't stone cold NS. Divisions like SS-leibstandarte Adolf Hitler were hardcore NS though.
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They were ALL NS -.- Cause the Sturmstaffel was Hitlers Ideological Eliteforce. In the Beginning 95% of its soldiers were Blond and had Blue eyes, over 1,80metres tall (They were called 'Arier', Ubermensch). They were indoctrinated to show no fear and to show no mercy against Russians, Polands and Jews.
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Well I don't agree with you. It's Schutzstaffel btw. And if were propagating for Stalin why can't SS be included? Stalin killed more people than Hitler in Gulag. (Bad argument, I know.)
Lets keep this mod/site apolitical and do it correct and historically accurate. Furthermore what says an NS SS soldier is evil? They sure weren't the people signing the contract of the "Final solution". They weren't indoctrinated with killing civilians even though some stupid officers encouraged it. The fact is that many of the civilians shot had some role in society and were dangerous. But many (if not most) had nothing to do with it also. I agree with you it's always horrible when civilians get trapped in a raging war. But to say all SS soldiers were evil is just so wrong.
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Look at those pictures.
http://libreopinion.com/members/leondegrelle/storyofthewaffenss.html
"Then, in 1941 during the great clash with the Soviet Union, rose the European Waffen SS. Young men from the most distant countries fought together on the Russian front."
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Some info
Of course Red army soldiers had raped german women. But, there are not so many raped women, as some historians are talking about, because the was an order signed by Marshal Zhukov, that if soldier would be "cached" during raping, he will be shoot like a traitor or deserter. And in the beginning, there are some soldiers, killed by NKVD or army officers.
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Disclaimer: I DO NOT want to insult anybody in this topic, I just want to state that the whole picture has to be seen and not just some parts. A pro-contra argumentation WILL fail, cause this subject is SO complicated.
"Furthermore what says an NS SS soldier is evil? They sure weren't the people signing the contract of the "Final solution". They weren't indoctrinated with killing civilians even though some stupid officers encouraged it."
I recommend reading Guido Knopps (German WW2-Historian) book "The Wehrmacht - A Review" (in German: "Die Wehrmacht - Eine Bilanz") (I don't know if it's available in english speech tbh). It deals detailed and differiantiated with the Wehrmacht aswell as with the Waffen SS and its role in the 2nd World War. Very interesting to read.
Look at those pictures.
http://libreopinion.com/members/leondegrelle/storyofthewaffenss.html
"Then, in 1941 during the great clash with the Soviet Union, rose the European Waffen SS. Young men from the most distant countries fought together on the Russian front."
Guido Knopp also produced MASSES of documentations about the 3rd Reich, about the maincharacters (Hitler, Göring, Goebbels, Himmler, Eichmann etc.), about the German Society and of course about the Armies.
He made a trilogy "Die Waffen-SS - Hitlers Glaubenskrieger" (The Waffen-SS - Hitlers Warriors), in which he described the rise and fall of the German SS-Divisions, starting as a distinct group of "Ariers" to a multicultural company, which were recruited due to a lack of new Ariers which could've been recruted. So it was a necessity. If enough blond poeple had been available they'd kicked them ALL out. The Nazis were EXTREMELY disrespectful agianst ppl which didn't fit in their "Übermensch"-racesystem.
However, during the French-war MANY SS-soldiers commited (or at least had to commit) crimes against civilians, en masse, especially executions. The amount of people killed lay in responsibly of officers, but the people were killed. Even more at the Russian Front.
But W/E, I recommend watching documentations about the 3rd Reich (I'm doing that since I'm 12 [Now I'm 20] ), reading detailed books and argumentations, then come back and say the SS is nice to be played. (Mom, I'll count the amount of documentations about N/S ideology currently on my PC: 34, books I've read : ~ 7, articles I read: at least roughly 100. I think I know a lot about this topic.
Btw: I'm German ;)
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I believe many volunteered in the SS to fight communism like the Scandinavian Viking division. For the volunteers I think that was what it was mostly about that. Not the ideology of the Third Reich. It is indeed very complicated but to say all in the SS were NS is wrong. As I said many neutral people joined to fight communism.
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No offence to anyone, and this isn't directed at anyone particular, but i hate when people want to change mods or games simply due to personal feelings. If the SS are the historical side that fought a lot on the Eastern Front, they'll be added (eventually), people will play them no matter who they are or there name, simply because they are a cool new side. I don't in any way agree with any kinds of terrible acts committed by anyone in any wars, but that won't stop a mod from including what should be in it.
Please, personally (not as an admin or dev) i would prefer people didn't bitch about these sort of things, especially since you aren't the people that committed said acts, which means you have no clue what was going through these peoples heads when they did these things, or the thoughts of those that ordered them, and in my opinion that means you don't really have the authority to say these mostly normal people were disgusting monsters. I believe that the only person that can really explain anything that is done, is the person that did it, they are the only one that can know why, whether the person is a soldier, a politician or an every day human being, they are the only ones that know what they are thinking.
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I think that the SS already is in the game. The PE is disguised SS for me.
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I think that the SS already is in the game. The PE is disguised SS for me.
Actually, it's probably based on Ligt armoured Scouting Battalions, you can see that due to the Scout Cars which were only delivered to armoured Scouts...
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Ugh, why do people have to bring up war crimes? 20 million Russians were killed by the Germans whether they be SS (and can we please say that there was more to the SS than the SS the Waffen-SS did the actual fighting the others WERE there to kill the "untermensch" and other delightful things) or other German forces. However, if you were that indoctrinated and told to do stuff like that why not? Also, the Russians did rape some women as they moved into Germany ,however, this is often grossly over exaggerated by Western historians to try and make it out as though the Russians were some kind of monsters though it did happen I admit. Now can we please leave this out of here. This topic is for talking about new German units. We shouldn't need to get a moderator for this thread (does anyone know if we actually have one for this forum?). Some SS units could be a nice addition I think, as a kind of elite core for the Ost Germans.
Dragon93 - Of course Western Historians did that, hence the Cold War and anti-communist beliefs.
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Oh thanks Dragon at least I know I can trust you! ;D
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Oh yes, I suppose Gulag too is a lie?
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What I'm saying is that a lot of stuff is propaganda. Gulags did exist I know but no one in WW2 was perfect and to be frank I believe the police state could've strengthened the USSR.
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If you include the King Tiger you could include the su as a balance :dink: but if there is one tank I want to see it has to be the Elefant ;D
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Well something like the king tiger will already be in it for warmacht. If we include the Elefant it will be for Single player (Look at the ferdinand we have) :)
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Ok I'm bored at work and here are some ideas. Oh by the way, first time poster. Love the idea, been waiting for this...
Doctrines:
Luftwaffe Superiority
One side could be: Storch - similar to the P47 recon but perhaps it could fly in and circle an area for 30 seconds? It's slow and unarmored so anti aircraft guns could make it easy prey.
BF-109 Ace- This would be like the Storch except instead of a Storch it'd be a couple of Bf-109 F's flying a CAP (combat air patrol) over a sector to protect it from enemy aircraft. Essentially any aircraft used would get instantly shot down.
Call of the siren- This would work like the V-1 in how it's used. You pick an area then you hear a Stuka siren getting louder and louder until you see it come into screen and pulling up dropping 4 50kg bombs and 1 250 kb bombs. It would cause quite a bit of damage.
Other branch:
Fallschirmjaeger- Same as in the luft waffe branch except that they actually drop much like the airborne unit. Also for anti tank abilities they get the....i can think of the name of it, but its a magnetic shaped charge.
Zerstorer attack- An Me-110 comes in and strafes with its 20mm nose cannons. Does severe damage to squads and light armored vehicles.
Carpet bomb- Ju-88's come in and carpet bomb a sector. It isn't a very intense bombing so it wont be extremely devastating but it still gets the job done.
Urban Experience commander
One branch side:
Trip flare- Allows all infantry units to place a trip wire in a small area. When tripped a flare will launch into the air removing any FoW for 20 seconds.
Garrison reenforcement- This allows any garrison building turned into a barracks to have a better protection and an mg42 guard.
Fear the fatherland!- This will work like the allied war machine in that when a squad is killed it is immediately replaced at the HQ
Other branch side-
Urban camoflage- When units are near a building of any type for 3 seconds they become cloaked.
Danger close!- You use this ability on your own infantry in a bind, it will work like the defensive artillery ability except the rounds will all around the unit that "called it in"
Off the train!- This will work like the American divisional reinforcements. In it will be random low tier units.
Thats all i can think of for doctrines so far.
As for units-
Panzer II- this will be much like the armor cars and puma. for 50 muni you can make it the Flamingo varient which will be a longer range flame thrower.
Panzer 38t - this will be somewhat like the stuart, an early game light tank. It will have a high velocity 37mm cannon like the stuart but instead of the canister rounds it will have the retreat ability like infantry have giving it a high speed fallback saving it if its in trouble. This is something that will help you keep your armored advantage early game incase of bazookas and such!
Panzer III F- It will be like the PIV the P.E. have but it can be upgraded to a PIII L giving it a more anti tank role than anything. Has smoke grenade ability.
Panzerjaeger 731- Basically it was a captured universal carrier (brits and lend leased to the soviets so it works) that had 3 panzer shrecks mounted on it and also usually had plenty of panzer fausts. This would fire, slowly, volleys of panzershrecks and have the ability of "Give 'em hell!" which fires 3 shrecks and a couple of panzerfausts at once but then it can't fire for 20 seconds. It'll be a little more costly than the british bren carrier but have just the same armor (ie easily killed)
Radio man- This unit has a good LOS and can be used like the german officer. It can call in 81mm barrages and when vet 3 can call off map arty
Feldmarshall- like the captain, it can help increase the damage and power of defensive structures or units.
Elite wermacht sniper- almost twice cost of a normal sniper but has a scoped g43 and spotter. increased LOS and if the sniper gets sniped, the spotter can return fire and kill the sniper that shot. Takes over sniper duty.
Mg34 squad- Germans used tactics revolving around the machine gun as opposed to americans using it in support of the rifle squad. It will be a 5 man squad with the mg included. If the mg goes down, someone else takes over. Has the ability to launch a slow flare in which the MG unleashes hell for 10 seconds. 10 second cool off for barrel change.
sdkfz 231 command vehicle. 2 ideas. Either it can be used like the command tank the brits have (it'll have much less armor but have the ability to shoot 20mm) oorrrr it can be used like an HQ, something to where i starts in the beginning and instead of building buildings which trains troops you get the ability and then the units just come off screen. I dunno, play around with the idea i suppose.
Brandenburgers- this was the german version of the SAS commandoes. These guys can use the camoflage ability have have the ability to take over low tier vehicles and crew served weapons. Like perhaps they drop a grenade in the hatch of a tank and man it or use a pistol to execute the crew served men from behind...something to that effect, would be a coding/animators nightmare but you get the idea.
There was a version of the sdkfz 250 that had what was basically nebelwerfer rockets on it. It would have the same armor as the P.E. halftracks and the same distance and damage as the nebelwerfers making for quick and effective indirect fire support.
These are only some ideas. I will think of some more later.
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Also thought of another doctrine.
Hold the line-
The left side will be as follows:
Pioneer Opel Blitz- This is an engineering opel blitz that can build the standard stuff (barbed wire, mines, tank obs., etc) but it can also build a flak 20 (basically a flakveirling 38, but 1 barrel) and it would be placed in an entrenchment like say the british mortar pit or 17 pounder.
Adv. Opel Blitz- Same as the previous but now has the option of building a mortar pit with the inc. mortar rounds as well
Elite Opel Blitz- Same as before but now can build an entrenched 88 with the special ability to fire APCR rounds for 20 seconds.
The right side will be as follows:
"Man down!" This features offers a medic opel blitz. It will function just like the medic bunkers but that it can actually move with the combat. You can't reinforce your troops but you can get new squads after the sanitators (medics) grab enough bodies and they will come out of the truck.
"Call of the Wild"- This allows you to buy the Sturmpanzer IV G with it's 150mm infantry support cannon. It would be like a Stuh 42 but much thicker armor, an mg34 and 150mm instead of 105mm.
"Stalking Tiger"- This would be the "super tank" that this side gets. It will call in 1 Jagdtiger. It will be more powerful than the Jagdpanther but also much slower.
Other ideas for units and ideas of mentioned units:
I think a kubelwagon would be a good idea for a recon unit for these Ost Front germans. Make it a normal kubel but upgradable to mount an mg34.
For artillery give it the ability of bracket fire. This would be a predetermined line that the arty would "zero in" and when needed could be called to fire down the line. It would make defenses even more deadly, as units try to move in, fire on the zeroed area could be deadly.
Pak 40- This would have a 5 man crew, making it last longer from suprise flank attacks. It alone is deadly as is, so it wont need any special abilities.
Pak 36- an alternate for ATG's. This is a very light weight cannon making it the fastest on foot. For a TWIST, for muni you can use the 37mm stielgranate 41 which would cause devistating damage to a tank. But to fire it would take some time. Basically its like a rifle grenade for the cannon making a once obselete gun into a deadly one. If you remember the Band of Brothers episode when they were in Carentan the german's used this twice, one of them nearly killing 1st Sgt Lipton.
As for normal infantry...well the grenadiers are as standard as you can really get so I dunno...
Also for those talking about the SS (which should be posted outside the German unit ideas...clouds it up..) There are reasons the SS aren't mentioned and thats because of sales. In Germany it is illegal to sell games with any affiliation to the SS and Nazi regime. Thats why in many mods you see an iron cross instead of a swatzstika. I consider the panzer elite basically the SS as the SS were typically elite units in Germany. Also because I believe in market garden in which the P.E. campaign takes place, is where the 9th and 10th SS panzer divisions laid. Kinda narrows it down...
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Panzer Elite is most likely based on the elite Wehrmacht (regular army) division "Grossdeutschland". They had an even higher priority than the Waffen-SS when it came to equipment. The SS flags and songs aren't really banned in Germany. The Swastika is banned when used in certain ways or purposes (it is allowed to have it historically accurate in a mod for example). What is not allowed is to use the flag publicly or for hate purposes for example.
If I see a flag from communist Russia (which I assume will be in the mod?) I know that that regime has killed even more people than nazi-Germany (so why is this biasness?). I like your ideas btw. I would love if the K5 Leopold rail gun would be included in the mod.
I really hope you will have realistic damage in the mod (for example one or two King Tiger shots is enough to take out a T34 at close range) and that it won't take over a minute for an MG42 to pick off a larger squad.
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It would make sense that the elite Wermacht unit would be portrayed by the P.E. the Grossdeutschland did not engage in the defense of Holland during Market Garden, they were fighting in the defense of Romania. So either THQ wanted to make the Grossdeutschland and just use Operation Market garden as the scenario to fight the brits or they just don't really care to read into the history.
The ideas I came up with for the Doctrines and Ost Front germans was mainly to counter the britsh defensive build that they have. In terms of defense I feel that the Axis side is somewhat lacking. Maybe, perhaps, a german doctrine called something along the lines of "Forgotten Brothers" or something that can let you call in Italian and Romanian units?
I'll keep thinking of ideas and spitting them out here.
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Concerning sides, why not have the germans as the 11 armee led by Erich Von Manstein, part of army group south.
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A nice piece of artillery for the Russians would be the 76.2mm Type 39 Howitzer
Range:14,766yds
Weight of shot:13.75lbs
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Read the title: New GERMAN units. ;D
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Any developer's thoughts on my ideas? Pretty quiet on these forums... =[
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Sorry, ive been having some internet problems lately. I like the ideas, I know Apex would hate more defences, he thinks it would just create stale mates. But i quiet like it. I've got two books on German and Soviet defences of WW2 (not including the huge defensive lines, other book) and it shows some really cool stuff i would love to implement. Personally i think the Soviets and the German sides should have a nice selection of emplacements and defences. Good assault weapons and tanks etc. as well, but a large selection of defences too. The PaK-36 sounds cool, but sadly i haven't seen Band of Brothers, so im not totally sure what it would be like.
About the SS thing. There was a whole topic about it on Relic.
When legalities say "display" they mean in a public area, a game/Mod is a personal area (while it might be public in offering the use is personal - just as you watch a movie, but if you play it for money and invite the public you get into trouble).
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Um, Apex was behind EiR which is nearly instant battle. Of course he hates defences, honestly I think he just doesn't like buildings in general. ;D
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Apex wasn't exactly behind EiR. I mean the creator and founder is Fldash. But yeh, i don't think he's a great fan of anything static.
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Well I think defense is as important as offense. It gives the player another strategy to work with. Like I hate having to pick the luftwaffe branch as P.E. if I want any kind of static defense. And with my other ideas, even with the defensive structure there is still a lot of units that would help in a good strong offense. But this is a suggestion forum..so if you guys got some better ideas I can't wait to see them.
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i like jhonnyraygun's ides but his lufftwaffe usgjestion is a bit od cuse it wouldent work with airsuport on both sides, what would u call tehm? airsuport 1 and 2? and i dont think any fighters will be nesecary cuse air battles isent that big. but i like the opel blitz ideas realy cool, i just wonder how you think: will the truck go to the site and build the structure or will it jump out a cuple of pioners and build it and then jump on the truck again? and i realy think all teams shuld be able to build trenches with basic inantery.
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Well they were ideas while I was bored. The Storch would be a good idea. As for the bf109's its a situational trait. For instance, if the player is using the airborne command tree, the bf109's could shoot down the p47s and possibly the paras and atg. It would give you a window of opportunity to attack with air cover. And I say this because as it stands right now AA guns are not for planes but infantry. It's uncommon to shoot down a plane as is and when you do it's usually after it's done it's damage with no penalty to the player (IE like a longer cooling period for losing a plane)
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actually if the axis do ostwindspam or have 88s, there is a strategy like letting th eplane deliberately crash on their siede evrytime. that can happen if u let the plane fly directly ove rthe pe base and the flak88. it can crash the whole 88 sometimes. it only costs mun if it kills something. if it doesn#t its free, so you can order a dozen of them. if you are fast the 88 is gone in a matte rof seconds
thats why shooting planes is not a good idea. we should keep it like vcoh. its no airplane simulator after all. also bf109 was obsolete in 1943, betteruse fw190 or me262 or me163. fw190 yould also make a bombingrun. but better would indeed be the stuka kanonenvogel, which was much more commonly used in antitank than the henschel.
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perhaps u could include the maus? Yes it was ridiculously big and never really made the batterfield, but one did fight in Berlin when it came off it's production line. 8 points or so
A kettenkrad with two people on the back with mp44s as a tier one scout
Nashorn flamethrower variant (better at than a usual flamethrower)
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Very suprinsingly Ive read the whole new german unit article and havent seen any suggestions on the panzerII which did not stop production during Barbarossa until 1943. As for artillery I have a idea about being able to create the LEhf 75 howitzer, which on the Eastern front was used as a antitank in 1942-1945. You really dont need to create the LEfh becuase BotB mod has already done that so you could borrow it from them.
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Howabout the Sturmpanzer 4 aka. Brummbaer. It's much like the sturmtiger from Botb mod but using a panzer4 chassis thus having reduced armor but faster speed. It could be called in as a reinforcement from the arty doctrine. Basically its like the P.E. Hummel. AND it saw action in kursk so its relevant to the E.F mod.
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Well this thread has risen from the grave hasn't it :P
Well the Panzer II, albeit the "Flammingo" varient, has been included in 2 of the Ostheer idea threads, as has a type of howitzer, the most likely to be used will be the one included in the ToV campaign.
The Sturmtiger has also been mentioned in both of the large Ostheer threads at the moment, plus a model or two already exists, so it would be much more likely to be included :)
Cheers
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about those SS u could include them in one of the doctrine as foreign waffen-ss (like guys from french "charlemagne" ,latvian legionaires or scandinavian "wiking" divisions).they could be 5 man group armed with g43 and leader of the group with stg44, they could be upgraded with 2 mg42's or whole gruoup with stg44 and abilities like camouflage,panzefaust strike(shooting 2 or 3 panzerfausts at same time that coud cost 100 munition points and cooldown for 2 minutes) and ability called "crusade against bolshevism" so they are imposible to be suppresed or be pinned by red army for some time and could cost ~50 munition points. P.S sorry for my bad english
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for the germans the Estonians Volunteers SS Group
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I like the idea of implementing the " SdKfz. 3 „Maultier“ " with Nebelwerfer-42-upgrade.^^
Now a little bit more serious:
The SdKfz 253
Its mission is to observe the enemy - with an hugh area of sight it can observe from Berlin to Moskow and give the own artillery wonderful sight.
It can detect camoflaged units and call in some mortar-barrage.
But itself got no armament and less plating so it is very vulnerable.
The special passive ability: it can auto-camoflage after 10secs still standing in Cover (like the Goliath, but it can get detected^^).
So its a wonderful support-unit, but it got its weaknesses.
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See the Elefant was a nice surprise for me. But see Panzer IV, STUG IV and halftrack : already in the game... I wish Ostheer will be very different than WM & PE.
So, this is a list of german vehicle used in WWII. All vehicle name wich start by * are not yet in the game. Try to use it. For example Panzer III was often used for covering Tiger (or Panzer IV) (with a ratio of two Panzer III for one Tiger), but Relic had never the idea to put it in the game.
BMW R12
*Kübelwagen
*Opel Blitz – Kfz 79 (A medic truck will be nice ^^)
*Auto-Union/Horch 109 Typ 40– Kfz. 31 “Sanka”
SdKfz 2 Kettenkrad
SdKfz 11
SdKfz 250
SdKfz 251
SdKfz 252
SdKfz 253
SdKfz 254
*Leichter Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 221
*Leichter Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 222
*Leichter Panzerspähwagen
SdKfz. 223
*Schwerer Panzerspähwagen
SdKfz. 231
*Schwerer Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 232
*Schwerer Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 233 Stummel
Schwerer Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 234 Puma
*Schwerer Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 263
French Hotchkiss H38
*Panzerkampfwagen I
*Panzerkampfwagen II
*Panzerkampfwagen III
Panzerkampfwagen IV
Panzerkampfwagen V Panther
Panzerkampfwagen V Panther
Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger
Panzerkampfwagen VI
Königstiger
*Panzerkampfwagen 35(t)
*Panzerkampfwagen 38(t)
*Wespe
Hummel
*Grille
*Panzerwerfer Maultier
*Sturmgeschütz III
Sturmgeschütz IV
Sturmgeschütz III Sturmhaubitze 42
*Sturmpanzer IV Brummbär
*Sturmtiger
*Panzerjäger I
*Marder I
*Marder II
Marder III
Jagdpanzer 38(t) Hetzer
*Jagdpanzer IV
Jagdpanzer V Jagdpanther
Nashorn
*Jagdpanzer VI Jagdtiger
*Jagdpanzer Elefant
*Flakpanzer IV Möbelwagen
Flakpanzer IV Wirbelwind
Flakpanzer IV Ostwind
*Flakpanzer IV Kugelblitz
*Flakpanzer 38(t)
The Wermacht and the panzer Elite have both Panzer IV and Panther. Also, you can choose to put only one vehicle already use. A Doctrine used only one time which give you a Tiger and two Panzer III is a nice idea for example. With Wermacht you can have only once a KoenigTiger or create Tiger when you want if you have not a Tiger on the map. Ostheer doctrine will be a little diferent because it create a basic Tiger and an escort of two little Panzer III but only once.
Good luck for your work.
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*Leichter Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 221
*Leichter Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 222
-> Both are in the game ;) Panzer Elite.
But their is no StuH because their wasn a
StuH on the Panzer IV.
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*Marder I
Its the Geschutzwagen from ToV.
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*Sturmpanzer I Bison.
Self propelled arty on the chassis of a Panzer I.
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I believe that for a heavier recon unit that might stand up to armored cars would be the panzer II. Albeit not an extremely fast tank (Averaging around 40 Km/h), it might compare in fire power. It has a 2 cm KwK 30 L/55 Ausf.A–f and a 2 cm KwK 38 L/55 Ausf.J–L. This would be a good early tank to combat the Stuart and armored cars. I think that being such an incredibly week unit it's main advantages would be early armor and a low cost. The low cost being that they where already in service for some time and are in reserve.
What do you guys think?
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what do u guys think about ability for finnish ski troops to booby trap buildings and strategic points?
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i thought their will be ONLY german units in the ostheer?
so why do you talk about finnish ski soldiers ???
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Ski troops? Surely not :P We couldn't make them Ski for a start, and on non-snow maps they'd just look ridiculous.
If we're including any Finns (and thats a big IF... although there is increasing demand for and I'd hate to dissapoint but its not up to me) I'm in favour of having the Finnish Jalkavaki as a call in squad. Elite troops that can build defences, similar to the Luftwaffe ground forces.
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I found some pretty unique German vehicles for the Ostheer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelblitz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelblitz)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuschrecke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuschrecke)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_I)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marder_II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marder_II)
They would add some variety from the other German factions.
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The main reason I want the Russians is because I want NEW UNITS, So when you the Developers for this amazing game start choosing vehicles for the Ostheer please, PLEASE dont use the same units as in Wer and PE, aka Panthers, shreks, MP44s,
btw, Nice Ideas for new German vehicles, Here's afew ideas, some from other mods,
88mm Pak 43 In a Bunker,
http://www.moddb.com/mods/nhcmod/images/88mm-pak-43#imagebox (http://www.moddb.com/mods/nhcmod/images/88mm-pak-43#imagebox)
German Sd. Kfz. 251/22 Hanomag with PaK 40 Anti-Tank Gun,
yea, Its a PE Light-AT Halftrack on steroids, but it looks 100% Badass
(http://www.wartoyz.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/tc10109s2-hanomag-pak40-450.jpg)
German - 2cm Flak 30 Light Anti-Aircraft Gun, Remember saving Private Ryan?
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2126/1673790092_0de0453f6b.jpg)
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(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4959/pak4007.th.jpg) (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pak4007.jpg)(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3415/pak4006.th.jpg) (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pak4006.jpg)
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the uber at halfy thing would make for a nice AT vehichle seeing as you guys did want to add something like that if i recall from earlier with your questions on hetzer or marder 3, and besides this thing looks 100% bad ass
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I like the Heuschrecke... shame only 10 prototypes were ever made. Not that it would stop us, we already have a prototype T-90 for the Soviets. Could be a call in vehicle, similar to the StuH (since they both seem to have 105mm guns).
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The main reason I want the Russians is because I want NEW UNITS, So when you the Developers for this amazing game start choosing vehicles for the Ostheer please, PLEASE dont use the same units as in Wer and PE, aka Panthers, shreks, MP44s,
btw, Nice Ideas for new German vehicles, Here's afew ideas, some from other mods,
An eastern front without the Panther? Without Panzerschreck? I think this is a problem because both weaponsystems were very important for the easter front.
What would be a battle of kursk without the Panther? ;)
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We'll probably make new skins and variations for the Panthers, PanzerIV, Shreks and stuff that are currently in game. I'm in favour of adding new units and weapons, but currently there's not much else that's fresh (not like the Jagdpanzer, Sturmtiger, Maultier, etc that have been done by other mods) other than early war Tanks, the 300mm Nebelwerfer/Raketenwerfer, and maybe the MG-34.
And don't even start to think about suggesting the Maus... dunno how many times that's been mentioned. Too many.
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What is with the Nashorn? The StuG III? Panzer III? And so on ^^ I think that their are a lot of tanks for the german ostheer, but some of the old tanks should be inclouded too.
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i came whit the maus >< and now i have a new idea :the Bergepanther. that could tow tanks out of the battle line and repair the (not make a scrap 1 to a new tank but just fix em)
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what about the ratte tank????
Huge fortress tank.
Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte
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So when you the Developers for this amazing game start choosing vehicles for the Ostheer please, PLEASE dont use the same units as in Wer and PE, aka Panthers, shreks, MP44s,
btw
+1
Panzer II and II will be nice. Keep only the Panzer IV. A common tank beetween german factions it's nice.
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(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4959/pak4007.th.jpg) (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pak4007.jpg)(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3415/pak4006.th.jpg) (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pak4006.jpg)
Damn, you guys are quick on the draw,
ok, seeing another Pz4, or Panther is not a total loss, less time to bring the army into action, ;D
Still, bending the rules is fine by me,
(http://www.falconbbs.com/m46-105.jpg)
Still dont want to add the italian army?
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German Ostheer ::)
Their are enought german units and weapons
and perhaps all of us are happy when we will se
a new, correct panther or kingtiger xD
kingtiger with henschelturret were very cool ;D
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Ski troops? Surely not :P We couldn't make them Ski for a start, and on non-snow maps they'd just look ridiculous.
If we're including any Finns (and thats a big IF... although there is increasing demand for and I'd hate to dissapoint but its not up to me) I'm in favour of having the Finnish Jalkavaki as a call in squad. Elite troops that can build defences, similar to the Luftwaffe ground forces.
yeah i was thinking those jalkavaki's ;) if u guys add them to ostheer i think they should be something like stormtroopers with ability to booby trap buildings and other stuff
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exist a legend about the Maus in battle.
Let's make a Maus unit.
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And don't even start to think about suggesting the Maus... dunno how many times that's been mentioned. Too many.
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some ppl do seem to like the maus, lol.
it's almost obsessive behaviour.
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Our mod is not historical already as I see. So why do not add something unhistorical?
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Being so big, pathfinding for the Maus will be almost impossible on most maps. Also lets be honest, it is a bit over-the-top for a skirmish.
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a maus should destroy a sherman tank in 1 shot from the back and rear, amd a pershin tank in 2 shots.
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i remember a reply like : put it in the campain lets do that
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yea, I mean the tanks at the end of the British Campaign were really super tanks right?
So, why not one Big Boss Battle for fun?
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(http://www.tankinfo.ru/Country/Germany/2/heavy/images/Typ_205-1.gif)
(http://savepic.ru/525002.jpg)
It isn't so big ^_^
(http://img.crazys.info/files/i/2007.11.6/1194317770_maus3.jpg)
(http://www.tank2.ru/img/model/196/1532maus5jg0.jpg)
(http://www.tank2.ru/img/model/196/9479maus4cv7.jpg)
And Russian KB-4 near the Maus
(http://www.soverkon.ru/2006/40/p07_kb4.jpg)
and Jagdtiger and the Maus
(http://maximmoroz.ru/images/stories/authors/MaximMoroz/articles/TankMuseum/Jagdtiger.jpg)
(http://maximmoroz.ru/images/stories/authors/MaximMoroz/articles/TankMuseum/Maus.jpg)
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We're not adding a Maus. In reality it was a useless prototype that broke down and had to be destroyed by its crew.
In a simulation where fuel consumption and mechanical problems don't exist, the tank would simply be a huge annoying slow bastard that takes far too much effort to destroy.
Both Maus prototypes tried to flee advancing Soviet forces to avoid being captured. The Soviets overran the one with the dummy turret first, but the one with the working turret escaped, before breaking down and being scuttled by its crew. Some Soviet sources obviously would have liked people to believe they destroyed it themselves, but we know this is highly unlikely given the size of the thing.
Chasing one down in a campaign mission would be fun though... it would make an awesome boss, similar to US mission where you destroy the Tiger Ace.
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Bergepanther was the best armoured recovery vehicle of the WWII
(http://img-kiev.fotki.yandex.ru/get/14/valiant-17.11/0_776b_9d4ab871_XL)
It didn't have a turret
An open platform, crane boom and winch were installed on a chassis «Panther». First samples were armed with 20-mm automatic cannon, next - 7,92-mm MG-34.
(http://www.portierramaryaire.com/imagenes/bergepanther_esq.jpg)
(http://www.corazzati.it/bergepanther_800.jpg)
(http://www.cardarmy.ru/stanok/bergepanther/ready/ready-1.jpg)
(http://www.cardarmy.ru/stanok/bergepanther/ready/ready-7.jpg)
(http://www.mf-panzermodellbau.de/bergepanther-front-2.jpg)
It can repair and restore destructed (not heavy) vehicles, can carry German engineers (maybe 3 squads of pioneers), who will be use 2 MG (a main gun can works without crew) and can shoot (and repair?) from inside a platform.
Generally, it is mix of Kangaroo and Bergetiger. This is my idea.
P.S. I found a Bergetiger of the PE ^_^ (http://keep4u.ru/imgs/b/070727/03176394b85b3fe777.jpg)
(http://www.casmodels.org/images/17bergetiger.jpg)(http://klub.chip.pl/krzemek/tiger/bergetigerm.jpg)
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The Bergepanther and the Maus is not bad idea (the berge is better :)
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I think the Maus would be a tank for an other mod idea.
Too slow, too heavy, too much for CoH.
I think a lot of people would think that EF is crazy when they would a such a tank. Jagdtiger in CoH is perhaps the end of balancing ( rolling bunker with the best anti tank gun ).
If you would balance the Maus you could not call it anylonger Maus because it would get too bad or you would have no chance against this overpowered tank.
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bergepanter good idea and a said b4 maus as soviet mission would b gr8
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Will they be including a Sturmtiger?
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(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7127/panzerwerfer42a.jpg)
A thing of beauty if I do say so myself,
Is it fully functional yet?
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It is a Panzerwerfer 42 auf Selbstfahrlafette Sd.Kfz.4/1
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A thing of beauty if I do say so myself,
Is it fully functional yet?
I think it should be, looks like a very nice re-skin of the one from BotB. Unless its a completely new version? :)
Cheers
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(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7127/panzerwerfer42a.jpg)
yes - halftrack model is from botb - but new "ingame" from me - :P
with new dif/spc/nrm/gls - files
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hello first to congratulate for this amazing mod.
you can add the Brummbär and infantry units of the Spanish Blue Division.
more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Division)
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/sturmpanzer-iv-brummbar-sd-kfz-166.htm (http://www.achtungpanzer.com/sturmpanzer-iv-brummbar-sd-kfz-166.htm)
the Brandenburgers unit is a very very good idea.
thanks for the mod.
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without words ;)
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1440/test2xa.th.jpg) (http://img12.imageshack.us/i/test2xa.jpg/)(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4332/test1dc.th.jpg) (http://img12.imageshack.us/i/test1dc.jpg/)
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Haha i just saw this and was about to ask about it ;D
Soo, as a stationary object on a map will it actually be able to fire?
Really cool to see campaign related things appearing :)
As always, great work.
Cheers
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that was only a test for my computer ;) : the rgm-file is about 110 mb big!
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I would happily destroy my bandwidth for such things ;D
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For Recon, i would suggest the Sdkfz 250/9 Recon Half Track. it was a Sdkfz 250 APC (infantry Halftrack from OF) with the Turret of a Sdkfz 222 Armoured Car (Armoured Car from OF) . it was very effective on the russian steppe, with a much greater range than an ordinary Armoured car.
plus it would be very easy to model (infantry Halftrack with Armoured Car Turret)
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Everybody knows the 88mm flak. on the wher,PE
But the germans also had a 88mm as arty.
so maby it is a good idea.
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Hello there ;)
Taking a look at the suggestions, i
got the idea to make suggestion on my own
Im thinking about tanks at the moment, orignially tanks for
the ostheer. There should be mostly other tanks/panzers used, than the tanks which where used in other axis faction already. I will just suggest tanks which would make the new axis faction orignial on thier chains.
So u guess, it would be great to get a, Panzerkampfwagen II/Panzerspähwagen II "Luchs"
as a very light tank for the beggining of the game.
sweet boy, right? :D
(http://worldwartwozone.com/photopost/data/500/medium/luchs.jpg)
Too go orignially on, the "wespe" is a great choise - just as some of you already suggested. Its also a smal tank, but it has a powerfull gun :)
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/downloads/Bilder/DiverseBilder/privatebilder/Panzer/DSC01849.JPG)
My next choise is the "Jagdpanzer 38" better known for Company players as hetzer. It was one of the most successfull tank of the WWII - and the ostheer should get the ability to build it even the usual way.
(http://www.modellbau-paul.at/galerie/gal06/hetzer_01.600x400.jpg)
Also, they should get a infantry halftrack, as we know it already - to support thier infantry and also to kill the ones of thier opponent.
Thier heavy main battle tank should probably be the "Ferdinat" or "elefant". Its a super heavy ugly beast, which is born to kick ass. Take a look at it:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-313-1004-25,_Italien,_Panzer_%22Elefant%22.jpg)
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These are the tanks, which i suggest as usual battle tanks.
for thier doctrine abilities, i chose other tanks which make this faction even more orignial!
To start with - there are 2 doctrines which got the ability to call in heavy vehicles.
The first one is got the ability to call in tanks to kill tanks.
some "jagdpanzer" - tanks which were often used on the ostfront ;) !
on the right side, this doctrine is got the ability to call in StuG.
Just as we know it from the wehrmacht :)
But on the other side, this guy is got the ability to call one hell of a huge beast on the battlefield - the heaviest tank ever built in a row - the "Jagdtiger." - Its as expensive as a king tiger and u can get it just once.
take a look at the new big boy:
(http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/TIGER-2%20PICS/jagdtiger-01.jpg)
The other doctrine using vehicles should be someone who likes to test new stuff, crazy stuff. "terror-doctrine" kind.
He is using mortals or atillary to beat his enemy.
I give u 3 suggestions which could be used as his special, weapon.
1st:
The "Brummbär" or "Sd.Kfz 166 Sturmpanzer IV".
a really powerfull tank with good abilities :)
(http://www.rommelkiste.de/Fahrzeuge/Brummbaer/Brummbaer02.jpg)
2nd:
The Sturmtiger - just a few where built, but it was very good too destroy heavy buildings and to support infantry!
(http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/2833/heer/selfpropelledgun/sturmtiger/sturmtiger-05.jpg)
3rd, my last suggestion surely nobody knows:
The "Gerät 040" - a 60cm mortal called Thor as well.
just 7 were build, but they were used succuessfully on the eastern front!
They would be a nice addition :)
(http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/downloads/Bilder/DiverseBilder/privatebilder/Panzer/DSC01887.JPG)
Just some suggestions ;) - if u have any question about tanks, u can always ask me ;)
-
However, I was totally bored today, so I started mindmapping
and outlining a basic concept for the German army, hope you'll like it!
Here we go:
Some weeks ago I bought a book named "Wehrmacht - Eine Bilanz",
which gives some stats and facts about "Operation Barbarossa".
At the start, the German troops covered about 3000 km frontlines,
about 3 million soldiers fought against the russian.
The German army had 2000 planes, 3300 tanks + LOAD's of PaK's etc.
That's why I decided to make support-troops at least 4 men and normal squads 6,
several prototypes and units were only available to the Eastern Front,
so I decided to make them call-ins, like Sturmtigers.
German troops earn veterancy by fighting and are pretty expensive, but damn_tough guys. Buying vet wouldn't fit in the system
since vetted troops in CoH are called from the Eastern Front like said in the Kampfkraft-centre.
Their units have a wide range of abilities, which all have a pretty high cooldown (but still lower than PE's, about 30-45 seconds), which can only be reduced by using Munitionspanzers and doctrine-specific abilities like 'Assault'.
The Germans should have 3 tiers:
Tier [1] = basic starting-tier, Wehrmachtquarters (1st Building),
builds Grenadiers, mg's and mortars (after upgrade).
Tier [2] = Skirmish Escalation, Kampf-Kompanie (2nd building),
unlocks officer, builds Panzer III (after Upgrade), halftracks and the Pak 40 aswell as some kind of Bergepanzer.
Tier [3] = Assault Escalation, Sturm-Kommand (3rd building),
requires officer, builds units like Panthers, Pumas and Stormtroopers.
Waffenkammer, buildable at tier [1], it's similar to the Kampfkraftcenter and provides global upgrades, for example enables mortar's, Panzer III's, and 2 upgrades which are only available if you choose a specific Operation:
Assault Operations: Enables an upgrade for Stormtroopers to be armed with Stg's44 instead of mp38 (1) and veteran-officers which improve Infantry's fighting-capacities (2) [reducing supression and lowering veterancy-requirements] .
Defensive Operations: Enables building Flak88s (1) [for a load of ressources] and allows to mount mortars in modified bunkers (2) [ better protection from enemy fire].
Tank Operations: Enables your Pak's to use their ability 'Treadbreaker' - immobilization with low range (1) [good to stop an enemy tank trying to rush your PaK] and the ability to upgrade Panzer III's with 'Skurzen' (and a heavier maingun)(2) [increases survivability against heavier tanks].
Units out of Headquarters:
- Combat-Pioneers (4-man-squad), upgrades: Flamethrower, improved repairs, Minedetector,
builds buildings, tanktraps and mines etc.
- Officer (hardcap 1): adds, depending on picked doctrine,
specific abilities, improves nearby units stats.
- Kettenkrad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SdKfz_2), scout and similar to the bike.
Units:
- Panzergrenadiers (6-man-squad), upgrades:
Panzerschreck, Lmg42 (or another weapon like mp 38)
can ONLY throw grenades when upgraded with mp's or panzerschreck!
- Heavy 81mm mortar-troop (1 mortar per troop, 4-man-squad)
(2 for the mortar, 2 defenders with mg38)
- MG42-squad (4 men, 1 heavy mg42)
- Sdkfz 251 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SdKfz_251) Upgrades: Sdkfz 251/17: 2 cm Flak (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/2cm_Flak-Vierling_auf_mittlerem_Zugkraftwagen_8_t_sk.jpg/180px-2cm_Flak-Vierling_auf_mittlerem_Zugkraftwagen_8_t_sk.jpg), Sdkfz 251/22 - 7.5cm PaK40 L/46, can carry PaK's (lowers their speed and let them take more damage, but also doubles PaK-speed)
- Panzer III (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_III)
- Panther (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther_tank)
- Puma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Panzerspähwagen), upgrade: 50mm main cannon
- 7,5 cm PaK-40 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_PaK_40)
- Stormtroopers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormtroopers) (4 men), elite Infantry used for assaults,
can cloak and starts armed with mp-40's and panzerfausts.
Sniper, armed with a Kar98.
Doctrines:
Assault-Operations:
(Officers become armed with Stg44 and get an ability to focus artillery- and mortarfire on a certain point, regardless of eventual cooldown, increases damage-output for nearby grenadiers)
Right side: Artillery Support
- Mortar-Training: higher range & rate of fire, mortar production-speed is raised by 100%, troops start as vet 1 (2 points)
- Heavy Offmap-Artillery: Gustav artillery or 155mm offmap. (2 points)
- call-in of the Hummel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummel_(artillery))-selfpropelled artillery(hardcap 2) (4 points)
left side: Urban Warfare
- Assault-Grenadiers: Upgrades grenadiers to throw better grenades over longer range (1 point)
- Assault: Available for vetted troops, breaks supression, increases speed and
reduces grenade-cooldown by 75%), but assaulting troops take additional damage. (2 points)
- Call-in Sturmtiger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmtiger)(1 time). Modified Tiger I armed
with a massive short-ranged Mortar which shreds buildings and enemy infantry. Each shot takes munitions. (4 points)
Hold the Line-Operations
(enables troops to retreat to the Officer like brits to the captain, adds life-regeneration to units and
gives defensive boni in own territory)
left side: Defensive-Operations
- Hold the Line!: Ability that increases units' rate of fire, increases armour and reduces supression. Only usable on your territory.(1point)
- Scorched Earth: disable strat-point until its repaired, enables grenadiers to lay mines, wire, sandbags and tanktraps. (2 points)
- Reinforcements: 2 Panzer-III's + grenadiers arrive on the battlefield, alternative: 1 Panther + grenadiers. (5 points)
Right side: Zeal
- Improved defenses: bunkers gain additional health, troops can reinforce at bunkers. (2 points)
- Zeal: adds 1 additional mg42 in mg42-troops, squads start as vet 1, troops fight better when loosing units. (2 points)
- call-in 2 Wespe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wespe) medium Artillery(hardcap 4). (2 points)
Tank-Operations
(enables officers to reveal parts of the map via binoculars and to call in Luftwaffe-Bombardments)
Left side: Logistics:
- fast deployment: increase Productionspeed for tanks by 200% for 60 seconds (costs munitions). (1 point)
- Improved-AT-munitions: enables PaK's and tanks to fire improved shells which penetrate more often. (2 points)
- call-in Munitionspanzer III (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munitionspanzer_III): decreases cooldown between shots for nearby tanks, Artillery and grenadiers.
Also able to lay mines and spawns Goliaths.(2 points)
Right Side: Blitzkrieg!
- Crew-Training: tanks start with vet 1, mg-gunners are automatically added to the tanks. (2 points)
- call-in Ferdinand Tank Hunter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elefant). (3 points).
- call-in Jagdtiger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdtiger) (1 time).(4 points)