Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => General Discussion => Topic started by: Blackbishop on December 27, 2011, 12:44:51 AM

Title: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on December 27, 2011, 12:44:51 AM
Hi guys,

I was thinking that one of the things we have not done something about is the ingame stats for each unit, that chart located below the unit portrait or critical, that represent the effectivity vs the type of unit.
(http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/732/732059/company-of-heroes-20060911032123480.jpg)
lol... don't ask where I got this one XD

No matter most of you think that they are not worth the time because are inaccurate, other people say it is needed and our faction has them messed up; the truth is that Relic added such stats ingame, and is our duty to make soviets and in the future the ostheer to reflect these stats correctly as well.

At the moment, some units have their correct data, others not, others after getting an upgrade gets an incorrect data, so I would like to ask your help to catch the units that needs to fix it. Also, feel free to suggest the input values you think it deserves.



Updated Units:

* Ingeneries & Sturmovies
* Commissar Squad
* Conscripts
* Strelky
* Guards
* Mortars
* Mechanics
* Tank Hunters
* Partisans
* ZiS atgs
* T70
* T90
* T-34/76
* T-34/85
* IS-2
* IS-3
* KV-1
* KV-2
* KV-85
* SU-85
* SU-76
* SU-122
* ISU-152
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Pac-Fish on December 27, 2011, 01:38:54 AM
Maybe CS should be changed. ATM IIRC it says 2 in the vs infantry slot. Maybe it should be 3

And since conscripts kinda suck, maybe we should lower it to 1 :P

And IIRC T-34 and T-34 with 85 mm upgrade have same stats. I think it should be changed to notify players they're tanks are that much better :P
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Tankbuster on December 27, 2011, 06:49:52 AM
The IS-3 stats have all ingame stats are 8, shouldn't it be 9?
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on December 27, 2011, 07:07:01 AM
IS-3 should be 9 vs all except for buildings.

Ok, changed UI stats for:
* Commissar Squad
* Conscripts
* T-34/85
* IS-3

Thanks guys :D.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Tankbuster on December 27, 2011, 07:11:52 AM
Yay, I helped
* Commissar Squad

Shouldn't it be command squad?
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on December 27, 2011, 07:20:25 AM
Meh, that's a nickname :P.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Rikard Blixt on December 27, 2011, 08:11:33 AM
Let's see, imo:

Command Squad: 3 (+2 with PPS 43) / 0 / 0 / 0
Ingenery: 1 / 0 / 0 / 0

Conscript: 1 (+1 with extra rifles) / 0 / 0 / 0
Strelky: 2 (+2 with extra weapons) / 0 / 0 / 0
Guards: 3 (+1 with shock) / 0 / 0 / 0

Sharpshooter: 1 (+8 with sniper kit) / 0 / 0 / 0
Mortar: Whatever the WH mortar has (+1 against building & infantry for heavy)
Tank Hunters: 1 / 3 (+3 with double PTRD) / 2 (+2 with double PTRD) / 1 (+1 with dobuel PTRD)
AT Gun: Whatever the US AT Gun has

T-70: 2 / 4 / 4 / 1  (or something like this?)
T-90: 5 / 1 / 0 / 0  (infantry value up/down?)
T-34/76: 4 / 4 / 4 / 3
T-34/85: 5 / 7 / 7 / 4
KV-1: 4 / 5 / 5 / 3
KV-85: 5 / 8 / 8 / 4
IS-2: Whatever Panther has +/- 1


feedback plax.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Dzierzan on December 27, 2011, 10:10:00 AM
Long time ago i made topic about this http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=6511.0 . But good to see that you're working on it, because that was annoying me since 1.0 version.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Cranialwizard on December 27, 2011, 02:41:18 PM
Let's see, imo:

Command Squad: 3 (+2 with PPS 43) / 0 / 0 / 0
Ingenery: 1 (+2 Sturmovie) / 0 / 0 / 0

Conscript: 1 (+1 with extra rifles) / 0 / 0 / 0
Strelky: 2 (+2 with extra weapons) / 0 / 0 / 0
Guards: 4 (+1 with shock) / 0 / 0 / 0

Sharpshooter: 1 (+8 with sniper kit) (+6 with Observer) / 0  / 0 / 0 (+6 with Observer)
Mortar: Whatever the WH mortar has (+2 against building & infantry for heavy)
Tank Hunters: 1 / 3 (+3 with double PTRD) / 2 (+2 with double PTRD) / 1
AT Gun: Whatever the US AT Gun has

T-70: 2 / 4 / 4 / 1  (or something like this?)
T-90: 5 / 3 / 1 / 3  (infantry value up/down?)
T-34/76: 4 / 4 / 4 / 3
T-34/85: 4 / 7 / 7 / 3
KV-1: 4 / 5 / 5 / 3
KV-85: 4 / 8 / 8 / 4
IS-2: Whatever Panther has +/- 1


feedback plax.

Edited to my accordance.

This crap doesn't even matter anyway if you know how to use units specifically.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Killar on December 27, 2011, 03:16:43 PM
The aim of the mod is to make it look like a unofficial relic addon. It does matter alot.

Can“t make suggestions now, have to look at corsix and current stats of other factions first.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Pac-Fish on December 27, 2011, 04:20:17 PM
Should the Ingenery stats be higher with Sturmiove? They're bpretty strong once you get the upgrade and flamers :P
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Tankbuster on December 27, 2011, 05:14:32 PM
Shouldn't the IS-2 be having AT damage as 7?
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: 777mais777 on December 27, 2011, 06:37:01 PM
Should the Ingenery stats be higher with Sturmiove? They're bpretty strong once you get the upgrade and flamers :P
+1 :D
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: neosdark on December 27, 2011, 07:45:40 PM
The Sharpshooter gains a + 2 to vehicle and +1 to tank when he gets the Marksman Rifle upgrade (becomes a real Sniper), I think that should be fixed too :P
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Dot.Shadow on December 27, 2011, 09:35:26 PM
I understand this subject is a big deal, but what I do not understand is what exactly all those numbers mean O_o

I never really understood the underlaying mechanics of CoH I guess.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Cranialwizard on December 27, 2011, 09:47:33 PM
I understand this subject is a big deal, but what I do not understand is what exactly all those numbers mean O_o

I never really understood the underlaying mechanics of CoH I guess.

The numbers have no fucking correlation with the actual game mechanics. They are there to look pretty and give noobs a general idea on how stuff matches up. I think we're wasting time thinking about it but w/e
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: neosdark on December 27, 2011, 10:03:48 PM
Lax buddy, take out your anger on a pillow. Noobs may be something that many of the higher players dislike but they must still be part of the gaming community. They need guidance too
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Cranialwizard on December 27, 2011, 10:55:16 PM
Lax buddy, take out your anger on a pillow. Noobs may be something that many of the higher players dislike but they must still be part of the gaming community. They need guidance too

The noobs are a good part of the community. I did not mean any disrespect or hatred towards them as they're learning the game. I just think that it's kind of pointless to be wasting our time adjusting numbers for show rather than balancing.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on December 28, 2011, 12:17:05 AM
@Cranialwizard
Could you stop overrecting?

I ask the help of everyone to get this right, due to being better than making private, the more people than can report this, the faster we finish this part. I don't really understand your attitude, so should we do with our time what you demand? If you don't consider this necessary, means that it shall not be done? and now this somehow delays balancing?

This should be done and I don't really think that we spent a lot of resources changing some numbers for the layout. As several comrades already stated, this must be done, and the sooner the better. No matter if this is "noob stuff" it has a place on Eastern Front. The other balancers know what they are doing, we are glad they are helping us with balance but that doesn't mean they should be testing 24/7.

Btw, I have fixed the entries for the aforementioned units. One note, for every slot weapon given to a unit sums up the values, e.g. Command Squad has 3/1/0/0 but when purchasing the PPS it gets 3+5/1/0/0 because every weapon has 1/0/0/0 (five times this is 5/0/0/0 ) so, we will need to create different weapons to get the proposed 3+2/1/0/0, add one weapon two times that has the 1/0/0/0 and three times one with zero values. Probably it is not worthy :)... unless you want this, it is very easy, but you can say will duplicate files.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Cranialwizard on December 28, 2011, 03:08:51 AM
@Cranialwizard
Could you stop overrecting?

I ask the help of everyone to get this right, due to being better than making private, the more people than can report this, the faster we finish this part. I don't really understand your attitude, so should we do with our time what you demand? If you don't consider this necessary, means that it shall not be done? and now this somehow delays balancing?

This should be done and I don't really think that we spent a lot of resources changing some numbers for the layout. As several comrades already stated, this must be done, and the sooner the better. No matter if this is "noob stuff" it has a place on Eastern Front. The other balancers know what they are doing, we are glad they are helping us with balance but that doesn't mean they should be testing 24/7.

Btw, I have fixed the entries for the aforementioned units. One note, for every slot weapon given to a unit sums up the values, e.g. Command Squad has 3/1/0/0 but when purchasing the PPS it gets 3+5/1/0/0 because every weapon has 1/0/0/0 (five times this is 5/0/0/0 ) so, we will need to create different weapons to get the proposed 3+2/1/0/0, add one weapon two times that has the 1/0/0/0 and three times one with zero values. Probably it is not worthy :)... unless you want this, it is very easy, but you can say will duplicate files.

You're right. I apologize for the reaction.

However not sure that adding slot weapons for 1/0/0/0 is very smart because of the large squad upgrades (like RBS. That adds 6 PPSHs at one point...sorta high anti-infantry values)
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on December 28, 2011, 04:50:22 AM
Volks have similar "stats" after getting MP40s.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Pac-Fish on December 28, 2011, 06:00:49 AM
Maybe give Strelky only +4 or +5 after they get PPSH? Giving them 2+6/0/0/0 seems a tad high. Thats higher than a Puma IIRC  :P. Maybe even as high as an Ostwind :-X

Also IIRC Strelky get 2+2/0/0/0 after they get DPSH lmgs (not sure if thats the correct name, you get the idea). Maybe it should be changed to +3 or +4. Unless they actually aren't that powerful. I wouldn't know  :P
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on December 28, 2011, 06:26:50 AM
rgr, for the next patch they will get +5 and changed dp28 to +4
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Tankbuster on December 28, 2011, 06:53:14 AM
Shouldn't  strelky have base infanty damage as 3? They have seven rifles initially which do good amounts of damage.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: neosdark on December 28, 2011, 06:54:34 AM
Ya but horrid health which knocks them down a peg.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Pac-Fish on December 28, 2011, 07:53:12 AM
They have 7 rifles but who says they are accurate? Or that they even do decent dmg? And their health kinda sucks like conscripts so yeah :P
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Dzierzan on December 28, 2011, 11:02:18 AM
What about Su-122? Maybe it should has same numbers as StuH 42 has?
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Pac-Fish on December 28, 2011, 01:33:32 PM
I thought the SU-122 dealt more dmg ???
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Killar on December 28, 2011, 01:46:23 PM
it does
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Pac-Fish on December 30, 2011, 03:13:56 AM
I have another suggestion. Since conscripts stats will not be 1/0/0/0, maybe they should be changed to 1+1/0/0/0 when penal battalion is purchased :P.

BTW what does rgr mean ???
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on December 30, 2011, 04:01:17 AM
Conscripts already have 1/0/0/0. But after getting the extra rifles they will get 1+N/0/0/0.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Pac-Fish on December 30, 2011, 04:24:19 AM
whats the N stand for ???
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on December 30, 2011, 04:31:20 AM
In math, N is the max amount of something; in this case N =Total of rifles adquired with "For the Motherland".
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Pac-Fish on December 30, 2011, 05:43:09 AM
1+4/0/0/0  ??? Since they gain 4 rifles and N is their max amount then this is correct yes? Seems a bit high dont you think?  :P
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on December 30, 2011, 05:52:23 AM
Indeed, it is a bit high.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Tankbuster on December 30, 2011, 06:45:26 AM
IMO it would be better with 1+2/0/0 whaddya think?
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on December 30, 2011, 07:12:02 AM
Yeah, I think that should work.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Pac-Fish on December 30, 2011, 08:00:40 AM
IMO thats still kinda high. Stelky rifles do more dmg then conscript rifles and they have 7 rifles, yet their stats are 2/0/0/0. Conscripts have weaker rifles and have 8 but they will have 1+2/0/0/0. It's kinda of like saying conscripts are stronger or at least better at killing infantry when they're probably not  :P
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Tankbuster on December 31, 2011, 08:20:43 AM
When you pay 50 muni for 4 rifles, it should seem that you are getting some bang for your buck.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on December 31, 2011, 08:25:16 AM
They aren't better than Strelky, so they can't get more than that.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Tankbuster on January 03, 2012, 06:01:49 AM
The SU marksman when upgraded to sniper shows a +2 damage for vehicles & a +3 damage for tanks.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on January 03, 2012, 06:13:51 AM
Yeah, already pointed out and fixed, thanks :D!



Updated units:

* Ingeneries & Sturmovies
* Commissar Squad
* Conscripts
* Strelky
* Guards
* Mortars
* Mechanics
* Tank Hunters
* ZiS atgs
* T70
* T90
* T-34/76
* T-34/85
* IS-2
* IS-3
* KV-1
* KV-85
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Tankbuster on January 03, 2012, 07:40:51 AM
Slightly OT but is the soviet AI not being able to move dug in AT guns fixed?
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Walentin 'Walki' L. on January 03, 2012, 02:12:03 PM
yes
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: predator64 on January 06, 2012, 11:22:10 AM
Is the SU-85 discussed already?If not I can give some help here...

I think SU-85 could use some identical stats from either StuG IV or M10 Tank Destroyer with some variations  :P
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Tankbuster on January 06, 2012, 01:20:06 PM
Could you change the marksman to show 7 dmg VS. infantry? IMO 9 is a bit high
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: GodlikeDennis on January 06, 2012, 01:34:39 PM
All Snipers have 9 don't they?
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Dzierzan on January 06, 2012, 03:05:56 PM
Yes, they do.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Sommarkatze on January 06, 2012, 03:42:37 PM
If I remember right the partisans have 7 against infantry. Seems a little to good for an group of armed civilians if you ask me ;P
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Dzierzan on January 06, 2012, 03:56:22 PM
Well they have 2 ppsh, 1 mp40, 1 mosin and 1 kar98 if i good remember. Maybe 6 vs infantry would good as they don't wield 5 submachines.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Tankbuster on January 06, 2012, 04:11:49 PM
I meant the unupgraded marksman that comes outta the barracks
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Sommarkatze on January 06, 2012, 05:06:44 PM
IMO the partisans should have 3 at max against infantry. Now they are basically commandos but they enter via houses and not gliders.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on January 06, 2012, 05:56:42 PM
I meant the unupgraded marksman that comes outta the barracks
Isn't marksman that unit from ostheer :P... that unit was already addressed.

Changed partisans(3/0/0/6), SU-85(2/5/7/3), SU-122(7/5/2/5), ISU-152(9/4/9/5) and KV-2(9/4/2/9).
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Dzierzan on January 06, 2012, 06:20:26 PM
Quote
partisans(3/0/0/6)

Nah... why 3? I think that are more better vs infantry. I think that it should be 5 or 6.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Sommarkatze on January 06, 2012, 08:28:37 PM
Dzierzan is right in some way. In the current version of EF Partisans are 5-6 versus infantry. However IMO thats waaay to good for partisans and in the next patch they are going to be more like a 3 . Right? XD
(Redguard would rage right now? Did I get the joke right? XD)
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on January 06, 2012, 08:49:24 PM
They have 7 vs Infantry IIRC, that's too much :). I have added 5 vs Infantry ;D.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Sommarkatze on January 06, 2012, 09:53:43 PM
Thats like volks with mp40s!.. Iam happy with that ^^
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Pac-Fish on January 06, 2012, 10:59:36 PM
What Tankbuster is talking about it the SU Sniper B4 purchasing marksmanship rifle for 200 mp. He wants it to be something like 7/0/0/0 or maybe 5/0/0/0. B/C although it deals high amounts of dmg, its one guy :P
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Tankbuster on January 07, 2012, 08:22:12 AM
What Tankbuster is talking about it the SU Sniper B4 purchasing marksmanship rifle for 200 mp. He wants it to be something like 7/0/0/0 or maybe 5/0/0/0. B/C although it deals high amounts of dmg, its one guy :P
Nailed it
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: predator64 on January 07, 2012, 08:34:31 AM
What Tankbuster is talking about it the SU Sniper B4 purchasing marksmanship rifle for 200 mp. He wants it to be something like 7/0/0/0 or maybe 5/0/0/0. B/C although it deals high amounts of dmg, its one guy :P

Sorry to interrupt,I think it could use 2/0/0/0 because its ridiculous small squad although it deals high damage :P

Naval Infantry hasn't been discussed yet right?
Could use 3/0/0/0 because of the SVT it gets.
+1 or +2(whichever you like) for each DP-28 it gets.Maximum is 2+4/0/0/0
+2 for every Anti Tank Rifle it gets.

Sorry for off-topic,what is the armor type of Naval Infantry?infantry_elite?
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on January 07, 2012, 08:36:38 AM
Yes, it is elite.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Otto Halfhand on April 27, 2012, 06:18:36 AM
@ Black Bishop You better talk to the AI Devteam before you change anymore stats on the Battle Screen GUI. It may be causing AI bugs. ???
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on April 27, 2012, 06:24:33 AM
Nope, these stats don't affect AI. The AI bases on other section to decide if it uses an unit or not against something.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Dreamerbg on October 15, 2012, 07:19:04 PM
Why consripts's stats against infantry are 1+4 ?  Isnt this too much? I mean +4 from 3 extra rifles  ::) ???
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S. on October 15, 2012, 07:34:59 PM
Why consripts's stats against infantry are 1+4 ?  Isnt this too much? I mean +4 from 3 extra rifles  ::) ???
afaik the weapon stats on the unit themselves are set up pretty random anyways. Something to be redone for 2.000 Ostheer release I guess...
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Otto Halfhand on October 15, 2012, 07:42:38 PM
The Stats shown on gui are supposed to represent an anticlass value. I am not sure what category the +4 is directed at but it is probably either Ainf or Abuildings and is a reflection of the molotovs value against those classes of targets. Typical values between 0 - 10 are not uncommon and don't signify when multiple squads are engaged. Look for references to munitions units in the Data\ai files for definitions and calulations.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Pac-Fish on October 15, 2012, 10:03:41 PM
It was +4 because they gained 4 rifles and every rifles granted +1 (which I didn't agree with). Just like volks get +5 cause they get 5 MP40s
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S. on October 15, 2012, 11:15:22 PM
It was +4 because they gained 4 rifles and every rifles granted +1 (which I didn't agree with). Just like volks get +5 cause they get 5 MP40s
It doesnt make sense anyways...
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Blackbishop on October 15, 2012, 11:20:02 PM
This is already fixed in our internal version AFAIK.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: krupp steel on January 18, 2013, 01:34:33 AM
Here is a complete redesign of the Conscript stats vs infantry:

So here we have conscripts that have a 1+4 (5) for infantry, which I can't stand.  So why not take away the +1 from the rifles, and just give them 2 vs infantry?  So here is the what I had in mine:

*Take away the +1 from each rifle slot
*Change the squads stats from 1 vs infantry to 2

So that pretty much means it has a 2 for infantry, something I am happy about (though if there were such thing I would give them a 1.5 vs infantry :P) , but what about the upgrade that gives them more rifles?  The solution would simply be by adding the same regular rifles that DO NOT have the +1.  So your probably asking me "well it doesn't make sense for a squad not to have no improvement on its vs infantry stats" but this is resolved by this way:

After purchasing the Conscript Rifle Upgrade:

*Add 2 Conscript Rifles slots that DO NOT add +1
*Add 1 Conscript Rifle slot that gives a +1

So in all, it has a 2 for infantry at the start, and after their extra rifle upgrade they get 2+1 which in all gives them 3 for infantry.  The +1 once again, would come from a different slot (though same weapon as all the others) but in that upgrade you have it give a +1 , but only give the squad ONE of this slot.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Todstyak on March 08, 2013, 04:37:02 AM
SAS Raiders start out with 7 base against infantry even though they only have 3 Enfields, I think this is a mistake because when upgraded with Thompsons they end up 7+3 wich is RIDICULOUS unless they're just that good. I think you ment the outcome to be 7 as that is what many squads with automatic weapons end up to so they should start at 4 if my math is correct.
Title: Re: Unit stats ingame
Post by: Miles Dixon on July 04, 2013, 06:11:54 AM
I see that the stats for the light recon vehicle for the British is all 0. Is it going to be fixed? Like to 1/5/5/3, I think?