Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Balance Discussion => Topic started by: bopokippo on February 13, 2012, 04:44:53 AM
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While they can be useful because of their advanced repair, I'm just not seeing a good reason to justify their cost which, while cheap, may not necessarily be worth it. Unless in some dire situation, I would always go for 2 extra ingenery which can repair almost as fast as a mechanic team and offers considerably more firepower than 4 pistols which are practically useless in combat. Luftwaffe ground forces at least have 5 rifles and the ability to construct unique flakvierlings right off the bat but I just am not seeing the position of mechanics in a practical situation. Maybe give them Mosins or maybe give them the sapper's "Expert Engineers" upgrade to boot, letting them overrepair things?
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i would still get them, even if they arent as good. they look beast.
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They can speed up tank stuff :P. Although thats not too helpful is it? I think the mechanics lack something special but unfortunately I don't think they are being changed :(.
And IMO they dont look that great. They are mechanics after all :P.
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whaaat? those tan berets?? the pistols??
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Mechanics are as good as they are. They aren't supposed to fight, but repair or speed up building tanks. That's enough. 2 squads of Ingenery cost 8 pop cap, while mechanics only 4 popcap. They also are very good in repairing tanks fast.
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Building field defenses is also a plus
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They repair almost ridicalous fast?
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is their repair rate equivalent to an advanced repair Panzer Grenadier?
And I agree with the population cap, but as of now I would compare them to vCoH Wehr officers. And, while maybe late-game the population cap could matter, they are not really needed early game as two ingenery which are only IIRC 40 more manpower than one mechanic squad can split up and build field defenses twice as fast. I know they shouldn't fight, but I feel that 260 manpower tied up in a non-fighting/repair/increased production/field defense constructor leaves something to be desired with its impact on the battlefield. I can't see situations where mechanics end up turning the tide of a battle...
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I can't see situations where mechanics end up turning the tide of a battle...
If you have no more ingynery as they are useless to build unless you have Sturmovie, need a Mine detector, or you need to build a firebase. Mechanics help with a mobile army and help immensly with armor rushes like T3 T70-T90.
They're like Luftwaffe Ground Infantry. They are utter shit in combat (unless you grab a Shreck or LMG) but their practicality in other fields like advanced repair and building emplacements and speeding production in the tank hall can greatly benefit an armored-warfare player.
As for me, I know personally that I have decent infantry micro until mid-late game, where I tend to have to blob as when I play with a mousepad I can find it difficult to manage and maintain large armies of multipurpose infantry. However I have stellar tank micro (Or at least try to) because those are more valuable investments, and mechanics help my mobile army quite enough.
Also, it can be noted getting that T-34, KV, or IS-2 with longer build times out on the field faster can tip the battle.
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+the upgrades needed to get the tanks in the first place can be sped up which imo is a great help.
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They're extremely useful, whenever I play breakthrough I get one of these, they repair soviet tanks at a much faster rate than ingeneries. Which makes my enemies cry because the ISU 152 gets to full health much faster than his King Tiger :]
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I think they're worthless. Ingenery do just fine. The mechanics can't even build any new stuff, unlike the Luftwaffe. Speeding up tank production is meh. I don't think I've ever really needed the increased production.
I think they should be taken out in favor of something else. I never use them, and when I used to, they never changed anything. Why not just replace them with increased vehicle production and advanced repair? Doesn't have to be the first thing you get either. I mean, that's all people use them for anyway. Why make people spend manpower and have them be killable when you can just make it passive and maybe make it cost 1 command point more? Something like...
"Advanced Ingenery"
"Decrease the production time of all vehicles by x%, and enables Ingenery to repair vehicles at an increased rate."
Or they could just do something like the Americans have with Field Repairs (or whatever it was called) where you spend munitions to repair your tanks. Mechanics are slow, frail, and inconvenient.
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^This. This is 100% true.
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Agreed, mechanics are worthless. I would love to see lend-lease return maybe a Valentine, Churchill, Stuart, or white scout car call in.
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Giving a new tank call-in to a doctrine already filled with tank call-ins is not what I'd call good idea ;).
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and even if that was a good idea what kind of tank would be filled in given that all the practical tanks have been implemented already? Mechanics are not meant to fight since the pistols are more for fending off kettenkrads rather than actually contributing to the fight. Although i would not mind if they showed up in a halftrack or something so that they can get to where i need them to be alot sooner than they do when they hoof it.
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Yes, I had the same idea in the past :). Don't suggested it before because we don't have any soviet vehicle that can be used as transport.
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Mechanics are not meant to fight since the pistols are more for fending off kettenkrads
LOL even this statement is too much IMO :P. Their pistols are complete crap. ;D
Mechanics are now 260 MP so they are comparable to LGF. LGF gets to build things like Flak 38s and 88s while Mechanics get to speed up tanks. I think its a good trade off. Its not the best trade off but looking at the doctrine as a whole, its okay considering how all the other abilities are like ridiculously powerful :P. And you must remember not all abilities are amazing ::). And Mechanics can pick up weapons :P.
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ive been watching this thread, and imo, mechanics do not need a buff or any other abilities/reward tanks. breakthrough is already a very strong doc, so if you dont like mechanics, dont get them. players shouldn't be doctrine reliant as is.
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Mechanics are useful in utility but Breakthrough lacks a munitions sink other than the existing two abilities and cage armor.
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Mechanics are useful in utility but Breakthrough lacks a munitions sink other than the existing two abilities
Whats the other ability? Inspiring Speech? How much muni does that cost ???
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Inspiring Speech-50
Cage Armor-75
IL2-200
I wouldn't call IL2 strike a munitions sink because it is a late game ability that cost quite a bit of munitions that can't be used often.
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IL-2 is a beast though. 1 use, 1 own.
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Not necessarily, if you are using Wehr, you can get Ostwind and blow them out of the sky. As amis use Quad 50 to rip the Sturmoviks apart.
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hmm. fair enough. but then it will just land on the ostwind. still owned.
why would quad 50 friendly fire?
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hmm. fair enough. but then it will just land on the ostwind. still owned.
You realize how unlikely this is :P. Not only is COH AA inaccurate but the plane rarley hits anywhere you want. If this ever happens let me know :P
why would quad 50 friendly fire?
He is referring to the US SU matchup which has no standing here :P
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I agree with Cat Fishy the Breakthrough Doctrine is fine as is.
Should a different call-in be required for this Doctrine I suggest a BA-64 Armored Car.
Use mechanics to build base defenses, outposts, and Staging areas-Zis Good Humor Truck. In moving between these areas build defences to channalize enemy attacks.
@ Cranial: If you are looking for muni-sink from a Balancer/developer POV play around with the recharge/cooldown times to increase use of the global sprint ability. Question: Does the Rate of Fire increase when sprint is energized? I think it reduces suppression too?
BTW I saw a Stormovik attack on the Kursk map once. 2 wirbelwinds were adjacent to Sov Base. I am not sure what sector was targeted. I stopped to watch. Stormovics crashed all around. The Sov base was destroyed by the falling planes. The Wirbelwinds sustained little or no damage. It was glorious.
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BTW I saw a Stormovik attack on the Kursk map once. 2 wirbelwinds were adjacent to Sov Base. I am not sure what sector was targeted. I stopped to watch. Stormovics crashed all around. The Sov base was destroyed by the falling planes. The Wirbelwinds sustained little or no damage. It was glorious.
see? this stuff does happen. :D i was joking anyway though.
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Does anyone know How much a mechanic/Wehr Officer speeds production? It will probably be in the form of a number, that is less than 1.
Does vet change this number?
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its a 25% increase IIRC. And I dont think vet helps :(
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Yes and the Wher officer has great abilites, in addition to the production buff.
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The Officer ability gives +100% more speed for research and unit training. Everything will be done twice as fast.
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I think they're worthless. Ingenery do just fine. The mechanics can't even build any new stuff, unlike the Luftwaffe. Speeding up tank production is meh. I don't think I've ever really needed the increased production.
I think they should be taken out in favor of something else. I never use them, and when I used to, they never changed anything. Why not just replace them with increased vehicle production and advanced repair? Doesn't have to be the first thing you get either. I mean, that's all people use them for anyway. Why make people spend manpower and have them be killable when you can just make it passive and maybe make it cost 1 command point more? Something like...
"Advanced Ingenery"
"Decrease the production time of all vehicles by x%, and enables Ingenery to repair vehicles at an increased rate."
Or they could just do something like the Americans have with Field Repairs (or whatever it was called) where you spend munitions to repair your tanks. Mechanics are slow, frail, and inconvenient.
Mechanics are useful in utility but Breakthrough lacks a munitions sink other than the existing two abilities and cage armor.
I don't have a problem with Mechanics. If Mechanics must be replaced I suggest an anti-tank mine. (Presuming the Sovs had them). Kill two birds with one stone. (Sounds like something Sun Tzu would say). :P
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*Cough* Men against tanks *Cough*
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*Cough* Men against tanks *Cough*
qft
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qft means what?
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QFT = Quoted For Truth
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If mechanics get a new ability it should be support, i.e. Over-repair, Stat Buff. They are meant to support assaults not shore up a defense.
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If mechanics get a new ability it should be support, i.e. Over-repair, Stat Buff. They are meant to support assaults not shore up a defense.
I don't understand your position. Mechanics are support troops, a new support ability is fine; although Over-repair is not attractive to me. Yes Mechanics repair tanks but they are not frontline troops, if they were they would be armed with submachineguns or rifles. They already have defencing abilities; but minelaying is not one of them. I am happy with Mechanics as is, although rifles would be nice to deal with base raids and infiltrators.
I would be less than honest if I didn't tell you I was suggesting anti-tank mines as a replacement for Mechanic Squads. But now that you mention it I like the Idea of giving Mechanics an anti-tank mine.
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With men against tanks TH have that ability already.
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Oops! :P
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thats why i quoted tankbuster, for truth ;)
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Granted I didn't think about "men against tanks". My bad, but why not allow Mechanics an AT mine . NI get molotovs, but only after an upgrade. If Molotovs are not OP for NI, AT mines would make Mechanics OP?
We are talking about two things here. Players kvetching about how pathetic Mechanics are. Balancers are Kvetching about having a munitions sink.
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i dont think anyone said AT mines for mechanics were OP, just that they were unneeded because men against tanks.
IL-2 seems muni sink enough for me.
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I am with you brother. As I indicated before I don't have a problem with mechanics. Sure they could have more utility, but The defencing abilities meet my needs pretty well. It would be useful if they could cut wire though.
I mostly save my munis for sturmovic runs too. Perhaps we are missing a bet here. When engaged in a compstomp vs Sovs the AI seems to activate "inspiring Speech" wether attacking or withdrawing. I don't understand all the mechanics of using this ability. I believe it to be the "Fire up" ability on a global scale. the increased speed and reduced suppression are helpful especially since all my infantry gets the advantage for all more munis than focus fire. Since defensive vet increases the speed and effectiveness of PG/ST44s when making attack moves. It may work the same way with Stormovie, CS and or Tank Rider style Guards. It doesn't improve Strelky/SMGs. I'm uncertain that Stormovie is improved with use of the inspired speech. any comments?
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As far as I'm aware, the only effect of inspired speech is getting +1 speed (3 becomes 4 in most cases) and you can't move and fire. There should be no suppression resistance or any other effect.
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Thanks Dennis.
Hey I don't think people know how to use the new boards in the S&T section. People are viewing and responding to my posts. But no-one else has posted on any of the Boards. I know Sunday, Monday I guess for you; is the busiest day of the week, if there is no action at all you'all might review the concept. I know JoeLong has created a new PE S&T thread but He's a new member and can't be expected to grasp the all the doo-dads right away.
Otto
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As I've said before Mechanics are pretty useless, but believe it or not they're more effective in combat than ingineery... of course I'd rather have two squads of ingineery than the one squad of Mechanics for about the same price... unless you're playing in a pop capped game and don't have the population for ingineery.
They used to be good when they could build defenses and stuff, you could call them in at the start of the game to block bridges and build MG nests.
Increased production was always worthless, 3 squads of mechanics wont speed up tank production as much as a Wehrmacht officer... so you could spend the 780 manpower on three squads of mechanics or just 200 manpower and 50 fuel on a second tank hall which would effectively double your production speed.
...just another overzealously nerfed soviet unit really.
Personally I'd say get rid of the increased tank production and give them an actually useful ability like repairing tank wrecks as a bergetiger does, then they'd be a good unit.
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As I've said before Mechanics are pretty useless, but believe it or not they're more effective in combat than ingineery... of course I'd rather have two squads of ingineery than the one squad of Mechanics for about the same price... unless you're playing in a pop capped game and don't have the population for ingineery.
They used to be good when they could build defenses and stuff, you could call them in at the start of the game to block bridges and build MG nests.
On which map is that useful?
Increased production was always worthless, 3 squads of mechanics wont speed up tank production as much as a Wehrmacht officer... so you could spend the 780 manpower on three squads of mechanics or just 200 manpower and 50 fuel on a second tank hall which would effectively double your production speed.
...just another overzealously nerfed soviet unit really.
several squads of mechanics will not multiplice production. One mechanics squad improves production speed as same as a officer. I guess you lost several games using your taktik.
Personally I'd say get rid of the increased tank production and give them an actually useful ability like repairing tank wrecks as a bergetiger does, then they'd be a good unit.
yeah and expremely OP
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They used to be good when they could build defenses and stuff, you could call them in at the start of the game to block bridges and build MG nests.
On which map is that useful?
id say the man has a point.
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As killar says one mechanics squad will reduce production time 50%. only useful if you have the resources available to take advantage of it though.
On which map is that useful?
Kalach
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On which map is that useful?
Kalach
No. In a majority of maps, there are couple to no bridges at all. MG nest are rarely built simply due to reliability factors when you get into more experienced gameplay.
Blowing bridges in Kalach gets you no where because the other routes are wide open, and blocking the open paths doesn't do anything but lead your enemy to another path so this whole issue seems pointless.
They used to be good when they could build defenses and stuff, you could call them in at the start of the game to block bridges and build MG nests.
In what universe? "Start of the game?" "Bridges?" Sounds like Annihilate, No Pop Cap, High Resources, on Lyon, Vire River, the Scheldt, or some other map of that type. I'm starting to take your suggestions even less seriously as I get the impression you're looking for bountiful Soviet buffs to increase your chances at winning against computer players on Vire River... ???
Increased production was always worthless, 3 squads of mechanics wont speed up tank production as much as a Wehrmacht officer... so you could spend the 780 manpower on three squads of mechanics or just 200 manpower and 50 fuel on a second tank hall which would effectively double your production speed.
...just another overzealously nerfed soviet unit really.
several squads of mechanics will not multiplice production. One mechanics squad improves production speed as same as a officer. I guess you lost several games using your taktik.
Personally I'd say get rid of the increased tank production and give them an actually useful ability like repairing tank wrecks as a bergetiger does, then they'd be a good unit.
yeah and expremely OP
This.
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I think its a matter of preference. I'll just leave it at that :P
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@ cranial,
No. In a majority of maps, there are couple to no bridges at all. MG nest are rarely built simply due to reliability factors when you get into more experienced gameplay.
Blowing bridges in Kalach gets you no where because the other routes are wide open, and blocking the open paths doesn't do anything but lead your enemy to another path so this whole issue seems pointless.
The majority of maps do not have 3 and a half bridges, you are correct. On Kalach the bridges if interdicted will secure a tidy resource base. The bridges need not be blown to deny the enemy this Third of the map. a string of wire early on followed by tank traps later (with a little more wire work) will deny early infantry penetration and later vehicular incursions, At least till crush is available. In the Case of Kalach such defencing measures should lead the enemy down the bridge crossing of least resistance into a Main Line of Defence or a nasty ambush. Designating an engineer to watch the back door and cut wire to open up AI controlled retreat paths can yield even larger benefits. Even in the event that a player sends his own engineers to clear the path. One on one the engineer working at the wire gets eaten.
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You know that you give away your victory if you block flanking possibilitys playing as allies? Axis players will thank you if you run straight into their mg´s.
Although having 2 or 3 bridge maps where it might be benefitial is not a reason to change the mechanics.
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No its not a reason to change mechanics. Defencing is available to several squad types.
My 107mm mortar batteries will handle the Axis MGs. When I'm ready the wire will then come down and Tank Traps allow one way traffic towards the Axis lines.
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You know that you give away your victory if you block flanking possibilitys playing as allies? Axis players will thank you if you run straight into their mg´s.
Although having 2 or 3 bridge maps where it might be benefitial is not a reason to change the mechanics.
If your enemy is AI it will actually make the game much much easier...
Though I only do that when I am bored because seeing the AI make blob that will be easily decimated by my MGs and Arties is actually fun, make you feel almighty... :P
But of course what you are saying is true, when against human...
Unless robotnik or jojo create a much more advance AI that able to counter this... ;D
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Why not playing a 1vs1 vs. human players if you seek a challenge?
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No its not a reason to change mechanics. Defencing is available to several squad types.
My 107mm mortar batteries will handle the Axis MGs. When I'm ready the wire will then come down and Tank Traps allow one way traffic towards the Axis lines.
Wher mortar will kill you with it's farther range. And if they don't the snipers will. Or the Panther :P. Of course there are counter to what the AI gets but they can always counter back. It works both ways.
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Indeed Cat it works both ways. You can't remain static. I think you are mistaken about the mortar range though. IIRC the 107mm mortar outranges axis counterparts. It may outrange nebels -not sure about that. The damage is excellent. Ground Attack works better then Barrage unless you are tackling a blob. I will assert that Ground Attack grants more shots than Barrage over the course of the recharge cycle. Barrage gives 4 shots? IDK how many shots you get in the same period. -no replay. :) BTW Thankyou.
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uhh, just clearing things up, if you guys are talking about wher mortrar, it has increased damage, accuracy, nad fire rate when using barrage. soviet idk.
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Im pretty sure Axis mortars will always outrange Allied mortars
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uhh, just clearing things up, if you guys are talking about wher mortrar, it has increased damage, accuracy, nad fire rate when using barrage. soviet idk.
The 107mm barrage is pretty devastating in terms of damage. It does scatter though, which makes it good against blobs. Do you know about the scatter effects of the Wher 81mm? Number of rounds per barrage?
When speaking of ground attack for 107mm Iset the target spot on say a VP and let it auto fire. That seems to foil 3 or 4 out of five attempts of the AI to take it. If you just let the sov mortars idle they will autofire but ususally use barrage fire to do so. That means when I want a quick barrage the mortar is frequently in a state of cooldown. Arrrgh!
I'm not sure what you mean by NAD fire rate?
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Its always advised that you use barrage. However the drawbacks of barrage is the target may move, if you order your mortar to barrage a spot outside of its max fire range it'll move, and it won't target anything else until you cancel the barrage order or it finishes.
It's a typo Otto :P. He meant and but put nad.
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Corsix indicates that the max range for mortars in general is 75. Wher 81mm max is 82 Sov. 107mm is 90. Some CT upgrades modify these values but mainly for CW. Nebels have a humongus range.
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It's a typo Otto :P. He meant and but put nad.
QFshame. :-[
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I don't think Humongous is a number
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500 -9999
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M1938 107mm Mortar:
Max/Min range: 90/15.
Damage: 45
Damage Modifiers: N/A.
Gr34 81mm Mortar:
Max/Min range: 85/15.
Damage: 36.
Damage modifiers: N/A.
*The 107 had 2x damage modifiers in previous patches--afaik a carry over from being copied from the M2 60mm Mortar. The M2 actually deals more damage when it hits, because it has a 2x damage modifier against all infantry target types. 20 damage becomes 40, and the increased fire rate means that if you barrage an Axis mortar before you he knows you're there, the higher RoF will kill his mortar before it can counter mortar you or move.
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In that case you are correct Otto. My bad :P
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In that case you are correct Otto. My bad :P
just covering your back fish, the soviet 83mm mortar only out ranges the wher mortar AFTER it is given the 107mm upgrade bought at the soviet Armory. therefore, as a base, the wher mortar has superior range. ;)
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Thanks volskinator. always looking for more mortar data.
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On which map is that useful?
You're so right... no one would ever build an MG nest, that's such a fail tactic and is completely useless on every map.
Lol, people would actually build MG nests...? Why do those even exist when nobody uses them?
...of course they have a long range, cover a wide area and are the only Heavy Machine Guns the soviets can build. But what do I know?
several squads of mechanics will not multiplice production. One mechanics squad improves production speed as same as a officer. I guess you lost several games using your taktik.
Yeah... that explains why they don't improve production the same as a wehrmacht officer and why I've never lost a game due to that 'taktik'... probably because I'm not a retard that uses mechanics for faster tank production.
yeah and expremely OP
Aww poor baby... you butthurt about Bergetigers too? Oh teh noes someone is repairing the damaged vehicles exactly like how a mechanic would in real life, how will I's evers recover from dis massively OP gameplay?
...I'll make sure only dose Panzer Elite guys I keep fighting against have this ability! Yes! Dat will solvers my problems!
I am 12 and what does mortars have to do with mechanics?
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Mechanics will not ever be able to resurrect vehicles again. It is A) a PE specific feature and B) extremely OP. Berges are OP.
Trolling is unnecessary and just makes you look like a tool.
Mechanics are under review by the balance team but they won't be getting sparkly new abilities like rebuilding wrecks and such.
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@Yhcrana:
The MG nest is only so reliable. Its only good to stall an opponent (like it covers a VP and your enemy has like 50 VP left) or to cover a choke point which is generally only on bridge maps which don't really fall into balance (not to say that other maps dont have choke points). SU gameplay doesn't rely on MGs like Wher and US do. PE does fine without it and so can Brits. IMO it was put in there so that people wouldn't be sad about the lack of a suppression unit.
He said it increases speed the same as a Wher officer. Im not sure why you are upset about it still. Its a 25%-50% increase (not sure which number is correct) which can make a big difference. And unlike Wher which house like 4 random units in a building, the Tank Hall houses 6 tank units. And please don't make fun of the way Killar spells words. That's just not nice :(. He can spell pretty well IMO.
Balance takes Priority over Real Life. PE generally consist of a bunch of weak vehicles. SU on the other hand can build an IS-2 or a bunch of T-34s which beats a Panther. PE can call Panthers in but they require a massive amount of teching.
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But what do I know?
Nothing.
Stop trolling and get out.
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But what do I know?
Nothing.
Stop trolling and get out.
+ infinity
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But what do I know?
Nothing.
Stop trolling and get out.
*Giggle
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But what do I know?
Well if you want to change something you have to say it in a more constructive way. If you just want to annoy people you act like you do now. Normally such a behaviour gets rewarded with a forum ban :)
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I think mechanics would have done better as an outpost addon that works like a repair bunker, good for easing micro load for a little manpower
because atm it seems much more sensible to get some sturmovie ingeneries (esp with double flamers if u play urban doc) that not only repair your tank but also help fight against infantry.
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Yeah but that involves alot of teching and resources. Not to say 300 mp is nothing but with stum ingy + dual flames its 400 mp, 25 fuel, and 150 muni IIRC(if you add cost of teching). Also you should keep in mind the popcap and resource drain. AKAIK its less with Mechanics.
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Yeah but that involves alot of teching and resources. Not to say 300 mp is nothing but with stum ingy + dual flames its 400 mp, 25 fuel, and 150 muni IIRC(if you add cost of teching). Also you should keep in mind the popcap and resource drain. AKAIK its less with Mechanics.
That extra manpower/fuel is well warranted if you consider in that scenario you would use sturmovies as your core infantry.
Its like a storm trooper + flamerthrower + mechanic squad in one + tank traps
e.g
early game ingenery only
mid game upgrade ingenery to sturmovie instead of strelky - cost is basically the same in terms of teching
if urban: double flamer upgrade - turns it into a 4 man rape mob
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Yeah but one doesnt go for urban JUST for dual flamers. And you realize blobbing sturms is a bad idea since they have negatve zeal (everyone does it but its still bad ::)). Besides BT has alot better stuff so to make Mechs better would just be overkill.
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Mechanics have a better repair rate and increase Tank Hall Production speeds by 50%.
That's all I'm going to say.
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Yeah but one doesnt go for urban JUST for dual flamers. And you realize blobbing sturms is a bad idea since they have negatve zeal (everyone does it but its still bad ::)). Besides BT has alot better stuff so to make Mechs better would just be overkill.
yeah there's downside of every combination of tactics
i definitely agree BT has a lot going for it, which is why I thought it would be nice if mechs instead of a call in squad might be just an addon for outposts that auto repairs your vehicles nearby. That ways theres more incentive in terms of convenience, but not enough boost to overpower anything
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A repair bunk for SU? IDK......:P. I'll leave this to the rest of EF.
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Late to the party, but what about a 'lock down' ability where they 'set up' in a specified area and act like a repair bunker, fixing any tanks near them. Unlike a repair bunker, elimination is as simple as killing squad members. On the upside they automatically fix any damaged vehicle in the area and unlike most repair units, they do not have an incoming accuracy modifier while repairing.
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I like the elimination of the 3x damage while repairing. Why should I pay 300 mp for one mechanic when I Can get two ing Squads for the same price. even if they cannot repair as fast.
The production bonus is nice but obtaining fuel to make the production time is seldom posible.
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I like the elimination of the 3x damage while repairing. Why should I pay 300 mp for one mechanic when I Can get two ing Squads for the same price. even if they cannot repair as fast.
This has been argued so much on EF :P. I guess there will be no middle ground. Just a search function :D
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I hope this is the right thread.
IS-3 the historical balance Problems
Dont worry is not going to be a whine post about a postwar tank ;)
The advantages of the Is3 is his brutal frontal armor in combination with this speed, so it outclasses the ISU AND every wehrmachttank.
On town maps, for example, you just cant relay on paks and here strats the problem.
The speed of IS3 makes it nearly impossibel to get on the back of it.
This wouldnt be a problem if the sidearmor would be sidearmor, but in COH sidearomor is 50% chance for frontarmor and a 50%chance for backarmor, if I am rgth, am I?
So there are two things the shell be changed -> slow the tower turning ratio down, just a littel bit -> if it is a littel bit slower, a flanking tank/squads or whatever wouldnt be killed so fast and decrease its sidearmor, dont know if its possible, but my idea would be; increase the backarmor and make sidearmor 100% backarmor
This changes wouldnt effect it so much against PE
Or just give me a
(http://www.worldoftanks-wiki.com/_/rsrc/1280994980929/tanks/german-medium-tanks/panther.jpg?height=350&width=400)
Just kidding ;D
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wrong thread :P
After your game against Dennis i checked the IS3 stats. Pak and schrecks penetration against IS3 rear armour needs to be normalized to IS2 rear armour niveau. Your pak mostly bounced.
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I am glad to hear that, but i think its Spacesidearmor is to strong
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Does the H38 cannon upgrade have the same penetration against IS# as it does against pershing?
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I believe the Hotchkiss upgrade penetrates everything but considering how little dmg it does, I dont think it matters.
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Maybe a little buff like allowing the use of Tank Destroyer AP against the Soviets is in order. BtW I had a TH take out a king tiger tother day. 57 exp at one shot.
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APCR doesnt effect Hotchkiss nor dos it effect Panzer IV. They are meant to be light AT/AI(anti infantry) depending on how u use it. Well Hotchkiss has arty so there's that.
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Shark correct me if I'm wrong but then H35 cannon upgrade converts the French Letter opener from an area effects AI weapon to a penetration effect AT weapon. In which case there is no reason why AP couldn't be applied.
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Even though this is the wrong thread:
You are reffering to the APCR ability in the TD doctrine right? That only applies to specific vehicles and even if it did apply to the Hotchkiss I dont see why it would need it. The long barrel upgrade already allows it to penetrate everything so giving it further penetration is pointless. Plus its not like APCR gives it a dmg increase AFAIK. I could be wrong about that one.
And plus I dont think (or at least consider) the Hotchkiss is an area of eff weapon anyways. It kinda meh when it comes to killing infantry. Not like the PIV which has shells that kinda explode