Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Other discussions (Read-Only) => Off Topic => Topic started by: Tehcumseh on April 06, 2012, 03:09:15 AM
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Hey i have a question for people. This is more of a morale question. Does it make me a bad person for like the Nazi Army from a military standpoint. I don't like the fact that killed millions and what they did was horrible and wrong. But i like the Nazi Army(tactics, training, uniforms) So i was wondering if it was morale wrong?
(sorry for making topics i just like seeing peoples opinions and i also like talking to others)
-Into The Frey
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this is kinda a Dr Phil question, but you have to realize that there is a difference between the Nazi party and their military tactics. if you like blitzkrieg warfare, technically British theorists J.F.C. Fuller and Captain B. H. Liddell Hart developed it, but only later did German tank commander Heinz Guderian capitalize on it. if you like German military advances during WW2, so did america. after the war the US made use of many german scientists, such asWernher von Braun, or Werner Dahm, the creator of the V1 and V2 rockets.
so unless youre talking about the war crimes or other atrocities committed, no, i dont think you are a neo nazi or anything like that. the very asking of the question shows you have the prescence of mind to know right from wrong, so as long as you have a firm grasp on you morals, you should be fine.
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Alright thanks i didn't want to be a neo nazi i just thought there military was cool but what they do was just wrong and thats why they had to be stopped
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Liking the aesthetics and workings of technology, uniforms and tactics and liking an abhorrent ideology or genocide are two different things. Key here would be to simply use the correct term 'Wehrmacht' instead of 'Nazi Army', to avoid the negative connotations associated with the word 'Nazi'.
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Thats true that i should use Wehrmacht instead of nazi army and i guess i never really thought about how there 2 different things. Thanks for clearing this up for me guys
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Basically you are a 'fan' of the Wehrmacht, not the Nazi party. Don't see a problem with that in my own eyes.
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Thanks guys for some reason i never thought of it that way ;D
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I study history, and the most basic principle is to be objective, no matter what country you are. Historian has to be always neutral. Taht's why best Japan's history is often written by people who don't have neither negative nor positive point of view and they live somewhere far far away. That's why often we ( me and my colleagues) are flamed and nearly attacked because our, forced or not, point of view is unpopular in nacionalist or patriotic groups of people. Of course it doesn't change the fact that we morally don't support or even justify crimes against mankind or even one person. But people we are attacked by often call us "morally wicked", or "being communists/fascists/nazis" only because we try to explain them why some events took place. But after years of this shitty propaganda people still think that their point of view is better because it's theirs. It's like explaining people who believe earth is flat that earth is actually a ball... Many people thinks that Wehrmacht=SS and entire Germany in 1930s was nazi-minded. Same way with Soviets and communism. And those people are narrow-minded, and it's better to avoid them. Personally I love to read books about WWII, German equipment, planes, hell, I even have KMS Bismarck! Same with Soviet, British, US, Japan, French weapons and vehicles. Am I supporter of communist-nazi-democratic-imperial-commonwealth ideology and 'morally wicked'? LOL, that's my answer.
XXth century's history is quite difficult to write down because many people still lives, and effects of WWII is undoubtely visible here in Europe. For example in France or GB you can easilly wear SS uniform while performing reconstructions, but in Poland... well, one time for wearing SS helmet because of reconstruction I spent night with my friends on police station :P
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its a political question. Germany had next to its regular army = Wehrmacht a political army = Waffen SS (Panzer Elite because of the skins not the equipmnet).
So best thing to avoid confusion is just stick to Wehr and don´t play PE ;)
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I study history, and the most basic principle is to be objective, no matter what country you are. Historian has to be always neutral. Taht's why best Japan's history is often written by people who don't have neither negative nor positive point of view and they live somewhere far far away. That's why often we ( me and my colleagues) are flamed and nearly attacked because our, forced or not, point of view is unpopular in nacionalist or patriotic groups of people. Of course it doesn't change the fact that we morally don't support or even justify crimes against mankind or even one person. But people we are attacked by often call us "morally wicked", or "being communists/fascists/nazis" only because we try to explain them why some events took place. But after years of this shitty propaganda people still think that their point of view is better because it's theirs. It's like explaining people who believe earth is flat that earth is actually a ball... Many people thinks that Wehrmacht=SS and entire Germany in 1930s was nazi-minded. Same way with Soviets and communism. And those people are narrow-minded, and it's better to avoid them. Personally I love to read books about WWII, German equipment, planes, hell, I even have KMS Bismarck! Same with Soviet, British, US, Japan, French weapons and vehicles. Am I supporter of communist-nazi-democratic-imperial-commonwealth ideology and 'morally wicked'? LOL, that's my answer.
Quite well written. Everybody around here should read this; especially in order to avoid further RedGuard-like escalations.. ;)
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Haha! Redguard <3 I do miss that guy!
I like to explain it like this. So the lazy people understand it also. ( Really good text there Cephalos, but for some people its sadly to much XD)
The nazis are and will forever be one of the brutest most disgusting bunch of war criminals in human history. However they are also the makers of one of the coolest looking things in human history.
Its like the Empire in starwars . They got awesome armours and stuff but I dont agreed with their rules. Hell, they blow upp innocent planets and stuff!
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To be honest you have to admire how advanced their technology was for their time.
For example
Jet Fighters
The Nazi's were the first to create jet powered aircraft going at quite some speed, and to think how most aircraft the world has created was thanks to the Jet Powered technology that the Nazi's had created. This technology was used by all nations more than likely.
Stealth Fighter
The Nazi's also made the first Stealth Aircraft this Aircraft was but a prototype but actually was the first functioning stealth aircraft, they were also creating a bigger version of this aircraft as a bomber, An if this Aircraft was used in the Battle of Britain in large number then their's a good chance that we would of lost the air superiority war due to how advanced these aircraft were. The American's copied this design to make their Stealth Bomber.
STG 44
The Sturmgewehr 44 the first assault rifle in history was created by the Nazi's it was originally called the MP 44 (Maschinenpistole 44) but Hitler liked the design so much that he changed its name to the STG 44 Sturmgewehr 44. Needless to say this was an amazing design that worked rather well and was incorporated into the Russian Kalashnikov Series of Assualt Rifles, what are now probably the most used rifle in the world easily the most known rifle, and with its simple design capable of being crushed with a tank and still guaranteed to fire.
They will probably forever be the worst war criminal's in history but their technology was so advanced for their time you have got to give them that one.
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Soviets were even worse war criminals :P
About the stealth fighter:
The Horten was never intended to be "stealthy". It was made of wood because of missing ressources and this had a lower radar shape.
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Aren't we talking about the Amerika bomber that resembles the B-2?
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Soviets were even worse war criminals :P
Personally I think the Japanese were the worst war criminals :-X
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i think i have to actually agree with Killar on this one, unless you can provide alternative evidence.
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i think i have to actually agree with Killar on this one, unless you can provide alternative evidence.
That's why the Soviets are deemed one of the worst. About twenty million+ people gone throughout Stalin's reign and not a single one accounted for.
Also, 1000s of nuclear weapons magically disappearing when the Soviets transitioned to a Federalist government.
However, there is no doubt that both sides had done some pretty terrible things. So lets leave it at that, it's not really an argument on who was the worst.
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To be honest you have to admire how advanced their technology was for their time.
For example
Jet Fighters
The Nazi's were the first to create jet powered aircraft going at quite some speed, and to think how most aircraft the world has created was thanks to the Jet Powered technology that the Nazi's had created. This technology was used by all nations more than likely.
The British had a Jet propulsion program years before Germany, but it failed to draw any significant interest from the government. Germans had significantly more interest and funding because the military advantages to Jet powered aircraft were obvious. Britain shat it's pants come 1941 and started dumping money into the program, but by then the Germans already a working prototype. Had the Germans failed in their attempts to create a working Jet engine, the British would have got there eventually, although that may have significantly changed the balance of power in the subsequent Cold War.
Stealth Fighter
The Nazi's also made the first Stealth Aircraft this Aircraft was but a prototype but actually was the first functioning stealth aircraft, they were also creating a bigger version of this aircraft as a bomber, An if this Aircraft was used in the Battle of Britain in large number then their's a good chance that we would of lost the air superiority war due to how advanced these aircraft were. The American's copied this design to make their Stealth Bomber.
The design and materials serendipitously gave it some protection against early radar, but all flying wing designs right up until the end of the war were prototypes, nothing like the Ho 229 ever had a chance of being in the Battle of Britain. Also, the Americans already had companies working on flying wing designs well before the the war even started, they even created several flying wing prototypes just like the Germans did, but these were prop powered as opposed to Jet powered.
STG 44
The Sturmgewehr 44 the first assault rifle in history was created by the Nazi's
StG44 was the first mass produced Assault Rifle... the Russian 'Fedorov Avtomat' can claim to be the first true assault rifle.
Soviets were even worse war criminals :P
i think i have to actually agree with Killar on this one, unless you can provide alternative evidence.
Burden of proof is on you i'm afraid.
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Actually, I'll take this one as I'd rather it didn't turn into a massive debate about who was the bigger asshole.
It's well established that the German annexation of neighboring countries started WW2, regardless of Versailles or appeasement, arguably this alone lets us attribute the deaths of all combatants in WW2 to the direct expansionist policies of the Nazi Party, this includes German dead. Coupled with the killing of Jews, political prisoners, homosexuals etc gives us a number well in excess of the numbers killed under the Stalins reign in the Soviet Union (even an inflated figure). Stalin was a massive prick, yes, his policies left a lot of people dead, yes, but worse than the Nazi's? Not even fucking close.
This said, vast majority of countries involved in WWII have blood on their hands.
- Topic locked. As much as I would like to see responses, this isn't a debate forum