Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Balance Discussion => Topic started by: krupp steel on October 01, 2012, 10:21:05 PM
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The conscript's upgrade to me seems way too expensive for what you get. Sure 3 more rifles are nice along with the slight accuracy boost but compared to the other upgrades such as the Naval's LMG or the Guard's SMG upgrade that's only 15 more munitions they scale horrible. Even if I mass 4 Conscripts with the rifle upgrade they still fail to kill a retreating volksgrenadier squad even if you box him in and block he escapes. In some cases even a measly pioneer gets out alive whereas if you had only 2 Shockguards with either upgrade or 2 Navals with each LMG they are cheaper in both munitions wise and manpower and has no problem killing retreating squads. Considering FTML is 3 CP and the Navals 2 CP the Cons. upgrade comes out later and is still worse than the LMG or any other upgrade. I suggest lowering the cost or giving the Cons. a better accuracy boost (25%-40% seems reasonable). I would much rather have Strelky than upgraded Conscripts and the Strelky is more cheap overall ( If you look at it like PE and their Assault Grenadiers vs Vanilla PGs). I mean with their crap health and nearly useless veterancy it could'nt hurt to make them better against infantry with upgarde.
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IIRC they were changing the conscript upgrade in 1.6. But I agree, current upgunned conscripts suck.
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I disagree with both of you regarding the effectiveness of Conscript rifles. My experience has been that massed Conscript rifles are very effective and coupled with no MP maintenance you effectively increase your manpower rate significantly. In other terms 6 6man strelky squads have reduce the 270 mp/min base rate by ~52 MP/min without other bonuses in play, ~(20%). I'm not suggesting 6 strelky squads should be employed but whenever you can use conscript squads in lieu of strelky you have more cap for other squads as well. A mortar, light or heavy would cost less than the differential cost of strelky rifles vs conscript rifles as well so if your considering total fire power add a mortar to 5 Cons vs 6 Strelky.
There is a way Conscript rifles could be improve however. At present Conscripts have the most effective DPS at close range. Changing this DPS effectiveness to mid or long range using upgrades or vet or just a simple buff would increase your perceived effectiveness. I believe the same argument applies to Ings and pios. pios have smgs but ings have rifles. Doesn't make sense on the face of it.
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wait, injeneries have best dps at close range? and pios the opposite? ???
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Well isn't every weapon has the highest DPS close range? I mean they are more accurate. You don't see Volksgrenadiers kill Riflemen very fast at long range as they would close. And are you talking 4 Cons. Or 6-8?
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't Conscripts have a 0.2 long range accuracy modifier.
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We're fixing the conscripts in the next patch since we're rearranging Urban Doctrine at the moment. Currently conscripts are too weak, that's true. But it will be better next patch ;)
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I thought they're weak because they're popcap-free. But I would love if their upgrade make them better vs elite armor.
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conscripts rifles will be slightly buffed vs. elite armor next patch.
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As far as I know DPS is adjusted for distance an thus includes factors as range accuracy. In any case 5 conscript squads free of cap and MP maintenance with 7 rifles each is .75 % more DPS than otherwise at any range. Cons and ings at close range deliver more damage but nothing like smgs. Dann88 is correct though. Any buff to conscripts is acceptable.
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Conscripts aren't being buffed next patch (except against Elite armour which Killar mentioned). However they're being made more accessible. DPS figures for conscripts actually puts full rifled cons pretty close to Strelky in terms of damage output and means cons are actually more damaging than Strelky at short range. Not to mention that conscript rifles are actually more effective than Strelky against Elite armour.
# con_rifle.rgd X4
| Zaxis S DPS = 13.28
| Zaxis M DPS = 6.44
| Zaxis L DPS = 3.08
# con_rifle.rgd (upgraded) X7
| Zaxis S DPS = 27.93
| Zaxis M DPS = 13.51
| Zaxis L DPS = 6.44
# mosin_nagant_rifle.rgd X6
| Zaxis S DPS = 24.9
| Zaxis M DPS = 15.78
| Zaxis L DPS = 9.84
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Is the upgrade will be still 50 munitions per squard ?
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probably yes, and it also will become non doctrinal. nothing is final, though.
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probably yes, and it also will become non doctrinal. nothing is final, though.
thank you
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Can you also state the Cons moving accuracy modifiers? In my past experiences if I use Strelky to chase down retreating squads they seem to do it alot better than chasing units on retreat with upgunned Conscripts.
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Both are 0.5 moving accuracy, the same as almost every rifle.
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Is there some sort of modifier with Conscripts rifles vs sniper armor? They can never seem to hunt them down even with the upgrades compared to other units.
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All rifles do less damage vs Sniper armour, whereas bikes and SMGs will do more.