Company of Heroes: Eastern Front
Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Suggestions => Red Army Suggestions => Topic started by: JMoldy on January 08, 2013, 11:12:03 PM
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The Americans have the basic upgrades as they go, Wehrmact has the universal upgrades, the British have the command units, the Panzer Elite have the flexible, horde-based veterancy. The Soviets, however, also have an individual squad based veterancy. It makes the Soviets feel too much like the Americans in my opinion. True, they also get the command squad upgrades, but they could still be further differentiated.
I have come up with two methods of doing this.
We can use a few things for this. For example, the fact that weapons were less common than men. There's also the fact that the Red Army's incredibly grueling warfare produced some incredibly tough veterans.
If the veterans were to be given better equipment than the average soldiers, given more upgrade choices and such, we could make them have a unique feel. The best weapons would be reserved for the elite squads, which would make them some of the most devastating soldiers on the battlefield. On the contrary, the average squads would be rather softer.
The Soviets could use their huge numbers and thus losses to their advantage. If the Red Army veterancy works by finding only the men who are the best situated to warfare, the Army could get experience not only from kills, but from losses as well. If they had a requirement at mid tier that would allow infantry squads to gain perhaps 50% experience that the opponent gains from killing each soldier, it would encourage the Soviets to play as the Red Army really does: Throw everyone at the enemy and let the anvil of war sort them out.
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If you earn vet from your killings as well(this is possible), I think the needed vet xp should be increased, otherwise you would earn vet too easily... although you can lose it that easily as well :).
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The Americans have the basic upgrades as they go, Wehrmact has the universal upgrades, the British have the command units, the Panzer Elite have the flexible, horde-based veterancy. The Soviets, however, also have an individual squad based veterancy. It makes the Soviets feel too much like the Americans in my opinion. True, they also get the command squad upgrades, but they could still be further differentiated.
I have come up with two methods of doing this.
We can use a few things for this. For example, the fact that weapons were less common than men. There's also the fact that the Red Army's incredibly grueling warfare produced some incredibly tough veterans.
If the veterans were to be given better equipment than the average soldiers, given more upgrade choices and such, we could make them have a unique feel. The best weapons would be reserved for the elite squads, which would make them some of the most devastating soldiers on the battlefield. On the contrary, the average squads would be rather softer.
The Soviets could use their huge numbers and thus losses to their advantage. If the Red Army veterancy works by finding only the men who are the best situated to warfare, the Army could get experience not only from kills, but from losses as well. If they had a requirement at mid tier that would allow infantry squads to gain perhaps 50% experience that the opponent gains from killing each soldier, it would encourage the Soviets to play as the Red Army really does: Throw everyone at the enemy and let the anvil of war sort them out.
Very good idea I hope devs consider about IMO. I actually would include both of those methods, and also add in another veterancy level or two (or even 3) and as mentioned above increase the difficulty of vetting up your infantry. I would make Vet 1,2,3 stay the same, but Vet 4 (5,6 if need be) could have the said bonuses mentioned above. And also, I really like the idea of this
it would encourage the Soviets to play as the Red Army really does: Throw everyone at the enemy and let the anvil of war sort them out.
This idea would add in more variety and options to your troops, since even with CS vet, their vet is pretty weak (especially the hard-earned vet 3 conscripts still are crap, even with a vet 3 CS). I would be happy with vetted squads able to be better than they are, since their bonuses don't seem as good as all the other factions. Of course you would increase the vet rate to be much harder to obtain and this suggestion can overhaul the vet of the Soviets, but in a good direction I think.
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I share Mr Beans's opinion!
This is a great veteran system! :D
They should add it!
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While the idea of earning vet XP by dying might be a curious one, giving them better equipment every vet level is not, so not all the bonuses said here would apply.
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While the idea of earning vet XP by dying might be a curious one, giving them better equipment every vet level is not, so not all the bonuses said here would apply.
The idea was not that they get better stuff every level, the idea was that they'd get options to get heavy/alternate equipment. eg, Strelky can get PPSh'es at vet 1, DP28's at vet 2, and perhaps something else at vet 3.
You'd have to wait till you get vet 2 to purchase the DP28's, and if you already bought the PPSh'es you wouldn't be able to get anything more.
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Strelky can get PPSh'es at vet 1, DP28's at vet 2, and perhaps something else at vet 3.
Isn't that what the 'Red banner Strelky' upgrade is for?
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I did understand what the "better stuff" would mean, but we already have upgrades like Red Banner Strelky, Men Against Tanks or Shock Guards. And they work fine so no need to remove them.
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The idea of dying for vet is not a very..........good one. It would be rather broken.
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Nah, not as broken as the sharing vet. Besides, it would be OP if they get the 50% the original proposal says, that's why it needs to be tuned. There has not been any single idea than right after being implemented is completely fine.
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The issue is is that with factions like PE, you must fight for your vet. Sure, once you get it, it is shared, woo hoo, but you have to fight very hard for it. And they are a paper thin glass cannon army anywho, so any vet ensures that they will survive for that much longer.
However, SU are already seem to be fine, but by adding vet faster, you not only give them access to good weapons but accelerated vet which is game changing. Rifles are good with BARs (to give an example) but that is soon negated by vet 2 on Axis side. However if their vet lets them stay up to par with vet 3. However if rifles got heir vet faster by simply dying, Axis couldn't keep up. Vet 3 rifles (or vet 3 anything USA for that matter) is super strong.
SU vs Wehr is currently okay in terms with how they keep up with each other. RBS=Vet 2, Vet + RBS = vet 3 (similar to USA in perspective). But by giving them accelarated vet you upset this balance.
Not to mention the fact that dying doesn't promote good gameplay. This means that reckless players will be rewarded for bad decisions and SU gain vet 2 ways: Killing AND dying. And the fact that PE vet is broken doesn't justify having a semi less broken vet system.
I seriously urge you to not consider this idea AT ALL
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The idea wasn't to stack this on top of the current system of veterancy, it would be rather a replacement.
Also, 50% might be a bit high, something more like 20% or even 10% might be more appropriate given the fact that the SU runs through soldiers very quickly.
The first idea might be a bit broken but if the SU got less experience than the other factions, perhaps so tweaked so that the SU infantry are slightly slower than the others before and slightly quicker, on average, afterwards, would make it more fitting and balanced.
SU as is works fine, I will agree. However, it just feels boring and overused. It would be more entertaining and allow for different strategies.
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@Pac-Fish
Soviet infantry units are not exactly tough guys either, except for Guards and Sturmovies. Also, you are misunderstanding how this could be used.
The "vet bonus when dying" would be small, just a plus, in example something like 0.05 when dying, so you would need to die twenty times to get 1XP, and you aren't considering the reinforcement cost at all. You certainly won't be able to abuse this thing because it will cost you too much and you will loose the game.
This could or not be applied to all units in the game, in example, conscripts would greatly benefit from this.
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This could or not be applied to all units in the game, in example, conscripts would greatly benefit from this.
yeah I am a whole agreement with giving conscripts vet a good buff.