Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Eastern Front Mod => Balance Discussion => Topic started by: SauerKRAUT on March 17, 2010, 01:38:10 PM

Title: [1.04] Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: SauerKRAUT on March 17, 2010, 01:38:10 PM
I know Kats are already kinda annoying but they had larger rockets than T-34 calliopes and Kats seem to do less damage to vehicles, their infantry damage is ok but is there anyway to do more damage to vehicles? Main reason I say this is because even 3 cannot even half damage a Stuka zu fuss and how the heck do we counter battery then? The firebases are to damn inaccurate and the artillery piece is often displaced before it can even land anything close enough. Now before anyone possibly gets their panties stuck in a knot I want to ask a question, was this damage modifier intentional? Probably but still was it for balance or possibly does it do more damage but the just Calliopes fire more rockets (2 Calliopes>in rockets # than 3 Kats right?) and should damage output (per manpower/pop cap) be comparable?
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Akalonor on March 17, 2010, 04:03:16 PM
I put Buff with increase, I know people will spam them crazily if they get too powerful.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: SauerKRAUT on March 17, 2010, 04:34:05 PM
I still want a statistic from the devs, I thought there was a thread on unit statistics like on cohstats.com but I cannot find it.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: bastex on March 17, 2010, 06:10:37 PM
the katushka was a terror weapon the germans didnt like it but the katushka's didn't do to mutch damadge ik should pinn the inf not kill it =]
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Akalonor on March 17, 2010, 06:13:31 PM
is your Signature <signature removed by admin> on purpose ?
yes but technically a light vehicle should not be able to survive direct rocket hits.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: bastex on March 17, 2010, 09:03:14 PM
yeah i called gghgh4 a retard in my sig (whitch is not a lie =])
and his sig is removed becouse he insulted the russians
but ur righ it should have a minor tweak againt light at
 
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: hgghg4 on March 18, 2010, 05:53:08 AM
I am gonna ignore you....


The Kats are fine as is, they are nasty effective against infantry when they are in groups of 2 or 3, get some AT guns or T34/85s, SU100s or IS2s to deal with tanks
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Toorstain on March 18, 2010, 03:31:49 PM
NUCLEAR WARHEADS!!! ;D
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Akalonor on March 18, 2010, 03:47:49 PM
I THINK NOT :D :D !!!!!
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: GodlikeDennis on March 20, 2010, 02:13:06 AM
The kat is one of the only arty pieces (along with the nebel - who has awesome suppression to compensate) that is not remotely effective at counter-battery fire, except against said nebel. I think a vehicle damage boost would definitely be appropriate.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: SauerKRAUT on March 20, 2010, 04:14:21 PM
all the allied arty is "soft" and burns quite nicely besides the priests and even a direct top hit with a neb will take a 3rd of it health.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: GodlikeDennis on March 21, 2010, 03:15:13 AM
all the allied arty is "soft" and burns quite nicely besides the priests and even a direct top hit with a neb will take a 3rd of it health.

And a kat could theoretically hit an enemy arty with every missile, possibly destroying it. Note I said it is not EFFECTIVE at counter fire, not that it isn't possible. The chances that a nebel will actually get a direct hit on a priest, probably at max range, are very small and I also don't think it does that much damage. The nebel is also very bad against brit arty due to their differing emplacement modifiers, along with mortars, against incoming artillery. The nebel is perhaps effective against 105s but again, the chances of a hit are small and the 105 is far more likely to kill the nebel back.

I suppose the Russian 120mm firebase is very weak, but I'll just ignore that for the sake of argument. I just want to make sure the difference between counter fire and effective counter fire are recognised and that the katyusha is very ineffective at it.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: hgghg4 on March 21, 2010, 05:40:16 AM
Nebels are my choice weapon vs a British Sim City... then stukas as choice  2... they cost no fuel once you get the building and vet 3 makes them very very nasty vs those emplacements.... and you can move the Nebels pretty quickly to avoid counter battery if you aren't being nob with them...also I love Nebs vs 105s, 1 shell hits the 105 and it will no longer shoot unless they reman it.... and the chances are rather good and with two you are almost always gonna decrew it...
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Shadowmetroid on March 21, 2010, 07:13:54 PM
Less rockets, but more damage per rocket. Also, keep it inaccurate.  That should make it more like IRL.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: SauerKRAUT on March 24, 2010, 01:16:40 PM
it already does not have as many rockets as a Calliope, also the nebies are great for killing brits because they have burn damage.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Paciat on March 24, 2010, 04:55:00 PM
Less rockets, but more damage per rocket. Also, keep it inaccurate.  That should make it more like IRL.
+1
Thats how the Soviet army should be. High and inaccurate damage.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Akalonor on March 24, 2010, 10:17:16 PM
Maybe same(or More) rockets but higher AOE damage, it would suit the purpose better.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Versedhorison on March 25, 2010, 10:43:35 AM
katushya is fine as it is in my opinion.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Akalonor on March 27, 2010, 01:27:15 AM
I can't believe Nuclear warhead got 6 votes, this ISNT science fiction!!
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Venoxxis on March 27, 2010, 02:37:42 AM
katushya is fine as it is in my opinion.

My opinion as well, just let them stay as they are.
A blob of kats is crazy strong already. And thats quite ok for balance as well.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: SauerKRAUT on March 29, 2010, 02:04:11 PM
They are so squishy, if you do not move them they will die from counter battery and sometimes a suicide stug, 600+ MP down the toilet. I still think it should get a small vehicle damage buff, against half tracks primarily and nothing else. I am not looking to kill tanks with the bastard and the infantry damage is already horrifying. They still take up more MP and pop cap per damage capita than a calliope.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Akalonor on March 29, 2010, 04:52:38 PM
Ialways wodered how in-game colliopes are so good yet soo bad.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: PoldekPL on March 29, 2010, 09:15:04 PM
Ialways wodered how in-game colliopes are so good yet soo bad.
Callioppe was good... long time ago. before patch 1.5. It could use main turret (but every rocket barrage cost was 150 muni -_-). Every next patch was making them weaker and weaker. Sometimes 2 callies firing at one volks squad can't kill them. I can PROVE IT.
versions 1.0-1.7 (except 1.71 when WB was broken) were the best... no-one heard about "balance", but crazy firing callioppe, max 3 pershings with badass range and hit power... and KT which was same Tiger with better stats was pure fun :D
About katyushas... leave them as they are. but one advice - NEVER, NEVER rush with them. I dunno how, but katyusha is just truck with some pipes (and rockets xD), US M3 is just trick with optional 4xMG... M3 can survive 2 panzershrecks, sometimes more, and katyusha can be taken out with MG42 in... 15sec?
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Akalonor on March 29, 2010, 11:32:02 PM
Thought something was a little off when the colliope didn't shoot back, They are still annoying but not much of a game ending threat.
If You're saying US M3 is a little OP than I agree.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: SauerKRAUT on March 30, 2010, 02:58:28 PM
Well the m3 has armor against small arms, about .75 inches while the kat is just a dang Studebaker truck lol.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Versedhorison on March 31, 2010, 12:26:37 AM
They are so squishy, if you do not move them they will die from counter battery and sometimes a suicide stug, 600+ MP down the toilet. I still think it should get a small vehicle damage buff, against half tracks primarily and nothing else. I am not looking to kill tanks with the bastard and the infantry damage is already horrifying. They still take up more MP and pop cap per damage capita than a calliope.

It's a friken truck. A truck couldn't even deflect 9mm rounds. what makes you think that it should deserve armour protection.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: SauerKRAUT on March 31, 2010, 06:21:37 PM
I did not say anything about armoring it, just the fact that it is so easy to kill them it is almost not worth getting them at this point when a stuka zu fuss is essentially invulnerable to counter fire from anything the Russians have (firebase is to inaccurate and the stuka has often moved after misses and a non direct hit will not even kill it).
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Ghost on March 31, 2010, 08:19:39 PM
it's all about movement. like the nebelwerfer you have to move it after each barrage to protect it from enemy arty fire.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: huggy on March 31, 2010, 08:32:24 PM
maybe if it had the same Armour as a "Stuka Halftrack" could do the job ?

Personally i think the "kat" has too much propaganda inside itself, it can ram troops down. once its near infantry and drive around them, they die :(
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: stryker on April 01, 2010, 11:14:51 AM
maybe if it had the same Armour as a "Stuka Halftrack" could do the job ?
While I agree the Kat is a soft target, if we're going to be fair on the Stuka zu Fuss, it was based on the Sd.Kfz. 251 halftrack, which was covered in armored plating.  The stuka should in my view be a little easier to harm with arty and other weps from above (it was open topped after all) but it should be a harder target to take out than the kat since (as posted above) the kat was based on a regular truck.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: SauerKRAUT on April 01, 2010, 04:00:40 PM
Wow where are you guys getting the idea ANYONE wanted the kat armored? Just a damage increase against stukas.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Ost_Front_Soldat on April 01, 2010, 09:03:20 PM
It is a fucking truck guys, wha the hell do you expect? If anything the Hanomag is under-armoured.

And the Katyusha is a tricky weapon to accurately portray in an RTS with the scale of CoH. There were used en masse, not piece-meal, the effectiveness of the Katyusha was never down to the individual units, but their numbers, using the rationale of "If you throw enough spagetti at a wall, some of it will stick" they were horribly inaccurate. So as it is, let's not make any drastic changes.
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Versedhorison on April 06, 2010, 04:37:39 PM
It is a fucking truck guys, wha the hell do you expect? If anything the Hanomag is under-armoured.

And the Katyusha is a tricky weapon to accurately portray in an RTS with the scale of CoH. There were used en masse, not piece-meal, the effectiveness of the Katyusha was never down to the individual units, but their numbers, using the rationale of "If you throw enough spagetti at a wall, some of it will stick" they were horribly inaccurate. So as it is, let's not make any drastic changes.

+1
Title: Re: Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: vietlord on April 11, 2010, 09:55:20 AM
and a truck full with explosive must be weak !!!
Title: Re: [1.04] Kat too weak compared to IRL? Is balance part of the equation?
Post by: Seeme on April 15, 2010, 01:35:21 AM
In real war, a kat killed 4-6 inf each time it fired and surpressed them alot. That what it is right now with EF.