Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Eastern Front Mod (Read-Only) => Strategy and Tactics => Strategy and Tactics for Americans => Topic started by: Monos on March 04, 2012, 09:57:03 PM

Title: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 04, 2012, 09:57:03 PM
Oh my god... The CalliOP is the most OP unit ever. Just faced one for the first time and omg omg omg.

500-200 VP, i had the whole map as PE.. I had all 3 Vp's, i had won all battles and didn't want to basestomp him cus thats just.. low..

What happenes, he makes rifles with bars, sits in his base, does nothing.. I'm waiting to win. Then i hear a noise, BAM he has called in a calliope. I thought it wasn't that strong but OMG!

It took out a Bergertiger in one volley. WTF is that? Now i don't know if it's been rebalanced in EF cus this was normal TOV 602, but hell. No other artillery in the game is that strong. He won the game.. De stroyed my base with calliop'es, he destroyed my panther battlegroup, with calliopes in close range. He destroyed my infantry with calliopes. He didn't use any other unit and he won the game. 0-80

Hummels are supposed to be strong, but they got no dmg nor hit-chance compaired to these darn vehicles. The most OP unit in the game must be the Calliope. Thats the reason everybody on shoutcasts go Armor doc as US..

And god my opponent was the worst ever. It was one of his first times playing. He did everything wrong but still i couldn't win.
He blobbed all his riflemen, i had my men scattered in different greencovers on langress right side. This was his first good attack of the whole game. 15 min into the game and his first attack. I was ready for him and chewed him up BUT!

He got XP because of his soldiers died. And he killed all my PG's, in 1 calliope strike. And i had 7 squads.. When i saw the rockets i hit retreat, but he killed them all.. And all my vehicles. After that i decided to kill the darn thing with panthers. Since he had nothing else than Bars and Calliopes.. i got close, pointet at it, fired.. But he got anotherone then..

And guess what he did, he callioped my panthers, leaving them both at 20% health.. 2 stickis on each, and they gone.

Your crazy lucky when your hummel hits a vehicle, but the calliope spread is so tight it allways hits, nomatter if you try to drive away\towards\to the side.

He went out with his blob, beeing artilleried by my hummels when he tried to cap shit, but when the first shell lands you just retreat, since it's a long time til the next one comes.


So the question is:
Is the Calliope the biggest game-changer\n00bs win their first game ever unit?
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Cranialwizard on March 04, 2012, 10:01:23 PM
I think he just outplayed you. Replay or it didn't happen I think.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 04, 2012, 10:03:40 PM
I think he just outplayed you. Replay or it didn't happen I think.

Yeah, he camped in his base until he had enuff fuel on his +5 (or 10) next to his base on langres, then he got bars, sendt them to die, time after time. Then he got calliope, capped the points of the map 1 by 1.. And.. yeah, i couldn't stop him because the calliopes destroy all my stuff.

End screen =

Him,
- Kills: 91
- Losses: 209
Me:
- Kills: 188
- Losses: 92

Now this was because he suicided all his stuff all game to get Experiance.


Vehicles produced for him was 10, he lost 7. (most of them halftracks, dunno why he got so many of them)
For me it was 17 produced and 22 lost. All killed by calliopes.

Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Cranialwizard on March 04, 2012, 10:04:36 PM
Replay or it didn't happen I think.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 04, 2012, 10:09:24 PM
Ummm it sounds like you should have just base rushed him ::) Even if you didn't want to because its "low" (which it really isn't) you should have sent your Panthers to elliminate his Calliope. There is no way 2 full health Panthers both get reduced to 20% health unless they had been previously damaged(well, maybe). It sounds like he had no AT (armor doctrine + no fuel) so really I dont think you can blame Calliopes for losing. They are powerful but not the way you are describing it. They should NOT kill a tank in one barrage (unless your bergre was repairing, which makes it take 10x damage).

And Calliopes take 8 CPs and 650mp each which is ALOT. That means he must have killed a significant number of your units. And IDK what doctrine you picked but if he had Calliopes you should have went TD doctrine.

And again replay is needed to prove your point. And I dont understand the 2nd option to your question :P. Do you mean just counter the Calliopes?
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: stealthattack1 on March 04, 2012, 10:28:45 PM
calliope is definitely not OP. you got outplayed. next time, instead of building a bergertiger if you already have map control go TD doctrine, get hetzers, base rush. calliopes have been overstated in this thread. 
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 04, 2012, 10:33:50 PM
He hit a panther in the back and got it down to 20%, also about the berger, didn't know it took 10x more dmg when repairing. Thats why it was as good as dead afterwards.

And 650MP? Hummels is 600, but they are much slower to fire and fire fewer shells. when a hummel fire you just leave the area. When a calliope fire, you are dead allready.

If he had gone Infantry tree and chosen to get the whatever-pounder artillery firebase they got available to you, it wouldn't have been the same. He wouldn't have roflstomped me like that. I've read on Gamereplays or somewhere that people claim calliope to be the most game-changing unit in the game. But i never believed it before this. No other call in the allies have could've won him the game.. PERIOD.


I allready had chosen doctrine way before any calliopes was on the field. I won every earlygame and mid-game engagement, i lost 100 men less than him in total.

I got the bergertiger to get my panthers back to life, or some of my other vehicles. As a last ditch effort.


http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes/replays.php?game=25&show=details&id=256883


No calliopes = No win for him. I just gave up in the end. It got too boring.

I've played people four times his lvl, and been OUTPLAYED SOOO HARD! Even played games that has been real close. This is not like those. Not at all, this is something else. I've allways lost because they were better at the fundamentals. Not because they were better at getting calliopes.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 04, 2012, 10:40:41 PM
He hit a panther in the back and got it down to 20%, also about the berger, didn't know it took 10x more dmg when repairing. Thats why it was as good as dead afterwards.

And 650MP? Hummels is 600, but they are much slower to fire and fire fewer shells. when a hummel fire you just leave the area. When a calliope fire, you are dead allready.

I allready had chosen doctrine way before any calliopes was on the field. I won every earlygame and mid-game engagement, i lost 100 men less than him in total.

I got the bergertiger to get my panthers back to life, or some of my other vehicles. As a last ditch effort.

A Hummel can be devastating. Each shell does like 200 dmg (I read that on COH wiki :P) And if it is firing slow you can always use the "Rapid Fire Lock Down" ability ::)

I think there was one of your problems. You chose a doctrine too early. Wait to see what the enmey chooses first.

If you Panthers had been blown up in you opponents base then why bother getting a Bergretiger? You have zero chance of recovering it.

Calliopes are game changers but so are dual Panthers against zero AT :P

And again do you have the replay for this specific game you are talking about ?
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 04, 2012, 10:45:02 PM
I have allready posted the replay. And not all vehicles died in the enemy base. This panther was right outside my own base. .. or actually it was two.. They both got hit by calliope and got destroyed, though low, no other artillery got such a smooth spread and high hit chance as this one.

I've watched replay twice again, and all i see is that it's close, i'm in the lead, i'm doing best.. Until calliope comes and wins.

I was slowing his capping down with Bobytraps, how could i guess he would bring that stuff into the game. Now as i know i'll allways wait ready to choose TD against calliopes.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 04, 2012, 11:10:26 PM
My bad. I shall watch the replay later ;)
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: jdogg on March 04, 2012, 11:29:16 PM
all i have to say is that in no way is the calliope a gamewinner, a good piece of arty, but unless you really dont know how to deal with any form of arty its not a gamechanger its a support unit. PE inherently has a lack of long range arty which is why it may have came as such a shock to you. but from personal experience theres been many a game i lost with multiple calliopes at my disposal. and in almost any circumstance arty will decimate infantry cover or no cover.

In addition based on your other topics I.E. airborne = useless along with rage polls i have no choice but to really question your skills as a player since i find airborne to be one of the better us doctrines to go with.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: cephalos on March 04, 2012, 11:32:51 PM
double shreck squad in IHT and raid them. That's my counter  ;)
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 04, 2012, 11:39:53 PM
Seems like somebody disagrees:

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=702650



"The key is to compare it against other on field artillery, without a doubt, best artillery in the game at the moment."

Even here people claim that Calliope is hardest to counter + best artillery in the game.
And with so many rockets firing so fast it hits really good too.

Now to state facts, even a King Tiger is a support unit, you can't win the game with only a King Tiger. But nobody has ONLY Calliopes. In the end i had 2 hummels, which mostly missed their targets due to their few shells and long fire time, and superduper slow speed. Calliope is fast, fires fast, hits hard, hits huge areas. Hummels don't. They can counter-fire at hummels, hummels can't counterfire back. Same with all stationary arty, priest and yeah.. Thats all.

Calliope the best. Hands down.
double shreck squad in IHT and raid them. That's my counter  ;)

I tried to have shreksquad in an IHT, but i didn't get close to their base, and if i had. He would probably barrage me killing those units too.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: bopokippo on March 05, 2012, 01:19:16 AM
Agreed. Calliope is too good. Its arty alone makes it better than a hummel. Then add the fact that IT'S A SHERMAN and you can escape from AT fire alive and get back to your base quickly. The effect of the barrage is also too immediate. If a hummel or howie shoots, you got time, you got time... If a calliope shoots and you react instantly, all Paks in the area=decrewed and infantry take about 30-40% losses with perfect retreat. Without retreat it just pwns everything. At close range or moderately so, it will kill vehicles no sweat. It will make up its cost in about 2 minutes. Many people say that you just need to learn to play and that you should stop n00b blobbing but honestly, it doesn't take a level 20 to figure that this unit is slightly too powerful. The rocket's damage needs to be decreased and you should get some kind of warning (like fog of war view and an audio thing) around 4 seconds before it shoots. Also increase recharge time. It is a strong unit physically, no need to give it strongest arty in game as well.

The ONLY remote success I've had AGAINST SINGLE CALLIOPES is grouping my people into a perpendicular line cus callie shots tend to miss only far or short of the target zone. If you got 2 calliopes, you're good as dead unless you ultra deblob and spread one unit per 3 sectors.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: bopokippo on March 05, 2012, 01:21:36 AM
Please give reasonable counters to calliopes as PE or wehr that doesn't involve 2 calliopes vs the world.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 05, 2012, 01:39:12 AM
Agreed. Calliope is too good. Its arty alone makes it better than a hummel. Then add the fact that IT'S A SHERMAN and you can escape from AT fire alive and get back to your base quickly. The effect of the barrage is also too immediate. If a hummel or howie shoots, you got time, you got time... If a calliope shoots and you react instantly, all Paks in the area=decrewed and infantry take about 30-40% losses with perfect retreat. Without retreat it just pwns everything. At close range or moderately so, it will kill vehicles no sweat. It will make up its cost in about 2 minutes. Many people say that you just need to learn to play and that you should stop n00b blobbing but honestly, it doesn't take a level 20 to figure that this unit is slightly too powerful. The rocket's damage needs to be decreased and you should get some kind of warning (like fog of war view and an audio thing) around 4 seconds before it shoots. Also increase recharge time. It is a strong unit physically, no need to give it strongest arty in game as well.

The ONLY remote success I've had AGAINST SINGLE CALLIOPES is grouping my people into a perpendicular line cus callie shots tend to miss only far or short of the target zone. If you got 2 calliopes, you're good as dead unless you ultra deblob and spread one unit per 3 sectors.

Second that! Actually if you upgrade Smoke screen for your tanks.. You can just pop that if somebody get's close to that Calliope, vollah, even more unkillable :P


Please give reasonable counters to calliopes as PE or wehr that doesn't involve 2 calliopes vs the world.

Yeah!
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 05, 2012, 01:54:02 AM
Okay guys. Before you start an Anti Calliope riot ::) I watched you replay. You most certainly were blobing. You had 6 PG squads next to the same strat point :(! Further more your US opponent knew to attack your cutoffs while you we literally next to his cutoffs and didn't do anything :(. Also your IHT rush was a fail beacuse you rushed it through 4 vet BAR rifle squads AND you didn't retreat when the HT died. You also spammed Panzer IV which you simply stuck them in front of rifles and AT guns and consequently got sticked and AP rounded to death. And you had 6 PANTHERS. That by 1 v 1 standards is shit load of armor. But you didn't really use them well. You just rushed them at his Calliopes and expected to pwn him. Both sides were blobbling but you might have blobbed more. Also you choose to cap the wrong things and teched bad. You needed Marders and ATHTs not Panzer IVs. They are not the ROFLstomp vehcles some games make them out to be. And again, not such a great doctrine. You should have scorched the VP, not kept sending shreck teams to get it. You also didnt know when to retreat and lost many squads due to this.

As a counter a would suggest PAnthers but used efficiently. Also Marders or dual shreck IHT rush is a viable option. Dont try to se HUmmels against a Calliope (which you did). It will simply move ::).
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: bopokippo on March 05, 2012, 02:07:54 AM
Panthers=dead panthers next to stickies, 2 AT guns, and a calliope barrage. Marders=dead marders from calliope barrage which wipes its support (and possibliy the marder itself) and lets AT guns and stickies charge. Dual schrek=dead from stickies and AT guns.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 05, 2012, 02:14:11 AM
Last i checked panzer IV's counter infantry... Marders do not. One of my panzers almost killed 3 squads of riflemen in one engagement. (Almost 810 MP) Marders would've been a waste (?) since he had no armor except a T17 and halftrack.

We were both fighting over the mid right ammo point when the calliope suddently struck. Difference between my and his blobbing was that i used TAB to place my squads into cover.

Panthers were called in just to take of the calliope's. He had no armor on the field to use them against and they are slow and easy to sticky. Better get them to that arty piece fast.

Sometimes you aren't looking at the units you have to retreat and you lose units. Well he lost over twice as many so i think he was worse at that than me at that. He was getting his ass handed to him before he got that calliope out.


Scorched the VP wouldn't really have helped since 1VP each would just have delayed him abit more. I couldn't hit back, in the end i didn't even have a base.


Still don't see how a Marder would help against only calliope, it does the same job as panther just dies twice as fast :P
(Unless it's faster than i thought)


Btw, first time PE vs real people, how do you mean my teching and capping was bad?



(The IHT opperasjon should've been sendt on the Left side of the map instead. Maby all the opperations should be done there.)
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: bopokippo on March 05, 2012, 02:19:35 AM
TBH, if the calliope was part of EF, the devs would already have nerfed it. Seriously, calliopes absolutely demolish late game strangleholds.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 05, 2012, 02:24:27 AM
Jesus Christ you guys act like Calliopes are and end all to any Axis game. There is such a thing as combined arms. You dont just send in units one by one in the same direction (which is what happened in the replay). You send them in an overwhleming assault and you support your units with other units.

And if Calliopes were really as OP as you guys make them out to be why dont high lvl playes spam calliopes to no end? I mean stag spam I can understand but not calliope spam.

I say your teching was bad because you went T2 which was fine. Then you went to T3 and got ACs while your opponent got T17s and M3s. Then instead of getting a Marder or T4 you went T1 and got increased squad size which really did not help. Then later you got T4.

A Marder would have detered him from using any vehicles. That T17 was harrasing you the entire time yet you never even tried to stop it. An ATHT would have also helped since it has Focus Fire. ALso you shouldnt just get PAnthers for the sole purpose of Anyi Calliope. They are great units and should be used accordingly.

And schorching the VP would have helped, trust me :P. Especially combined with Hummel Fire
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 05, 2012, 02:37:03 AM
I reserched shreks to deal with it  :P Maby a bad choice. But i didn't see it as that big a threat.

I looked after a shoutcast "tales of Heroes" where calliopes won the game, but didn't find it again. Not spammed since you can't build more than 2 at the same time. And most pro games i've seen the US player goes Armor to get Calliopes.
Those guys even have a maximum cap because their so strong. You see it everywhere written that it is the best artillery.

The question is, would he have won without it?... Ehm, i don't think so. Most my losses was gained by it, or trying to take it out.


I would like playing you Tranny, even though i'm a beginner and would get whopped. Would learn alot, maby even how to counter the most effective artillery in the game!
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 05, 2012, 02:41:12 AM
I wouldn't mind playing you ;). Im no expert but I could try. I do agree that Calliope is probably the best artillery. BUT it is expensive, comes late, cant defend itself and has a hard cap of 2. Its those reasons why its so good.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 05, 2012, 02:43:47 AM
I wouldn't mind playing you ;). Im no expert but I could try. I do agree that Calliope is probably the best artillery. BUT it is expensive, comes late, cant defend itself and has a hard cap of 2. Its those reasons why its so good.

50MP more than Hummel.. Hummel also late.. Hummel easier to kill and slower both to drive and fire. ^^,
Your an expert compaired to me.


I use tunngle to play, actually today it was 160 players on. :)
You use Skype?
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 05, 2012, 02:46:45 AM
I have Mumble and X-Fire.

Hummels cost less (not alot), less CPs, you can have 3 on the field, and they can be recovered. You theoretically can recover a Calliope but through Allied War Machine.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 05, 2012, 02:51:35 AM
Name there?

(wow, x-fire seems to have changed ALOT)
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 05, 2012, 02:56:38 AM
Fishhunterx ofc ;)
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: bopokippo on March 05, 2012, 02:58:24 AM
Jesus Christ you guys act like Calliopes are and end all to any Axis game. There is such a thing as combined arms. You dont just send in units one by one in the same direction (which is what happened in the replay). You send them in an overwhleming assault and you support your units with other units.

And if Calliopes were really as OP as you guys make them out to be why dont high lvl playes spam calliopes to no end? I mean stag spam I can understand but not calliope spam.

I say your teching was bad because you went T2 which was fine. Then you went to T3 and got ACs while your opponent got T17s and M3s. Then instead of getting a Marder or T4 you went T1 and got increased squad size which really did not help. Then later you got T4.

A Marder would have detered him from using any vehicles. That T17 was harrasing you the entire time yet you never even tried to stop it. An ATHT would have also helped since it has Focus Fire. ALso you shouldnt just get PAnthers for the sole purpose of Anyi Calliope. They are great units and should be used accordingly.

And schorching the VP would have helped, trust me :P. Especially combined with Hummel Fire

Ok.

1. Calliope kills combined arms. It can easily eliminate any single component of a combined arms force (AT guns, infantry force, light vehicles, damage heavy vehicles) leaving the rest very vulnerable.

2. There are things that not even pros have discovered. When they do use them, I see that they never lose... :/
In Starcraft II, ghost spam was occasionally used and was considered balanced cause not many people used it. Then one day, a top player (IMMVP)started to use them and then they got nerfed
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 05, 2012, 03:03:05 AM
Fishhunterx ofc ;)

Added


Quote
2. There are things that not even pros have discovered. When they do use them, I see that they never lose... :/
In Starcraft II, ghost spam was occasionally used and was considered balanced cause not many people used it. Then one day, a top player (IMMVP)started to use them and then they got nerfed

... Good point.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 05, 2012, 03:05:54 AM
@Monos: Are you Pie ???

@Bopokippo: Honestly if you cant kill a calliope with 2 Panthers thats all on you. And just like any arty if you keeping mvoing you wont tank AS much damage. I mean you can always disable its treads.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: stealthattack1 on March 05, 2012, 03:08:28 AM
@monos, that thread was talking about company of heroes online. they even said that the vcoh calli was good. if you are a blobber, then prepare to get arty-ed. calliope should only take out one unit at a time, at most 2. either you're trolling or you just had bad luck. either way, calliope does not need to be nerfed.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: GodlikeDennis on March 05, 2012, 03:15:30 AM
Callies are slightly OP compared to other arty to make up for the fact they come in a rather underwhelming doctrine. Face it, everyone goes armour for them specifically. While they are strong, they are counterable I think this is a bit of a L2P issue. If you have Panthers, you should be able to easily find a way to attack his callies. If he has them on the field, NEVER get more than 3 squads in the same place.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 05, 2012, 03:19:23 AM
Callies are slightly OP compared to other arty to make up for the fact they come in a rather underwhelming doctrine. Face it, everyone goes armour for them specifically. While they are strong, they are counterable I think this is a bit of a L2P issue. If you have Panthers, you should be able to easily find a way to attack his callies. If he has them on the field, NEVER get more than 3 squads in the same place.

L2p means when 2 n00bs face eachother, the one with the Cali-OP wins ^^

This post is SIGNED
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: GodlikeDennis on March 05, 2012, 03:41:06 AM
Uhh OK. This doesn't change anything. Gameplay isn't balanced for noobs, it's balanced for higher level games and gets carried down to noobs - The same way the game is balanced for 1v1s and carries down to teamgames. The Calli is fine and won't be touched. Snipers are also OP, to a degree, but noobs can't use them right so they suck. It just means the noobs need to learn and get better rather than complain that something's OP or UP in the forum.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: bopokippo on March 05, 2012, 04:00:31 AM
@Monos: Are you Pie ???

@Bopokippo: Honestly if you cant kill a calliope with 2 Panthers thats all on you. And just like any arty if you keeping mvoing you wont tank AS much damage. I mean you can always disable its treads.

But then the panthers get stuck between a rock and a hard place. See, if your panthers try to move back, then they go slower and allow riflemen to sticky them as unsupported panthers (and they WILL be unsupported at a minimum with proper calliope usage to kill PGs and light vehicles) kinda are terrible vs infantry. I would bet that panthers are probably the best shot a PE has but honestly I think the only real chance is some kind of precise timing attack right after a barrage but if the enemy has two calliopes, that window becomes very small or even nonexistant.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Jeff 'Robotnik' W. on March 05, 2012, 04:41:38 AM
as said before, the calliope is really the only thing that shines in the armor doctrine, the pershing being somewhat meh.

though i must say, if you dont like calliopes here, you should have seen them in COH:O. those things were damn beasts
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 05, 2012, 04:50:39 AM
But then the panthers get stuck between a rock and a hard place. See, if your panthers try to move back, then they go slower and allow riflemen to sticky them as unsupported panthers

Your panther will not be as slow as you make it out to be. Honestly, even a KT might be able to move fast enough to get out of the range of a sticky. And the Panther shouldn't be just ramming right into rifles and calliopes (well maybe the calliopes). They have awsome range, take advantage of it. And IMO with MGs Panthers make okay infantry killers.

And I agree the Pershing overall for the cost and time it takes kinda sucks

And sometimes backing up or turning arond isnt the best option. Sometimes I make U turns with my tanks ;D
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Tankbuster on March 05, 2012, 11:43:58 AM
Let me tell you how OP the Soviet Arty firebase is


EVERY SHOT THAT LAUNCHES HITS MY SOLDIERS,
YESTERDAY I LOST 4 PGRENS IN THE FIRST 2 SHOTS

now thats op




The Pershing gets PWNed by the IS2 ;)
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 05, 2012, 03:14:26 PM
EVERY SHOT THAT LAUNCHES HITS MY SOLDIERS,
YESTERDAY I LOST 4 PGRENS IN THE FIRST 2 SHOTS

Pft, lucky hits =P
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Tankbuster on March 05, 2012, 03:31:12 PM
The Calli barrage destroying 2 Panthers is lucky.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Walentin 'Walki' L. on March 05, 2012, 03:51:35 PM
In the end Calliope is and will stay a gamechanger.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Tankbuster on March 05, 2012, 03:53:34 PM
Yup, thats why poeple never use a Jumbo
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 05, 2012, 04:49:49 PM
The Calli barrage destroying 2 Panthers is lucky.

They were low and retreating. Rocket barrage hit everything in the area of hitting. It fires many many rockets = Easier to hit :)
In the end Calliope is and will stay a gamechanger.
Yup, thats why poeple never use a Jumbo

QFT
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Tankbuster on March 05, 2012, 05:08:34 PM
You obviously haven't seen the Katyusha exploit  :-X
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 05, 2012, 05:33:38 PM
You obviously haven't seen the Katyusha exploit  :-X

What exploit?
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on March 05, 2012, 05:55:23 PM
You obviously haven't seen the Katyusha exploit  :-X

Shht. ;)
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: bopokippo on March 05, 2012, 11:18:36 PM
Tell the katyusha to attack ground. it can fire like 400 meters and in a continuous barrage, no breaks. SO awesome. 2v2s it gets you vet 3 in about a minute. Next minute, you're destroying their base form your base
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Monos on March 05, 2012, 11:40:21 PM
Tell the katyusha to attack ground. it can fire like 400 meters and in a continuous barrage, no breaks. SO awesome. 2v2s it gets you vet 3 in about a minute. Next minute, you're destroying their base form your base

 :o :-X ???
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: stealthattack1 on March 05, 2012, 11:52:18 PM
fun for a quick win in comp games.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Blackbishop on March 05, 2012, 11:53:48 PM
You should try it while you can, it is going to be removed in the next released patch.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 06, 2012, 01:49:49 AM
You should try it while you can, it is going to be removed in the next released patch.

Yes but for the love off god don't do it in a PvP game unless they are okay with it. Its not fun to sit there watching your base explode in 10 seconds ::) (I have experienced it)
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: bopokippo on March 06, 2012, 04:45:11 AM
You should try it while you can, it is going to be removed in the next released patch.

Yes but for the love off god don't do it in a PvP game unless they are okay with it. Its not fun to sit there watching your base explode in 10 seconds ::) (I have experienced it)

 ;D funny thing you mention that... :P
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: dragonmith on March 06, 2012, 04:47:09 AM
katyusha was nerfed to extremes (IMO) when the spread changed to a Calliope pattern, i hardly ever use propaganda now.

as to OP, i would have to say nein, while they will mess you up if you're not careful (as they should) like most artillery it can't take out all forces in one go. (if you want overpowered say god of war)

in VCOH, wasnt the cap 3 callis?
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: bopokippo on March 06, 2012, 04:57:08 AM
Yeah, cheap as they are, katyushas are kind of lackluster. I think their rockets do less damage than callies as well and they shoot for a shorter period of time. I think the hardcap should be 4-5 and the spread reduced or damage increased slightly.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 06, 2012, 10:07:28 AM
Hardcap for Calliopes is 2. Kats are 3. Kats are cheaper and less lack luster do to the fact they practically sit in a artillery + support doctrine full of abilities. Calliopes must carry the rest of its doctrine around (not that all of its abilitie are bad but still). Also KAts were kinda OP b4 so they've been nerfed :P.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Jeff 'Robotnik' W. on March 06, 2012, 03:39:15 PM
Early versions of COH had no limit for calliopes lol
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Max 'DonXavi' von B. on March 06, 2012, 03:44:28 PM
By that time, these beasts were even able to fire their main guns..  :-X
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Tankbuster on March 06, 2012, 04:29:28 PM
Their Barrages did cost muni though. 125 IIRC
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Jeff 'Robotnik' W. on March 07, 2012, 08:46:20 PM
and they came out at 4 cp, right before the pershing
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: SublimeSnugz on March 08, 2012, 10:29:00 AM
and they came out at 4 cp, right before the pershing

aaahh the balance those days <3
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Desert_Fox on March 08, 2012, 11:21:17 AM
Their Barrages did cost muni though. 125 IIRC


Calliope barriage has no ammo cost...just only cooldown time, that can be reduced with veterancy levels.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: cephalos on March 08, 2012, 11:26:37 AM
Their Barrages did cost muni though. 125 IIRC


Calliope barriage has no ammo cost...just only cooldown time, that can be reduced with veterancy level.

in previous versions they did.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S. on March 08, 2012, 06:31:46 PM
Their Barrages did cost muni though. 125 IIRC


Calliope barriage has no ammo cost...just only cooldown time, that can be reduced with veterancy levels.
Yep, 125 ammo and their main gun, until armour was reworked in 1.5. Best thing was their phasing bug. Panzerschreck / pak / tank shells shooting from medium - long range would just fly through them without doing damage. And this could be made even worse with researching Smoke Canisters.

They were called "Plasma Shield Shermans". Good times...
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Ghost on March 09, 2012, 09:47:21 PM
first, i really don't know why you say they are OP after "Just faced one for the first time and omg omg omg.".  ::)

unit stats:
hummel: max range 200 (set up) / 115 (mobile), min range 35, cooldown 60s (vet 0) / 43s (vet3)
calliope: max range 150, min range 36, cooldown 80s (vet 0) / 65s (vet3)
hummel is a real arty with high damage and range and quite accurate, while calliopes are very good for area bombardments, but have terrible accuracy unless you get them close to the target. when attacked by them, keep moving ;) it hardly hits the same unit more than once unless it's close to the target.

calliope is the only mobile arty for US and they can have 2 of them. WM have nebels and stukas, PE have hummels. when used effiently hummels can also be game changers. and when you keep moving and don't blob your units, calliopes are not a real threat ;)

conclusion:
yes they are little trolls, but far from OP.

ps: i didn't watch your replay, but from your opening post, i can't imagine that he just did nothing and you had the whole map. he needs ressources and pop cap to have 3 calliopes (30 pop) + X riflemen...and all the ammo for the stickies... but guess i'm going to watch the replay now  :P just wanna see it  ;D


edit:
ok, i watched the replay and... :X
1. until the first calliope was called the game was quite even, with both sides holding about 50% of the map and you had more VP.
but you made a few lethal mistakes:
1. you used all your units in one group blobbed together -> easy target for calliopes, that's why casualties were so high
2. i saw those hummels parked right next to each other -> easy target for calliopes
3. i saw masses of unsupported tanks (panthers and panzer IV IS) rushing at his rifles (with sticky bombs+picked up schrecks) and AT gun -> bad idea and waste of ressources. even a lonely bergetiger trying to recover a wreck with rifles standing right next to it...
4. he used his calliopes quite efficently to shoot down every unit you used for capping
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: jdogg on March 10, 2012, 04:51:08 AM
well put ghost, well put indeed
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: TheVolskinator on March 11, 2012, 03:39:40 AM
EiRR mod -> Armor doc -> unlock callies -> level up -> get 'Urban Survival Kit' -> callies get their main gun enabled and a shorter cooldown, as well as true tank criticals (less chance of a damaged engine etc) -> unlock double repair kits. 90+ kill callie per game? Yes plz.

Callie is so easy to use, and so easy to screw up with (firing at max range). In the right hands it's easily the most OP arty in the game--before someone says otherwise, I've been on both ends of it constantly in EiR--which hasn't tampered with it's rockets' stats--and I can say it's the biggest pain in the ass to kill when properly guarded. The fact that it has such a large spread means that moving simply won't cut it. Storms run like hell, just as quickly as your average P4 will. Callies HURT, and while they can't shit out shells quite as far as a howie or hummel will, if it targets something of yours with it's barrage, say gg.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 11, 2012, 04:06:17 AM
What does EiRR mean ???? And Im not sure what stance you are taking. You are saying Calliopes are OP ???
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Cranialwizard on March 11, 2012, 04:17:02 AM
What does EiRR mean ???? And Im not sure what stance you are taking. You are saying Calliopes are OP ???

It's a mod for COH (Europe on Ruins). Quite revolutionary.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 11, 2012, 04:20:23 AM
What does EiRR mean ???? And Im not sure what stance you are taking. You are saying Calliopes are OP ???

It's a mod for COH (Europe on Ruins). Quite revolutionary.

How so ????
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Cranialwizard on March 11, 2012, 05:49:09 AM
What does EiRR mean ???? And Im not sure what stance you are taking. You are saying Calliopes are OP ???

It's a mod for COH (Europe on Ruins). Quite revolutionary.

How so ????

You arrange your battalions and squads BEFORE the battle based on gains from former battles. You can keep vet for your units after the battle and use them for other battles. Once you lose a unit you lose it for good. You start with no HQs or buildings, it's all based on calling in your battalions.

It's kinda neat.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 11, 2012, 07:41:21 AM
Anyone wanna play EIR ???
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Cranialwizard on March 11, 2012, 07:56:24 AM
Anyone wanna play EIR ???
I Lol'd.

We're off topic, and As the OP has been answered I recommend closing this discussion.
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Pac-Fish on March 11, 2012, 07:57:54 AM
Anyone wanna play EIR ???
I Lol'd.

We're off topic, and As the OP has been answered I recommend closing this discussion.

I just figure I'd ask b4 this topic got closed :P. I know that's where its headed
Title: Re: Calliope OMG
Post by: Walentin 'Walki' L. on March 11, 2012, 10:02:46 AM
That it be.

#closed