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Balance Discussion / For the Balance team, Fix game mechanics, not units. Plz read balance team.
« on: January 23, 2010, 04:27:46 AM »
For balance team. Please take the time to read this, balancing this mod is not just about nerfing a bunch of units, you have to look at the layout of the army, which has quite clearly not been done.
problem 1, unlocking buildings
The mechanics of this game are horrible, you can build a barracks then tank depot that can straight away pump out some of the best tanks in the game? with no tecing in between? Every other army in the game has to tec?
Solution 1
Look at the wehrmacht, they can build two buildings to start with, then they have to tec to be able to build the next one, and so on.
Here is an idea for you, increase the cost of the Armory to 200mp and 35 fuel, make all upgrades in it cost MP and fuel instead of Muni (Muni is meant for the use of abilities, not buying them), so that the prices are like the Wehrmacht vetting prices, and change the cost of each upgrade in the Armory depending on how much they increase the effectiveness of what they are upgrading etc.
The Tank depot and WSC cannot be built until the Armory is, and the WSC now costs 200mp and 15 fuel, the IS-2 and artillery fire base cannot be built until an upgrade in the Armory is performed, a cost of around 100mp and 35 fuel. The IS-2 now costs 600mp and 120 fuel, and the artillery fire base now costs 450mp and 85 fuel to compensate. Strelky squads become unlocked after the Armory is built.
Problem 2, Doctrines and XP points
The Russian doctrines allow you to have late game units, such as the katyusha, much to early, and for not enouph XP points and for not enough POP or MP, did you also take into consideration that since Russians are constantly losing men, that they will be getting lots of XP points, meaning Russians can unlock their command trees very fast, their conscripts in mass can devastate infantry squads like that in an OP way! meaning more XP, faster.
Solution 2
re-evaluated the set up of some of the command trees, increase the XP points that are required to buy units like the katyusha or move it down a bit the doctrine ladder so it comes in much later on. Doctrine abilities like for the motherland and red tide now cost 50 munitions to use, just like for the fatherland, same goes for all other abilities like these ones.
problem 3, abilities and tecing
Free abilities? Just because Russian tecing costs are so munitions heavy does not mean you should give them free defensive artillery that can be used anywhere and be available from the first unit you build. First of all, tecing should not cost muni, it should cost fuel and MP, and abilities should cost muni, not nothing.
Solution 3
The command squads abilities cannot be used until the Armory has been built, and the arty strike now costs 125 munitions, charge and binoculars now cost 20 munitions each. Molotov's and all grenade like abilities must cost at least 20 munitions to use.
And like I said before, all the research that can be done in the armory must be changed so it costs Fuel and MP, as munitions is used for abilities, not research.
If this is implemented, then individual units won't need as much tweaking, this is the main reason why the Russians are so OP at the moment, I'm sure you aware but here is a list of every unit that is seriously OP.
OP Units
1.Mortar is not a mortar, but an extremely mobile artillery piece with no cool down that comes out after 5 mins, since its 120mm, it should do more damege than all the other mortars in the game, but right now its free 120mm arty.
2.The sniper is far too cheap, the price should be up'ed to 340mp like all other snipers.
3.Conscripts are simply to effective for their price, either Nerf their effectiveness so that 2 conscript squads can only just take out a grenadier squad (And once grens get vet, conscripts should not stand a chance). Or increase their price to 240mp, and increase their build time.
4.Conscripts capping speed must be reduced to .75
5.Igenerny capping speed should be 1.
6.Command squads and strelky squads should cap at 1
7.And gaurds should cap at 1.5
8.The t-70 and T-90 should cost 270mp and 30 fuel.
9. Russian super tanks should have a limmit of 1 at a time.
10. T34 should cost 400mp and 80 fuel.
11. The ISU needs a damege output nerf.
12. The katyusha neeeds to be a later game unit, and cost more MP.
13. Gaurds need to cost 375mp.
14. Strelky need to cost 280mp.
15. ISU, 1 time call in, 500mp.
16. Conscripts take up 5 pop cap, to prevent spamming.
17. the barracks needs to cost 200mp and 15 fuel, making it 100mp in the first place was just stupid and increases the chance for spamming of conscripts.
18. When the Russian HQ is destroyed, there is no ability to call in engins to repair it.
This is what is required for balance, not the nerfing of every unit.
Bugs
1. you can que up command squads, but only one will be finished.
2. Conscripts should show the amount of men they have left in their squad, ingerney also have this issue.
3. If Wher, PE, US or british capture a Russian weapon, then they cannot retreat.
problem 1, unlocking buildings
The mechanics of this game are horrible, you can build a barracks then tank depot that can straight away pump out some of the best tanks in the game? with no tecing in between? Every other army in the game has to tec?
Solution 1
Look at the wehrmacht, they can build two buildings to start with, then they have to tec to be able to build the next one, and so on.
Here is an idea for you, increase the cost of the Armory to 200mp and 35 fuel, make all upgrades in it cost MP and fuel instead of Muni (Muni is meant for the use of abilities, not buying them), so that the prices are like the Wehrmacht vetting prices, and change the cost of each upgrade in the Armory depending on how much they increase the effectiveness of what they are upgrading etc.
The Tank depot and WSC cannot be built until the Armory is, and the WSC now costs 200mp and 15 fuel, the IS-2 and artillery fire base cannot be built until an upgrade in the Armory is performed, a cost of around 100mp and 35 fuel. The IS-2 now costs 600mp and 120 fuel, and the artillery fire base now costs 450mp and 85 fuel to compensate. Strelky squads become unlocked after the Armory is built.
Problem 2, Doctrines and XP points
The Russian doctrines allow you to have late game units, such as the katyusha, much to early, and for not enouph XP points and for not enough POP or MP, did you also take into consideration that since Russians are constantly losing men, that they will be getting lots of XP points, meaning Russians can unlock their command trees very fast, their conscripts in mass can devastate infantry squads like that in an OP way! meaning more XP, faster.
Solution 2
re-evaluated the set up of some of the command trees, increase the XP points that are required to buy units like the katyusha or move it down a bit the doctrine ladder so it comes in much later on. Doctrine abilities like for the motherland and red tide now cost 50 munitions to use, just like for the fatherland, same goes for all other abilities like these ones.
problem 3, abilities and tecing
Free abilities? Just because Russian tecing costs are so munitions heavy does not mean you should give them free defensive artillery that can be used anywhere and be available from the first unit you build. First of all, tecing should not cost muni, it should cost fuel and MP, and abilities should cost muni, not nothing.
Solution 3
The command squads abilities cannot be used until the Armory has been built, and the arty strike now costs 125 munitions, charge and binoculars now cost 20 munitions each. Molotov's and all grenade like abilities must cost at least 20 munitions to use.
And like I said before, all the research that can be done in the armory must be changed so it costs Fuel and MP, as munitions is used for abilities, not research.
If this is implemented, then individual units won't need as much tweaking, this is the main reason why the Russians are so OP at the moment, I'm sure you aware but here is a list of every unit that is seriously OP.
OP Units
1.Mortar is not a mortar, but an extremely mobile artillery piece with no cool down that comes out after 5 mins, since its 120mm, it should do more damege than all the other mortars in the game, but right now its free 120mm arty.
2.The sniper is far too cheap, the price should be up'ed to 340mp like all other snipers.
3.Conscripts are simply to effective for their price, either Nerf their effectiveness so that 2 conscript squads can only just take out a grenadier squad (And once grens get vet, conscripts should not stand a chance). Or increase their price to 240mp, and increase their build time.
4.Conscripts capping speed must be reduced to .75
5.Igenerny capping speed should be 1.
6.Command squads and strelky squads should cap at 1
7.And gaurds should cap at 1.5
8.The t-70 and T-90 should cost 270mp and 30 fuel.
9. Russian super tanks should have a limmit of 1 at a time.
10. T34 should cost 400mp and 80 fuel.
11. The ISU needs a damege output nerf.
12. The katyusha neeeds to be a later game unit, and cost more MP.
13. Gaurds need to cost 375mp.
14. Strelky need to cost 280mp.
15. ISU, 1 time call in, 500mp.
16. Conscripts take up 5 pop cap, to prevent spamming.
17. the barracks needs to cost 200mp and 15 fuel, making it 100mp in the first place was just stupid and increases the chance for spamming of conscripts.
18. When the Russian HQ is destroyed, there is no ability to call in engins to repair it.
This is what is required for balance, not the nerfing of every unit.
Bugs
1. you can que up command squads, but only one will be finished.
2. Conscripts should show the amount of men they have left in their squad, ingerney also have this issue.
3. If Wher, PE, US or british capture a Russian weapon, then they cannot retreat.