No Retreat

[Chancellor]

Somehow I am getting a notion that the next patch will change the Soviet gameplay structure dramatically.  Will "no retreat" be removed, and if so, will there be anything done to compensate / adjust to this change in gameplay?

I understand that in the end its all up to the devs, but personally I really liked the "no retreat" (which is compensated with low upkeep / reenforce large squad size infantry units) for the USSR, because that's what made them unique.

[Versedhorison]

I doubt it will since it is an ongoing problem and to be honest I like the no retreat option as it makes the game interesting.

[Paciat]

Its not like I know anything but I think that "change the Soviet gameplay structure" is about teching.

Maybe there will be some unlocks that cost fuel so IS-2 wont apear too early.

[Zerstörer]

We're doing one thing at the time because of the significant changes we're introducing to the gameplay. 
In the patch 'currently in development', the changes will be mostly regarding teching,unit combat abilities.

The patch afterwards WILL introduce the Retreat feature and veterancy but we'll leave the OF factions as is for the moment. These are the poll results and there is NO further debate to be made with regards to that and we're just moving ahead with the agreed changes.
Further changes will of course be made to a number of things(mostly costs really) once again to accommodate these features to ensure the faction continues to improve the balance quality

[Chancellor]

How will this veterancy be implemented?  Bought like Wehr or earned like Americans?  Also will there also be stat changes to the USSR units to improve balance?  I'd particularly like to know if anything is going to be done about the ppsh; en mass its really strong, I think the gun is slightly stronger than the Mp40 close range and stronger than the Mp44 mid range, and the troops using them have really low initial cost and also low population upkeep imo.  Of course, it might be too early to tell and perhaps development hasn't even got to that stage yet, but I'm just sitting here wondering.

[Akalonor]

Just wait and see,
Patience is a virtue,

 There I saved a developer's breath.hehe

[nbeerbower]

If we do decide to link the Retreat Ability with Veterancy, it will be the 1st Vet which unlocks.

[Paciat]

I'd particularly like to know if anything is going to be done about the ppsh; en mass its really strong, I think the gun is slightly stronger than the Mp40 close range and stronger than the Mp44 mid range. 

The long range acc and dmg is the same to all SMG - 0,1.
All relic smgs have 0,2 meduim acc. PPSH and MP44 have 0,3 meduim acc.
All relic smgs (exept pios and volks) have 0,75 close acc. PPSH has only 0,6 while MP44 0,9.
MP44 deales 7 dmg while all smgs (ppsh included) 5dmg.

For most firearms (exept pios and volks) long range is up to 35, medium up to 17 (closer than half of max range), close up to 8 (closer than 1/4 of max range).

PPSH Strelky are deadly at medium range. Dont run too close to MP44/volks MP40 squads.


Check out
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2295.0
for more EF (1.03) stats. Most of them are correct (up to date).

[Chancellor]

I'd particularly like to know if anything is going to be done about the ppsh; en mass its really strong, I think the gun is slightly stronger than the Mp40 close range and stronger than the Mp44 mid range. 

The long range acc and dmg is the same to all SMG - 0,1.
All relic smgs have 0,2 meduim acc. PPSH and MP44 have 0,3 meduim acc.
All relic smgs (exept pios and volks) have 0,75 close acc. PPSH has only 0,6 while MP44 0,9.
MP44 deales 7 dmg while all smgs (ppsh included) 5dmg.

For most firearms (exept pios and volks) long range is up to 35, medium up to 17 (closer than half of max range), close up to 8 (closer than 1/4 of max range).

PPSH Strelky are deadly at medium range. Dont run too close to MP44/volks MP40 squads.


Check out
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2295.0 [nofollow]
for more EF (1.03) stats. Most of them are correct (up to date).

Hey thanks for the info mate.  I guess its a mental effect or the ppsh just sounds stronger or something.  Mainly its not even the strength of the gun, its the quantity they can bring.
Maybe ppsh vs mp44 1v1 mp44 wins, but usually I find myself facing ratios of like 1 kar98 vs like 2 ppsh (a ratio of around 2-3 ppsh engie squads for every vet3 gren squad)...  I play T2 terror and I find myself unable to support my tanks with grens late game.

[Zerstörer]

Use the...underused LMG42 on the grens...it does miracles vs soviet infantry...

Also, the PPS squads will have 1 less member which will reduce somewhat their over efficiency...

[Chancellor]

Hey, thanks for the fast reply Zerstorer!     Well, I find it extremely hard in 1v1 games to find the munitions for lmg42.  The munitions priorities go to the panzershrecks first or else I wouldn't be able to support my say...Panzer 4 against a T76.  (Even a T34 vs Panzer 4 alone 1v1 is a big 50/50 risk for the Panzer 4, but that part is fine by me; I like the tank balance atm)

I usually cannot consider upgrading a lmg42 until after at least 3 panzershreck upgrades spread around 3 squads (Panzershreck has low accuracy).  I don't give my squads more than 1 upgrade each or else the chance they will drop those precious weapons becomes too high.

So, provided I have 4 squads of grens, 3 of those squads having a panzershreck upgrade, only then can I have the luxury of upgrading a lmg42; and even then its just 1 lmg and a few Kar98s vs a whole lot of ppsh, and if I get really unlucky and happen to drop the lmg42, there goes my infantry!  All in all, the 1 kar98 vs 2-3 ppsh ratio does happen to me for the above reasons.

In my experience the ppsh Strelky are only a little too strong, and they were never much of a problem.  The main issue is the ppsh ingenerie for some reason.  They're really low cost low population upkeep compared to the grens, and are more durable than Strelky for some reason.  Add in retreat to the mix and 2 of those squads each become like a low cost/ low upkeep / low reenforce Thompson Ranger squad on steriods with the ability to detect mines and cut the wire that guard my flanks.  HMG42 doesn't really work because a good Soviet will be able to flank you from at least 3 sides with these guys, or get a Major.

I know this is just my own personal experience, but T2 Terror is a widely used strategy in 1v1, so I might not be the only person experiencing this.  Thanks for reading!

[wordsmith]

So, provided I have 4 squads of grens, 3 of those squads having a panzershreck upgrade, only then can I have the luxury of upgrading a lmg42;

Off topic: did you consider using at least 1 Pak instead of 1 Gren from 4? This way you could save 75ammo, the cost for Grens and for Pak is practically the same. Pak has better punch, accuracy and range. And it is always a good practice to mix different units. I know that Pak is more micro intensive but you just need to remember that Pak is better to keep behind, like sniper and it should be fine...

[Chancellor]

@Wordsmith
ofc I use the PAK, but 1 PAK and 1 panzershreck isn't going to cut it; you need at least 2-3 shrecks to prevent circle-strafing, and you can't really rely on the PAK for offensive operations to support your tanks. and as it currently stands I can't protect my paks against these engie dudes.  They're like a 200 munition investment for a stronger version of piospam that is immune to mines wires and have 4 men per squad each instead of 2.