Riggs vs Killar

[Riggsman]

We just played a game on Langres and you may see all the issues we talked about in this particular game.

As SU i had the upper hand from the beginning, with Prop doc I had all those Cons upgd Smgs, pushing Landsers easily, getting very quick Armor on the field while he had to tech to Pak with 3 buildings plus 2 extra upgrades. I had enormous amount of Artillery options; non doctrinal SU76 barrage, Observer Arty, Heavy Mortar plus Howitzer and Gow. I didn't even bother to get Katyushas.
Foxholes are like joke, Straffniye can kill units inside without even Molotov, Elephant comes too late and doesn't make so much change. With sprint i can simply pass the Ost mines and have no damage. Etc etc.

I had another game before this vs Tom ( ZenithEF) and I was OSt that time, the game was exactly same like this one, simply a  downfall.

Anyway, you ask replays here you are.

P.S : Replay file updated, first one was wrong.

[Tom]

Not much to say. Just auto-win and floating 1000+ MP with SU its common sense especially with Propaganda.

Propaganda doctrine needs to be stripped-down of some gear. It has it all, from 76mm light arty, to heavy arty (105), katiushas, Gay brit sprint  you name it. Red tide another ability that owns.

[Alexander 'ApeMen' J.]

i will watch both replays tomorrow

thx for uploading them



but i can already say that the internal version is very different from the current gameplay
@riggs
dunno why you removed me from steam
it was way easier to chat there and discuss some things

[Riggsman]

Well I have people on steam who plays COH, you were playing Dota only.

[Riggsman]

I guess the main issue is; Ostheer needs more combined arms to deal with Soviets, while Soviets can simply pump same types of infantry much cheaper and without so much upkeep issue. And in order to get those combined arms, Ost simply needs fuel and fuel to unlock this and that all the time. SU is more Muni/ Manpower based army, they build their buildings quicker, get cheaper units with muni upgd smgs, rifles, at rifles etc and game flow is much better than Ost at the moment.

There's a way to stop or let's say, slow down or control SU which is in my opinion, play the Ostheer like Wehrmacht- simply sticking one side with fuel and muni income and defend it until you get proper AT. If you spread early game, you'll fail and face t34s very quickly even without a PAK. On the other hand, Ost needs vet by fighting and Wehrmacht is superior with this strat because of their purchased vet. So it's not offensive as it seems but like this you may have a chance to win but needs really high focus, min. mistakes and patience. However, this will make every game frustrating like you play vs PE as USA.

I actually wanna hear what Johnny says, he has some nice angles about this game too. Killar as well.

[Alexander 'ApeMen' J.]

i cant watch the replay vs killar
when i load the replay i got a crash to desktop

but i watched the replay vs tom and will discuss this with darc

thx for your feedback

[Riggsman]

Check the new file, the first one which I uploaded yesterday was a vcoh one. My bad.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

We just played a game on Langres and you may see all the issues we talked about in this particular game.

As SU i had the upper hand from the beginning, with Prop doc I had all those Cons upgd Smgs, pushing Landsers easily,

Will be fixed, cons receive huge combat boni with the pps (+25% bonus accuracy, +15% max hp which were supposed to be removed for the 1cp version of not a step back (in the beginning Not a step back was moved to 2cp instead of 1, and cons didn't cut it that late against mkb landsers). The bonuses simply slipped through our testings.

getting very quick Armor on the field while he had to tech to Pak with 3 buildings plus 2 extra upgrades. I had enormous amount of Artillery options; non doctrinal SU76 barrage, Observer Arty, Heavy Mortar plus Howitzer and Gow. I didn't even bother to get Katyushas.

Prop will get less arty in the next version, and t3 will be redesigned for ef.

Foxholes are like joke, Straffniye can kill units inside without even Molotov, Elephant comes too late and doesn't make so much change. With sprint i can simply pass the Ost mines and have no damage. Etc etc.

I'll take a look on foxholes. Elephant is quite powerful from my experience. My guess is that you found it weak because you were massively loosing already so you didn't have the chance to come back.

I had another game before this vs Tom ( ZenithEF) and I was OSt that time, the game was exactly same like this one, simply a  downfall.

Anyway, you ask replays here you are.

P.S : Replay file updated, first one was wrong.

Okay, thx, will have a look on it asap

[Walentin 'Walki' L.]

Foxholes are like joke, Straffniye can kill units inside without even Molotov, Elephant comes too late and doesn't make so much change. With sprint i can simply pass the Ost mines and have no damage. Etc etc.

I'll take a look on foxholes. Elephant is quite powerful from my experience. My guess is that you found it weak because you were massively loosing already so you didn't have the chance to come back.

They will probably (if everything works correctly) undergo a major change. They will more or less work like a hull down ability for tanks.

[donthateme]

...

As SU i had the upper hand from the beginning, with Prop doc I had all those Cons upgd Smgs, pushing Landsers easily, getting very quick Armor on the field while he had to tech to Pak with 3 buildings plus 2 extra upgrades. ...

...

And thats exactly the problem IMO. Researching Tier 1, 2 and 3 plus all these upgrades which are directly needed to get ATG is way too much. ATG is such an essential key-unit and has to come faster/easier and shouldnt be so expensive to get, no matter what AT-Inf or other AT-possibilitys can be build/used next to it.

In general, building all kind of AT-Inf vs well played vehicles/tanks is pretty much a waste and idiotic IMO. AT-Inf has a support-function only and is designed to be the first soft-conter vs emplacements and light vehicles (Halftracks, Scoutcars, Jeeps etc.), not to be the first "hard-conter" vs T70 and T34.

Edit: And the game is fun to watch btw!