Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Author Topic: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.  (Read 6269 times)

Offline Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2013, 05:59:48 PM »
neg zeal? HF fighting vs strafing runs or tank guns.

just a quote from the forum:

Q: Snipers now have a negative zeal radius of 20 (same as pioneer antispam) where recived accuracy modified by 1.5x for each additional sniper"
That means that if i have 2 snipers they will get insta raped by strafe?


A: No, but it does mean that 2 snipers together will have a 112.5% chance of being countersniped while moving, and an 84% chance of hitting either of those 2 snipers on retreat, compared to 75% and 56% in vanilla respectively.

This fact is ridiculous. Having to rely on a 25% luck chance to countersnipe is a joke anyways. Why not simply go the easy fix route and raise the moving-accuracy bonus against sniper armour to 100%. 100% countersnipe chance, gg. Easy 2 second fix. No need to rely on additional random modifiers etc.

Still doesn't change the fact that you can't counter snipers without bringing snipers of your own and snipers still follow the 1shot-1kill philosophy which is retarded by itself.

Anyways. Received accuracy means higher chance to be killed on the move, by tank shells, by arty shells and also by strafes. Imo the received accuracy zeal doesn't change anything except for making allied snipers even more OP than before. Axis can't blob because sudden-strafe and allied are free to still spam snipers.

Roos were made useless by nerfing them to oblivion. But that's good for the game, since they're broken because they gave you a strong infantry force and all of a sudden you could kill tigers with a button-piat kangaroo for 300mp and 20f.

Abuse is abuse and has to go.

Offline Riggsman

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2013, 06:35:45 PM »
If it's so easy to fix why don't you fix then? Why EF has crippled sniper units?

Offline Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2013, 06:37:53 PM »
If it's so easy to fix why don't you fix then? Why EF has crippled sniper units?
Because we don't change vanilla balance.

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Offline Riggsman

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2013, 06:52:18 PM »
So current Ost or SU sniper is on par with Wher or USA sniper? One can cloack other needs Vet2. That's balanced?

Offline Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2013, 07:05:27 PM »
Let's see... Soviet snipers are paired with gaz43, which can detect snipers, deal more damage than normal jeeps by default and you can call in conscripts as meat shields.
Ostheer Snipers can be covered with landsers, and their kubelwagen also is superior to schwimmms/bikes.

They still can achieve their perma cloak when becoming vet 2, which is fairly fast overall as both ostheer and soveits require ~25% less experience than USA units to level up. They still can be moved around while cloaked without decloaking, so you can still countersnipe if necessary.

So, where's the problem? Why should we make Ostheer/soveit snipers just as abuseable as vCoH snipers? Just because Wehr/US sniper mechanics are broken we also need to break them to compete with US/wehr snipers?

Ah yea, good idea. And while we're at it we should also fit a button ability for soviets and a treadbreak ability for Ostheer vehicles so they can compete with the OF factions, too. ::)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 07:07:28 PM by dArCReAvEr »

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Offline Tom

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2013, 07:18:23 PM »
I wonder if there was no COH2 for inspiration how would the OH/SU sniper look like?
knowing what you want is half the battle

Offline Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2013, 07:20:25 PM »
I wonder if there was no COH2 for inspiration how would the OH/SU sniper look like?
EF didsn't even remotely took insipration from CoH 2 sniper mechanics. CoH 2 mechanics with the clown car/soviet dual sniper team is even more retarded than vcoh... >:(
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 07:22:25 PM by dArCReAvEr »

Abuse is abuse and has to go.

Offline Enrique 'Blackbishop' E.

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2013, 07:34:19 PM »
It was inspired by other great mod, Modern Combat, so thanks Darkbladecr, Spoon, DMz and Beefy^ for thinking about something similar first in their mod :)... lol.
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Offline Riggsman

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2013, 07:36:56 PM »
First of all current Conscripts are not meatshields anymore but murder squads. Second Landsers cant defend even themselves, how sniper will be covered? Yeah they move with cloak but you can't uncloak them to move faster until vet2, plus SU sniper is more viable then OST because of current Prop doctrine which allows Cons become more overpowered, sweeping anything on the field. So sniper is not that big issue atm but Ost teching and early-mid game SU actually.

Offline Riggsman

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2013, 07:39:57 PM »
It was inspired by other great mod, Modern Combat, so thanks Darkbladecr, Spoon, DMz and Beefy^ for thinking about something similar first in their mod :)... lol.

Didn't play for a year I guess, if it's changed I can be wrong but last time I checked, Chinese Sniper was owning USA sniper. USA sniper was simply useless because of cloak mechanics while Chinese one was simply Vanilla sniper.

Offline Alexander 'ApeMen' J.

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2013, 07:41:17 PM »
@riggs
thats not true
you can uncloak your snipers to move faster, but you have to stay in cover to claok again



Offline Riggsman

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2013, 07:44:25 PM »
Well I just checked OSt sniper, he can't. Uncloak button is inactive, if you know any other trick tell me.

Offline Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2013, 08:07:27 PM »
It was inspired by other great mod, Modern Combat, so thanks Darkbladecr, Spoon, DMz and Beefy^ for thinking about something similar first in their mod :)... lol.

Didn't play for a year I guess, if it's changed I can be wrong but last time I checked, Chinese Sniper was owning USA sniper. USA sniper was simply useless because of cloak mechanics while Chinese one was simply Vanilla sniper.
Modern combat has enough other problems aside their snipers. Also, the imbalance is occuring because both factions use a different sniper design, and afaik the US sniper can't run around while cloaked without decloaking.

On SU/OH both faction utilize the same mechanics and the sniper counters actually work by themselves. Still don't see a problem with it.

Abuse is abuse and has to go.

Offline Riggsman

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2013, 08:34:01 PM »
But my question is not Counter sniping. Ofc you can countersnipe if you wait, halt and shoot the other but my issue is the impact of the sniper in the game. Ost sniper can't deal much damage because of powerful cons spam with quick smg upgrades, instant sprint with CS while Landsers doesnt even have automatic weapons. Sniper has to make MP damage, it's hard inf counter but now it can't. Sniper is not only abusive unit as it's defined by some but it's a type of teching and force teching unit as well. It's a stone in your shoe. Besides that fact, the current sniper cant shoot and run back uncloaked untill vet2 and Ost sniper needs more kills than SU sniper because of low xp gain from Cons. Anyway, it's still an issue in my book.

Offline Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.

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Re: My take on simplifying the OH and increasing play fluidity.
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2013, 08:47:25 PM »
Sprint will be removed for soviets. landsers will be buffed and cons arer tweaked to only be useful while standing still in cover. all i can say on this issue is that we'll have an eye on the snipers and will tweak stuff if necessary.

Abuse is abuse and has to go.