Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Author Topic: faction v faction balance  (Read 13864 times)

Offline Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2014, 09:03:38 PM »
I agree that PE vs Soviet or OH vs Brits is not fairly but just one point:
You say Landsers are too strong vs Rifles. If we make the Landsers weaker then they are balanced vs US but not any longer vs Conscripts.
The point is: Its not possible to Balance EF Factions vs every other Faction.
And like many people said already, we dont change vanilla Factions.
You're wrong on that one. Each weapon has target tables which adjust weapon damage and accuracy against certain armourtypes. You can make Landser rifles deal 0 damage to riflemen while dealing 1000 damage to conscripts, just by modifying the damage multiplicator from 0-100. It's entirely possible to balance every single weapon against every vehicle and infantry unit there is. The problems with the OF factions are their designs, not really the stats. But still, if we modify some stats here and there they make the play level more even.
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The only thing we can do is:
Finding and testing out strategies for EF Factions vs OF Factions.
Thats my opinion.

It is possible to win with every Faction if you play right. Yes, PE and Brits are broken at some points but you can counter every Unit
even if its difficult. If you cant handle a PE blob -> get vehicles, lay down mine, get MGs and so on.

Like I've said before. When we played a few PE vs soviet games in the internal it didn't look too bad. Strelky performed quite well against pgrens, same with most vehicles (t34-85 rape PE). But again, we don't really have players who have a lot of experience when playing OF factions on our team, so our testing capacities were quite ... limited. :D

And yea... brits vs. Ostheer isnt balanced because we had noone playing as brits at all. All I did was some basic rifle testing against AI and it looked okay, so I didn't really bother with messing around with brits.

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chaosval3

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2014, 10:57:08 PM »
I do agree that different builds works against different factions which allow the factions with more units to shine imo. For instance, you don't see that much T-34/85 ( as far as I remember) usage against Ostheer because of the scary Panther and Tiger I, but against PE with all these light vehicles, ooohhhh man. It's like Christmas, but then every match.

Offline maddogb

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2014, 11:06:24 PM »
And yea... brits vs. Ostheer isnt balanced because we had noone playing as brits at all. All I did was some basic rifle testing against AI and it looked okay, so I didn't really bother with messing around with brits.

ai brits is nothing like a "real" player,  the avre just eats thru squads of men with the bucket bomb thing and its nearly impossible to kill when hulled down unless you can get behind it and then my m8 usually has firefys or AT emplacements to stop you doing tha.
One thing OST is really short here is a quick response method to get at the brit ACs that can capture points.

Offline Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2014, 06:58:19 AM »
And yea... brits vs. Ostheer isnt balanced because we had noone playing as brits at all. All I did was some basic rifle testing against AI and it looked okay, so I didn't really bother with messing around with brits.

ai brits is nothing like a "real" player,  the avre just eats thru squads of men with the bucket bomb thing and its nearly impossible to kill when hulled down unless you can get behind it and then my m8 usually has firefys or AT emplacements to stop you doing tha.
One thing OST is really short here is a quick response method to get at the brit ACs that can capture points.
Of course it's nothing like the real player. So what? If noone can play them all I can do is tweak infantry rifle damage against tommies, and that's about it.

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Offline maddogb

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2014, 01:07:47 PM »
Of course it's nothing like the real player. So what? If noone can play them all I can do is tweak infantry rifle damage against tommies, and that's about it.

I'll try and get some replays, pity i never thought of that before, had a good one from last sat which is our traditional nite i should have saved.

chaosval3

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2014, 02:12:05 PM »
Always save replays of long or decent games. Even if you lose or don't use them, they can still be of service to us :).

Offline krupp steel

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2014, 10:10:11 PM »
As a player who had a consistent 25 win streak as brits in 2v2 automatch (stopped at 25) and also an expert at PE (was #2 on the leaderboards for 2v2 auto at somepoint) I will be happy to test these things out with you provided there is time for you guys and me to play.
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chaosval3

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2014, 04:39:34 PM »
Should be interesting. Wonder if Darc could stream some Soviets vs PE and OH versus Brits then.

Offline Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2014, 07:50:56 PM »
Ogawd pls no  ::) stahp dude..

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chaosval3

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2014, 11:30:05 PM »
Lol, well there is that then. Fek Brits and PE XD

Offline krupp steel

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2014, 04:03:22 AM »
Lol, well there is that then. Fek Brits and PE XD
Only the most skilled and understanding players are not biased and glued towards 2 factions, but also play all four (or six including EF) so they have the best perspective of things and how one unit fares against another. For example, someone glued to Wehr will think the Brits is all that easy, while on the very other side, the Brit is just barely able to keep up with the Wehr player. Things are not always as they seem unless have a full perspective on all sides and their situations.
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chaosval3

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2014, 04:28:39 AM »
Of course, but there are also many players who understand the spectrum of the 4 (6 with EF then) factions and share the opposite opinion. I know some of them myself. I am far from a pro, but I do share that view. You should also define the 'best' players. One who wins tournaments? One who understands all factions but does not win tournaments due to lesser micro, macro, awareness, stamina etc... A player that focusses on one faction and wins against the others. A player who can play all factions, but master none against others? We would rather stick to the easy route I think. It's just like the old saying we have in the team, a good player isn't always a good designer and a good designer isn't always a good player. Then again, I really think Darc should try some vs PE and Brits stuff haha. Rage shall ensue.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 04:30:39 AM by chaosval3 »

Offline maddogb

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2014, 11:58:36 AM »
Lol, well there is that then. Fek Brits and PE XD
Only the most skilled and understanding players are not biased and glued towards 2 factions, but also play all four (or six including EF) so they have the best perspective of things and how one unit fares against another. For example, someone glued to Wehr will think the Brits is all that easy, while on the very other side, the Brit is just barely able to keep up with the Wehr player. Things are not always as they seem unless have a full perspective on all sides and their situations.


agreed but then again getting matches against the top players is a rare event and we mostly have to do with whoever is available.
Another thing that can affect the outcome is maps, playing the same map can be one way of determining which side is suited to that map rather than an actual powerful side or skilled player for this reason i tend to focus on alsace moselle, which is IMHO one of the most even maps available when played as a two player.

Offline maddogb

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2014, 01:20:10 PM »
this discussion made me wonder is it possible to give "conditional" weapons or doctrines, ie allow OST flak 88 or multiple elefants only when playing against british?

Offline krupp steel

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Re: faction v faction balance
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2014, 06:14:19 AM »
No conditional weapons. Our best bet is to create specific versions of armor for each EF faction and their units instead of using the ones from vCoH/OF. I know its a lot of work, but it is the only way, no modifying the original factions.
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