Soviet Over Powered?

[PersianImm0rtal]

What do you think? I think over powered

[yondaime604]

People saying there overpowered is confusing.

The tanks they have are terrible against inf (Even the anti inf tanks). And they are so highly inaccurate.

Early game: They are very good, they have good ways to overpower the enemy, but are no means OP (they are just good @ start).

Mid game: Very balanced, maybe a bit underpowered, there tanks are just not really effective at all.

End game: This is where they need a buff, tank vs tank they win, but everything else they lose at.

I have played multiple games already, (over 10) and noticed that they do have troubles @ the end game portion of a match.

Maybe it's just me, But I am rank 15 so I have played this game for a long time.

So right now I vote a bit underpowered.

[Crowsabove]

well their suppose to get worse bc the wehr rolls out its vet by then. I mean most of what the wehr does early to middle game anymore seems to be holding on till they can get vetted up. Tanks are just terrible vs inf though haha

[Saavedra]

I just played Panzer Elite at Vire River Valley with a Wehr ally against Soviets.

The Soviet players just took their half of the map, blocking the river passes with sandbags and tanktraps, fortified the center where my ally and me tried to attack (three trenches, two MG nests and the first AT gun moved there soon as it could).

I think both of us realized as soon as we saw the blockades that they were trying to stop us from advancing while they teched up. A few minutes later, my ally and me rolled a total of four Panthers straight into one of their bases. Before the three or four AT guns they had rolling around were moved to counter this (it could have worked, we had to go through three other AT guns first and got hit hard), they dropped.




Soviets are not overpowered at all. I think the mod devs took too seriously the fears of people who thought the Sovs would be OP. Sure you can spam conscripts at first, but they are pathetic. Your only early game advantage is the comand squad. And soon as you start blocking passes and entrenching yourself to tech up, your opponent knows what you´re up to.

Frankly, I think the Sovs could do with having a few armory upgrades reduced in cost. The extra rifles one in particular. Maybe the Ingenery too, but I haven´t played enough yet and I don´t know if that would give some Sov players the double flamers, which sound brutal.

[BurroDiablo]

We've taken some balance concerns on board and there will be a patch coming out soon, possibly tomorrow. Main balance change will be the Soviets starting resources, they'll be getting lowered. Other changes will be made apparent in the changelog.

[PersianImm0rtal]

ty for the update!

[GermanSteel]

I think they are somewhat balanced.

It is true that conscripts are awful, however an Ingenery+WSC strat with Urban Fighting is quite decent. At only one cp you get the amazing double flammenwerfer which used properly will seriously damage just about anything.

The WSC gives you the PTRD guys who can really put the hurt on PE vehicles like no other faction can early game, and the sniper team provide typical sniper support. And you only need 75 fuel total (25 of which you start with) to get to anti-tank guns.

I definitely wouldn't say Soviets are overpowered. I find that they can struggle against tank spam, because they have no handheld anti-tank. Their only AT options are the anti-tank gun, the IS-2, and the SU-85... two of which are expensive vehicles. The IS-2 is ridiculously expensive and has a shorter range than a Panther even if it would win that short range slugfest. The SU-85 is also at 100 fuel, and I've only used it once where it was killed in about five seconds after a panther shot took off 90% of it's health in one go (wtf?).

To me, in a game between two good players the Soviets actually have the advantage in the early game whereas the Axis have it in the late game. The Axis have always been the lategame powerhouse due to German Steel, and since the Soviets are extra vulnerable to it that does not help matters at all. On the other hand, PTRD+Urban Ingenery can make strong pushes against both PE and Wehr early game.

And every time I see someone say 'Use MGs against Soviets early game!' I automatically know that they have no semblance of skill. It does not matter if I cannot retreat my infantry; I don't blob and the Soviets have the least trouble of any faction in reality. They have swarms of infantry good for flanking in multiple directions, they have an officer that gives you both heroic charge and officer arty from vet 0, they have 250mp snipers, they have double flammenwerfer available....





Edit: Well not anymore. Now that the devs are nerfing their starting resources and apparently some other things, get ready for a shitty early game too. GG devs, you do balance worse than Relic. Listening to the masses the moment the mod comes out? Sad. It does not matter how much you nerf them too, some morons will always keep calling them overpowered, and since you guys are so fearful of having your faction called overpowered you will nerf them into complete uselessness.

[yondaime604]

I agree with you 100%, nerfing there starting resources is dumb.

The main point is for the good start, now they get rolled start mid and endgame, makes no sense at all.

Tanks are terrible and need there cost either lowered or just get buffed all together.

MG's are okay vs soviet, but soviets have a lot of ways to get out of suppression, the early snipers for example own MG's a new asshole.

Please devs, don't go crazy right now, they need to be tweaked, they are underpowered then anything right now.

Makes no sense

[Saavedra]

I agree with German Steel. It is too early to think about any balance patches. Have in mind it takes days or even weeks for people to come up with different tactics and counter-tactics. Give it some time before changing the faction.



ONE thing I would suggest, though, is limiting the number of normal ingenery you can train at the start so Soviet players won´t go hunkering down to tech up. Three squads should be enough. Once the SN-42 upgrade is bought, you can remove that limit so they can perform their combat roles en mass. Meanwhile, the Soviet player will try to be either offensive, or balanced, rather than "lol I´m a Brit with cheaper AT".

[GermanSteel]

This is just my opinion, but I would remove Ingenery trench building completely instead of limiting the number of squads. If you nerf the number of squads, then the most viable strat becomes not so viable. 200 munitions is WAY too late to do anything with Ingenery, especially if you intend to get flamethrowers.

[BurroDiablo]

@ yondaime604 - Do you have a replay of you winning against the Sovs as Wehr or PE (Human)? I'm intrigued to know why you think they're underpowered...

[GermanSteel]

A replay proves absolutely nothing, the Soviet player could be lesser skilled or higher skilled. For you to think that means you don't know much about balancing, which is quite depressing.

[yondaime604]

BurroDiablo I don't have a replay, but I could get one if you really need one, but it won't mean much because the skill could be different from both players.

And I have already explained why I think they are underpowered, I think the biggest is A: the cost of the tanks + the costs on a few upgrades are a bit high.

I dono it may just be me, but 3 people in this thread alone have commented that they are underpowered, while the people who are not commenting have said they are overpowered just by clicking one button.

Shows who cares more imo

[Saavedra]

This is just my opinion, but I would remove Ingenery trench building completely instead of limiting the number of squads. If you nerf the number of squads, then the most viable strat becomes not so viable. 200 munitions is WAY too late to do anything with Ingenery, especially if you intend to get flamethrowers.

That´s why I suggested reducing the munitions cost of some upgrades. Extra rifles, for example, shouldn´t be so expensive. The cost for ingenery, while better justified (they seem to be pretty damn powerful), still seems too high to me.

Also, why is spamming Ingenery a viable strat? You do that? I would think spamming conscripts would be better.

[Forlorn]

i agree i think they should hold off on a patch. When i first started playing against the soviets i thought they were overpowered as i got beat pretty badly the first few games. But the more i play and develop better strategy and tatics the closer i come to beating the soviets and it feels more balanced. Anyways i say hold off on the patch for atleast a week or 2 and let people get a better feel for the game. But i will say the Soviet A.I. absolutely wipes the floor with the Axis A.I. so that may need looked into.