The SS

[Griptonix]

When you listen to the chatter of a volksgrenadier or panzergrenadier squad I think you can hear someone say, "Not just anyone can join the SS!" Great addition to the game as a doctrine though.

[Saavedra]

when screaming on the Russians how they raped German women etc...First they were Soviets, then, it is true there were rather few individuals who lacked discipline. Rapists were shot on sight. German women could ask for abortion if they said they were raped. Also, most of the soldiers were older, cause the young generation was killed by nazis. Also, even if there was some raping, it is too little to tell the truth. If Stalin was as merciful as Hitler was, I wonder if instead of raping, some 15 million or more German civilians would be killed or more for more Lebensraum. When western barbarians kill, its hushed up, but western propaganda seems to equalize some raping with one of the biggest mass murders. Also the anti-Russian russophobic propaganda implies, no matter Jugashvili was the leader, it is always bad Russians. Cold war "over"...not. They scream about Jews being the innocent victims. But how many non-Jews died? Their lives arent more precious than any other. But theyre given attention by media...and who owns them...

Weren´t TWO MILLION German women raped? From small children to very, very old women? In gangbangs, with mutilations, using bottles, etc...?

I hardly think that could have been done by a "few individuals who lacked discipline". And that´s just the raping, if we want to include unwarranted murder and pillaging... hell, we can then extend this to the blockade of Berlin if you want, and add the people starving until the Western Allies got the Berlin Airlift going on at the cost of human lives because of the Soviet Government´s son-of-bitchiness. And how about Russian troops raping women just liberated from concentration camps?

Also, Jew lives are not more precious. It´s just that they were the most numerous group of civilians ever subjected to Government-approved (and backed and organized) genocide in a relatively peaceful environment. "Casual" rape and murder during war are standard, but turning genocide into a cold, merciless Government enterprise is very, very different.

not far away from where I live, SS rounded up civilians, some were shot, some were cut by saws used for cutting wood...

I´m sure the German people have tons of happy stories to tell about the Russian occupiers too.

this is just a part of almost endless stories of how the Vaterland was coool and the SS were real pros at everything...exceptionally at losing brains. Not to mention going to a hospital and killing everyone there.

Soviet soldiers were not much better, Russian propaganda was hardly any more merciful than the Germans´.

Also, massacring wounded people in a hospital was also done by the Soviet troops.





Honestly, Soviet troops have committed crimes every bit as terrible as the German SS have. You talk of "Western propaganda". I wonder if you´ve had a look at some of the Soviets´? Like the one that equated entering Russia with raping a soldier´s woman and which, Antony Beevor suspected, later contributed to the mass rapings in Germany by Red Army troops?

There was a time when the Red Army officials had to ask the propaganda writers to knock it down a notch on the hate speech. Does this tell you anything about what Soviet troops were doing in occupied countries?

[TheReaper]

if we want to include unwarranted murder and pillaging... hell, we can then extend this to the blockade of Berlin if you want, and add the people starving until the Western Allies got the Berlin Airlift going on at the cost of human lives because of the Soviet Government´s son-of-bitchiness. And how about Russian troops raping women just liberated from concentration camps?


I´m sure the German people have tons of happy stories to tell about the Russian occupiers too.

Yeah, in my country the "comrades" stayed more than 60 years, I can tell stories about the soviets. Maybe heared 1956's Insurrection, after there was a crude retaliation. The soviet troops never ever heraed the flush toilet, they wanted to clean the meat in the toilet. xD They called it "stealing machine".
All I can say that the Germans stayed here, there was as bad as the soviets, exept we were on the loser's side.

[TomaSkTemplar]

some of you people like to point indirectly that nazis werent bad because they didnt murder YOU or some of your family directly. When soviets did, warcrime blablabla. There is no problem when they murder others, but it gets new attention when it gets personal. Dont think I favor the commies after the war they (communist party of Czechoslovakia) stole almost all property and land of my grandgrand father who worked in the US mines for 24 years and all he worked for was stolen. Burgeouis kulak or whatever was his ...ˇmarkingˇ. Now should I hate? Should I hate this one stole this land of ours, etc etc...I dont. Some of you do and thats a problem imo. It shouldnt be forgotten, so it doesnt happen again easily. Because history is easily spinned to match the propagandist aims. Propaganda doesnt mean it has to be lies as well, but it has its aims.
I dont put every German of that time into the nazi basket. Funny thing is you are ideologized to hate the red army no matter it saved lives of many people. You dont want to realize that. They, all of them = evil end of story for you. You may read some opinion and not multiple sources.

Anyways, I do not believe of the rapes being so frequent, its just part of self-pity propaganda overblown to hate Russians in general, = asiatic animals, blabla. Some didnt see civilization till they came to the front...

Perhaps they thought theyd execute poor soldiers based on some poor accusations. If nothing else and somewhat true, they were well humiliated. Instead of being mass murdered in return. What do you think? Stalin wasnt just after all. His NKVD "executioner" squads seemed to have no conscience, so for them, if given order they would obey. I say Germany got very little for what it deserved. Stalin seemed to have higher plans...not revenge eye for an eye. So the equal evil to Hitler wasnt in the end as mad. (or so propaganda of todays nazis wants to believe Stalin and Hitler are same evil as their ideologies...to demonize USSR and Russia of today)

Also about 1956...in Hungary it is perceived somewhat differently. Because even with communist regime, they did not get rid of the Great Hungary of single Magyar nation syndrome. Not even today as you can see. But I hope I didnt hurt anybody´s national feelilings, because when I mention something like that, I always end up flamed.

[TheReaper]

No problem, TomaSK Templar, what I write is facts, I dont give any emotional to the forum. ANd I think we gone off-topic. The victors write history. It's not about rapes it's about the totaritarian regimes. If you go to Columbia, or East-Korea you find the same goverments like Stalin's or Hitler's. In Slovakia or Romania I think have bigger sovinism, than in here, Hungary, so don't worry about that.

"He who controls the past commands the future. He who commands the future conquers the past. " - George Orwell

[Tico_1990]

TheReaper, I think you are refering to "North-Korea"
Secondly: both the Hitler and Stalin were evil people and they ordered nasty stuff to be done. That being said, the stuff that was done has also been blown out or proportions on a number of occasions by propaganda, something which has been done on both sides.

Nice quote from 1984 btw, although not entirely correct if memory serves me right.


That being said: Can we PLEASE get back on topic? Thank you in advance.

on topic: I do not see any good reason for including the name SS with a unit. It does not fit into the general CoH style. If a unit is recognisable as a possible SS unit, than those who want, can see it as that, and those who find it offensive don't have to see it as that, very simple.

Cheers

[Seeme]

We already have the ss, Storm troopers and some pe things, so I think we should put it in the obsteer just like they did with other fractions.

[TheReaper]

TheReaper, I think you are refering to "North-Korea"

That being said: Can we PLEASE get back on topic? Thank you in advance.

Yes I thought of north Korea, thanks the correction. The quote was copy/pasted from here: http://www.saidwhat.co.uk/quotes/famous/george_orwell/he_who_controls_the_past_commands_1493

And yes we need to stay on topic, totally agree with that.

[Akalonor]

We already have the ss, Storm troopers and some pe things, so I think we should put it in the obsteer just like they did with other fractions.

I agree , something like
 Osten Kommandant :         An elite officer from Germany's finest joins your troops , his Sturmtrooper body guards are ready to take on all challenges.
several things hint at SS , " Germany's Finest" could be an elite division , or the SS , Stormtrooper's could be the SA , which is the SS.

[Happycat]

I don't see why the SS troops shouldn't be called as such, the
SS are already mentioned several times in the single-player campaigns and random soldier chatter.

[HyperSniper999]

I don't see why the SS troops shouldn't be called as such, the
SS are already mentioned several times in the single-player campaigns and random soldier chatter.

But you're not playing as them, sometimes they may be allied, but you aren't actually playing or using them.

[Versedhorison]

There are SS units and SS doctrines in the BoTB mod.

[Pauly3]

listen to Rommel...SS will not be included (at least not by the name of SS)
also Griptonix, you have a strange signature that could lead people to odd coclusions  (like you were a SS fanboy )

[PetikeHUN1984]

listen to Rommel...SS will not be included (at least not by the name of SS)
also Griptonix, you have a strange signature that could lead people to odd coclusions  (like you were a SS fanboy )

+1

[Saavedra]

I don't see why the SS troops shouldn't be called as such, the
SS are already mentioned several times in the single-player campaigns and random soldier chatter.

But you're not playing as them, sometimes they may be allied, but you aren't actually playing or using them.

Check the lapels on the Storm Troopers from the Blitzkrieg doctrine. "SS".

OMG IF YOU PLAY THE BLITZKRIEG DOCTRINE YOU ARE A BABY-EATING NAZI SCUMBAG!


(Well, baby-eating sounds appropriate with Storm Troopers being the dingos of CoH)