Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Author Topic: Let's talk Brits...  (Read 8894 times)

pariah

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Let's talk Brits...
« on: April 21, 2011, 08:33:15 PM »
Ah yes, the British army. My most loathed Company Of Heroes faction. For the other 3 relic armies, i have developed a pretty good starting style, but with the Brits, i just don't know what to build. Not to mention that their veterancy and healing systems encourage blobbing.

They are certainly the most unique faction, which makes them so much harder to learn, so i ask you guys, what should i do at the beginning? What units should i build first, and in what order? When should i order my Field Support Truck, and then Armor Command Truck? When should i move my H.Q.? How do i avoid blobbing my units? How do i effectively deal with armored cars and tanks? What do i do with my Captain? If anybody could give me some advice on any of these areas (or any other British areas) it would be much appreciated.

Offline IJoe

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2011, 08:39:47 PM »
Why even bother? Brits are a failure!  ;D

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pariah

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2011, 08:40:59 PM »
Touché...

Offline Enrique 'Blackbishop' E.

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2011, 09:11:56 PM »
Use RMC :P. Way better than Normal Brits ;D.
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Offline SnappingTurtle

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2011, 09:25:25 PM »
Take all I say with a pinch of salt, I'm pretty inexperienced at CoH. Actually I only really like CoH from afar, like a football fan likes football even if he doesn't play it.

But anyway I'm going to fire off some general suggestions:

Moving the HQ. That should probably be done as early as possible (of course you need enough units to defend your base. Early Bren Carrier can be good for pushing back enemy squads) to capitalize on a high resource point from the get go. There is of course the danger of getting pinned by an MG at your base. This is a tricky balance. See brits play Rails and Metals and they always go for that high point on the right side, but it's right in the middle of the two sides. It takes a good mix of moxie and reservation. But, ideally it should be on the highest resource point possible. Of course, Brits don't have an FHQ or a halftrack to reinforce from, so you need to factor in the HQ as an FHQ too. AND, it's the only way for them to lock down/OP sectors. Putting it in a defensible spot is a good idea, with green cover and/or some buildings nearby. Try to spread out your different trucks, they each bring in resources. I think the support truck and armour truck bring in fewer resources than the HQ truck but you can buy upgrades to make them better, as well as speed upgrades to make your side as a whole more mobile.

You could say the command system for Brits encourages blobbing. Well it does encourage keeping infantry together, but that doesn't mean you can't micro. Brit infantry are best used in cover. Remember to use PIAT ambushes for example to get some nice rear armour hits on advancing tanks. Recon squads don't need a lieutenant to move through enemy/neutral territory at full speed (and I think they have a small detection radius. BTW, if an enemy mine is detected, any sapper squads can defuse it, not just minesweeper squads) You can use these for small scale flanks. Or in the later game, separate your infantry into mixed bags with a lieutenant behind each one for full scale flanking manoeuvres. Lieutenants are fragile, so you should try to keep them back. If you can, don't rely on the "follow unit" ability because they usually run out of cover or something. Try to micro them individually and keep them back; they have decent command range. And try to rack up the vet, same as SU command squad.

AFAIK, the lieutenant is like an offensive officer and the captain is a defensive officer. I think the captain only has effect in friendly territory, increasing attacking and defensive power to units within that sector, but I often see it used in replays along with the main blob. Probably to try and gain vet. I believe once a captain gains vet 3 you get a command point and some extra goodies.

I could go on all day with this. Suffice it to say that Brits are probably a more complex faction that most consider. You probably wouldn't get that impression from the average Brit player, and the most effective way to play Brits may well be the noobiest, but you don't have to be that way with them.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 09:31:09 PM by SnappingTurtle »
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Offline Paciat

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2011, 09:41:54 PM »
Everyone remember theres gonna be some ToV changes. Stalking vet wont be as effective, Stuarts/Stags will avade Shercks and fire like M-8s. Roos will be nerfed, same thing with Stag 0.5cal.

I cant remeber where Ive read It (before ToV) but there were stats of what top Brit players do at the start of a 1v1 match (more than 100 battles analised). How often they build 3rd Tommy squad or a BREN carrier before getting T-2, what upgrades should Tommies have (like only 7% of Tommies wrere upgraded with nades vs PE but 47% versus WH, first Tommies allmost allways have BRENs even vs WH), etc.
Then there were build orders to standard German tactics and a scale (1 to 10) of how effective those build orders are.
Finnaly witch points to cap in what order on ranked maps and where to place trucks.

The British army was from the start created as a low on firepower, trained, Standard Operation Procedure army, motorized but slow and cautious (especially compared to US). Thats becouse most people saw it (the real WWII thing) that way and thats why I like it.

Im suprised Relic ballanced OF UK (not ToV) since everything (MP costs, retreat modifiers, early game depends on Truck deployment instead of different type of teching, tank uasge) they do is unique. But Im much more suprised how they ruined it in ToV. >:(

Offline Zerstörer

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2011, 09:47:21 PM »
Suffice to say I/we made the RMC to fix the following 'failings' that make Brits so unpopular.

-Slow movement and Lieut= blob ftw cause you can't flank(the most basic principle that made COH so unique)
-Uber resource bonus to compensate for the lack of speed and therefore capping ability
-Camping sim city
-NO FUCKING CHOICE AS TO HOW YOU TECH. Same old boring strat ridiculously predictable where all you have to think about is...is it a fast Cromwell or a fucking Roo? Only three tiers instead of 4
-Un-killable vetted brit infantry blob due to stacking vet

« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 09:50:18 PM by Zerstörer »
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pariah

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2011, 09:53:38 PM »
Thanks for the advice, SnappingTurtle. A couple of things:
I'm pretty sure Sappers without the Disposal & Detection upgrade can't deactivate Mines.
The extra Command Point you get from Lieutenant level 3 veterancy comes when i have already gotten everything from my doctrine, so it's effectively useless. To tell you the truth, actually, i don't think i've ever gotten a Captain to vet 3...
PIAT Ambush is annoying, because the idiots don't stay camouflaged.

Thanks for the advice, Paciat. I think the Kangaroo could use a price increase, which is certainly saying something, since the Brits are so dam expensive. Although i don't think the Staghound needs a nerf, though.

Blackbishop & Zerstörer, i do very much intend to use your new Brits when i am able.

Offline GodlikeDennis

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2011, 07:19:59 AM »
Starting queues
For Bren/BiB: Build tommy and cap closest point to base (have to because of slow movement). Recon section caps future HQ area. Second unit is bren that goes to the first built tommy squad and picks them up. HQs relocates to chosen area, builds LT and builds FS truck. Squad in bren upgrades to bren guns.

For 3 tommies: Build LT first while recon section caps future HQ area. As soon as LT is done, relocate truck. Build 2 more tommies. First is nades against wehr or brens against PE. Second is always brens. Build FS truck.

General tips
- Only build a stuart if your enemy is PE and he's using HTs. They get massive bonuses against halftracks but do pretty poorly against everything else. Go instead for a fast crom after your captain is built.
- Try not to build emplacements unless you really NEED to. They're usually a waste of resources against a decent player.
- Build a CCS (medic tent) near your HQ around the time you are building your FS truck. It will be invaluable throughout the game.
- A vet 3 captain gives bonus resources to the sector he's in. He also makes Brit infantry in his friendly sector EXTREMELY difficult to suppress and increases their resilience further. Victor target is useful against gren blobbing players if you have a priest on the field since it essentially doubles the shots it can put out. He gains experience from all units in the sector regardless of ownership but only applies his bonus to troops within friendly sectors.
- A tommy squad completely in green cover recovers from suppression faster than a single MG42 deals it. This makes them impossible to suppress.
- Detection and Disposal sappers move at full speed in enemy territories. You can use this to flank bunkers and plant charges on them, far easier than building a mortar in range or pummelling it with piats and arty. A creeping smoke barrage from an arty doctrine CCT or a smoke nade from a riflenade section can make this very easy. The charges are more powerful than those of commandos and will instantly kill even a defensive doctrine bunker.

Or you could just use RMC.
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Offline RedGuard

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2011, 07:51:46 AM »
also dont forget about arty doct and 1 sec lt. arty  :o ;D

cant stress how many times this has been a gamebreaker, in my experiences and im sure many others too
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pariah

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2011, 02:18:16 PM »
Thanks a lot, GodlikeDennis. But as i stated previously, i'll try the Eastern Front Brits when i am able.

And REDcommissar...
also dont forget about arty doct and 1 sec lt. arty  :o ;D
I have no idea what that means... ???

Offline SnappingTurtle

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2011, 05:45:34 PM »
Choose the Royal Canadian Artillery Doctrine and unlock Forward Observer Artillery (think that's the right name) and then officers can call in artillery barrages in the area around them (like SU Command Squad arty) except the Lieutenant's arty's first shell comes in almost immediately after it's called, suppressing/pinning the target blob. Then if they don't retreat, about seven more shells in very tight grouping come in in quick succession. Uber arty.
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pariah

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2011, 05:50:19 PM »
Thanks. Isn't that like 150 Munitions or something? I never really have the money for that... Plus you have to get the officer pretty close to the enemy, so unless he is behind something, such as a building, it's a big risk.

Offline SnappingTurtle

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2011, 06:43:54 PM »
Theoretically it does have it's flaws. You should try and find some replays featuring its use at gamereplays.org/companyofheroes and see if you think it's overpowered or not.

P.S. Getting the officer close enough isn't as challenging as it sounds when he's got 5 tommy squads in front of him :D
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pariah

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Re: Let's talk Brits...
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2011, 06:56:59 PM »
Thanks for the link, but where do i find the videos? ???