[1.4.0.0] Everything RBS

[Cranialwizard]

Poll is biased.

price is biased 

Oh for fucks sake will you two stop arguing and come to an agreement? 

[Seeme]

Poll is biased.

price is biased 

Oh for fucks sake will you two stop arguing and come to an agreement? 

Are they arguing?

I don't use red banner strelky. I figured its way easier just to tech Shockys for a way more better infantry and earlier tanks.

[Otto Halfhand]

I don't use red banner strelky. I figured its way easier just to tech Shockys for a way more better infantry and earlier tanks.

RBS is my lowest priorty upgrade. I use it only to equip strelky with DPs for rear area defense of my outposts. I seldom employ Strelky at all in the role of line infantry. Why bother? The Shoot on the Scoot DPs the SG and NI obtain are so potentially useful Strelky are obsolete. Perhaps someone got confused and switched the upgrade costs for RBS and SGs?

[Chancellor]

Guys, its about the same price as BARs.  After the research Strelky can access the most powerful weapons package in the game, and also there might be a reenforce cost reduction as well.  Just trust Dennis on this one.

[cephalos]

well, I wouldn't call this 'the most powerful package' - either ppshs or DP-28 upgrade isn't making RBS even 50% as effective as NI or Veteran Guards. Not to mention that Guards get DP-28 with possibility to shoot during movement, and 4 SVT-40. They also have granates, which RBS lack of. Oh, and after Vet.1 they are totally unsupressible. Tell me, does any faction have so powerful unit like Veteran Guards? The prices of RBS and Veteran Guards in Armoury should be switched, IMHO.

[RedGuard]

its not the most powerful weapons package in the game, axis mp44 are they get the best stats and mods against elite armor - also BARS equip troops that get mahy other global upgrades and the best vet in the game

strelky have none of that, and they also have no AT ability like riflemen who get bars do. so theyre not versatile global best vet in the game troops. thats why its over priced

how come you dont realise this? dont ever compare strelky to riflemen plz, they're far from comparable. riflemen come from the start, have better vet, have better global upgrades, have target versatility both AI and AT ability, are cheaper and more survivable

strelky do none of that, thats why its overpriced - its sad really
spen 100 muni and 70 fuel just so you can buy weapons packages which cost another arm and a leg - and then your teching ability is ruined unless you were winning by a landslide. not balanced what so ever lol

[Otto Halfhand]

Granted the RBS and SG upgrade costs are inappropriate. Granted the cost for squad weapons/unit is lower than comparable costs for other factions. Granted that standard and upgraded Sov infantry squad sizes are larger than their opponents. - these are to some degree or another acceptable or fixible. The underlying problem is that the Strelky was designed with no anti-vehicle response. Add the option of a heavy weapons package or a PTRD  or KRAK upgrade and most of the gripes will go away. We have experts to balance it.

I don't use red banner strelky. I figured its way easier just to tech Shockys for a way more better infantry and earlier tanks.

+1

[Chancellor]

I'm gonna sound a bit like an elitist with this next statement here, but that is not my intent.

Here is a quote from DaRealRocky:
"A noob is a noob and doesn't understand the full potential of game mechanics and therefore can not talk about balance properly. Of course they are allowed to and give their opinion, it's just that their opinion isn't going to be worth much. Luckily enough balancing a game is not a thing of fair democracy. But a thing of knowledge and expertise."
So, it really doesn't matter if the vote is 19-4.

I'm wondering if any of you guys actually play at a competitive level.  When you guys start playing at higher levels, you'll see what I mean.  The RBS is fine, really.  I've used it and won with it, and all it does is make you choose.  It's kind of like how USA has to choose between BARs, M8, or WSC for a while.  Its the same thing here or with any other faction, you need to choose.  If its too cheap, USSR will be able to get the weapons packages plus support teams or T90 too quickly.

I'm just gonna end with that.  Its too hard to explain why why why to everyone who just doesn't play on the higher levels of play (which there's nothing wrong with, please don't misunderstand me here).

[Paladin88]

Oh another thing as well, Polls are very unreliable because the only people that vote in them are those interested in the topic .

On second note, wouldn't replays be a better argument than mere speculation? Bad micro skills means no amount of upgrades can do jack for you.

[Blackbishop]

The problem is that even if the upgrade is at the correct price, players usually skip it and go for guards/shock guards because they have best value.

@Yauz

If its too cheap, USSR will be able to get the weapons packages plus support teams or T90 too quickly.

I should admit I won't expected that, there's really a thin line here. I agree that the cost is too high but only makes everyone and their dogs use guards/shock guards strats.

[RedGuard]

I'm gonna sound a bit like an elitist with this next statement here, but that is not my intent.

Here is a quote from DaRealRocky:
"A noob is a noob and doesn't understand the full potential of game mechanics and therefore can not talk about balance properly. Of course they are allowed to and give their opinion, it's just that their opinion isn't going to be worth much. Luckily enough balancing a game is not a thing of fair democracy. But a thing of knowledge and expertise."
So, it really doesn't matter if the vote is 19-4.

I'm wondering if any of you guys actually play at a competitive level.  When you guys start playing at higher levels, you'll see what I mean.  The RBS is fine, really.  I've used it and won with it, and all it does is make you choose.  It's kind of like how USA has to choose between BARs, M8, or WSC for a while.  Its the same thing here or with any other faction, you need to choose.  If its too cheap, USSR will be able to get the weapons packages plus support teams or T90 too quickly.

I'm just gonna end with that.  Its too hard to explain why why why to everyone who just doesn't play on the higher levels of play (which there's nothing wrong with, please don't misunderstand me here).

Yeah well my ladder rank speaks for itself which was at lvl 14 solo auto when I stopped doing auto every day, the latest patch and ladder reset we're all back at lvl 10 but still kept my good number rank even after the reset. so my credentials are intact if they're ever in question im not a top 25 player but I can compete at a very high level, so I can speak for everyone else that doesnt have a voice or maybe opinion would be ignored if they didnt have someone whos known supporting them

and I agree with rocky too yauz, hes one of the few experts I enjoy reading his rants - but you cant discredit this poll the people have spoken and they demand change!

[GodlikeDennis]

Polls are very unreliable because the only people that vote in them are those interested in the topic .

This is very true. Also, the poll should be set up differently.

Rate 1-7 how much you agree with the following statement:
Regardless of whether you personally use something better, you find the Red Banner Strelky upgrade to be worth the purchase cost.
7- I very strongly agree
6- I strongly agree
5- I somewhat agree
4- I do not agree or disagree
3- I somewhat disagree
2- I strongly disagree
1- I very strongly disagree

And if you haven't used it much don't vote. This would be a more accurate poll. Either way, polls are inherently bad for judging things because there is always a sampling bias and something usually wrong with the question or options.

I don't use red banner strelky. I figured its way easier just to tech Shockys for a way more better infantry and earlier tanks.

This pretty much sums what I guessed the community thought of RBS. It's an excellent upgrade but there are currently better/more OP options available. It is not overpriced but rather everything else is just too good. This will not be true in the next patch where we have done more balancing and fine tuning than ever before.

To anyone who doubts that they're the best weapon packages in the game, have a check of the stats of DP-28 compared to Bren or PPSh compared to MP44/MP40. You'll find that the DP-28 is 62.5% better than the Bren and the PPSh is pretty much a more inaccurate version of the MP40 but you get 6-7 of them. MP44s are only good because their damage isn't mitigated by armour and they're excellent on the move. MP40s and PPShs actually outdamage them when stationary, especially against infantry armour targets.

[Chancellor]

Off topic, but Red what faction were you level 14 1v1 auto?  In your profile there's no auto ranking.  We should play 1v1 vCoH some time.  What's the name of your ranked profile?  It should already be level 10 1v1 automatch ranked?

Franky son, judging from the way you played in our last 1v1, I don't believe you are level 14 1v1 auto.

[RedGuard]

Off topic, but Red what faction were you level 14 1v1 auto?  In your profile there's no auto ranking.  We should play 1v1 vCoH some time.  What's the name of your ranked profile?  It should already be level 10 1v1 automatch ranked?

Franky son, judging from the way you played in our last 1v1, I don't believe you are level 14 1v1 auto.

haha I was waiting for someone to attack my ladder rank, rather predictable

>>how can you criticise my play when your strategy going into the game was to blob and abuse/exploit as many things as possible?
I certainly do not play like that, as you already know - but I guess you gotta do whats necessary to get the win
also, not to mention you were attacking me personally and trash talking me incessantly the very first time we met and in game, that was potentially a shoutcast game. which is not a very professional thing to do nor is it a sign of a skilled player. I'm sorry you felt the need to act so immaturely

we only played one game, so the both of us could only get a basic understanding of each others true skill levels - I've beaten the invincible dennis more than once but he'll probably say only because certain things in the past were OP like the su85 and strelky and that hes leading on the total win count which he is. but that should give me credability which cannot be discredited if nothing else

thats because my EF account is different, all my EF accounts are Red... something. my last vcoh account was chris0316 - plz feel free to check it out, I am an honest player. would you be willing to share yours as well? its only fair to question someones character and skill level if yours will be open to scrutiny as well
I am an american player, and a PE player(sometimes) - I dont play brits or wehr because they're broken

and quite frankly, I believe Im still ranked higher than you even though I have not played a ladder match on that profile in months - correct me if I'm wrong

[Chancellor]

Lets play vCoH when you have time then.  Keep it simple, I challenge you, and it is because I think you are lying about your 14.  There is absolutely no need to talk with your excuses, I see through them.  I'll add your Chris account.  Seems you are level 10 USA, with 73 wins 41 loss lol.