[1.4.0.0] Shock Guards

[Seeme]

Dose anyone else think that they may be a little to strong? They are almost impossible to kill. I seen blobs of Mp44s get killed from 3 of them. Even Whirlwinds cant seem to hurt them to much.But even more of a problem is that they are so spam able! I would recommended maybe having a higher cost. 1 on 1, they would beat Knights Cross. It would only be fair to make it slightly more costly.

Anyone else agree?

[Chancellor]

I think strength-wise, they were fine last patch.  In 1.302, they could already slightly beat KCH in a 1v1.  There was no need for a further buff with the DP guy, and no need to make them pay extra for their SVT semi automatic rifles either.  And yes, unlike KCH, they are spammable.

[RedGuard]

I always thought they were fine strength wise too, they take huge amounts of resources to tech to and actually are killed kind of easy by axis combined arms

[Chancellor]

I always thought they were fine strength wise too, they take huge amounts of resources to tech to and actually are killed kind of easy by axis combined arms

So do KCH?  Except...they aren't spammable?

[Seeme]

Well, once he dose get the resources to get it he basically kills every Inf out there. Tanks take forever to kill them, which means a fine target for AT nades (which are free). So basicly they almost win the game. For PE, its super not fair. They kill mp44 blobs and kill Marders quickly.

Maybe a Nerf anywhere would be good.

[RedGuard]

I always thought they were fine strength wise too, they take huge amounts of resources to tech to and actually are killed kind of easy by axis combined arms

So do KCH?  Except...they aren't spammable?

KCH are cheaper more survivable, and do alot more damage with mp44's. they also have heroic armor and are near invulnerable to snipers

KCH beat guards 1v1(and everything else) unless you invest resources in their shock guard upgrade and buy their rifles for a muni cost

[Seeme]

Even without the Svt upgrade, they are OP. 3 squads can kill any gren spam, PE spam, or Volks spam. They would win KCH spam because of there DPS Suppress them easily. I would post replays and videos, but I think you all know what I mean.

[Otto Halfhand]

Even without the Svt upgrade, they are OP. 3 squads can kill any gren spam, PE spam, or Volks spam. They would win KCH spam because of there DPS Suppress them easily. I would post replays and videos, but I think you all know what I mean.

SG's are very strong, no doubt about it. Perhaps if they are too much and need balanced the squad size can be reduced to 4 or 5 men.

[Desert_Fox]

Well...

IMO Guards and Shock Guards doesn't need big changes but only few little settings for be ok.

Today with, CS with PPs43 (no vet.), 1 Guard squad, 1 Shock Guard squad (both with SVT pack) I've killed almost 4 squads of Panzergrenadiers with StG44 in a super close combat, losing only 3 men of CS and 3 Guards.
Theoretically SVT should would be designed for a medium range fight, not for close combat, and with DP-28 S.Guards has an extra long range power.
IMO You Devs should decide if Guards are able to engage enemies from medium/long or shot distances, like KCH, designed for close combat.

Moreover, IMo the main problem of the Guards is that they are easly spammable (not seems, but it's true, I do that  ).
An Elite unit like Guards shouldn't be EASLY spammable without a big use of the risources (do not misunderstand, I'm not talking about nerfing or other).

This is my concept:

1) Armory upgrade for Shock Guards: It's ok, no changes needed.

2) Devs must decide if they want Guards for a close combat (but we've got RBS with PPsh41) or a medium/long range combat (IMO the best solution with SVT, but in this case Guards should be lose against StG44 blobs)

3) Increase the Guards cost to 380 MP and Shock Guards to 400 MP.

4) About abilities I've nothing to say, they're ok with a long cool down time.

[Paciat]

Or just nerf Guard frag granades to Grenadier stick nades to lower their close combat efectivness.

[RedGuard]

we're on top of it, theres some rather dramatic changes happening to guards right now.

[Max 'DonXavi' von B.]

What if we just swap the roles of Strelky/Guards?

This is how it is now:
RBS with 7 men and PPSH do a lot of damage to every kind of enemy infantry. DP-28 is still underused.
SG are veeery strong. Like Seeme described, no replay is needed to show that. With that one DP-28 and its nice supression, getting close is rather hard if your micro is bad (important for KCH, because of their very-good-at-short-range-MP44s).

We can solve both problems now with a simple exchange:

The Red Banner Strelky will be equipped with, let's say, 4 or 5 SVTs for better medium range capabilities by the Red Banner upgrade. Aditionally, an upgrade for 2 DP-28 is researchable, giving no alternative (PPSH is moved away from RBS), DPs price can remain at 50mun.

Guards however get the option, when upgraded to Shock Guards, to equip with PPShs for the whole squad. It would fit perfectly with the nades which force the SGs to get close to enemies. The upgrade cost to PPSHs can also remain at its current level.

Thoughts?

[Paciat]

What if we just swap the roles of Strelky/Guards?

Than we would have an allmost exact copy of US infantry company (Rifles+Rangers) that would still need detail balancing.
You can swap the roles of Strelky/Guards using DP-28 Strelky+Tankriders.

[Max 'DonXavi' von B.]

What if we just swap the roles of Strelky/Guards?

Than we would have an allmost exact copy of US infantry company (Rifles+Rangers) that would still need detail balancing.

Wasn't my intention. But well, Rifles can't upgrade with a light MG, eh?

[GodlikeDennis]

BARs are an LMG.