1.4 Tank Hunters

[Joshua9]

I continue to have two major issues with the very cost effective tank hunters, both of which could be lessened in their no-brainer effectiveness I suppose, with an actual use cost to their at grenades.

First, Base rapes are fast and devastating with these units when backed up with any of the powerful anti-infantry options.  At grenades kill bunkers and buildings in seconds, and the at guns finish whatever still remains.  These blobs move fast, and even if they come out slightly behind on the attrition war, they have devestated their enemy's production lines, and made it easy to rinse and repeat by already taking down the slight obstacle of the bunker.

Second, AT mines coupled with AT grenades make pushing these units off of key sections tennous at best...and it makes for hilariously effective anti infantry at choke-points...etc.  Without fail, an AT grenade chucked at an AT mine will detonate it and kill everything in the vicinity.  It's easy, the thrower has a very handy range, and it offers these units a dimension that given their very effective qualities in the specific areas of anti vehicle, seems highly inappropriate.

This doesn't even require preparation or planning.  AT mines laid for their intended purpose are already likely to be in the perfect opportunistic place to take out 2 or 3 squads of infantry....

by the way, I lost 2 vet-2 full health storm squads with about 225 munitions invested into them to a single errant shrek when I was sitting on one of those mines...this may be just as possible when dealing with PE mines and probably is, but it was rather frustrating.

It seems like applying a decent cost to use of at least 35 munitions a pop would go a long way to making these tactics a trade-off, rather than a free lunch.   

** on edit, 35 is probably too high given the muni upkeep...maybe 10 to 15 would be more reasonable

[Chancellor]

For the first issue:
Sturmovies, Guards, and Strelky are being balanced in the next patch, so they won't be OP anymore.
While he chose to invest his manpower and resources into his tank hunters, you could have invested your own manpower into more anti-infantry units like an MG or a mortar.

The result: So lets say, he has 60% combat infantry + 40% tank hunters, and an AT gun, while you will have 100% combat infantry and perhaps a PAK AT gun just in case.  Theoretically, considering equal micro and skill and the future nerf to the anti-infantry squads protecting them, you should win.

For the second issue, I don't think that's a very big issue, and it might even be a legit / valid tactic in CoH.  However, if a lot of people feel this tactic is unfair, perhaps AT mine health could be increased to avoid this?

[Blackbishop]

For the second issue, I don't think that's a very big issue, and it might even be a legit / valid tactic in CoH.  However, if a lot of people feel this tactic is unfair, perhaps AT mine health could be increased to avoid this?

Fair enough, i think this suggestion could be applied for the next version. Currently has the same hitpoints as a normal mine.

[Joshua9]

Those changes are definitely welcome

one of the things that makes tank hunters so effective is that the infantry that supports them is so good in small numbers, guards in particular, so a nerf to them would make me breathe a little easier. 

More hitpoints on the mines sounds excellent. Then it would at least require some set-up as a booby trap, depending on the number of hitpoints you're suggesting... though it would still be free to lob a couple early to prime it.

[Paciat]

For the second issue, I don't think that's a very big issue, and it might even be a legit / valid tactic in CoH.  However, if a lot of people feel this tactic is unfair, perhaps AT mine health could be increased to avoid this?

Fair enough, i think this suggestion could be applied for the next version. Currently has the same hitpoints as a normal mine.

Or lower its area of effect. AT mines were powerfull but they didnt use shrapnel.

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

Hm I don't think Strelky & guards are op, I found that against soviet elite inf "spam" snipers are the answer. In 3on3s vet 3 Snipers mixed in a PE blob really mess them up. I tend to get 3-4 snipers in a game and send them around the map with my allied PE players.

The support vet is useful at the start for mg42 (of which I get 3 atm) and vet 2 + 3 are quite easy to attain with the high resource incomes on 6 player maps.

I'm quite sure that decent sniper usage makes or breaks wehrs late game against soviets in team games tbh. Just beware of the Sniper Ace ^^

However: I think that base rapes with TH are really easy to attain, and its especially true for annihilation games. I've seen it used against me during 1.31 and its really devastating.

If its possible, you could try to change the modifier for TH at grenades against buildings and bunkers to like 1/4 of its current value. That should help a lot.

Base rapes should be possible, just not such no brain style and a bit harder to pull off.

[Joshua9]

I would like that change to at grenades against buildings also, and thanks for the tips...that's probably why I find mg's so ineffective against those rushes(doesn't even really stop the tank hunters in their tracks)...i rarely get support vet, and I guess the faster fire rate on snipers makes them much more effective even when the blobs are in full force.

[GodlikeDennis]

PE can do exactly the same with Teller mines, which are even more devastating. What people should try as Russians is laying an AT mine over a normal mine so the normal mine detonates when infantry are near, also exploding the AT mine which is much more powerful. Of course this makes it a 75MU mine but it's usually worth it.

[Otto Halfhand]

Second, AT mines coupled with AT grenades...and it makes for hilariously effective anti infantry at choke-points...etc.  Without fail, an AT grenade chucked at an AT mine will detonate it and kill everything in the vicinity. 

I don't think that's a very big issue, and it might even be a legit / valid tactic in CoH.  However, if a lot of people feel this tactic is unfair...

Seems like an exploit to me... but All's Fair in Love and Wargames. Soldiers have never really worried about inappropriate use of technology if it saved their butts... iirc In N.Italy some G.I.s stampeded a farmer's dairy herd over a suspected mine field. The result: Hamburger all over the highway and one very pissed farmer!

by the way, I lost 2 vet-2 full health storm squads with about 225 munitions invested into them to a single errant shrek when I was sitting on one of those mines...this may be just as possible when dealing with PE mines and probably is, but it was rather frustrating.

Maybe its not a good idea to deploy in a known mine field?

[Paciat]

by the way, I lost 2 vet-2 full health storm squads with about 225 munitions invested into them to a single errant shrek when I was sitting on one of those mines...this may be just as possible when dealing with PE mines and probably is, but it was rather frustrating.

Maybe its not a good idea to deploy in a known mine field?

Maybe youre ST squad was so heaviely equipped they triggered the mine that normally only tanks trigger.
Massed dead Stormtroopers allways make my day.

[RedGuard]

by the way, I lost 2 vet-2 full health storm squads with about 225 munitions invested into them to a single errant shrek when I was sitting on one of those mines...this may be just as possible when dealing with PE mines and probably is, but it was rather frustrating.

Maybe its not a good idea to deploy in a known mine field?

Massed dead Stormtroopers allways make my day.

oh yeah killin some krauts

[Joshua9]

hehe...they were pretty laden...as to "known" mine field....that's really the trick...one single mine in the corner of a map that takes 30 seconds to place...so I didn't know I was sitting on top of one until all my men exploded. 

As to PE, yes I was pretty sure it was a tactic employed, but thought that it was a little less certain given old scatter,(also do the PE grenades throw at the same range as the tank hunter grenades?  if so chock the question off to impaired senses in the heat of seeing so much red).  Still, the PE trick costs.  Doing this is so easy its  a matter of convenience rather than planning.  Also, I hope that mines can't be placed under or on-top of AT mines.  Didn't they actually make that impossible with teller mines at some point for this very reason?

[Otto Halfhand]

...do the PE grenades throw at the same range as the tank hunter grenades?  if so chock the question off to impaired senses in the heat of seeing so much red...

Excellent question. I often get the feeling that the other guy can throw farther than I can. Its probably sour grapes on my part. Aerodynamically an Amis frag would fly faster, a potato masher would fly further because of the longer moment arm and a molotov would have the slowest shortest trajectory in the physical world. In the virtual world? Does anyone know?

[Blackbishop]

...do the PE grenades throw at the same range as the tank hunter grenades?  if so chock the question off to impaired senses in the heat of seeing so much red...

Excellent question. I often get the feeling that the other guy can throw farther than I can. Its probably sour grapes on my part. Aerodynamically an Amis frag would fly faster, a potato masher would fly further because of the longer moment arm and a molotov would have the slowest shortest trajectory in the physical world. In the virtual world? Does anyone know?

I think they will in the next patch

[Paciat]

...do the PE grenades throw at the same range as the tank hunter grenades?  if so chock the question off to impaired senses in the heat of seeing so much red...

Excellent question. I often get the feeling that the other guy can throw farther than I can. Its probably sour grapes on my part. Aerodynamically an Amis frag would fly faster, a potato masher would fly further because of the longer moment arm and a molotov would have the slowest shortest trajectory in the physical world. In the virtual world? Does anyone know?

Try throwing an actual bottle, half of it being filled with any liquid.
The liquid will gather on the bottom of the bottle creating an "arm"  similar to potato mashers arm.