Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Author Topic: Tiger Ace  (Read 13726 times)

Offline Catblind

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Tiger Ace
« on: November 29, 2011, 05:54:32 AM »
Hi! I'm new to the forums but I've been playing EF for a while. It's a great mod.

Now, does anyone know how the Tiger Ace compares to the Blitz Tiger, Pershing, and IS-3?

I was using a Tiger Ace the other day in a multiplayer game vs the soviets, and although it proved to be a very good anti-infantry tank, it fell short of my expectations for AT and durability. An IS-2 and two nearly dead SU assault guns pushed back my full health Tiger Ace and killed it, despite the support of four shrek-grens. All shots penetrated my Tiger's front armor. I thought it would have more HP and armor than that, it's a freaking one-time-use Tiger Ace, not a Pershing.

Can anyone please provide this unit's stats? HP, armor rating, damage/penetration, accuracy vs infantry and tanks, max gun range, etc, in comparison to the other heavy tanks, namely the Blitz Tiger and King Tiger.

Also, does the long-range shot ability increase damage?

Would a Tiger Ace lose 1 on 1 vs an IS-3? How about an IS-2?

And for a little discussion, how would you use your Tiger Ace? Run it straight into the enemy like a Jagdpanther? Or use it as an anti-infantry version of a firefly, at a distance? I'm opting for the latter.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 06:02:14 AM by Catblind »

Offline Blackbishop

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2011, 06:51:52 AM »
From the design view of the game, a Tiger Ace should be better in a duel vs IS-2... why? Because that tiger is a special call-in(aka doctrinal and one time call-in) while IS-2 is a "normal" unit.

While testing balance this fact was reported(along with other observations), and the Balance Team is making sure the Ace is good enough for it's cost(Yes, it will be tweaked :P).

The long shot ability should fire a shell that always penetrates, same dmg, accuracy and probably a slight increment of range... and ofc, better penetration. Or at least that was the idea, probably it is a little bugged at the current release version ^^.

For the other questions, I think that will wait until the experienced players share their opinion ;D.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 07:28:16 AM by blackbishop »
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Offline Catblind

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2011, 07:12:56 AM »
Thanks for the feedback bishop!

Offline Blackbishop

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2011, 07:27:49 AM »
No problem, welcome to the forums btw ;D. Edited some parts of my previous comment to make it more readable :).

IS-2 is like an Axis panther, in fact it should be able to fight face to face vs the panther. Tiger ace has better armour than Tiger but worse than KT, has the same weapon that Blitz Tiger and is as faster as a Panther, HP is 1500 atm. This tiger is very fast, you should use it as spearhead of your vanguard forces, but also it cannot attack alone, it should always be supported.

IS-3 is like an IS-2 Ace :P.
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Offline GodlikeDennis

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2011, 07:43:23 AM »
In 1.5, IS-2s have higher damage modifiers vs Tiger armour than they should, so the Ace is very vulnerable to them. This is fixed in 1.6.

Tank                   Health           Armour type            Range          Damage           AoE         Speed
Tiger                  1064              Tiger                       40                 138                  Huge      Slow
Vet3 Tiger          1383              Tiger X 0.85            40                 138                 Huge       Slow
Tiger Ace (1.5)   1500              Tiger                       40(70)           138                 Huge       Fast
Tiger Ace (1.6)* 1300              Tiger X 0.9              40(70)           138                 Huge       Fast
King Tiger          2000              Tiger X 0.8              45                 165                 Small        Very Slow
Jagdpanther      1600              Jagdpanther           45                 165                 Small        Fast
Panther             742                Panther                  47.5              138                 Tiny          Fast
Pershing            990                Pershing                 40                 138                 Large       Moderate
IS-2                   1100              IS-2 (Pershing)       40                  150                Small        Moderate
IS-3                   1250              IS-3                        45                  165                 Huge       Moderate

*these are current stats only and subject to change.

For armour types, JP>IS-3>Tiger>Pershing.
The modifiers to Tiger armour mean that (armour wise), JP>KT=IS-3>Tiger Vet3>TA>Tiger>IS-2=Pershing

Tiger Ace would lose to an IS-3 but easily beat an IS-2 (in 1.6). It should be used to harass units that stand no chance against it, rushing in to deal a whole heap of damage and then retreating with fast speed. He can easily kill Shermans, T-34s and infantry before escaping. AT guns are also easy prey for the Ace with good speed and AoE. If it needs to fight an IS-3, he should weaken it first with some Crack Shots before trying to take it on head-to-head. He can use superior speed to kite.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 09:05:57 AM by GodlikeDennis »
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Offline Catblind

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2011, 08:40:58 AM »
Wow thanks! The chart is very helpful. That pretty much answered most of my questions.

But one more thing - if I recall correctly, the Tiger Ace was 800 mp up front, though I might be wrong. But considering the following...

- The Jagdpanther has 1800 hp, and up to 2282 hp w/ def vet. It costs 5 minutes of 100 mp drain, around 500 mp total. It has even stronger armor than the KT.
- The King Tiger has 2000 hp and cost 500 mp up front, at least in vcoh.
- The Tiger ace has 1500 or 1300 hp with inferior armor, compared to the aforementioned german tanks. It's gun range puts the tank well within firing range of other tanks. Crack shot can only be used so often. Even if this tank is fast, it is less survivable overall imo.
- There are so many other factors to consider. AI and AT competency, speed, accuracy, gameplay style, etc. I'm getting a headache thinking about it.

All in all, I want to know, will the cost be tweaked?

Also, can you find the Tiger Ace's firing rate?

Thanks again, I really appreciate your work here.



Offline GodlikeDennis

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2011, 08:54:37 AM »
Tiger Ace cost has already been set to 500MP upfront with -100MP/min drain over 5 min to match KT and Jagdpanther.

Tiger Ace fire rate matches Blitz Tiger. As said before, it actually uses the same weapon file. The speed is the single most valuable part of the Ace's arsenal. It makes it so it can strike whatever target it wants, usually something that can't fight back. It makes it very difficult to counter. It can also outrun any serious threat except perhaps T-34/85s or a vetted Pershing. Tiger Ace is the best anti-infantry weapon in the game and is very powerful against a variety of tanks.

*Edited previous post to include Jagdpanther
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 09:00:06 AM by GodlikeDennis »
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Offline Catblind

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2011, 09:13:59 AM »
Ah I stated the cost and HP wrong, huh.

Anyways, I'm satisfied! thanks for everything.  ;D

Will put your chart and advise to good use when I get the time to play EF again, haha.

Offline Tankbuster

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2011, 04:21:27 PM »
Speaking of the Tiger Ace, could the sound of the ace be that of the mini campaign tiger? It would make it feel more Ace-y  :P.
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Offline Walentin 'Walki' L.

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2011, 04:44:16 PM »
Speaking of the Tiger Ace, could the sound of the ace be that of the mini campaign tiger? It would make it feel more Ace-y  :P.

The generic Tiger 105 (replacment of Blitz Tiger) has the speech of Hauptmann Voss
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Offline Tankbuster

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2011, 04:56:16 PM »
Yes, that is what I am suggesting.
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Offline Mass Killer DL

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2011, 09:23:44 PM »
I would also like to see the Tiger Ace improved in some way shape or form as it just doesn't seem worth it in my eyes, you may as well go for the Blitz Tree to get a Tiger over and over rather than just one as a one time call in.

I tend to favour the Classic Tiger II otherwise known as the King Tiger over the Tiger Ace as it seem like it takes much more punishment and also has the 42 on the top of the turret.
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Offline stealthattack1

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2011, 09:33:55 PM »
i think the tiger ace is one of the fastest tanks. you are right, it doesn't have the armour of the tiger2, but i believe it has better accuracy and speed. this makes the KT easier to be ambushed, and caught by off-map/ calliope arty.


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Offline Mass Killer DL

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2011, 09:49:16 PM »
Aye it may be a bigger target but it can take a hell of a beating, when I was using the Tiger Ace most shells didn't seem to do damage they just bounced off it may be more accurate making it good in that sense but when your shells can't penetrate a T34 front armour it seems rather strange.

So I would personally use the Tiger II over the Tiger I, but saying that people may have different tactics than me you may favour a hit and run or simple circle and shell tactic, where as I prefer to have a hard hitting slower tank that can take the pain :p
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Offline stealthattack1

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Re: Tiger Ace
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2011, 10:12:20 PM »
well thats whats great about reward units. use em if you like.

Edit yes the KT is a beast.


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