Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Author Topic: Airborne = Useless  (Read 13691 times)

Offline Monos

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Airborne = Useless
« on: February 27, 2012, 07:58:26 PM »
I did it again, i tried to go airborne and OMG i lost soo hard because AirBorne are shitty and overprised.

Their don't do shit against infantry, they die like flies, they often die before they hit the ground if there is any superduperranged AA you didn't look for nearby. AND! Their Recoilless rifles have 10% accuracy.

They get two of the suckers and they hit once every 10 times. I'm serious, it takes 10 shots for them to hit anything... ONCE.
My opponent vehicle spammed T3 units, so i got AT-guns and Airborne. Darn riflemen does more dmg with sticky bombs, atleast the sticky hits and is more worth the ammunition.

Infantry gives you rangers who are the heroes of the American army, they are strong vs infantry and vehicles and they don't die so darn fast.

The only usefull thing with airborne is their sathel charges, which is too weak to destroy a bunker. And recoilless rifles does so little dmg and almost never hits the bunker so what is their purpose? Behind enemy lines opperations? They got killed by VET 3 pioneer squad that defended the 16ammo on semois.

I now know the reason why i never see these guys used in any shoutcasts nor replays with americans.
Only way to beat early puma + Pak strategy when you go fast bars is rangers + Riflemen. Airborne is the worst infantry in the game.

"Fire up so usefull for flanking"
Like those idiots will ever kill anything after you have flanked, un-upgraded volks beat them easily close up. Stupid useless bullshit.



Tip for total newcommers @ coh:

Want to play americans and take over teritory behind enemy lines?
GO ARMOR, choose raid and take over territory early with your jeep.
What about airborne you ask? They die faster than the jeep, so they are not worth it... NEVER
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 08:08:59 PM by Monos »

Offline Desert_Fox

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 08:02:30 PM »
Strange to read this...Airborne giga-blob is a very widespread tactic of USA players, due to the strenght of Paratroops vs veichles and inf.

You play against Human or AI?

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 08:03:09 PM »
trololol?

Offline Max 'DonXavi' von B.

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2012, 08:03:26 PM »
All what you say may be, but what would EF do against it? Nothing, because we decided not to change vanilla gameplay.

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Offline Monos

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 08:06:15 PM »
This ain't suggestion forum, this is strategy section. Strategy is, do not choose them.

You play against Human or AI? Does playing a test game vs AI with airborne affect their accuracy in any way?
I almost allways go infantry doc.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 08:08:09 PM by Monos »

Killar

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 08:11:01 PM »
maybe you use them wrong.

Offline Enrique 'Blackbishop' E.

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2012, 08:22:03 PM »
Maybe we can get an advice from an experienced player that has used plenty of times this doctrine? (Waiting for it...)
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...

Offline Monos

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2012, 08:44:57 PM »
maybe you use them wrong.

You mean like PIATS that get more accurate when in buildings? So i should place them in specific cover for bonus hit chance?

Actually PIAT's on the airborne would be more usefull since i stickied and destroyed engine\imobilized the fast PUMAS before hitting them with the recoilless. To bad my 3 squads of airborne had to be retreated at 1man left before they had hit the imobilized PUMA once. Thats 6 RR's total =P

Maybe we can get an advice from an experienced player that has used plenty of times this doctrine? (Waiting for it...)

Second that.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 08:46:56 PM by Monos »

Offline Enrique 'Blackbishop' E.

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2012, 09:10:13 PM »
IMHO using RRs to hunt pumas is not a good choice, because of the "phase-in" bug(I think that's how it is called). You should use them vs tanks.
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Offline Cranialwizard

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2012, 09:12:02 PM »
I did it again, i tried to go airborne and OMG i lost soo hard because AirBorne are shitty and overprised.

Their don't do shit against infantry, they die like flies, they often die before they hit the ground if there is any superduperranged AA you didn't look for nearby. AND! Their Recoilless rifles have 10% accuracy.

They get two of the suckers and they hit once every 10 times. I'm serious, it takes 10 shots for them to hit anything... ONCE.
My opponent vehicle spammed T3 units, so i got AT-guns and Airborne. Darn riflemen does more dmg with sticky bombs, atleast the sticky hits and is more worth the ammunition.

Infantry gives you rangers who are the heroes of the American army, they are strong vs infantry and vehicles and they don't die so darn fast.

The only usefull thing with airborne is their sathel charges, which is too weak to destroy a bunker. And recoilless rifles does so little dmg and almost never hits the bunker so what is their purpose? Behind enemy lines opperations? They got killed by VET 3 pioneer squad that defended the 16ammo on semois.

I now know the reason why i never see these guys used in any shoutcasts nor replays with americans.
Only way to beat early puma + Pak strategy when you go fast bars is rangers + Riflemen. Airborne is the worst infantry in the game.

"Fire up so usefull for flanking"
Like those idiots will ever kill anything after you have flanked, un-upgraded volks beat them easily close up. Stupid useless bullshit.



Tip for total newcommers @ coh:

Want to play americans and take over teritory behind enemy lines?
GO ARMOR, choose raid and take over territory early with your jeep.
What about airborne you ask? They die faster than the jeep, so they are not worth it... NEVER

Yea I go airborne often. You're definitely using them wrong.
"Balancers are 10 a penny"

Offline Monos

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2012, 09:26:00 PM »
IMHO using RRs to hunt pumas is not a good choice, because of the "phase-in" bug(I think that's how it is called). You should use them vs tanks.

So thats what up with the RR, a BUG. No wonder shit don't work. So Airborne = Go fast Motorpool or die?

Quote
Yea I go airborne often. You're definitely using them wrong.

Enlighten us with your wisdom.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 09:29:19 PM by Monos »

Offline Cranialwizard

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2012, 10:09:46 PM »
Airborne infantry have Airborne Armor, meaning that on the move they have a .75 recieved accuracy modifier. Their M1 Carbines also have the smallest moving accuracy penalty, meaning that on the move the troops lose accuracy the least of all American weapons.

That said, the Carbines are also the weakest of the 3 common American rifles because of it's range modifiers and other factors. (BAR> Garand> Carbine)

Because of this, you are correct Airborne suck against infantry. Not sure why you're intending them to be used like that.
HOWEVER,
Airborne should NEVER, EVER be the main stay of your army. They should support troops for your Riflemen regiments or for your WSC units with Flame Engineer support, you need some sort of better anti-infantry dominance to be able to use the Airborne efficiently.

Use Airborne as dedicated AT squads, like Rangers. The two are similar in that they have large upkeep and cost (Which is why they should NEVER be your main army) but have well-to-do anti-tank weapons and are similar in that they have the Fire-up and grenade capabilities.

Their differences are that Airborne can be called in anywhere, and can be reinforced anywhere. While fighting behind enemy lines (IE You call them in and you lose a couple guys) if you noticeably win an engagement then you can reinforce on the spot. Their Satchels are nice at destroying or at least weakening bunkers for a final blow and if MGs are your issue you can use Fire-Up to flank around it quickly and lob a grenade in there to try and decrew it. Your other infantry, supposedly pinned, will be able to assist you in moments.

Now for RRs. I don't even know where you got that stupid "lol 10%" figure but I can assure you RRs are fine. Perhaps you should try to focus fire and stop your squad before firing as most heavier weapons are more accurate when still in COH. It's just the way it works.

Compare them to Bazookas, for instance. Both have similar-ish accuracies (RR Comes out on top IIRC), however Bazookas deal more damage while RRs deal much more penetration. This makes RRs very effective at dealing with tanks that have lower health and better armor. The only exception really is the Puma which has the phase-bug, but I don't even see it all too often anymore. It still has plenty good capability to kill the Puma or AC as long as you don't charge at it like a moron and use cover to your advantage.

Of course a freaking vet 3 flaming pio squad is going to kill your airborne. Vet 3 Pios have Elite armor, health regeneration, he was likely in cover, and you must not have been paying attention. IIRC Airborne armor is in the same as Elite armor and takes more damage from flames. Not to mention Airborne are not good against infantry as stated above.

If you see an AA Vehicle or emplacement (Flak 38, Whirlbel, Puma, Ostwind) Why the hell are you calling in airborne ANYWHERE near it? ??? They are helpless while dropping so those tanks can just fire away as they drop. If you visibly see weapons like this then call them in somewhere more convenient.

Airborne are just as useful as Rangers I feel. Neither can be used as a main force of an army primarily because of reinforce cost and upkeep, along with the fact that rangers are suspectible to snipers and fire, and airborne offer more tactical use but do not fare so well against infantry. Use BAR Riflemen to help support your airborne and use the airborne to lob grenades, decrew MGs in both buildings and bunkers, disrupt capping operations and offer decent counters to vehicles.

If you really want to preserve your airborne RR troops build a Triage Center

TL;DR:

Airborne are weak unsupported as they are not viable against infantry. Build a triage center, and PAY ATTENTION to their health.
Keep them supported! Use BAR Rifles or combine arms help from WSC units and flame engineers.
Use the Fire-up and Satchels to your advantage to flank around weapons teams and make short work of enemy units garrisoned.
Call them in at strat points to help cut off enemy supply lines. They can be called in and reinforced anywhere.
Use their RRs to make short work of vehicles and tanks. Work well against most tanks except maybe the KT. Still a threat to Tigers. Sure they're expensive but if you're not looking to tech to 57mms or Hellcats it's what you have to do.
NEVER EVER CALL THEM IN NEAR AA WEAPONS.


Suggestion: Use Rifle Stickies to stop a vehicle cold and finish it off with RRs at range in cover. Works well against Pumas and vehicles of the like.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 10:18:24 PM by Cranialwizard »
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Offline Monos

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2012, 10:25:12 PM »
About AA, you don't allways know if it's buildt. =P
Btw, The PIOs did also shoot them before they landed, i didn't know they was there though. They were non flamer on their way to cap the point IIRC, could have had flamers though.

Triage center was up to heal mah snipahman, vet 3 sucka.

I faced almost exclusively PUMAs and used as said earlier (because they suck against inf) the airborne for AT, and mainly had them in Yellow cover. Still they almost never hit, and when they did the PUMA lost about 20% hp, meaning you need 5 hits if you get fucked over by the 5% bug. Through the whole game i hit the PUMAs a total of twice. Destroying none of them, or i did destroy some but that was with M10's i made after my Airborne had got roflstomped in 4 engagements.

Rifles will allways be the main of the army, they rock at Anti-inf and at some vet they throw sticky's far so your AT can get in. But using airborne as AT ain't working for me the same way as Rangers. Not even close.


Sticky'd puma still didn't drop. So that did not help, and rumor on the forums is that this Phase-Bug is crazy ass deadly.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 10:30:06 PM by Monos »

Offline Enrique 'Blackbishop' E.

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2012, 10:35:39 PM »
I got this from a CoH:O guide for Airborne, but still applies for CoH:

Quote from: BigFluffyTRex
They are[squad of paratroops] very useful against bunkers. One satchel charge doesn't quite destroy a bunker, so you'll need to shoot it first with your recoilless rifles once or twice. Do not attempt to throw satchel charges at bunkers with MGs inside them, if the MG is firing at you! Paratroopers in fire up mode are unable to retreat for about 10 seconds after throwing a satchel charge, leading to them being cut down by the mg before the satchel goes off - or by any supporting units afterwards.

Note also that airborne troops are NOT a counter to puma armour cars - recoilless rifles will mostly just "phase through" pumas, causing no damage.

Where paratroops shine is knocking out damaged tanks, and supporting your own. They have the best infantry anti-tank weapon in the game, with the longest range. With fire up, you can chase down wounded tanks and finish them without the risk that using your own tanks to do this incurs.

Source, I know it is kind of outdated but still :P.
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Offline Pac-Fish

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Re: Airborne = Useless
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2012, 10:38:30 PM »
You know the last time you were here we told you about the "phase through" bug that RR suffer from. I think you need to revise your strategy, not de-fame the Airborne doctrine. Even if Paratroopers do suck (which they kinda do :P) there are still 5 other abilities you can choose from. There will always be abilities in a doctrine that aren't really useful and are semi-situational. Airborne are situation in that they are (kinda) good flankers and okay AT. Use nades (if you have it upgraded or the muni) as they are pretty powerful. And you can drop them behind lines to flank or decap and harass. And as Cranial said, they are good vs damaged tanks as they are usually guaranteed to penetrate, meaning you can finish off a tank.

You play against Human or AI? Does playing a test game vs AI with airborne affect their accuracy in any way?
I almost allways go infantry doc.


It doesn't matter whether its Human or AI, the stats will still be the same. It kinda sounds like you play vs comp.

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