Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Author Topic: Soft Strategy for PE in EF v1.60  (Read 1880 times)

Offline Otto Halfhand

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Soft Strategy for PE in EF v1.60
« on: March 28, 2012, 07:57:52 AM »
Hi guys!
I've been on sabbatical from EF for 6 months. Loaded v.1.60 two weeks ago. I like the Sov makeover in 1.60 ... Especially as a Kampfgrupper! Strategically I see many opportunities for crushing the Bolsheviks in the mud. I love fighting in the Rain.

I wish to share a strategy for PE tailored to take advantage of the v1.6xx Sov. Faction It is not intended to be a strat. It is geared to the early game. Consider it as a Skirmish Phase. It is not really a good fit for the Anti-tank Doctrine though it can be adapted. It is not particularly suited to 1v1 play. It requires aggressive play but does not propose aggressive engagement of the enemy. Damage don't destroy and force a retreat. They'll be back but you'll have more time for your mission and a superior OB when they do.
 
As a Sov Player I have three gripes with v1.6.01. There is a bias against Soviet Vehicular Development. The teching development is highly predictable and presents many tells that PE is particularly suited to exploit. The Sovs have no Armored Cars for recon and must infiltrate to obtain it. PE is particularly suited to exploit these conditions.

NOTE: WE ARE SPEAKING OF RESOURCE COLLECTION TIME, NOT BUILD TIME. A 25 FP/min gain rate is an unadjusted number

The primary objective of this strategy is to create a force to Destroy an enemy base. Your secondary objective is to disrupt the Soviet Fuel Supply. To implement these objectives your goal is to prioritize obtaining PzV Battlegroup 235 FP are required to do this. It will take at least 10 minutes to acquire this much fuel. STOP! Review your elapsed time from your replays. If you regularly win games in 20 minutes or so you don't need a Panther Battle Group. Pick another goal and prioritize it. Full PG development requires 240 FP(correct it). AFV fuel costs will be what they be. Rest assured the Sovs will have something to say about how much fuel can acquire and how you will have to spend it.

The good news is v1.6xx Sov Tech Development Fuel Requirements are inefficient. (I think there are too many constraints on the process, just my opinion). You do not need total map control. 60 % control is probably adequate. Find a Fuel gain value that moves you towards your goal and doesn't give you too many units to micro. Since you are saving up to advance your goal you will normally have a fuel reserve to deal with unpleasant surprises. Do use your reserves as you need to. You are a KampfGrupper. You know how to improvise! Now get out there and disrupt the fuel supply. You don't have to capture a point  just decap and run Decap SPs and munis when they will break the lines of communication or set you up to do so. Use camo or Fallschrim to decap, boobytrap if you can, Although if you dont have boobytraps for PGs yet you might hold off for your next target if it is juicier. (Exception: If you have Scorched Earth decap, boobytrap, cap, scorch, run. If the enemy engages while your capping stop,scorch and run). Remember it takes less time to decap a low resource point<med<Sp<VP<high point(correct me if I got the order wrong). 

Intelligence gathering: tells. Gather intel while your disrupting the enemy. Deploy a Funkwagon and lock it behind your lines. If you can steal some resources fine; but use it to identify Sov unit types on the field as well as lines of approach and retreat. Some visual tells in v1.6xx, (remember not seeing certain units is a tell too): Lack of CS or Conscripts indicates no crew weapons or AFVs can be deployed. coupled with seeing a sniper, Send in the ACs quickly, but ATGs are on the way, get MHT and Assault PGs on line. AT Squads mean no Snipers. NI means no Partizans. Etc. All of this data has an expiration date. Tells will cease to be important maybe 9 minutes or so into the game.

Using this Srategy and estimating the Sovs FP gain per minute can tell you when to anticipate the next potential arrival of a new unit type and perhaps where it will appear on the map. You have a window of opportunity to attack an inferior foe or prepare a new counter. I believe the design Rule of thumb for FP Gain used in vCOH is 25 FP/minute. Many Soviet upgrades cost 35 FP as do T70s and T90s IE 1m24s window of opportunity adjusted for your estimate of the enemies FP Gain. BTW: PE AC 25 FP, Wehr:  AC 35 FP, StuG 50 FP; but of course Sovs have no ACs. And Sniper Starts, Stormovie Starts and Conscript Starts are the current rage.

Now For Something Completely Different
 
Sov experts are talking of a Fast Vehicle Strat as being viable.

http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=7530.msg114119#msg114119

Frankly I don't see it. Based on resource collection, (not build times); Supporting Data: A Sov Comp Stomp on Kalach yielded 2490 MP, 101 muni, 180 FP in 5m48s or 25 FP/min avg gain and outposted 18 and 8 Fuel Points held,  4VP held by Soviets at the end of exercise.

Note: 25FP/min ratio occurs so frequently in the number crunching and generates whole number answers that it probably is equated to 1 minute  of elapsed game time in the DesignTeam's thinking process. IF this is true a player will have an advantage over the game system when above these numbers or multiples. Just conjecture on my part.

Soviet Fast Vehicle Strat FP requirements (Abwehr estimate) Sov T1/T3/Lt Tky/T4, 25FP/min gain:

    1 T70 @ 180 FP-5m48s
    2 T70 @ 215 FP-7m12s Add Sturmovy @240 FP-8m12s
    3 T70 @ 250 FP-8m36s Add Sturmovy @275 FP-9m36s
    2 SU76 @ 275 FP 9m36s Add Sturmovy @ 300 FP-10m36s
    There is a 25 FP penalty added to obtain Hvy Tky if a T2 upgrade has noy been completed. IE T34s will appear a minute later.


Axis Fast Vehicles @25 FP gain per min.

    Wehr T1/T3 yields 2 ACs @ 170 FP-5m48s.
    Wehr T3 yields 2AC @ 155FP-5m12s. or 2StuGs @185 FP-7m24s. (3v3 or more only)
    PE T2/T3 yields two ACs and 1 IHT @ 120 FP-3m48s.
    Pe T1/T4: yields 2 H35s @200FP-7m0s
    PE T1/T4: yields 1 PzIVd @230FP-8m12s, (290FP for 2-10m36s).
孫 The
EF_v1.7.10
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Illegitimi non Carborundum -"Vinegar" Joe Stilwell
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Offline GodlikeDennis

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Re: Soft Strategy for PE in EF v1.60
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2012, 10:14:14 AM »
The problem with your analysis about Soviet vehicle rushes is that it assumes even fuel output for both sides. In reality, Soviets will probably have a greater fuel income in most games owing to greater map control possibilities with ing, CS, cons X 4-5. Also, prop doctrine is most likely to be selected for NI which have a very fast cap rate as well. This can mean Soviet vehicles can come out relatively early considering how much stronger they are compared to vehicles of other factions.

Additionally, an early outpost is VERY viable in Soviet strategies, particularly going CS, con X 4, outpost, vehicles.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.

Offline Otto Halfhand

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Re: Soft Strategy for PE in EF v1.60
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2012, 04:19:42 PM »
Hi Dennis,
Your observations are always informative. Your criticisms are always welcome. The real problem with my analysis is my poor understanding of production times. I will re-run my analysis to optimize map control not fuel production. You'll note my strategy is aimed at the destruction of Soviet production not Sov armies. My personal goal as far as PE goes is to determine total elapsed game time for 2v2 and 3v3 play and optimize OB selection. MHTs are very useful but in bad ground, an urban setting for example 40 FP is too much to spend when 107mm mortars are to be dealt with.

But then we're not talking about my strategy, we're talking about Sov. Fast Vehicles. I think an early outpost is not just viable per se it is a requirement. I would guess you use a 2 Ingeneri start but the 15 MP reinforce cost is lower than conscripts at this stage of the game and a 4 rifle squad is a 4 rifle squad. Ingeneri and conscripts do use the same Moisin? Yes the Propaganda Doctrine is a natural choice for Fast Vehicles. 2CP, 360 resource pt, Squads with 5 SVT40s plus upgrades is more than a match for 2-GR43 PG squads at 305 resource points 55HPs and 35 reinforce cost. NI does cap at 1.0? NI and Guards do use the same SVT40?

Off topic: The proposed improved PTRD for NI is not going to devolve into the Offensive Vet PG picking up Wehr Shreks situation I hope. There are too many PRTDs laying around and I suspect they are mostly dropped by NI.


孫 The
EF_v1.7.10
子 Art
Illegitimi non Carborundum -"Vinegar" Joe Stilwell
兵 of
Sun Tzu says: In warfare one compels and is not compelled by others
法 War

Offline GodlikeDennis

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Re: Soft Strategy for PE in EF v1.60
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2012, 05:02:54 PM »
NI cap at 1.5 and use their own SVT type which is extremely similar (if not identical? not sure) to the M1 Garand of US riflemen.

I almost always only build 1 Ingenery squad. Any more is putting you behind the Wehr player in combat power, since you need more squads than him to come out on top. Eg. CS +2 cons against 2 Wehr T1 units. Ingenery are far weaker in combat than conscripts because of total squad health and the cost is fairly similar. The only difference is that the 2nd ingenery squad can help with your initial capping speed but I find the combat boost from getting the conscripts sooner of much more benefit.
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Offline Otto Halfhand

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Re: Soft Strategy for PE in EF v1.60
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2012, 11:32:02 PM »
I see it.
35FP/min gain: T70, T90, T2upgrades, AT experts
40FP/min gain: Hvy Tky,T34,Shock Gds, Men vs Tanks
The Red Tide Rising at a constant rate. Very elegant. Thanks Dennis.

Your initial build Ing/CS/4-5cons make good sense. I have certain microing limitations that limit me to a 4 Squad M&F blob as a practical matter. I find the physical size of 7man squads a headache with suppression when 2MGS can provide overlapping fields of fire. I like A 2Ing start because the 2nd Ing can facilitate the early outpost and provide defencing to channelize enemy approaches as well as cap. On a map dependent basis I frequently get a Cons out before CS. Correct me If I wrong but the faster buld time and higher capping speed of Cons gives a tiny edge. And I prefer to have a screening unit for my CS.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 01:43:29 AM by Otto 213 »
孫 The
EF_v1.7.10
子 Art
Illegitimi non Carborundum -"Vinegar" Joe Stilwell
兵 of
Sun Tzu says: In warfare one compels and is not compelled by others
法 War