Company of Heroes: Eastern Front

Author Topic: v1.6.1 Strats for the Breakthrough Command Tree.  (Read 2950 times)

Offline Otto Halfhand

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v1.6.1 Strats for the Breakthrough Command Tree.
« on: April 19, 2012, 03:24:46 AM »
I confess I was disappointed when the T34/85 Tankriders option was removed from the Breakthrough CT. Now I am at a loss on how to best make use of this fine doctrine. The mechanics are good at what they do but their supervisory ability is less helpful when you have to have high FP to take advantage of quick AFV production. You can use supervision for T2 THs or T1 infantry production but the "Red Tide" produces 3 Squads instantaneously for 200 muni. The charge ability is great, cheap too, considering it force marches your entire army at 1.25 speed. -Here the problem becomes the slow recharge rate. Tank riders is a bargain but it takes 5cp or 6CP to get, by which time the T34/76's usefulness is nearly passed in the game.

Therein lies the problem for me with the current state of Breakthrough. The other two Sov CTs offer instantaneous gratification. By the time Breakthrough comes into its own I don't really need it anymore. Offer me some Ideas to change my mind.
孫 The
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Illegitimi non Carborundum -"Vinegar" Joe Stilwell
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Sun Tzu says: In warfare one compels and is not compelled by others
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Offline Pac-Fish

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Re: v1.6.1 Strats for the Breakthrough Command Tree.
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2012, 03:30:39 AM »
What are you talking about Mechanics can't supervise anything but the TH (although I could be wrong). And Red Tide is in Propaganda doctrine. So you can't really compare the two.

And the T-34 can still be useful as a fast flanker. Have your IS-3 or ISU-152 spearhead with you T-34s flanking or supporting. Use the Guards as AI. And its a pretty good deal. IIRC its 750 mp for a tank and guard squad instantly. No fuel necessary.

Om Nom Nom Nom
"Panzer-Guppy ready for battle!"
"Ha Ha Ha! We have the ZEAL!"
"Grenadiers! Fall In!!"

Offline Otto Halfhand

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Re: v1.6.1 Strats for the Breakthrough Command Tree.
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2012, 04:33:11 AM »
Ah Cat! You don't Understand my Style of play. When I take the Sovs on the offensive. The barbed wire I so patiently laid with all my defencing. My Stormovies cut it or my Tanks overrun it. (Did you ever notice that Soviet tank traps are only one way barriers)? My Tank company of two KV85's advances on the Flank I choose. My 107mm' battery is supressing axis artillery. Stormovie support my tanks. 5 consripts squads flank the move on one side, a rcce platoon with 2 strelky and a sniper on the other flank. Shock Guards when I have them, move up in support. When available a KV2 is in support. Strafny, or NI along with THs man the defenses. My Fire base and maybe a three Katyusha battery are pounding the enemy base. Partizans are decapping the Axis Line of Communications.

And that is the point. My OB is a Juggernaut and I don't have the POP for T34/76s or Stalin Tanks. Either Propaganda or Urban Combat support this style of play during the end game, and it usually is the end game when my Army Front attacks. I just haven't been able to find a way to work Breakthrough into the mix in one point six.

I will verify the supervisory role for all Tech buildings soon. One way or t'other.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 04:49:28 AM by Otto Halfhand »
孫 The
EF_v1.7.10
子 Art
Illegitimi non Carborundum -"Vinegar" Joe Stilwell
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Sun Tzu says: In warfare one compels and is not compelled by others
法 War

Offline Pac-Fish

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Re: v1.6.1 Strats for the Breakthrough Command Tree.
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2012, 04:36:30 AM »
Honestly Im not really sure what you are saying :(. Maybe someone can clear up what you have said. No offense is meant ;)

Om Nom Nom Nom
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"Ha Ha Ha! We have the ZEAL!"
"Grenadiers! Fall In!!"

Offline Otto Halfhand

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Re: v1.6.1 Strats for the Breakthrough Command Tree.
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2012, 08:11:52 AM »
Ok Cat will try again from a different POV.

I am trying to figure out how to best use the Breakthrough CT in EFv1.6.1

You have gone on record as preferring Axis factions for play. I will try to demonstrate how All PE Ct's can be integrated into my playstyle. I am really trying to get Sov Breathrough  hints though. I think the Sovs CT is just as flexible as PEs, but I haven't figured it out.

I think I'll add some local color and Historical relevance this time!

SitRep: The lead elements of the 6th Guards Tank Army have set up base in the village of Borodino. You will form a Kampfgruppe from the 26th Pz and eliminate the enemy's presence.

Last of the fuel is coming up Herr Oberst. The Panthers will be here shortly. Bake at 11th Pz is sending over a pair of French-Letter openers with Nebels to try out.
"Ya the boys from Prague just fitted their Hetzers with night optics too".
Report from the Funk. They have secured the munitions sector, Kets have completed boobytrap operations and are returning to Base.
SigInt coming in sir. THe Falls have broken the Ivan's line of communications and ambushed a Red column.
Panthers reporting for duty. Oh look! Otto has a new SturmTiger."
Artillery Open Fire. Hummels to target the enemy's Base. Nebels and Mortars Walking barrage on their front lines. "Kampfgruppe Roll Out. Assault Grenadier Company support that Panther battle Group. Panthers approach the village from North of the Rollbahn. Roll over our barbed wire and crush everything in sight.
AC platoon right flank,
Light Panzer Platoon Left Flank. Keep those Nebels screaming. TankBusters mount up get those HTs moving.
 
Fessmann flank that ATG, ACs Charge that  fire base".
 
"Radio report coming in from 11th Pz ". "Gott in Himmel. Where did those T34's come from? We're getting hammered over here". "Call-in LWGF support Get an Airstrike going. Ulrich never lets us down."

"Look its raining"

"Cancel that last order. Carius move out. Load APCD. Get those Kets over there in support"
Panthers diverting to the flank. "Right.  ::) Fessmann AC raid on their base. Tank busters take out those MGs. The Enemy is weakening."

SC reporting enemy advance left flank. We can't hold them." "Right. Aldrich get a PG over there. Scorch that point. Call in sector artillery. Hummels keep hammering their base."

SC reporting enemy activity in secured munitions sector right flank. "Requesting FlakPanzer Support, THey'll never know what hit them. Falls report enemy taking up position overlooking Crossroads. Requesting mortar support.

Panthers report they have shattered the enemy's main line of defence. Assault grenadiers have them on the run.
"All units converge on enemy base."

"I love fighting in the Rain"
孫 The
EF_v1.7.10
子 Art
Illegitimi non Carborundum -"Vinegar" Joe Stilwell
兵 of
Sun Tzu says: In warfare one compels and is not compelled by others
法 War

Offline Pac-Fish

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Re: v1.6.1 Strats for the Breakthrough Command Tree.
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2012, 08:20:54 AM »
You have gone on record as preferring Axis factions for play.

This is not necessarily true. I am better at playing axis, I do not have preference of Axis over Allies. I honestly love having BAR rifles everywhere, its just I suck at just that, rifles + flanking XD. I'm okay with Brits but they are too crappy IMO. At least these days.

And this story seems interesting but Im not sure what the point of it is. Your problem is you're not sure how to use BT. IMO you should get it if your enemy has alot of armor. Or you need a quick emergency call in(although this isn't always advised :P). Or if you have alot of infantry and need some armor. Or if you are already armor heavy and would like to reinforce your armor superiority.

As for HOW to use it, I'd say yo seem to already know this. But I think you should get Tank Riders ASAP as they are good units that can shock the enemy.

Om Nom Nom Nom
"Panzer-Guppy ready for battle!"
"Ha Ha Ha! We have the ZEAL!"
"Grenadiers! Fall In!!"

Offline Otto Halfhand

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Re: v1.6.1 Strats for the Breakthrough Command Tree.
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2012, 01:45:25 PM »
... its just I suck at just that, rifles + flanking ... Your problem is you're not sure how to use BT. IMO you should get it if your enemy has alot of armor. Or you need a quick emergency call in(although this isn't always advised :P ). Or if you have alot of infantry and need some armor. Or if you are already armor heavy and would like to reinforce your armor superiority.

As for HOW to use it, I'd say yo seem to already know this. But I think you should get Tank Riders ASAP as they are good units that can shock the enemy.
  • [/l][/l]
My Flanking micro is very poor too.
   
  • Your suggestions for the use of Breakthrough CT are excellent.
  • In my experience Selection of CT should be made at 3-4 CPs. Excepting NI it takes 3-4 CP to get a "good" call-in.
  • Red Guard, before he went Chernobyl, discovered that after you have accumulated 2CP there is about a 20 sec time penalty per additional CP.
  • Mechanics argue for an even earlier selection of Breakthrough because given the FP  and Fast vehicles Strat I can have 2 T70s or a T70 and T90 on the field in the same amount of time as it takes for Sov players using other CTs to have only one on the field."Tank Riders" are certainly a bargain at the price, (getting a Guard/pps and T34 for 20 more MP than two NI, plus the  140? FP and 75 muni bonus is not a problem). With the exception of T90 and maybe snipers I Always Deploy in groups of 2, - micro again. By the time I have accumulated 6 CP total, (not calling in Mechanics early is silly); paid the 40 second time premium and waited for one Call-in recharge period T34's are mostly outclassed by available Axis AFVs. Not a problem if the T34/85 option were available. No use in crying over spilt milk though.
孫 The
EF_v1.7.10
子 Art
Illegitimi non Carborundum -"Vinegar" Joe Stilwell
兵 of
Sun Tzu says: In warfare one compels and is not compelled by others
法 War

Offline Pac-Fish

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Re: v1.6.1 Strats for the Breakthrough Command Tree.
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2012, 01:15:26 AM »

   
  • Red Guard, before he went Chernobyl, discovered that after you have accumulated 2CP there is about a 20 sec time penalty per additional CP.


This was literally proven on GR.org(as in they did dozens of test) Its not a "time penalty". It takes 60 pts to fill the first 2 CPs, 80 pts to get any CP after that. Thats why sometimes getting and early doctrine is beneficial but you lose the ability to counter act.

Om Nom Nom Nom
"Panzer-Guppy ready for battle!"
"Ha Ha Ha! We have the ZEAL!"
"Grenadiers! Fall In!!"

Offline Otto Halfhand

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Re: v1.6.1 Strats for the Breakthrough Command Tree.
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2012, 03:00:19 AM »
This was literally proven on GR.org(as in they did dozens of test) Its not a "time penalty". It takes 60 pts to fill the first 2 CPs, 80 pts to get any CP after that. Thats why sometimes getting and early doctrine is beneficial but you lose the ability to counter act.
Actually if you use your CPs above 2,3,4,etc but not at the "4.0" point you will be credited 20  points to your remaining CP level. you only seem to get 20 points though, not 20points /CP spent above 2,x. If you time it right you cango from 4.75CP -3 CP and end up with 2.08CP! I'VE tested itenough to verify that.
孫 The
EF_v1.7.10
子 Art
Illegitimi non Carborundum -"Vinegar" Joe Stilwell
兵 of
Sun Tzu says: In warfare one compels and is not compelled by others
法 War