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Eastern Front Replays / Playing Against The AI
« on: July 29, 2013, 12:49:08 AM »
Greeting And Salutations,
Ok, I am still looking to get something better than a second class citizenship granted for those who play against the AI. Apparently that is a pretty big request for some reason.
Maybe there needs to be a segregated section for the "lesser players", sort of like Aparthied in South Africa?
Anyway, I would like to start a discussion on strategies and tactics for playing against the AI. Why not? And for any other thoughts anyone might have on this subject, or any other angle even remotely related. How does that sound?
One advantage in playing the AI, that I like a lot, is the ability to use the PAUSE button. This enables the human player to look at the map, give a number of orders to his units (to be acted upon immediately by the "Player AI" when the PAUSE button is UNPAUSED.) The Enemy AI is constantly aware of ALL it's units on the map and ALL "contact" with ANY units of yours (and your allies.) This is a huge advantage. The computer AI gives orders instantly and with very present knowledge of the entire board (map) without having to click on anything....or take a peak at the minimap. So, using the PAUSE button BALANCES the game in regard to "Map Awareness", as well as instantaneous orders (according to battle conditions).
I am finding that if I give too many orders to my units (on PAUSE) that some of the orders are not carried out. Example: If more than 5 units are given orders on PAUSE, when UNPAUSED, only 5 are carried out. This is an approximation, I am not sure exactly what that number is. But it does seem to be consistent.
When using PAUSE....the element of the Human VS Human competition relative to HOT KEYS (rapid building, deployment, etc., for those who know all the tricks of the game) is eliminated. A "Newb" (or just an AI preferring player) can take his/her time and think about the map, and what is going on, what he/she is going to need to build, etc., and then set things in motion. This takes the element of fast use of keys, knowledge of the keyboard mechanics, etc., out of the equation. Let's face it, when humans are playing humans the one that has mastered such mechanics, including the quick jumping back and forth from map to map to give orders and see what is going on, to be aware of things beginning to take place, etc., (all of which take time to develop such a skill) has the advantage in the competition. Also, micro management of units has to come into the picture here, as the one having mastered micro is way ahead of the one needs a couple of seconds to drag, select, and right-click-slide cursor a unit into position with it facing the desired direction.
Some may like such a FRANTIC gaming method, but some may find it a real DRAG. I like another approach, not so frantic. The replay can be as frantic as it likes though.
Sure, I realize that is all part of "mastering the game", but when it comes down to such things making the difference between a person winning and losing, it is no longer a strategy and tactics oriented game. I mean, if speed and skill in just operating these elements of the game have so great an influence, it is the mechanics that need to be studied on an equal par with actual game strategy. Just an opinion. "But that is how the game works!!" Yes, but does it really need to work that way???
Well, some do not realize that there are people "out there" who really like the game, but are not so adept at "mechanical wizardry". They may be "newbs", or maybe they may be handicapped in some way, or maybe they just like a calculated and calm game (it's like playing CHESS.) Should these folks just be mocked, ridiculed, stomped? I know there are some in this community that are actually taking significant time to be mentors to beginners. That is quite admirable, actually. However, there are at the same time a great many that just could care less about anything but themselves and what they want the game to be, etc. So goes life. SE LA VIE....
So, this may be a wasted effort, I don't know at this point, but I think people might be encouraged to find their own niche, so to speak. Wherever the game works for them, in whatever method, or function (yeah, even if they like trainers....) they like. This is their STARTING POINT. They may develop the skills needed for Human VS Human play as they progress in familiarity with the complexities of that sort of competition. Maybe they won't want to. Whatever. It is up to them. The emphasis on Human VS Human competitions is a great LIMITING FACTOR in the furtherance of the popularity of this GREAT MOD. That is my humble opinion, even if it does not seem so humble at times.
Ok, here are some things I am finding about playing against the current AI.
1) AI strength seems to vary, and this appears to be MAP ORIENTED. Different maps give the AI more of an advantage due to the way it has been programmed. So, finding the right level of opposition may take several attempts to find your own BALANCE with the AI, to get a great game that you will really enjoy.
2) Playing with an EXPERT ALLY really helps. Playing with several makes it pretty easy, sometimes too easy. When you play AI enemies you can BALANCE this all yourself.
3) Now it is possible to play with a totally OSTHEER ARMY GROUP, all your AI allies can be OSTHEER. This was not possible with the BETA early on. It is a lot of fun seeing all those OSTHEER units zipping around pounding on the enemy.
4) Experimenting with various factions on the enemy AI side and plugging in values for their AI strength can really change the battle. Example: In a 3v3 game you can make an Expert AI Soviet faction, a Normal AI Brit, and an Easy U.S. AI and see how two Hard AI allies do against them, maybe PE, and WER....or two PEs, etc. If it is a big map the scout cars and kettengrads can really help cover territory and recap after loss of points.
5) All the elements of the game necessary to play against Human players can be learned by playing the AI. It is like basic training in some ways. When you want to get the feel for a H VS H game....then just quit using the PAUSE button.
6) It is possible to play a near perfect game with the use of the PAUSE button!! Playing the whole game without losing a unit. I have had a few games where I lost under 4 units. I know you can hide out with multiple EXPERT AI Allies doing all the work, but I am not talking about that. It is a challenge to try this with 1 v 1 games against the AI. It is a lot of fun too. The element of careful calculation is still a big plus in my mind. There is also the split-second timing that is possible using this method. Units can converge on the enemy as one unit, or withdraw, soft retreat, toss grenades and retreat, and with the replay it all happens like clockwork. Some of the best games I have ever seen have been recorded in this fashion. Just an opinion. They are really fun to watch too, and you can have whatever music you like playing. The replay cam can be down on the ground level or from any angle you like to catch what you know is about to happen. This would be a great method to screen capture the action and put it up on the net in video format. Not kidding. It turns out like a movie from one of the big Hollywood studios. Epic.
Ok, I have blabbered enough at this point. I will be really interested in what anyone might have to add to this thread. I KNOW lots of players really like competing with the AI. Some don't care for H v H competitions much at all. I can relate. There is no ego involved in such competitions. And the As-h--e factor is eliminated. I mean, a "CLUB" mentality where the best human players are glorified, almost idolized, is pretty sick (not in a good way).....One more ego factory the world needs not. If that is all this game is about then it should be chucked, as they say in jolly old .....England. Pride is not a virtue. Commercialism sucks wind.
YahVohl
Ok, I am still looking to get something better than a second class citizenship granted for those who play against the AI. Apparently that is a pretty big request for some reason.
Maybe there needs to be a segregated section for the "lesser players", sort of like Aparthied in South Africa?
Anyway, I would like to start a discussion on strategies and tactics for playing against the AI. Why not? And for any other thoughts anyone might have on this subject, or any other angle even remotely related. How does that sound?
One advantage in playing the AI, that I like a lot, is the ability to use the PAUSE button. This enables the human player to look at the map, give a number of orders to his units (to be acted upon immediately by the "Player AI" when the PAUSE button is UNPAUSED.) The Enemy AI is constantly aware of ALL it's units on the map and ALL "contact" with ANY units of yours (and your allies.) This is a huge advantage. The computer AI gives orders instantly and with very present knowledge of the entire board (map) without having to click on anything....or take a peak at the minimap.
So, using the PAUSE button BALANCES the game in regard to "Map Awareness", as well as instantaneous orders (according to battle conditions). I am finding that if I give too many orders to my units (on PAUSE) that some of the orders are not carried out. Example: If more than 5 units are given orders on PAUSE, when UNPAUSED, only 5 are carried out. This is an approximation, I am not sure exactly what that number is. But it does seem to be consistent.
When using PAUSE....the element of the Human VS Human competition relative to HOT KEYS (rapid building, deployment, etc., for those who know all the tricks of the game) is eliminated. A "Newb" (or just an AI preferring player) can take his/her time and think about the map, and what is going on, what he/she is going to need to build, etc., and then set things in motion. This takes the element of fast use of keys, knowledge of the keyboard mechanics, etc., out of the equation. Let's face it, when humans are playing humans the one that has mastered such mechanics, including the quick jumping back and forth from map to map to give orders and see what is going on, to be aware of things beginning to take place, etc., (all of which take time to develop such a skill) has the advantage in the competition. Also, micro management of units has to come into the picture here, as the one having mastered micro is way ahead of the one needs a couple of seconds to drag, select, and right-click-slide cursor a unit into position with it facing the desired direction.
Some may like such a FRANTIC gaming method, but some may find it a real DRAG. I like another approach, not so frantic. The replay can be as frantic as it likes though.
Sure, I realize that is all part of "mastering the game", but when it comes down to such things making the difference between a person winning and losing, it is no longer a strategy and tactics oriented game. I mean, if speed and skill in just operating these elements of the game have so great an influence, it is the mechanics that need to be studied on an equal par with actual game strategy. Just an opinion. "But that is how the game works!!" Yes, but does it really need to work that way???
Well, some do not realize that there are people "out there" who really like the game, but are not so adept at "mechanical wizardry". They may be "newbs", or maybe they may be handicapped in some way, or maybe they just like a calculated and calm game (it's like playing CHESS.) Should these folks just be mocked, ridiculed, stomped? I know there are some in this community that are actually taking significant time to be mentors to beginners. That is quite admirable, actually. However, there are at the same time a great many that just could care less about anything but themselves and what they want the game to be, etc. So goes life. SE LA VIE....
So, this may be a wasted effort, I don't know at this point, but I think people might be encouraged to find their own niche, so to speak. Wherever the game works for them, in whatever method, or function (yeah, even if they like trainers....) they like. This is their STARTING POINT. They may develop the skills needed for Human VS Human play as they progress in familiarity with the complexities of that sort of competition. Maybe they won't want to. Whatever. It is up to them. The emphasis on Human VS Human competitions is a great LIMITING FACTOR in the furtherance of the popularity of this GREAT MOD. That is my humble opinion, even if it does not seem so humble at times.
Ok, here are some things I am finding about playing against the current AI.
1) AI strength seems to vary, and this appears to be MAP ORIENTED. Different maps give the AI more of an advantage due to the way it has been programmed. So, finding the right level of opposition may take several attempts to find your own BALANCE with the AI, to get a great game that you will really enjoy.
2) Playing with an EXPERT ALLY really helps.
Playing with several makes it pretty easy, sometimes too easy. When you play AI enemies you can BALANCE this all yourself.3) Now it is possible to play with a totally OSTHEER ARMY GROUP, all your AI allies can be OSTHEER. This was not possible with the BETA early on. It is a lot of fun seeing all those OSTHEER units zipping around pounding on the enemy.
4) Experimenting with various factions on the enemy AI side and plugging in values for their AI strength can really change the battle. Example: In a 3v3 game you can make an Expert AI Soviet faction, a Normal AI Brit, and an Easy U.S. AI and see how two Hard AI allies do against them, maybe PE, and WER....or two PEs, etc. If it is a big map the scout cars and kettengrads can really help cover territory and recap after loss of points.
5) All the elements of the game necessary to play against Human players can be learned by playing the AI. It is like basic training in some ways. When you want to get the feel for a H VS H game....then just quit using the PAUSE button.
6) It is possible to play a near perfect game with the use of the PAUSE button!! Playing the whole game without losing a unit. I have had a few games where I lost under 4 units. I know you can hide out with multiple EXPERT AI Allies doing all the work, but I am not talking about that. It is a challenge to try this with 1 v 1 games against the AI. It is a lot of fun too. The element of careful calculation is still a big plus in my mind. There is also the split-second timing that is possible using this method. Units can converge on the enemy as one unit, or withdraw, soft retreat, toss grenades and retreat, and with the replay it all happens like clockwork. Some of the best games I have ever seen have been recorded in this fashion. Just an opinion. They are really fun to watch too, and you can have whatever music you like playing. The replay cam can be down on the ground level or from any angle you like to catch what you know is about to happen. This would be a great method to screen capture the action and put it up on the net in video format. Not kidding. It turns out like a movie from one of the big Hollywood studios. Epic.
Ok, I have blabbered enough at this point. I will be really interested in what anyone might have to add to this thread. I KNOW lots of players really like competing with the AI. Some don't care for H v H competitions much at all. I can relate. There is no ego involved in such competitions. And the As-h--e factor is eliminated. I mean, a "CLUB" mentality where the best human players are glorified, almost idolized, is pretty sick (not in a good way).....One more ego factory the world needs not. If that is all this game is about then it should be chucked, as they say in jolly old .....England. Pride is not a virtue. Commercialism sucks wind.
YahVohl
Everyone will be rooting for the human player...right?