Ostheer Technical Information

[TheVolskinator]

Many of the concepts and ideas that I've seen so far regard the Ostheer as a technologically inferior branch of the Wehrmacht; this flies in the face of what OKW (Ober-Kommand Wehrmacht) sent to the Eastern Front. The MG34, MP38, Panzerfausts (this is correct, however, they've been repeatedly suggested for a NERFing), and PzKpfw II have all shown up as examples. While they were imployed during the opening months of Operation Barborossa, the majority of OKW's outdated equipment was in fact sent to the Afrika Korps (a unit that is actually included as call-ins in my upcoming concept). The PzKpfw VI Tiger, and the PzKpfw V "Panther" were both developed especially for the Eastern Front. The Hetzer, Panzerjaeger IV, Konig Tiger, MP44, and many other advanced and technologically sound ideas were implimented for EF combat. My point within this whole ramble is that the Ostheer was NOT an under equipped unit (as a whole) for the majority of its time in combat. Only at the end of the war, after the debacle at Kursk, did the Ostheer lose the majortity of its worthwhile equipment. Is there a reason that the Ostheer has been rendered technically obsolete? I'm only asking that question (that was the idea of all of the above). I don't want a flame war, just an answer for the technical obsoletion of the Ostheer. If their equipmnt is terrible, how do they compete with the Russians, whos staple is mass produced, faulty, equipment? 

[2LTAndeh]

I can understand how you can get the impression that the Ostheer is a much lighter army compared to the Wehrmacht and inferior in tech compared to the PE. Its true that alot of concepts I've seen, including my own, implement things such as the Panzer II, its variants, the Panzer III and other light vehicles. The thing is light does not necessarily mean inferior and alot of it depends on how the lighter vehicles are implemented. In large part, most concepts place the lighter vehicles at or around T1 and T2, which when compared to the Russians, gives the Ostheer the advantage of having some lethal mobility in the early game in conjunction with some kind of anti-tank, air or artillery support depending which concept youre reading. Also most concepts do include heavy vehicles like the Tiger and Panther, just not in large numbers because they're either doctrine specific or have a cap on them. Another large thing youre forgetting is experience. Alot of emphasis has been placed on it because throughout the majority of the war against Russia, Germany's troops and tank commanders were much better trained or better experienced than Russia's due in large part to Stalin's purge of the army in the 30's. To the point, the Ostheer is generally considered a light and mechanized force with well trained infantry and considerable air or artillery support as well as some heavy armor in the mix or at least some kind of heavy anti-tank gun or panzerjaeger such as the Nashorn. In large part this is a fairly true picture of history, the Panzer III was used well up to the end of the war and the Panzer IV Ausf H made up the backbone of the Panzer Divisions after 43, not the Panther or the rarer Tiger I and even rarer King Tiger. I hope this clarifies things a bit, and by all means go through my concept to try to get an idea of it.

[TheVolskinator]

Yes, I do understand your answer. However, my point was not the mobility of the units, it was the age. The Panzer II was obsolete by the 3rd or so month of the war. The MG34, and the MP38 were also outdated and replaced. While this would lend the Ostheer more towards the Wehr (MG42, MP40), wouldnt the older weapons cut down the Ostheer's combat effectiveness? The PzIII is a vital part to the Ost, im not discounting that. And early AT, both in PaK and infantry held form, is very important. I've included that in MY concept. It's just the old status of the equipment being used, and the lack of an upgrade to COMPLETELY REPLACE that old tech with new and more destructive weaponry by mid/late game. However, I missed the fact that the Ostheer was full of artillery; I placed emphasis on actual controllable Luftwaffe units (Ju 87, Ju 88) and mobile heavy AT (FlaK 36/88 on cairrage and the insanely heavy PaK 40 75mm) in the place of arty. Thanks for the correcting there, Andeh.   

[Gerrit 'Lord Rommel' G.]

Just one point when u talk about equipment;
e.g. the Panzer II was used till 1945!
During Operation Zitadelle the PzDivs had a "high" number
of Panzer II at service. Most for recon or as commanding tank
or "light support tank".
In March 1945 the Wehrmacht had still 15 Panzer II left.
130 did service at the Ersatzheer ( Reserveheer ).
Other example:
The hand fire weapons like MP 38 and MG 34 were used till 1945, because german factories cant produce the number of weapons which were needed at the front.

So out of my view the equipment of the Ostheer is no question of age of the weapon system.
My favorite point is - and i repeat and repeat this point -
the symbolic value of an Ostheer unit or weapon.
I cant image an Ostheer without Panther or Tiger tank.
When u can, okay. I cant.

Perhaps this is point were u should discuss 
Typical symbols and things of the eastern front.
What makes this front different from other fronts?

[Ghost]

i think using panther/tiger/panzer IV is a must for the ostheer and that they have been used in WM or PE isn't a reason not to use them again. i think we want a representing OH rather than forcing something completely new, without using anything from WM or PE just for the reason of having everything new.
weapons/vehicles like panzer II & III, mg34, etc. are representing and in the end it's a point of balancing. e.g. in coh the sherman is way too strong but it has to be like this for balancing reasons. same can be done with e.g. panzer II to keep balance.

[Versedhorison]

People are suggesting these outdated types of equipment and vehicles because they are not in CoH and want to see them. They are also too afraid of the ostheer being too much like the whermacht faction.

[TheVolskinator]

I submit to your authority(ies).  I just didn't want to be countering an IS-2 rush with PzIIs..."WTH no damage? How's that possible??"  . I don't have an argument to the instant /almostflame, nor do I have a good idea to add to what's been said. So, nuff' said.