Raider 217's Ostheer Concept

[Venoxxis]

The Pak 36 is weak yes its simply to hold off early armour. Its ablity does allow it to efficiently pierce the armour of a T-34 at close-medium range but not an IS-2's which hopefully by the time it arrives you've already built a Marder II etc.

One of the few units i've got some doubts about a usage in your concept. I mean this pak is extremly weak.. a compareable weapon i mean pretty much the same is on the AT halftrack and its doing only 30 damage. Thats nothing at all. Even with a AP shell ability which would duplicate the penetration and maybe give some more damage this wouldnt be that usefull still.

Solutions are giving it a tread-breaking ability or some other kind of seriously damaging single shot.

But i would suggest some kind of AT-Guy with a big gun (Panzerbüchsen) for this anti-greyhound/stuart role. To make them usefull in lategame as well, suitable abilities like a tread-breaking ability fits perfect.


Generally speaking:
Early AT weapons do need a lot of mobility.

Just a suggestion

[wordsmith]

One of the few units i've got some doubts about a usage in your concept. I mean this pak is extremly weak.. a compareable weapon i mean pretty much the same is on the AT halftrack and its doing only 30 damage. Thats nothing at all. Even with a AP shell ability which would duplicate the penetration and maybe give some more damage this wouldnt be that usefull still.

Yes the Pak36 should be in Tier1 IMO, it's a pre-war weapon able to shoot only light armors (from front). But instead APCR ammo it could have Stielgranate41 ability (for Ammo cost) - shaped charge, and this should penetrate any armor.

[Raider217]

The Pak 36 already has the Stielgranate 41 abilty, Camoflauge abilty and I have also made mention in the concept that is is both more accurate and mobile than other anti tank guns such as the Pak 38 or 57mm because of its weight, size and for balance. Anti tank infantry can either be the Sturm grenadiers with panzershrecks or one of the Foreign reward units with anti tank rifles (Finnish or Hungarian), and if by panzerbushen you mean the Panzerbuschen 43 I would only consider it as a reward unit over the Pak 36 however I would then be copying you by doing that Venoxxis (instead of tread breaker I would probably put in an ability to rapid fire for a short time at the cost of munitions)

I do appreciate the suggestions

[Ghost]

another solution would be to make upgrades for the pak:
gobal upgrade to replace the pak 3,7 cm with a 5cm pak and maybe later on tier 4 with a 7,5cm pak

[Raider217]

Except you get the 7.5cm with the Fortress Deployment and the 5cm is already with Wehr so its not that original

[Venoxxis]

Okay well, the Stielgrante rulzes any kind of russian steel.
Its penetration is at close rage compareable to the gun of the Panther with AP rounds. Thats quite impressive..


But well yea, this PAK gotta be really highly mobile, your right about that. i dont know if that works with basic pak concepts as we know them from COH.
But having a pak which is just usefull with its special ability is the thing im thinking about atm.
Therefore i was thinking about a highly mobile and flexible AT-guy, besides of its orgniality.

But i like that idea of the Stielgrante by the way

[Raider217]

The pak 36 is only meant to stop early tanks and armoured cars past that it has limited usablity where you are forced to move up to more efficient anti tank wepaons such as the Marder II which has the 7.62cm or upgraded Pak 40 7.5cm gun. The Pak can still be used at the late stages with the Stielgranate and Camoflauge but that cost munitions

[cephalos]

As far I remember AT guns are extremly weak against infantry, and this Pak is rather weak against armour, so why don't you give it frag ammo upgrade- it will be weak against heavy armour, but it would be useful against infantry. I would suggest 2-3 shots during the ability - damage similiar to granate.

[guynumber7]

37mm HE had worse effects vs infantry then a hand grenade.

[Shadowmetroid]

I concur. That "granate" must have been a nightmare for tanks and infantry alike in both theaters.

[Raider217]

The point of Pak's are an anti vehicle/ tank weapon and thats what its abilities should reflect

[cephalos]

Yes, but in later game stages you have absolutely useless weapon. It should have some advantages, but as far I see there is only camouflage and "One strong shot -then die" ability. For instance Wehr PaK is quite powerful even against heavy armour, and you have one strong at gun and one so-so at gunt. So give it some advantage against other units types because it lacks of at firepower.

[Raider217]

Concept Edit's

1.
Pak 36 may now be upgraded to fire tungsten cored ammunition as its standard round improving damage and penetration (Will not penetrate front armour of a T-34 but you should set an up AT gun in front of a tank and if that does occur you may still use the Stielgranate 41 which will penetrate the frontal armour)

2.
Tungsten Upgrade for Pak 36 now added to Increased anti armour efforts upgrade in Engineers hall

[Paciat]

Yes, but in later game stages you have absolutely useless weapon. It should have some advantages, but as far I see there is only camouflage and "One strong shot -then die" ability. For instance Wehr PaK is quite powerful even against heavy armour, and you have one strong at gun and one so-so at gunt. So give it some advantage against other units types because it lacks of at firepower.

Like a treadbreaker? PE halftrack also has a PAK 3,7cm so its only fair to give this ability to this light AT gun.

[Raider217]

The Pak now starts being able to take on light armour/vehicle and Stielgranate for heavier tanks and can then be upgraded to be and effective ambush weapon with Tungsten rounds as standard effective on side and rear armour, Stilegranate 41 effective at close medium range against all armour and Camoflauge as well as being highly accurate and with good mobility its powerful enough if i add anything else it'll be OP