[1.3.0.2]The all powerfull Mosin

[cephalos]

"soviet infantry should not feel expensive/elite" ? so why every german unit is getting wiped out by those "non-elites"

Strelky cost 280mp, they have 7 rifles. and they are superior to grens, who cost 300mp and have 4 rifles.... I;ve always been bad in maths, but should they be either more expensive or squad should be smaller?

[IJoe]

"soviet infantry should not feel expensive/elite" ? so why every german unit is getting wiped out by those "non-elites"

That maybe (MAYBE) is due to the fact, that grens are a basic (and  all purpose) infantry unit, while strelky are absolutely exclusively anti-infantry.
Get those grens sturmgewehr 44 (and extended squads as well) and see those poor ppsh-rushers vanish in a matter of seconds (not mentioning basic ones, that are supposed to be met by anti-infantry half-trucks, not by 3-men unupgraded gren squads, if you're playing as PE).

[Paciat]

(they are supposed to have the damage 7 mosin)

What?
Not sure I understand. They have 7dmg Mosins now? That would mean 4 PTRD teams have the same anti infantry firepower as 1 Strelky squad. (12Mosinsx7dmg=7Mosinsx12dmg) Blobs like that should be easy to counter. Even with 10dmg constript Mosins (low medium and long acc) they would suck vs infantry.
...unless you want to counter 4 infantry squads with 1 "all purpose" gren unit.

[Dzierzan]

I have idea for Strelky. They could have 2 improvements for PPsh i.e. one improvement for 50 ammo gave them 4 PPsh and the second improvement also for 50 ammo gave 3 for them PPSh. This is like in Stormtropers. The same it could be for DP- 28.

To mosin nagats. Indeed they are strong but must be a bit better than M1 Grand or Kar 98, because how wrote Zerstörer up, stenkly have to some more chances to kill germans, because their health is very low like flies.

[Paciat]

I have idea for Strelky. They could have 2 improvements for PPsh i.e. one improvement for 50 ammo gave them 4 PPsh and the second improvement also for 50 ammo gave 3 for them PPSh. This is like in Stormtropers. The same it could be for DP- 28.

To mosin nagats. Indeed they are strong but must be a bit better than M1 Grand or Kar 98, because how wrote Zerstörer up, stenkly have to some more chances to kill germans, because their health is very low like flies.

The gren/storm double upgrade is so you can make a choice if you want them more efective vs infantry or tanks. Upgrading some men with short range weapons while leaving others with long range guns makes the whole squad less efective at everything.
Just look at partisants. They cant defeat a Volks squad (upgraded or not) no mather how much they would try.

[Chancellor]

Just look at partisans. They cant defeat a Volks squad (upgraded or not) no matter how much they would try.

You sure about that?  Last time I checked they can easily beat unupgraded volks and even grens.  Mp40 volks will only win if the partisans charge.

[Paciat]

Just look at partisans. They cant defeat a Volks squad (upgraded or not) no matter how much they would try.

You sure about that?  Last time I checked they can easily beat unupgraded volks and even grens.  Mp40 volks will only win if the partisans charge.

Unmicroed grens sure. But every volk carries some sandbags with him. A 5 man PPSH squad should be able to push any rifle squad out of cover.

[Chancellor]

Just look at partisans. They cant defeat a Volks squad (upgraded or not) no matter how much they would try.

You sure about that?  Last time I checked they can easily beat unupgraded volks and even grens.  Mp40 volks will only win if the partisans charge.

Unmicroed grens sure. But every volk carries some sandbags with him. A 5 man PPSH squad should be able to push any rifle squad out of cover.

I'm pretty sure even if the unupgraded volks / grens are sitting in green and the partisans have to charge to the green the partisans still win.

[GodlikeDennis]

I think that partisans would lose in charging green cover troops. However, they ARE very good troops against infantry. Partisans would never lose against volks I would think.

[Max 'DonXavi' von B.]

Partisans would never lose against volks I would think.

Except if the Volks are vetted to II or III and upgraded with MP40s or without the upgrade on long range

[GodlikeDennis]

Vet doesn't do much for volks. Obviously they would win with MP40s since those are death.

I was also just checking out some stats on Corsix. It seems strelky/TH mosins are actually slightly better against elite/heroic armour than most other weapons. Also, as an interesting sidenote, they're slightly better on the move than most, with only a 0.6 accuracy modifier instead of 0.5. For those that might be interested, Guard SVTs are actually really good on the move, with only a 0.7 moving modifier.

While the mosin does have slightly better long range accuracy it actually has worse mid/short range accuracy than the gren/storm k98 (which kind of nullifies the usefulness of the better moving accuracy).

[Chancellor]

Dennis can you check the values for the Soviet small arms against Pgren Soldier / Grenadier Elite / KCH Heroic armor?

Last time I checked the Western Allies small arms have a 25% penalty against Grenadier Elite and are going to have a 22% penalty against KCH Heroic in the coming patch.

[GodlikeDennis]

Yeah I already did. They have the same values against soldier armour but have 5% less of a damage loss against elite/heroic armour. So the modifiers are (with normal values in brackets):

Mosin_nagant/con_rifle/con_rifle2
                 Dmg            Acc
Soldier        0.6 (0.6)      1 (1)
Elite           0.8 (0.75)     0.75 (0.75)
Heroic        0.8 (0.75)     0.85 (0.85)

Interestingly, I found out that BARs have awful modifiers against PGs:

0.4 dmg and 0.75 acc vs soldier

Also, BARs and Thompsons do the same damage to infantry armour targets as elite armour targets, they have 0.75 dmg modifiers for both.

After some working, I also concluded that G43s suck.

[Chancellor]

Then perhaps its not the Mosin base damage that needs to be changed, but the damage penalties it should have against specific armor types.

[cephalos]

Yeah I already did. They have the same values against soldier armour but have 5% less of a damage loss against elite/heroic armour. So the modifiers are (with normal values in brackets):

Mosin_nagant/con_rifle/con_rifle2
                 Dmg            Acc
Soldier        0.6 (0.6)      1 (1)
Elite           0.8 (0.75)     0.75 (0.75)
Heroic        0.8 (0.75)     0.85 (0.85)

Interestingly, I found out that BARs have awful modifiers against PGs:

0.4 dmg and 0.75 acc vs soldier

Also, BARs and Thompsons do the same damage to infantry armour targets as elite armour targets, they have 0.75 dmg modifiers for both.

After some working, I also concluded that G43s suck.

right.... so what does it mean to EF gameplay