[1.3.1.0] The recent conscript fix

[Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.]

I don't fallow, what the CS has got to do with conscripts.

Simple: Command squad = british tommie squad for 350mp.
Conscripts = US riflemen in terms of strength. But way cheaper and in combo with command squad they dish out alot of damage and can cap large parts of the map quickly.

And that's why soviet tanks arrive too early: it's too easy for soviets to take major parts of the map early on.

[IJoe]

Conscripts = US riflemen? False - see my previous post, and there's more to it.
CS is just ONE squad.

If you reduce its size, it will become absolutely useless. Capping speed is moderate, but can be A BIT lower. The punch they deliver is justified by the fact, that THEY ARE JUST ONE SQUAD, they cost rathe much, and their built time is rather long.

All there is about conscripts, is their great penetration against ACs and AVs against PE, but otherwise those just tare soviets apart immediately. That's the way it used to be before the penetration buff.
Post Merge: April 24, 2011, 08:37:55 AMThat's not to mention, that soviets can't build anything at all, except ingenery, conscripts and ONE command squad at the start. No support, no light armor at all, unlike other factions.
Post Merge: April 24, 2011, 07:42:40 PMAs for your reference to early soviet armor, it's about tank rush, I guess, because in any other cases it never comes earlier than that of any other faction. Well, tank rush is risky, and counterable.
Besides, it has to do with the cost of opening new building option a lot more than with conscripts or the command squad.

[Zerstörer]

On closer review, conscripts will get a minor health nerf and remove that crazy suppression value

[IJoe]

On closer review, conscripts will get a minor health nerf and remove that crazy suppression value

Health reduction 
... and what is considered "minor"?

I donno, but I think the early game will just turn into a slaughter.   
Post Merge: April 24, 2011, 01:41:49 AMHow about just make them 6 men with 3 rifles?

[RedGuard]

Its interesting that 224 mp conscripts win against unvetted grenadiers which are t2 and cost 300mp.

Do you have a replay?

Post Merge: April 24, 2011, 09:26:17 PMIs this HP NERF dropping conscripts below 300HP? 

interesting to see how this plays out. Soviets need more support from the balance team seem like theres a recent love affair with german factions. 

[IJoe]

... Soviets need more support from the balance team seem like theres a recent love affair with german factions. 

I've had this feeling since ... forever.
Though it's just due to constant nerfs (Katiusha, sharpshooters, etc.), no matter how fair these might prove themselves later on.

[Zerstörer]

Is this HP NERF dropping conscripts below 300HP? 

interesting to see how this plays out. Soviets need more support from the balance team seem like theres a recent love affair with german factions. 

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried...wait till next patch...

The health nerf is only 2 pts per man

The point isn't to favour one faction over the other. The goal is to get them equal. Invariably its a trial and error but we're not going to make the soviets OP just because its our faction.
Overall given the choice where the desired balance isn't achieved, I'd rather have a slightly UP faction rather than an OP one

[RedGuard]

Is this HP NERF dropping conscripts below 300HP? 

interesting to see how this plays out. Soviets need more support from the balance team seem like theres a recent love affair with german factions. 

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried...wait till next patch...

The health nerf is only 2 pts per man

oh my god, yeah I spelled it out instead of abbreviating it because I AM SO EFFING RELIEVED

thank you for saving my life I almost had a coronary

[IJoe]

Is this HP NERF dropping conscripts below 300HP? 

interesting to see how this plays out. Soviets need more support from the balance team seem like theres a recent love affair with german factions. 

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried...wait till next patch...

The health nerf is only 2 pts per man

So it's 38x8=304, instead of 40x8=320?
OK, I feel that a stroke just passed me by.

[RedGuard]

I'd like to point out however, something I just realised. that this conscript nerf is a double nerf
even though its only a 16 HP reduction, It stacks heavily in favor of wehr who is having its early and mid game buffed very well. while nerfing soviet early game

Not only are the wehrmacht being buffed in the official and final vcoh patch. they're receiving MG42 price reductions, volksgrenadier reinforce price reductions, and cap speed increase for volks squads.

I hope this double nerf, essentially, will not under power the soviet faction. It has the potential to tip the scales very heavily, with the nerf factor now multiplying exponentially

[GodlikeDennis]

We can't balance the Soviets around the theoretical-at-this-point future patch. We have to balance for now and if something gets imbalanced, fix it again. We have no idea how substantial an effect the Wehr early buffs will be for the faction without seeing it ingame against Soviets.

[RedGuard]

We can't balance the Soviets around the theoretical-at-this-point future patch. We have to balance for now and if something gets imbalanced, fix it again. We have no idea how substantial an effect the Wehr early buffs will be for the faction without seeing it ingame against Soviets.

Well the wehr balance changes to vcoh arent theoretical, they're final. No more are being made, none will be removed. they're just fixing bugs now before the release

It's still a double nerf, I'm pointing out that i hope the balance team has the foresight and wisdom to understand the buffs that are already being given to wehr

There's still an uproar in the vcoh community about the big early-mid game buffs wehr is receiving

[GodlikeDennis]

I'll say it again, it's impossible to balance against future changes that can't be tested against Soviets as yet. People are in an uproar over several small things which have an extremely minor effect in actuality. The most substantial buff is the volk capping speed increase in skirmish phase. Their reinforcement cost and upfront cost of MG42s are small changes. Just like you yourself are angry over the series of nerfs Soviets are receiving even though they're only very slight at this point (except for major things like SS teams etc.).

[IJoe]

How's this conscript health reduction gonna show on penal troops? - They consist of 7 "conscripts" + the "Commissar". I don't think, it's such a good idea to reduce their health. In fact, this idea is simply of criminal nature, IMO.
So, if you want to reduce the health of the conscript squad in particular, you would have to create a separate epbs entry for that "conscript_with_reduced_health". Otherwise this "fix" will hurt two squads at once, and there never seemed to be any problem with shtrafnye troops.
This is what I call "crawling nerf"

[Blackbishop]

How's this conscript health reduction gonna show on penal troops? - They consist of 7 "conscripts" + the "Commissar". I don't think, it's such a good idea to reduce their health. In fact, this idea is simply of criminal nature, IMO.
So, if you want to reduce the health of the conscript squad in particular, you would have to create a separate epbs entry for that "conscript_with_reduced_health". Otherwise this "fix" will hurt two squads at once, and there never seemed to be any problem with shtrafnye troops.
This is what I call "crawling nerf"

Conscripts and Shtrafnie already use two different types of conscripts IIRC.